Aid Group MSF Quits Thailand Over 'Govt Interference'

[whybother]

Thailand expels medics in role fight

PROVINCIAL officials in Thailand have forced the international medical aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) to quit the country after 36 years, leaving thousands of migrants without access to a doctor.

MSF's head of mission in Thailand, Denis Penoy, said 70 doctors, nurses and other staff treating about 55,000 mainly Burmese unregistered migrants were being withdrawn because of a dispute with officials that had dragged on for months.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz1a0drLcKa

Edited October 6, 2011 by whybother

[Chonburiram]

MSF= bunch of hypocrites

[whybother]

MSF= bunch of hypocrites

Why?

[Chonburiram]

In the beginning they were nice but now they are the same donation suckers like the red cross etc...

[BigFishEatLittleFish]

Serious question. Does anyone directing hostile comments my way on this subject even know what MSF did in Thailand or acknowledge the fact that MSF hasn't had much of a presence in Thailand for the past 18 months?

Reading this thread I tend to agree with GK on the specifics of this issue but it seems to me that Thailand is somewhat xenophobic. I've lived in countries like this before, and visited some (both Russia comes to mind, and Greece, both countries I'm very familiar with, having lived in them and visited them extensively). Basically these countries want you to visit--and then leave without doing much more than falling into tourist traps and spending your money. In the case of Russia, some NGOs were regulated and banned a few years ago. In the case of Greece, since the state religion is Orthodox Christian, various religious groups that proselytize were proscribed and regulated.

All of this in the name of national interest of course. Again, the business model the governments are promoting is simple: you are welcome, foreigner, to come here, spend your money, get drunk and act out various stereotypical roles assigned to tourists but when your tourist visa runs out, please leave (but come again next year, bring more friends, and spend more money).

It actually is very common world wide and throughout history. Back in the turn of the last century in the USA, Chinese and other Asians were not allowed to become citizens or to own property. That is clearly wrong but at the time the reverse was also true: Americans could not become citizens of Asian countries or to own property (if they wanted to) and had to typically live in ghettos and had special privileges and restrictions. The USA now has become anti-immigrant. All of this is a function of the worldwide recession too, as well as a reaction to the creative destruction unleashed by globalization.

Here in the Philippines where I am now, they have a similar structure to Thailand (foreigners must register every few months and cannot own property without a Philippine co-owner), but it seems to me--and maybe only because they speak English--that the Philippinos are slightly more friendly towards Americans like me than the Thais. Cost of living here is cheaper too, outside Manila, for anybody interested in relocating.

[baboon]

GK`s first post was correct in it`s analysis of this problem, in my opinion. Where was he licking his lips and relishing human suffering?

If Lopburi on the visa forum were to state in his usual dispassionate yet informative way that the rules and regulations meant that a long term visa was most likely out of the question for a poster to stay with his girlfriend, who would call him a disgusting human being for stating the facts as he sees them?

[tombkk]

Thailand expels medics in role fight

PROVINCIAL officials in Thailand have forced the international medical aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) to quit the country after 36 years, leaving thousands of migrants without access to a doctor.

MSF's head of mission in Thailand, Denis Penoy, said 70 doctors, nurses and other staff treating about 55,000 mainly Burmese unregistered migrants were being withdrawn because of a dispute with officials that had dragged on for months.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz1a0drLcKa

From what I read and see (BBC World had a report onTV today about this), MSF wasn't forced out of Thailand. They decided to quit. "The Age" got it wrong, I suppose. Kindly rate this paper on a scale of 1 to 10, from serious investigative journalism (1) to rainbow press (10).

It's MSF's decision, that's what I understand from most of the articles published (the above being the only exception). I am not convinced that this means people will now die, so I am not sure whether I should blame MSF for abandoning them if they did.

GK sounds to me like someone who knows this stuff, so I will not assign any blame. There are other NGOs in the market.

[JetsetBkk]

A kinder, gentler nation, it's not.

