Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[transam]

History Channel has several documentaries (had one today on the pre concentration camp) Nazi solution in the Ukraine. They even presented some German film and photos which were made before Himmler banned cameras.

Seen that stuff. Tell me, did you feel real anger, wanted to be alone to think ?. I did.

That's how I felt after seeing a documentary about what the British settlers did to the aborigines in Tasmania. Sickening stuff.

Yep, so let's not GLORIFY any atrocity eh. School kids should parade happy stuff. Wouldn't you agree ?

[slapout]

Tell the little munchkins, next year do a parade of clowns, hang a politicians name on a placard for each participant and see if they can overcome the bad rap they are getting.

transam; I have had access to several books, written reports, etc of Nazi, Russian, Japanese atrocities during the 30's and 40's and I think the written material, photos included, were more sobering to me individually. I would propose that The documentaries of this nature should be a part of every officers training, just as horrific traffic accidents are a part of driver education. Might not hurt for all heads of state for all countries represented in the UN also have to set thru a few hours. As the man says " just so we never forget what humans are capable of"

[kerryk]

How come this gets 56 pages, when it's just a bunch of kids dressing up

You're right when I hear of these kind of arguments in the future I will know pretty much automatically assume that it's being massively over exaggerated, especially after reading the Wiesenthal Center press release.

For some here it is easy to dismiss cos you were not affected, but EVERYONE should know what happened, every generation should know so it doesn't happen again. Some folk here, younger than me, couldn't give a shit about the hundreds and thousands of starved to death women and kids that had to be bulldozed into pit's, Nazi's are being glorifed here, instead of being left in books for the young to learn how easily shit can happen via a political party.

I'd get more worked up if people got outraged at ALL atrocities, but there have been a few in my lifetime, and no one gave/ gives a rat's ass about them. More to the point is the current ongoing one ( and I'm not going to say which one it is ), and it's no news at all. Lets not get selective about horror. It's all bad.

No disrespect to whatever atrocity it is you are trying to discuss but the thread is quite selective about this particular atrocity. It is about Thai children celebrating Nazis. If you have read the entire thread you have seen what happens when other people bring up different off topic atrocities. The posts are removed as being off topic because they are off topic. If you don't want to discuss Nazi atrocities why don't you start another thread to discuss how Thai children celebrate other atrocities.

[transam]

For some here it is easy to dismiss cos you were not affected, but EVERYONE should know what happened, every generation should know so it doesn't happen again. Some folk here, younger than me, couldn't give a shit about the hundreds and thousands of starved to death women and kids that had to be bulldozed into pit's, Nazi's are being glorifed here, instead of being left in books for the young to learn how easily shit can happen via a political party.

I'd get more worked up if people got outraged at ALL atrocities, but there have been a few in my lifetime, and no one gave/ gives a rat's ass about them. More to the point is the current ongoing one ( and I'm not going to say which one it is ), and it's no news at all. Lets not get selective about horror. It's all bad.

No disrespect to whatever atrocity it is you are trying to discuss but the thread is quite selective about this particular atrocity. It is about Thai children celebrating Nazis. If you have read the entire thread you have seen what happens when other people bring up different off topic atrocities. The posts are removed as being off topic because they are off topic. If you don't want to discuss Nazi atrocities why don't you start another thread to discuss how Thai children celebrate other atrocities.

+1

[mulryan]

Com-On PEOPLE - LETS NOT BE NAIVE - you really think that this has surpassed scholars and students alike for the true meaning of the Nazi emblems and the history behind them - that the students and faculty have researched and obtained enough knowledge to reproduce the costumes in detail without knowing the history and knowledge base behind them - No Way !!!

This is clearly their retracted sense of self in play - they know it is a persecution of western ideology and they are running with it. Its a rub it in your face approach and then when questioned thay have the idiot defense. Its totally racial - its totally defiant - its totally absurd - and its total on purpose. There is no lack of knowledge for this on the grander scale and if you truly belive this is the case then you have only succeeded in fooling yourself

Just wanted to second that.

[wileycoyote]

It will make me think twice,the next time ,I see a German motor-cycle helmet driver stopped at traffic lights !

