Flooding In Bangkok?

[Gippy]

If anyone can give the required info I would be grateful. i live in a Mooban off Chaeng Wattana Road, very close to Tesco and Makro. Unfortunately, apart from two dogs and my helper the house is not occupied as I am in China.

Does anyone know if this area is vulnerable this time round, or does anyone have "eyes on" information

Many thanks

We live on Chaengwattana Soi 14, close to Tesco. No signs of panic or sandbags around here at the moment, the nearby canal still has a good meter or so of spare capacity.

[RedNIvar]

Rangsit, Don Muang, Navanakorn (high Risk), HiTech Park Ayutthaya as well. Water has reached the Asia Road.

Now preparing to move all our factory stuff above 1.50 meter. Location: Stiebel Eltron Bang Pa In.. lat=14.192708, lon=100.580177

In the same industrial park. Still safe, water still a meter away from the added barriers, but still sand bags being piled up.

[GarryP]

While cycling along Bangna Trat on Saturday and Onnut area on Sunday, I noticed that many of the canals were very close to full. Parts on Bangna Trat were under water on Sat. Yesterday, what suprised me was that while klong Prakanong was very full, it was flowing at a fair lick, which indicated that the water gates were open allowing flow into the river. Many of the smaller feeder canals I saw were actually below normal levels so it may be that they are draining them off while they can for back up when the runoff reaches the city.

I can see there being flooding in a number of areas but nothing like 1983. Back then they were running a ferry service from Prakanong bridge to Bangna. I had to wade through waist deep water in Pratunam just to get to work, etc.

What we are going to see are areas being sacrificed to keep central Bangkok dryish such as Ladkrabang, Minburi, Nongchok and parts of Nonthaburi on this side of the river. It won't be the first time.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I will be in Bangkok later this week. Will be staying either near Asoke or near Khao San.. Is there a flood-map (elevation map) of Bangkok that shows where the trouble spots are likely to be?

In the past weeks in Chiang Mai we've seen that such maps are of very limited use as local conditions make a big difference, but still it would be interesting to see.

Asoke seems safer than Khao San (have seen the area around there flood in the past, but not KSR itself)

[Soi Sauce]

Could Google Maps help?

Heard they are cool, but is it brand lies.

[Boater]

well , the acedemics had already foreseen a flooding was going to happen -

¶2. Bangkok lies in the Chao Praya River flood plain. After the

recent release of several assessment reports, there has been renewed

concern over severe flooding in Bangkok and surrounding rice farms

from a combination of sea level rise and human-induced land

subsidence. The Bangkok metropolitan area covers 7,761.50 square

km, with an approximate population of 11,971,000 and has been

pinpointed as a hotspot for a flooding disaster scenario by 2050 (as

well as other large Delta mega cities in Southeast Asia like Ho Chi

Minh City and Jakarta).

taken from Wikileaks - http://www.wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10BANGKOK454.html

[AmeriThai]

I've never seen the large drainage sewers empty into the river and have always assumed they are under the water. If that is the case then I can't see how they would back up regardless of the water level but if that is not the case then it could mean big problems.

Oh okay, I see what you're saying. My point was that it's not so much about the drainage sewers in BKK, athough they could get messy too, but rather that the khlongs can back up and street drains can be overwhelmed. If there's a lot more incoming flood water from the river, it can negate or block the normal flow of water in the khlongs causing them to back up. Underground drainage systems can also be a probem. Depending on how much water drains into the system, it can flow up through manholes, street drains, and even punch through cracks in the asphalt and concrete of the streets.

Probems of water coming up through the streets was visible in Chiang Mai, abeit in areas closer to the Ping River. Water supply at Ayutthaya had been shut off I assume for several reasons, one of which being the risk of contamination from the water supply. (See vids below for examples.)

Water coming from cracks in street at Chiang Mai (at about 3:25 min. on the vid)

Water shut off at this building in Ayutthaya.

[londonthai]

Water supply at Ayutthaya had been shut off I assume for several reasons, one of which being the risk of contamination from the water supply.

shutting off water is a mistake - when there is a pressure in the pipes the dirty water can't go in.

in ayuthaya there was probably power failure. Still, they should fix it and run asap, so people stranded at homes can get any water. Another possibility, that the water inlet was contaminated and they did not want pollute the pipes.

Water can be filtered through different materials and boiled on the gas stoves.

The rain water can be used as well for drinking and washing

Edited October 10, 2011 by londonthai

[gregb]

In the area around Rangsit University at least the trucks ran around today with the speakers advising everyone to prepare for imminent flooding and evacuate the area. That is about 5km - 6km inland from the river, so it would appear they are expecting this over a very wide area. They also plan on cutting electricity to the whole area as soon as the water arrives, which they expect to be Wednesday night or Thursday morning.