Sad news for a lot of needy people.

Very much so.

MSF do a lot of good work but it must be a nightmare dealing with Thai intransigence.

Sad, but understandable that they give up.

This is another example of a government --"for the poor people" well done Yingluck/staff.

Too funny. Your lot lost the election. Get over it.

[sfbandung]

"......... no dead bodies or starving kids flopping about.........."

What a charming turn of phrase! Your empathy underwhelms me completely.

That quote unfortunately undermines what I thought was an informed and measured comment by GK.

Some posters have failed to read the title of the OP - "Aid Group MSF Quits Thailand Over 'Govt Interference'". They "quit", they weren't thrown out. 'Government Interference'? MSF are a great organisation, but they can't complain about 'interference' in a sovereign state. They have a right to interfere.

Refugees are a huge problem the world over and quite often the receiving countries are abused for being "heartless" because they dare to try to exercise some control over who, how many, and why people are entering their country. Now I'll sound heartless no doubt but someone's hardship does not then usurp any country's right to have an immigration policy. Look at Australia. We are regarded as pariahs by many people because we insist that you follow the rules when you want to come to Australia. Thailand is far more transparent than many countries as far as access to these camps is concerned and many NGOs remain.

I live in Papua New Guinea and despite the excellent work done by many NGOs here they often insist that the work they are doing places them above the government's right to run its own country. The Bougainville crisis here was a case in point where many NGOs were actively fomenting dissent. Once again, I'm not suggesting this is the case with MSF, merely that the government does have a right to "interfere".

[whybother]

Thailand expels medics in role fight

PROVINCIAL officials in Thailand have forced the international medical aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) to quit the country after 36 years, leaving thousands of migrants without access to a doctor.

MSF's head of mission in Thailand, Denis Penoy, said 70 doctors, nurses and other staff treating about 55,000 mainly Burmese unregistered migrants were being withdrawn because of a dispute with officials that had dragged on for months.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz1a0drLcKa

From what I read and see (BBC World had a report onTV today about this), MSF wasn't forced out of Thailand. They decided to quit. "The Age" got it wrong, I suppose. Kindly rate this paper on a scale of 1 to 10, from serious investigative journalism (1) to rainbow press (10).

It's MSF's decision, that's what I understand from most of the articles published (the above being the only exception). I am not convinced that this means people will now die, so I am not sure whether I should blame MSF for abandoning them if they did.

GK sounds to me like someone who knows this stuff, so I will not assign any blame. There are other NGOs in the market.

Everything in the article says they quit. Someone just decided that "expels" sounded better in the headline.

[Felt 35]

Oh come on folks, we all know why MSF is pushed out, I mean pulling out! MSF medical teams often witness inhuman treatment and violence against refugees by the Governments in the countries they try to help. MSF speak public out about it and we all know that in Thailand the truth about treatment of refugees are seen best hidden for the International world.

[geriatrickid]

I am going to defend the MSF here despite my being somewhat rough with some of my comments. On the whole they do a good job and are as transparent as a large group can be. As was observed, they are straying a bit from their mission with the cadre of administrators and lobbyists. Of the 70 staff reported, I believe a large portion were not full assigned staff and that the staff were in large part not medical doctors delivering care. The services provided while valuable, were not critical care.

Thailand has a right to decide how services are delivered and managed to its population of illegal immigrants. Again I ask, would a western country allow an NGO to have carte blanche in their countries and to dictate public policy? Is Thailand's policy in respect to these immigrants flawed? Yes. Can it do better? Yes. However, that's isn't the issue here. Its one small NGO wanting preferential treatment. Care, USAID, Caritas etc. have have more comprehensive programs, treat and deliver service to a larger population and vigorously lobby for policy changes yet haven't clashed with the government like MSF.

