Land "inheritance"

[JimGant]

Max,

The thread I highlighted referencing "marriage registration" was done intentionally, as there are several threads out there on this subject. This particular thread is a real back-and-forth discussion on pros and cons of registration, as well as other areas, such as translation of foreign marriage certificates. The bottom line: I'll need my marriage certificate only to apply for one year extensions of visa, based on marriage. A certified English language (or American or Ozie ) marriage certificate might be sufficient (per Dutch's comment on that thread), but I'll have it translated into Thai just the same. Registering with the Amphur is thus not required. As far as that would show my wife's "committment," well, 25 years of non-Amphur-registered marriage and gray hair is quite sufficient, thank you.

As regards the landlord gig, that's the reason I started this thread. Writing the Will to allow me, as Executor, to have several options is where I'm headed (I won't rehash, as this appears earlier in this thread). Besides, if the dollar keeps crashing, I might just sell here and buy that golf course property I dreamed of in Kauai, Hawaii.

[maxbkkguy]

Hi JimGant,

If you are comfortable with 25 years of non-Amphur-registered marriage, i think you already know what to expect from her. You should know her personality on the tip of your finger.

But we do have to admit that in Thailand, there are far many ‘bad cases’ that did happen to some farangs here.

Some thai guys did once tell me that "Thai law is drafted so to protect the thai only , never intended to protect the foreigner”. Be it the 30yrs leasehold thing or the recent promotion of Elite cards. All in all, foreigners have to bear the consequence if anything should happen unexpectedly.

We are always in the mercy of them.

Cheers!!

[parryhandy]

But we do have to admit that in Thailand, there are far many ‘bad cases’ that did happen to some farangs here.

Some thai guys did once tell me that "Thai law is drafted so to protect the thai only , never intended to protect the foreigner”. Be it the 30yrs leasehold thing or the recent promotion of Elite cards. All in all, foreigners have to bear the consequence if anything should happen unexpectedly.

We are always in the mercy of them.

Cheers!!

Id have to agree with that.Its ok trying to do things legally and officially but it could be a waste of time and money in my view if there is no proper enforcement of the law.As someone said on here in another post the smallest book in the world is the list of all foreigners that have won court cases here if by a miracle it gets that far.

I recently read a on another forum about a guy whos wife died prematurely rather sadly and now cannot get on the land and property he shared with her because the mother in law has claimed it.He complained to the local police who told him tough basically and if he caused any more trouble he would be deported and blacklisted.Heresay but worth mentioning.

Ok its worth trying to do things properly but i would forget trying to cover yourself and try to look after any children involved as much as possible .I think thats the best option until attitudes change here towards foreigners.Anybody buying property here should always have enough money to fall back in the worst case senario, to do otherwise is taking an awful risk in my view.

The first question id ask any lawyer is how, after trying to protect my life here and investment for the future, is the best way of being able to enforce this practically.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

On something this important, reliance on advice from an expat forum is fraught with danger. Lash out. Get a lawyer. Avoid that courtcase.

[maxbkkguy]

Ok its worth trying to do things properly but i would forget trying to cover yourself and try to look after any children involved as much as possible .I think thats the best option until attitudes change here towards foreigners.Anybody buying property here should always have enough money to fall back in the worst case senario, to do otherwise is taking an awful risk in my view.

Don't risks putting all eggs into 1 big basket.

[Kan Win]

Hi All,

Heads up everbody on this Fred:-

Found this:-

http://www.phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers...ails.asp?id=656

Pitfalls of land lease renewals

In a recent article (Gazette December 20, 2003) by William Pinsent titled ‘Options for Ownership’, he stated that “a well constructed leasehold is typically of 30 years’ duration with two 30-year renewals”.

This statement implies that the leaseholder can expect a trouble-free 90-year land/building lease. Under current Thai law, a land lease can be for a maximum of 30 years and each renewal must have a “new” registration at the local land office. Taxes must be paid for each “new” registration and the landowner must agree to the new lease.

When Mr Pinsent refers to a “well constructed lease”, I assume he means a legally binding private contract between the landowner and the lessee covering the subsequent lease regisrations.

However, if the landowner has no further financial incentive 30 years down the line, he could simply refuse to sign any new registration and automatically become owner of any buildings standing on the ground.

The lessee then has the legal right to take the landowner to court for breach of contract but the reality is that such civil actions can take years of expensive legal wrangling. The landowner would hold the legal high ground during this time and the lessee would have no rights at all as the registered land lease automatically terminates at the end of 30 years.

Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration.

Complex issues have been highlighted and buyers must be alert to all potential pitfalls.

Monday, January 12, 2004 Alex Malcolm , Patong.

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“Unscrupulous landlords, although not unknown, are fortunately few and far between. Sloppily-written leases are, however, rather more common. Many of the points raised in your letter are potential weaknesses in the default conditions prevailing in the existing Land Code regarding protection of long-term leasehold rights.

These potential pitfalls, including inheritance and renewal options, can be adequately addressed in a custom-drafted and registered lease including, for example, penalties for breach and conditions set for return of improvements.

The few aspects that cannot be dealt by these means can be covered in a private addendum enforceable under the Civil and Commercial Code.

It is crucial that all these conditions are clearly stated, recorded and registered, with the terms set in such a way that the landlord’s refusal to grant a renewal becomes such an unattractive path that even the most unscrupulous landlord will not find a breach viable. Cumbersome court procedures should thus never be your concern.