[AmeriThai]

shutting off water is a mistake - when there is a pressure in the pipes the dirty water can't go in.

in ayuthaya there was probably power failure. Still, they should fix it and run asap, so people stranded at homes can get any water. Another possibility, that the water inlet was contaminated and they did not want pollute the pipes.

Water can be filtered through different materials and boiled on the gas stoves.

The rain water can be used as well for drinking and washing

You could be right about some kind of power failure or contamination at a water supply inlet. It's also possible a line was somehow damaged or crushed by heavy equipment trying to build up berms of soil and rock. Electricity to the building was still working. There was no expanation as to why the water was shut off, other that that it was off. A couple of weeks or so ago, donations of botted water and packaged/canned food were being collected in Pattaya to be sent to Ayutthaya for distribution. I don't know what supplies are available, but I'd guess the local markets may be in short supply due to a rush of people stocking up.

[EvilDrSomkid]

All the khlongs and street drains are full in the Khu Bon Road area, near Ram Inthra km.8.

Got 30 sandbags today. If it pisses down hard for an hour or more, our yeak floods real easy.

Thing is, today was a nice sunny day and not seen a drop of rain yet. Let's hope it stays that way.

[User3]

General info for you.

The .pdf is from a few years ago, the quoted text below was relatively recent.

either way- Minburi looks less attractive than it did a few years ago.

-------------------------------------------

PRESS RELEASE:

SINKING BANGKOK: JOINT THAILAND-EUROPE RESEARCH REVEALS FAST SEA LEVEL RISE AND LAND DOWNFALL IN THAILAND.

Bagnkok: July 14, 2010: Mean sea level in the Gulf of Thailand is rising significantly faster than global average and the tectonic plate in this region has been found to be moving downward even faster since the happening of Sumatra-Andaman mega-earthquake in 2004. Using satellite microwave data and in-situ measurements, the collaborative Thailand-Europe GEO2TECDI project determines sea level rise rates in the Gulf of Thailand, plate motion velocity at various locations in Thailand and surface subsidence around Bangkok. After 18 months of intensive investigation a group of Thai and European researchers led by academics of Faculty of Engineering, Chulalongkorn University and Faculty of Aerospace Engineering, Delft University of Technology, reveals the alarming findings that could change all currently- adopted future scenarios of singking Bangkok

Sea level change is a primary indicator of climate change. While a globally-averaged rising of around 2mm/yr has been accepted by scientific community, it has long been a subject of debate whether actual mean sea level in the Gulf of Thailand is rising or falling as reported by some studies. This latest research employs satellite radar altimetry observations, GPS measurements and rigorous statistical processing to remove non-climatic signal from tide gauge data. The sea level change study group declares the issue is now resolved. Long-term rising rates since 1940 at around 3 and 4 mm/yr are clearly detected along the west and the north coast of the Gulf respectively. throughout the Gulf of Thailand, fast rising rates are also detected by satellite altimetry (1993-2008) with no evidence of sea level fall.

The plate downfall is revealed by extremely precise GPS measurements that have been conducted at certain locations in Thailand for more than a decade. GPS data depict slow and steady uplift before the 2004 Sumatra-Andaman mega-earthquake, after which the plate has been moving down at a rate currently estimated around 10 mm/yr. The seismic-induced phenomenon has been unaware and never been factored in any impact assessments so far. Neglecting the downfall would lead to significant underestimation of coastal impact from the apparent sea level rise, a total magnitude that is observable as the combined effect of actual rising of the sea and the downward motion of the land.

1

Another GEO2TECDI research team uses a special kind of satellite radar-image, known as Synthetic Aperture Radar or SAR, to evaluate the subsidence of top soil and sediment layer around Bangkok. Bangkok subsidence rates are well-known from multi-decadal ground surveying but data are available at only limited monitoring stations. When a subsidence rate is required at a particular location, only an approximation, not the actual value, could be obtained by the interpolating survey data from those monitoring points. The land subsidence study team uses Persisten Scatterer Interferometric SAR or PSInSAR, a highly-sophisticated technique to process a collection of 19 Radarsat-1 images spanning late-2005 to early-2010 period SAR images. The resulted points, at least a thousand times denser than those available from traditional ground survey, provides unprecedent detail of Bangkok subsidence pattern. East side of the Chao Phraya river mouth, north-east Bangkok and southern Pathumthani are found to be subsiding fast at rates greater than 15 mm/yr. Elsewhere in Bangkok the subsiding rates are 10 mm/yr or less.