[metisdead]

Discussion of Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage would be on topic to this thread while discussion of Nazi atrocities in Europe during WWII would be another topic altogether. Off topic posts removed.

[ajarnmark]

OH MY GOD! I posted on this not being in the curriculum 6 months ago. No one new what a swastika was when i queried people who had received multiple masters degrees from upstanding Thai universities. The swastika looks like a Chinese good luck emblem was what i got. When i explained the holocaust to them they had never heard of such a thing.

and u believe in all these things...

[FOODLOVER]

OH MY GOD! I posted on this not being in the curriculum 6 months ago. No one new what a swastika was when i queried people who had received multiple masters degrees from upstanding Thai universities. The swastika looks like a Chinese good luck emblem was what i got. When i explained the holocaust to them they had never heard of such a thing.

and u believe in all these things...

Is this a question?Do I believe that the University level education system here is garbage, yes I BELIEVE! Do I believe that you can purchase a masters degree, I BELIEVE! Have you not heard what the Science minister has been up to lately with the boats. Or are you stating that you do not believe in what the Nazis did? If that is the case I do not have time for your stupidity and hope your roof leaks and i fart in your general direction. )0( If that is not the case, have a nice day

[sbk]

I find that rather surprising, I asked my Thai husband if he studied Hitler in school and he said yes, when I asked what did he do he said, he was a german who killed millions of people, so I asked how old he was when he studied this in school and he said about 12 he thought.

I could ask a much broader range of people than just one but given that the Thai curricula is set in stone from the central government, I am assuming if he learned it in school at the time so did a millions other.

[FOODLOVER]

I find that rather surprising, I asked my Thai husband if he studied Hitler in school and he said yes, when I asked what did he do he said, he was a german who killed millions of people, so I asked how old he was when he studied this in school and he said about 12 he thought.

I could ask a much broader range of people than just one but given that the Thai curricula is set in stone from the central government, I am assuming if he learned it in school at the time so did a millions other.

What was the reaction to a swastika?

[Loaded]

I find that rather surprising, I asked my Thai husband if he studied Hitler in school and he said yes, when I asked what did he do he said, he was a german who killed millions of people, so I asked how old he was when he studied this in school and he said about 12 he thought.

I could ask a much broader range of people than just one but given that the Thai curricula is set in stone from the central government, I am assuming if he learned it in school at the time so did a millions other.

The curriculum is set in stone but interpreted freely by each school. Also the 2nd world war is presented from a perspective in the West. It's not objective. In Thailand the events presented to students of the second world war include atrocities from both sides. The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps. However, in the West we are taught that there was a moral justification for them. Thais are taught both sides in the 2nd world war did bad things. Only Christian countries have committed such large scale killings of civilians. In addition, the extermination camps and the allied bombing of civilian populations form only a small part of the events of the 2nd world war.

[nurofiend]

jesus, this thread still going???

can we just leave it at Nazi = Bad

and put it to bed

[Jingthing]

The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps. However, in the West we are taught that there was a moral justification for them.

I'm going to call foul on that one. Let's compare the mass urban bombings vs. the death camps. America and England had a long conflict over this. England wanted to go there much earlier than America. Americans thought they were better than that. But when push came to shove, FDR caved because they became convinced there was no choice to win the war, which considering the enemy, the Nazis, was a greater good. It was seen as a method of totally destroying the morale of the German population.

So yes we are taught a moral justification because there IS a moral justification for that, no matter how grim it was, and it was. I am not arguing that it WAS the only choice to win the war (it may have been, just not sure), only that the allied leaders THOUGHT it was, and it was rationalized.

So what is the moral justification for deliberate GENOCIDE of Jews, Gypsies, etc.?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[Loaded]

The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps. However, in the West we are taught that there was a moral justification for them.

I'm going to call foul on that one. Let's compare the mass urban bombings vs. the death camps. America and England had a long conflict over this. England wanted to go there much earlier than America. Americans thought they were better than that. But when push came to shove, FDR caved because they became convinced there was no choice to win the war, which considering the enemy, the Nazis, was a greater good. It was seen as a method of totally destroying the morale of the German population.

So yes we are taught a moral justification because there IS a moral justification for that, no matter how grim it was, and it was. I am not arguing that it WAS the only choice to win the war (it may have been, just not sure), only that the allied leaders THOUGHT it was, and it was rationalized.

