Bangkok Should Have Escaped The Threat Of Being Flooded

[webfact]

Bangkok kept on edge

Chularat Saengpassa

Thasong Asvasena

The Nation

Bangkok should have escaped the threat of being flooded, as water travelling southwards has passed its peak while preventive measures are in place and dykes around the city and along the Chao Phraya River are intact, a senior Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) official said yesterday.

"We are quite sure that Bangkok can be saved from flooding, after monitoring tide reports last week with the Department of Royal Irrigation [RID], and finding out that the influx of water travelling through many Central provinces has passed its peak, and the water volume in the Chao Phraya is 4,000 cubic metres per second, far under a critical level," said Narong Jirasappakunakorn, director for the drainage information system division of the BMA's Department of Drainage and Sewerage.

"I can assure you of that. It's not worrying. I guarantee it," he added.

On Bangkok's west, Sala Thammasop Road will act as a barrier if dykes beyond it collapse, or are destroyed by disgruntled flood victims, while many canals can accommodate water from the Tha Chin River. "This is one example of a Plan B we have," he added. Meanwhile a primary mechanism, dubbed Plan A, such as continuing drainage and existing concrete or reinforced sandbag dykes, is intact.

In case Plan B is compromised, water can still be conveyed southwards to a royally initiated catchment area in Samut Sakhon's Mahachai area connecting southern Bangkok.

From the north, water travelling along the Chao Phraya River flows down Rangsit Canal in Pathum Thani, and in case of overflow, runs into nearby Prem Prachakorn canal, to be blocked by a major road that doubles as a barrier.

Water entering Bangkok from the east from Pa Sak Dam in Lop Buri flows down Hok Wa Canal, and if it overflows or watergates are destroyed, it will travel southwards along Romklao and King Kaew roads, which also double as barriers, preventing flooding of eastern Bangkok and Suvarnabhumi Airport. The highest Chao Phraya water level was 2.27 metres above sea level at the record volume of 5,500 cubic metres per second, back in 1995, when no walls had been built. The minimum height of the dykes along the Chao Phraya is 2.5 metres, while the maximum is 3 metres in areas facing higher risk.

"There will be no flash flooding in large waves of 60 centimetres high, because the water has passed its peak, as we have checked tide reports with the RID. The water volume at Pa Sak Dam has been stable for a week at about 1,050 units per second."

There is one risk factor, however, that could lead to flash flooding and high water levels - watergates or clay and sandbag barriers being destroyed by disgruntled residents, he said. But those facilities and important locations are being monitored and guarded. "In case of extreme circumstances, we must let the water flood some areas while preserving those that are more important."

Prime Minister Yingluck Shina-watra said she had instructed military and civilian agencies to strengthen several dykes in eastern Bangkok and dredge five major canals: Phra Ong Jao Chaiyanuchit, Jorrakhe Yai, Bang Chalong, Lat Krabang and Nong Ngoo Hao. These will help drain water from heavily flooded Ayutthaya and Nakhon Sawan more easily, while preventing water from combining with tides and flooding areas it passes, she said.

Work on this must be completed before October 15 Saturday, when peak seawater tides are expected.

The government's Flood Relief Operations Centre said a dyke was being built at the order of Yingluck, near Rangsit Canal 8, which links the Chulalongkorn 1 canals.

Later she flew to oversee bagging of 1.7 million sandbags for distribution to Bangkok residents, and then to observe an operation at Rangsit and Sam Wa canals in Samut Prakan, to make sure it was completed before Saturday.

-- The Nation 2011-10-12

[webfact]

-- The Nation 2011-10-12

[bkkjames]

I don't undertsand the title of this topic; should have? It has or it hasn't? It may?

[scorpio2369]

-- The Nation 2011-10-12

It Should....

But you never know....

[whybother]

"We are quite sure that Bangkok can be saved from flooding, after monitoring tide reports last week with the Department of Royal Irrigation [RID], and finding out that the influx of water travelling through many Central provinces has passed its peak, and the water volume in the Chao Phraya is 4,000 cubic metres per second, far under a critical level," said Narong Jirasappakunakorn, director for the drainage information system division of the BMA's Department of Drainage and Sewerage.