The impact of sea level rise in the Gulf of Thailand is being amplified by land subsidence and plate downfall, making Bangkok and surrounding provinces extremely vulnerable to floods, coastal erosion, salt water intrusion and environmental degradation. As a foundation step before adaptation/mitigation strategies can be devised, all these dynamic processes require continuity of precise monitoring through which reliable projected magnitudes are available to coastal planners and policy makers. Further Thailand-Europe collaboration has been agreed on the application of space-geodetic techniques for this important task.

About GEO2TECDI: GEO2TECDI (Geodetic Earth Observation Technologies for Thailand: Environmental Change Detection and Investigation) is a collaborative project under Thailand-EC Cooperation Facility program (TEC) program funded by the EU Delegation to Thailand. The research teams are academics and technical staff of Chulalongkorn University, Delft University of Technology, ENS, Darmstadt University of Technology, Royal Thai Survey Department, Royal Naval Academy, Hydrographic Department, and GeoInformatic and Space Technolody Development Agency (GISTDA).

####

2

Vongvisessomjai, S. Will sea-level really fall in the Gulf of Thailand? Songklanakarin J. Sci. Technol., 2006, 28(2) : 227-248

Rate of sea-level changes due to climate changes vary according to latitudes: namely (i) in high and middle latitudes, successive glacial, interglacial and interstadial conditions occur with significant sea-level rises, and (ii) in low latitudes, successive humid and arid conditions occur with small sea-level rises or falls. Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) projection of future sea-level rise in the high and middle latitudes of 31, 66 and 110 centimeters in 100 years for low, middle and high scenarios respectively is wrongly accepted to be applicable to the Gulf of Thailand, which is in the low latitudes, where air and seawater temperatures are already high, and therefore, an insignificant increase of temperatures is found in several large cities. Analyses of 56 years data of tides recorded at Ko Lak, Prachuap Khirikhan province and Sattahip, Chonburi province revealed that sea levels are falling slowly, which is consistent with results of Gregory (1993) who reported sea-level falls in the low latitudes and the Gulf of Thailand of 0-50 milimeters, using U.K. Meteorological Offices Coupled Ocean-atmosphere General Circulation Model. In conclusion, the sea-level in the Gulf of Thailand is found preliminarily to be falling slightly or not changing, contradicting the belief that sea-level is rising in the Gulf of Thailand at the same rate as that in the high and middle latitudes. This should be investigated in more detail in the near future.

Key words : greenhouse, ocean-atmosphere, sea-level fall

1D.Eng. (Coastal Engineering), Prof., Water and Environment Expert, TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co. Ltd., 151 TEAM Building, Nuan Chan Road, Klong Kum, Bueng Kum, Bangkok 10230 Thailand. Corresponding e-mail: [email protected]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gound_subsidence_bangkok.PDF

[User3]

If anyone is interested, try this gov't site for weather related info. Year to date rainfall map is pretty interesting.

http://www.arcims.tmd.go.th/DailyDATA/

[Familyonthemove]

Our team in the office live in various areas of Bangkok, so their reports of flooding near their homes gives a limited picture. Last night we had flooding in Sanoi and Bangbuathong Market.

Sandbags were being given out in Samut Prakarn and Bang Na yesterday - 5 per household, not sure what good that will do?

I noticed that a 7-11 in Asoke area was building a sandbag wall last night - perhaps they have a experience of previous years?

There's a high tide due early Thursday morning, so that may be a test for the flood defences.

[HeavyDrinker]

If anyone can give the required info I would be grateful. i live in a Mooban off Chaeng Wattana Road, very close to Tesco and Makro. Unfortunately, apart from two dogs and my helper the house is not occupied as I am in China.

Does anyone know if this area is vulnerable this time round, or does anyone have "eyes on" information

Many thanks

We live on Chaengwattana Soi 14, close to Tesco. No signs of panic or sandbags around here at the moment, the nearby canal still has a good meter or so of spare capacity.

That's an area I know well. The Prachacheun Canal is infamous for flooding into MTT and the old Thai Airways estate so get your helper to shift your gear upstairs.

[HeavyDrinker]

While cycling along Bangna Trat on Saturday and Onnut area on Sunday, I noticed that many of the canals were very close to full. Parts on Bangna Trat were under water on Sat.

The Canals are as full as I've ever seen them and many of the factories and villages off them have been sandbagging away like crazy these past few days.

Yesterday when I took my walk virtually every factory had the workers hard at flood defences.

[IMA_FARANG]

At the present (Wednesday 13 October) there is no persistant flooding in most of Bangkok.

What has occured and may occur again is heavy thunderstorms that may drop a lot of rain in 30 minutes. Bangkok, inside the flood exclusion zone, is drained by a system pumps that take in water from the street flood drains and pump it through drainage tunnels to where it is pumped into klongs and the Chaopaya river (and it's various tributaries).