So what is the moral justification for deliberate GENOCIDE of Jews, Gypsies, etc.?

The nazis had a moral justification for the extermination of Jews, gypsies, communists and homosexuals. They were perceived threats to their State and their German way of life at the time. I'm sure most Germans at this time wouldn't have questioned the morality of the nazis solution. They were brain washed. In much the same way allied populations were brain washed to believe at that time the only good German was a dead one and Joe Stalin and the Soviets were good guys. Of course, when political manipulation was needed to convince populations to buy the Cold War, this 'view' reversed itself overnight pretty much.

There were plenty of alternatives to dropping nuclear weapons on Japan. Japan is an island and at that time it had no navy, airforce, natural resources or economy. A blockade would have done the trick without the need to demonstrate to the world America's new weapon of mass destruction. America has military bases in over 100 different countries around the world. Nuclear weapons and military occupation were just part of their long-term plan for the USA post war. Can anyone say things have changed over the last 70 years?

Thailand doesn't necessarily buy the West's perspective in the 2nd World War.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Loaded

[GoonDizzy]

Speaking to a few Thais they know nothing about WW2. Only about the Thai/Burma wars.

One Thai told me that Thais watch a lot of movies. About WW2. They see it as fictional.

Hitler is Darth Vader and the SS are the Stormtroopers. That's basically how this can happen. History is not taught in schools here and geography is aslo ignored. I teach Prathom and I do 'sneak' in some geography stuff here and there where possible. When a 10 year old thinks London is in Asia...you need to do something about it. Imagine a Thai moving to the UK and saying in a bar 'I hope Spurs win today against Man Utd as I always support teams from Asia'. He would be labelled a total dumbass.

To be fair on the Hitler thing, my wife said (about 4 years ago) Thais think Hitler is far too evil to be a believable person. He must be a movie character. She then saw an episode of 'The World at War' which I have. Seeing old footage of piles of dead jews being bulldozered into pits shook her up. Show this doc in schools at P5/P6 level. That should sort it out for good.

[wana]

i know young twenty something thais and often been drinking beers down on the kao san rd and they have no prob wearing army boots and swastica pendants and t-shirts like its some kind of fashion icon

i even seen a fight starting over it one night when a couple of farangs had a problem with it outside the 7-11 beside kao san centre pub and the farangs

soon found themselves on the ground being kicked and stamped on by every thai man in the vicinity before being arrested and most probably fined all their holiday money

[folium]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

You need to break eggs to make an omelette. War is a nasty, brutal business, but the bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, etc had a clear military function. Namely bringing about the collapse of the Axis powers and an end to the war.

The capture of Okinawa in 1945 took 82 days and almost 250,000 deaths (military, civilian, all sides), all this for a scrap of Japan measuring 400 square miles. If an invasion of Japan would have been undertaken the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki (combined 200-250,00) would have been relatively minor by comparison.

Sorry but comparing this to the deliberate murder of 12 million in extermination/slave camps by the Nazis is utterly warped.

Thais are taught both sides in the 2nd world war did bad things. Only Christian countries have committed such large scale killings of civilians. In addition, the extermination camps and the allied bombing of civilian populations form only a small part of the events of the 2nd world war.

Not sure if you are describing what Thais are taught or your own ideas, but whichever way they are pretty scary beliefs.

Only Christian countries have committed mass murder of civilians??? Few sane people would overlook obviously non-Christian candidates as Pol Pot's Cambodia, Soviet Russia, Mao's China, Suharto's Indonesia, India at partition, Japan in China before and during WW2, and so on.

extermination camps and allied bombing only a small part of the war? Agree with the latter part of the comment. Air power was, and is still overrated in its strategic effect, and often tactically also. However the 12 million murdered in the camps are not some statistical insignificance and the concept of mass murder on such an industrial, systematic scale is exactly why such an event needs to be globally taught and understood for the horror that it was.

That's why silly students parading in CM in full Nazi regalia should have been prevented by their (at best) ignorant teachers, who knew exactly what was being planned (the social science teacher was active in assembling the posters, banners, uniform etc), and by a school management that aggressively ignored the concerns of a farang member of staff who had the nerve to point out that this Nazi parade was not a great idea for the school.