If you are paying good money for a long-term lease, it is a wise investment to pay for good legal advice at the outset – and only take on a property whose owner is willing to grant you all the protection that your lawyer advises you will need. ”

Monday, January 12, 2004 William Pinsent, Gazette property columnist.

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Kan Win:-

If this was posted before sorry for this post, if not, welcome.

[maxbkkguy]

Pitfalls of land lease renewals

In a recent article (Gazette December 20, 2003) by William Pinsent titled ‘Options for Ownership’, he stated that “a well constructed leasehold is typically of 30 years’ duration with two 30-year renewals”.

This statement implies that the leaseholder can expect a trouble-free 90-year land/building lease. Under current Thai law, a land lease can be for a maximum of 30 years and each renewal must have a “new” registration at the local land office. Taxes must be paid for each “new” registration and the landowner must agree to the new lease.

When Mr Pinsent refers to a “well constructed lease”, I assume he means a legally binding private contract between the landowner and the lessee covering the subsequent lease regisrations.

However, if the landowner has no further financial incentive 30 years down the line, he could simply refuse to sign any new registration and automatically become owner of any buildings standing on the ground.

The lessee then has the legal right to take the landowner to court for breach of contract but the reality is that such civil actions can take years of expensive legal wrangling. The landowner would hold the legal high ground during this time and the lessee would have no rights at all as the registered land lease automatically terminates at the end of 30 years.

Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration.

Complex issues have been highlighted and buyers must be alert to all potential pitfalls.

Hi Jim Gant,

Read this:

"Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration."

So i'm not wrong after all.

[camel_jockey]

I'm more confused than ever!Anyone now a lawyer?Has anyone dealt with Indo-siam? :blink:Jim, when you have your questions ready, any chance of posting them on here?

[JimGant]

"Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration."

So i'm not wrong after all.

Max,

You've got 'lessee' and 'lessor' mixed up. I'm the registered lessee, so if I die first, so much the better, as I won't have to worry about Thai law. My wife is the lessor, so only if she checks out first will there be some legal shenanigans to deal with.

[JimGant]

CJ,

My questions keep getting turned on their heads. I just keep waiting for a Thai lawyer with English language skills, and who also knows Latin, as in 'pro bono,' to jump in here any time. It will probably be a long wait.

[Kan Win]

"Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration."

So i'm not wrong after all.

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Max,

You've got 'lessee' and 'lessor' mixed up.

Jim,

I quoted this from :-

http://www.phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers...ails.asp?id=656

It was nothing to do with Max’s post. Max took it from my post:-

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Your readers should also be aware that in the event of the death of the registered lessee, the lease is immediately invalidated, given that there is a clause in “private” lease agreements that the inheritor must register a new lease with the landowner – who must be willing to cooperate – to ensure the smooth transition of lease registration

Complex issues have been highlighted and buyers must be alert to all potential pitfalls.

Monday, January 12, 2004 Alex Malcolm , Patong.

---------------------------------------------

Kan Win

Please contact the writer about your problems. Might help you a little bit.

Next time I will not post these things as it seems to upset you and confuse you even more .

Help yourself then...........................................

[Kan Win]

so only if she checks out first will there be some legal shenanigans to deal with.

Read my first post after yours on this Fred to get you another way out Jim Gant.

Which way do you want to go................................ ?

Hopefully U Kan Win.

Chok Dee Krap

[dr_Pat_Pong]

CJ,

My questions keep getting turned on their heads. I just keep waiting for a Thai lawyer with English language skills, and who also knows Latin, as in 'pro bono,' to jump in here any time. It will probably be a long wait.

Pro bono publico a latin term unknown to Thai lawyers Your optimism should be applauded.

[JimGant]

Next time I will not post these things as it seems to upset you and confuse you even more .

Uh, WTFO? Your first Phuket News reference was very informative, and helpful, as I pointed out to you in a followup post (please read). Your second Phuket news article was also helpful, as it points out that my wife/landlord/lessor might not renew our lease in 30 years, when we're both 89. In which case, I'll let the air out of her wheelchair and gum off her earlobes.

My response to Max was that he thought your Phuket article supported his earlier stated impression that a lease could be invalidated upon the death of the LESSOR/LANDOWNER/MY WIFE. But the article talks about invalidation upon death of the LESSEE. He got confused, as many do trying to remember the difference between 'lessor' and 'lessee.'

Anyway, I appreciate your articles on this subject. But if you feel they're confusing the issue, feel free to punt.

[Kan Win]

Hi Jim,

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“My response to Max was that he thought your Phuket article supported his earlier stated impression that a lease could be invalidated upon the death of the LESSOR/LANDOWNER/MY WIFE. But the article talks about invalidation upon death of the LESSEE. He got confused, as many do trying to remember the difference between 'lessor' and 'lessee.'

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Kan Win:-

Ahh sooo, sorry, me not think too good yesterday , opps I did it again.

Only trying, (sometimes very trying, (most of the time)) to help.

And you are very correct in your quote Jim Gant:-

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Anyway, I appreciate your articles on this subject.

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Kan Win:-

Thank you for your kind words.

Sorry for the punting, my way of life sometimes.

Hope you can find your answers.

Happy days.

P.S. I am in a similar boat as you are, but will take out my first option (posted) as Palaya has agreed to this without any questions asked.