The problem is that during the short but intense thunderstorms the sheer amount of water falling all at once temporarily overloads the drainage pumps ... and the water backs up and pools in the lower areas of certain streets. That happened last week with that very intense storm late night and early morning. So people going to work saw "flood-water" and assumed Bangkok was getting flooded. Most of the water was gone by noon.

It could happen again if there is another storm like that one last week.

From the 13th until the 19th will be critical. That will be the period of higher twice daily tides coinciding with the nomal luner tide cycle. because of the higher luner tides then, water in the river will be draining off to the ocean slower. And it will be harder for the pumps to pump water from the stormdrains into the river because of the higher water.

So, if during a high luner tide period, and if a heavy intense thunderstorm occurs at that same time; some lower areas may be flooded again. just like last week.

On the other hand if one of the levees or barriers on he river actually breaches ... no pumps built could control that amount of water rushing in all at once.

I'm here on Ladprakhao road, about 40 to 50 centimeters higher than other parts of Ladprakhao Road. There is also about 1 foot of sandbags stacked outside my house.

Will that be enough? We'll just have to see.

P.S. Sukhumvit Road, between Soi 34 and Soi 38 used to flood years ago. Around the Rex hotel was where it usually was. I haven't heard of that since the pumps were installed in Bangkok.

Edited October 12, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[HeavyDrinker]

As an asides, it may be time to get those jabs topped up as well.

[Arkady]

At the present (Wednesday 13 October) there is no persistant flooding in most of Bangkok.

What has occured and may occur again is heavy thunderstorms that may drop a lot of rain in 30 minutes. Bangkok, inside the flood exclusion zone, is drained by a system pumps that take in water from the street flood drains and pump it through drainage tunnels to where it is pumped into klongs and the Chaopaya river (and it's various tributaries).

The problem is that during the short but intense thunderstorms the sheer amount of water falling all at once temporarily overloads the drainage pumps ... and the water backs up and pools in the lower areas of certain streets. That happened last week with that very intense storm late night and early morning. So people going to work saw "flood-water" and assumed Bangkok was getting flooded. Most of the water was gone by noon.

It could happen again if there is another storm like that one last week.

From the 13th until the 19th will be critical. That will be the period of higher twice daily tides coinciding with the nomal luner tide cycle. because of the higher luner tides then, water in the river will be draining off to the ocean slower. And it will be harder for the pumps to pump water from the stormdrains into the river because of the higher water.

So, if during a high luner tide period, and if a heavy intense thunderstorm occurs at that same time; some lower areas may be flooded again. just like last week.

On the other hand if one of the levees or barriers on he river actually breaches ... no pumps built could control that amount of water rushing in all at once.

I'm here on Ladprakhao road, about 40 to 50 centimeters higher than other parts of Ladprakhao Road. There is also about 1 foot of sandbags stacked outside my house.

Will that be enough? We'll just have to see.

P.S. Sukhumvit Road, between Soi 34 and Soi 38 used to flood years ago. Around the Rex hotel was where it usually was. I haven't heard of that since the pumps were installed in Bangkok.

I agree with you entirely and I believe the government is only willing at this point to warn people about the possibility of flash floods from rain storms, rather what must be a real risk that the flood walls will collapse. In many places they are just sandbags dumped in between flimsy wooden frames like the ones that collapsed in Nakorn Sawan. Since preparing for that eventuality would require a huge logistical operation, they naturally find it easier to prepare their excuses instead, i.e. this was a disaster than couldn't possibly have been predicted, while making sure they and their families are prepared for the worst case scenario imaginable. If they admit the possibility of a calamity before the event, they risk causing panic and being faulted for not doing enough to avert something they knew about.

Yes, I remember seeing Sukhumvit flooded all the way from around Thonglor to Ploenchit after heavy overnight rain soon after the first pumping stations were installed. I assumed it would hang around for a good long time, as it used to, but was amazed when it starting going down rapidly by late morning and was completely gone by evening.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Our team in the office live in various areas of Bangkok, so their reports of flooding near their homes gives a limited picture. Last night we had flooding in Sanoi and Bangbuathong Market.

Sandbags were being given out in Samut Prakarn and Bang Na yesterday - 5 per household, not sure what good that will do?

I noticed that a 7-11 in Asoke area was building a sandbag wall last night - perhaps they have a experience of previous years?

There's a high tide due early Thursday morning, so that may be a test for the flood defences.

They obviously have a sense of humour. All the residents can do with the 5 sandbags is pile them up and stand on them with household members sitting on each others' shoulders. They will probably just sell them instead.