Edited October 14, 2011 by folium

[Nisa]

i know young twenty something thais and often been drinking beers down on the kao san rd and they have no prob wearing army boots and swastica pendants and t-shirts like its some kind of fashion icon

i even seen a fight starting over it one night when a couple of farangs had a problem with it outside the 7-11 beside kao san centre pub and the farangs

soon found themselves on the ground being kicked and stamped on by every thai man in the vicinity before being arrested and most probably fined all their holiday money

And the lesson learned ... Only foolish foreigners go to another country and tell strangers of that country how they should or should not dress in certain ways because of importance/beliefs associated with certain symbols in their part of their world.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Nisa

[kerryk]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

[cardholder]

i know young twenty something thais and often been drinking beers down on the kao san rd and they have no prob wearing army boots and swastica pendants and t-shirts like its some kind of fashion icon

i even seen a fight starting over it one night when a couple of farangs had a problem with it outside the 7-11 beside kao san centre pub and the farangs

soon found themselves on the ground being kicked and stamped on by every thai man in the vicinity before being arrested and most probably fined all their holiday money

... and you found that amusing ? :jerk:

[Nisa]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

The number of civilian deaths from bombings was far greater than those in the death camps. All sides carried out very awful policies during the war (as is often the case). Why make a big stink over who was more morally wrong? The fact is in some parts of Asia they just don't see the wearing of Nazi attire the same way we do in the west. It is generally not an endorsement of the policies of the Nazis during the war in these places as it generally would be if done in the west. While Thais need to be more informed of the offense such dress can cause to outsiders, it is just as true that outsiders need to understand their understanding of what certain dress or symbols means to them, doesn't mean the same to others. Nor does all the world view events of the past the same such as the rational and justification to use nuclear weapons to win a war.

If invoking Nazis or Hitler to make a point is so awful then somebody should let politicians know who often use Hitler comparisons to attack their opponents (including Obama) and bring up the Nazis to describe their opponents policies.

There is zero chance these kids were tying to promote Nazism but based on the poster, of what appears to be world leaders, it would seem they were trying to make some political comment. But we will never know the facts because it would not keep people inflamed and not 1 news source, that I have seen, has even tried to get to the bottom of what the kid's were trying to say. Of course, nobody really wants to know the truth because we all know it would be harmless ... unless some people actually believe this Catholic school is building an army of Thai Nazis.

[cardholder]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

The number of civilian deaths from bombings was far greater than those in the death camps. All sides carried out very awful policies during the war (as is often the case). Why make a big stink over who was more morally wrong? The fact is in some parts of Asia they just don't see the wearing of Nazi attire the same way we do in the west. It is generally not an endorsement of the policies of the Nazis during the war in these places as it generally would be if done in the west. While Thais need to be more informed of the offense such dress can cause to outsiders, it is just as true that outsiders need to understand their understanding of what certain dress or symbols means to them, doesn't mean the same to others. Nor does all the world view events of the past the same such as the rational and justification to use nuclear weapons to win a war.

If invoking Nazis or Hitler to make a point is so awful then somebody should let politicians know who often use Hitler comparisons to attack their opponents (including Obama) and bring up the Nazis to describe their opponents policies.

There is zero chance these kids were tying to promote Nazism but based on the poster, of what appears to be world leaders, it would seem they were trying to make some political comment. But we will never know the facts because it would not keep people inflamed and not 1 news source, that I have seen, has even tried to get to the bottom of what the kid's were trying to say. Of course, nobody really wants to know the truth because we all know it would be harmless ... unless some people actually believe this Catholic school is building an army of Thai Nazis.

So, Nisa. You found the parade acceptable ?

Yes or No

[StreetCowboy]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

The number of civilian deaths from bombings was far greater than those in the death camps. All sides carried out very awful policies during the war (as is often the case). Why make a big stink over who was more morally wrong? The fact is in some parts of Asia they just don't see the wearing of Nazi attire the same way we do in the west. It is generally not an endorsement of the policies of the Nazis during the war in these places as it generally would be if done in the west. While Thais need to be more informed of the offense such dress can cause to outsiders, it is just as true that outsiders need to understand their understanding of what certain dress or symbols means to them, doesn't mean the same to others. Nor does all the world view events of the past the same such as the rational and justification to use nuclear weapons to win a war.