In respect to my comment about images of suffering used for fund raising, I'm sorry but many NGOs use a picture of an emaciated child to get people's attentions. Stating that one built latrines to tackle GI related illnesses that kill more children than starvation is not as eye catching. A picture of a latrine is not as effective as showing the child, even though that latrine will save more lives than a bowl of gruel. I have the impression that there is a race on to post the most ghastly of images to facilitate fundraising. Have a look at some of the charities that do this. So what if the subject hasn't provided consent for the sharing of his/her image and so what if the image is unrelated to the actual geographic area, the image gets used if its eye catching. It's unethical and violates the patient's right to respect and dignity.. If I walked into a facility and started taking photos of kids in various death throes or with ghastly wounds, I'd face serious sanctions and quite rightly get a beating. Yet, somehow its ok for a charity to use such images as an attention grabber to raise money.

[ginjag]

A kinder, gentler nation, it's not.

Sad news for a lot of needy people.

Very much so.

MSF do a lot of good work but it must be a nightmare dealing with Thai intransigence.

Sad, but understandable that they give up.

This is another example of a government --"for the poor people" well done Yingluck/staff.

Too funny. Your lot lost the election. Get over it.

So funny, I didn't lose the election--YOU won it--and the best of luck you will need it Ha Ha.

[Crushdepth]

What a wonderful response above #5 from a bitter twisted poster G.K.

Indeed I do hope that G.K. never finds himself or herself in dire need of help and then there is no-one around. Poetic justice indeed if such a situation arose.

How is it bitter or twisted? If you disagree, state what you disagree with and refute the point. Do you disagree with me because I write that MSF has a legitimate position from its perspective, or that the Thais have a right to control what goes on within their borders?

MSF had more freedom to operate and to conduct its operations within Thailand than it does in any western nation. You don't see MSF bringing in foreign personnel to treat the gaping abscesses that are aboriginal settlements in Australia, or Canada do you? MSF is not allowed to do that with the refugees in Spain or Greece either. Do you know why? Because the local regulations and governments block them. Instead of trying to take a swipe at me, focus on the reasons why MSF and Thailand disagree.

Well you have one thing completely wrong. There is nothing stopping MSF from operating in aboriginal communities in Australia should they choose to do so. There is no way anyone would try to stop them. If they could improve things, everyone would be cheering them on.

[tombkk]

Thailand expels medics in role fight

PROVINCIAL officials in Thailand have forced the international medical aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) to quit the country after 36 years, leaving thousands of migrants without access to a doctor.

MSF's head of mission in Thailand, Denis Penoy, said 70 doctors, nurses and other staff treating about 55,000 mainly Burmese unregistered migrants were being withdrawn because of a dispute with officials that had dragged on for months.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz1a0drLcKa

From what I read and see (BBC World had a report onTV today about this), MSF wasn't forced out of Thailand. They decided to quit. "The Age" got it wrong, I suppose. Kindly rate this paper on a scale of 1 to 10, from serious investigative journalism (1) to rainbow press (10).

It's MSF's decision, that's what I understand from most of the articles published (the above being the only exception). I am not convinced that this means people will now die, so I am not sure whether I should blame MSF for abandoning them if they did.

GK sounds to me like someone who knows this stuff, so I will not assign any blame. There are other NGOs in the market.

Everything in the article says they quit. Someone just decided that "expels" sounded better in the headline.

Explain to me why this descrepancy you perceive is a good thing, and how - if you are right - this fits into the philosophy of "responsible journalism".

[kimamey]

Given the things that have happened to Rohingya and Hmong refugees here in recent years, I can quite understand why the government would be glad to see the back of MSF. One less nosey NGO, and a foreign one at that, the gov.t will be pleased.

Oh thats fine, another hard heart thats all we need, I have to ask you this, what do you recommend to help these desperate people ????????????????? NOSEY your very quick to make your point so be equally quick for a remedy now that the help has gone.

I think you may have taken this the wrong way. I think the poster means these sort of groups and NGOs make it difficult for governments to do as they please without being criticised.