If invoking Nazis or Hitler to make a point is so awful then somebody should let politicians know who often use Hitler comparisons to attack their opponents (including Obama) and bring up the Nazis to describe their opponents policies.

There is zero chance these kids were tying to promote Nazism but based on the poster, of what appears to be world leaders, it would seem they were trying to make some political comment. But we will never know the facts because it would not keep people inflamed and not 1 news source, that I have seen, has even tried to get to the bottom of what the kid's were trying to say. Of course, nobody really wants to know the truth because we all know it would be harmless ... unless some people actually believe this Catholic school is building an army of Thai Nazis.

So, Nisa. You found the parade acceptable ?

Yes or No

I have no objection to it, though my opinion is irrelevant in any case.

I am offended by cage-fighting, but I doubt I will get very far trying to get it banned.

I will speak out in favour of freedom of expression, though. You start off with banning portrayal of Nazi emblems, and where do you end with your constraints on freedom of expression?

I am sure you are also opposed to the Japanese prime ministers visiting their war shrines. And probably, to our Queen holding an honorary military rank. And would you oppose celebration of the memory of Transam's father, because some of his comrades-in-arms may be seen in a negative light in some countries? Unless you can point to a direct and specific hazard from someone's freedom of expression, then I suggest you think long and hard how big is the wedge of which you are driving the thin end

SC

[animatic]

Rolling over and appeasing a despotic force subjugating your citizenry,

is more morally corrupt that fighting off the invading force. One that made using equal or greater force, strategies and tactics to prevent mass cultural subjugations the ONLY option, and thus and morally demanded, not morally corrupt.

Ending the wars via deaths to stop significantly greater numbers of deaths, is one of those mind-bendingly hard choices world leaders are sometimes called on to make, and that generations later armchair quarterback and second guess, with from benefit of massive, sometimes biased or faulty, historical research, and little or no perspective of being there then, and needing to make choices with what you knew THEN.

Nazis and Japanese at that time attacked and subjugated brutally,

not just small groups of people, but hundreds of millions,

and to fight back, until something resembling free will for neighbor

nations was reached, is not even slightly comparable to the moral dysfunction

and arrogance that cause the Holocaust for more than just Jews,

but many groups who couldn't defend themselves alone.

No Attacks from the agressors and the 70 million deaths would have been avoided. They chose attack and must live with the historical legacy.

These defense arguments are so much revisionist smoke and mirrors.

Edited October 14, 2011 by animatic

[Jingthing]

Rolling over and appeasing a despotic force subjugating your citizenry,

is more morally corrupt that fighting off the invading force.

One that made using equal or greater force, strategies and tactics to prevent subjugation the ONLY option and thus and morally demanded, not morally corrupt.

Nazis and Japanese at that time attacked and subjugated brutally,

not just small groups of people, but hundreds of millions,

and to fight back, until something resembling free will for neighbor

nations was reached is not even slightly comparable to the moral dysfunction

and arrogance that cause the Holocaust for more than just Jews,

but many groups who couldn't defend themselves alone.

These defnse arguments are so much revisionist smoke and mirrors.

Exactly. This BS equating Nazism to the Allied tactics is just a sneaky disguise for tolerance (or more) for Nazism.

[Angel1993]

... and you found that amusing ? :jerk:

I find you're smiley amusing. Disgusting but amusing.

[folium]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

The number of civilian deaths from bombings was far greater than those in the death camps. All sides carried out very awful policies during the war (as is often the case). Why make a big stink over who was more morally wrong? The fact is in some parts of Asia they just don't see the wearing of Nazi attire the same way we do in the west. It is generally not an endorsement of the policies of the Nazis during the war in these places as it generally would be if done in the west. While Thais need to be more informed of the offense such dress can cause to outsiders, it is just as true that outsiders need to understand their understanding of what certain dress or symbols means to them, doesn't mean the same to others. Nor does all the world view events of the past the same such as the rational and justification to use nuclear weapons to win a war.

If invoking Nazis or Hitler to make a point is so awful then somebody should let politicians know who often use Hitler comparisons to attack their opponents (including Obama) and bring up the Nazis to describe their opponents policies.

There is zero chance these kids were tying to promote Nazism but based on the poster, of what appears to be world leaders, it would seem they were trying to make some political comment. But we will never know the facts because it would not keep people inflamed and not 1 news source, that I have seen, has even tried to get to the bottom of what the kid's were trying to say. Of course, nobody really wants to know the truth because we all know it would be harmless ... unless some people actually believe this Catholic school is building an army of Thai Nazis.

what complete and utter BS.

While still shocking, the highest possible number for civilian casualties from strategic bombing during WW2 comes well short of 2 million (0.5m Japanese, 0.5m German, 0.5m Soviet, 0.26m Chinese the principal casualties)

The Nazis murdered at least 12m people in the camps, some estimates put the total at 17 or even 20m. The possible death toll for Soviet citizens alone at the hands of the Nazis is estimated by some respected sources at 26m.

In terms of Sacred Heart in Chiang Mai, students the world over do dumb things through ignorance and the desire to shock/offend/show their independence. The real culprits are the teaching and managerial staff of the school who aided and abetted in this appalling lack of judgement.

It's not a question of freedom of expression, it's more a case of abject leadership and a complete failure in all that teaching and learning should be about.

Edited October 14, 2011 by folium

[philw]

i know young twenty something thais and often been drinking beers down on the kao san rd and they have no prob wearing army boots and swastica pendants and t-shirts like its some kind of fashion icon

i even seen a fight starting over it one night when a couple of farangs had a problem with it outside the 7-11 beside kao san centre pub and the farangs

soon found themselves on the ground being kicked and stamped on by every thai man in the vicinity before being arrested and most probably fined all their holiday money

And the lesson learned ... Only foolish foreigners go to another country and tell strangers of that country how they should or should not dress in certain ways because of importance/beliefs associated with certain symbols in their part of their world.

Nisa, at last I agree with you.

Well put.

[philw]

"The annihilation by indiscriminate bombing of large civilian populations in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is morally very little different to the horrors of extermination camps."

I can see the Thai education system being a bit backward and not covering history of the world basics but what sort of school system could have produced a student that would come up with the above reasoning.

I know of no country regardless of how twisted or retarded or evil that could have come up with the above quote.

I find it impossible to fathom the mentality of a nation that would allow the above quote to be taught in any school system.

Has anyone ever heard the quoted information in any school system on any level in any school in any country?

The number of civilian deaths from bombings was far greater than those in the death camps. All sides carried out very awful policies during the war (as is often the case). Why make a big stink over who was more morally wrong? The fact is in some parts of Asia they just don't see the wearing of Nazi attire the same way we do in the west. It is generally not an endorsement of the policies of the Nazis during the war in these places as it generally would be if done in the west. While Thais need to be more informed of the offense such dress can cause to outsiders, it is just as true that outsiders need to understand their understanding of what certain dress or symbols means to them, doesn't mean the same to others. Nor does all the world view events of the past the same such as the rational and justification to use nuclear weapons to win a war.

If invoking Nazis or Hitler to make a point is so awful then somebody should let politicians know who often use Hitler comparisons to attack their opponents (including Obama) and bring up the Nazis to describe their opponents policies.

There is zero chance these kids were tying to promote Nazism but based on the poster, of what appears to be world leaders, it would seem they were trying to make some political comment. But we will never know the facts because it would not keep people inflamed and not 1 news source, that I have seen, has even tried to get to the bottom of what the kid's were trying to say. Of course, nobody really wants to know the truth because we all know it would be harmless ... unless some people actually believe this Catholic school is building an army of Thai Nazis.

So, Nisa. You found the parade acceptable ?

Yes or No

Not to answer for Nisa but I do not think it ( the parade ) deserving of the overstated emotionalism that this thread has generated.

To answer your question, Yes, because that parade was lacking any Nazi intent and had no hidden agenda or point.

It was just stupid.

Try and get over it.

Not acceptable, just happened and , with luck the same silliness won't be repeated.

To transpose the actions of ill educated 14 year olds into the second world war is stretching it a bit.