And just yesterday, Yingluck (with some posters agreeing with her) was saying how difficult it was to predict the water levels. It seems that they do have a couple of experts around that can do a few calculations.

[Thai at Heart]

As my old French teacher used to tell me, "If you aren't sure how to use the conditional verb form, don't use it".

Should'a, would'a, could'a.

So anyway, he isn't ascribing any blame, and is saying that Bangkok should avoid being flooded. Pretty brave man with that opinion, but it is little ray of sunshine of hope.

[scorpio2369]

This is by far the best report I've seen. I am really pleased that the river is flowing at 4,000 cu m/sec, last week the river was at 4,500 cu m/sec, there is a plan in place and a back up plan, the dam is stabilized and the tides will only be .2m higher the next week from this week. Don't forget when you are in 'war mode' you take in as much information as you can to become familiar with the current situation from the experts in charge and get the information out. I would probably say that the gentleman in the report, should be next to PM Yingluck in the flood center. I am also very happy that PM Yingluck has asked for other suggestions/input from more experienced people. That is a sign of a PM that will do good for the country and she is learning and understanding. I agree that the PM was late to react, but I feel that her technical adviser's failed to let her know the actual situation (or possibly her lack asking the proper questions to understand the severity due to her lack of experience). This will make the PM stronger, since she has experienced first hand what happens when you don't ask the right questions, have plans in place, projects to address the issues and react late. Since it has been accepted by many people as 'normal', I just hope PM Yingluck doesn't accept flooding as 'normal' and I hope she doesn't just want to 'survive' through the flooding.

my 2 cents for the day....

[jocsum]

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/wp201123_5day.html'>http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/wp201123_5day.html

Here comes another storm, Tropical Storm Banyan.

If the link does not work, it is http://www.wunderground.com/

then click on a city in Thailand. After it loads, there is a listing of tropical storms at the top. Edited October 12, 2011 by jocsum

[IMA_FARANG]

What they are trying to say...but politicians never answer a question clearly...in case later they are found to have been wrong and get blamed by the voters ... is this:

"We've done all we can think of to do, and we believe it will be enough. But, hey, we're not God (or maybe Buddha in their case) so we've got our fingers crossed and hope we are right. And if we are, you should be safe."

But if their not, or if it rains heavily in the next week, all bets are off.

That's about as definite a statement you will ever get from any politician anywhere in the world.

[whybother]

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/wp201123_5day.html'>http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/wp201123_5day.html

Here comes another storm, Tropical Storm Banyan.

If the link does not work, it is http://www.wunderground.com/

then click on a city in Thailand. After it loads, there is a listing of tropical storms at the top.

Or http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/ ... which shows a map of all the tropical storms/cyclones/hurricanes, and click on the storm your interested in to see its tracking.

[RickBradford]

I hope the Royal Irrigation Department is calling this one correctly -- if they're wrong, one of the first places to get swamped will be their own RID golf course in Pak Gret.....

[KKvampire]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

Edited October 12, 2011 by KKvampire

[zakk9]

I hope the Royal Irrigation Department is calling this one correctly -- if they're wrong, one of the first places to get swamped will be their own RID golf course in Pak Gret.....

No, we can't have that! The golf course flooded?!? There must be some farmers left that haven't been flooded yet

And next year, and the year after, and the year after that... and so on, Nakhon Sawan and Ayutthaya and the other central provinces will be flooded again, and the politicians can sing "Hallelujah, we saved Bangkok again and again and again". And those farmers can only thank themselves for not being smart enough to grow their rice at Siam Square. Shame on you, farmers

Come election time in a few years, they'll all get 500 Baht each to fix their houses of course, and all is well in Thailand

Edited October 12, 2011 by zakk9

[scorpio2369]

Here's something that everyone has control over......

TRASH

Be proactive and do your part....

See what happens when trash is involved

http://www.mythailandblog.com/2011/10/dramatic-pictures-at-sukhumwit-aquaduct-thaiflood/

[ETatBKK]

this is the most promising most lovely 'expert' I ever seemso far, very very optimistic ! he isjust gaming with the power of nature !

he even said "Ican assure you of that. It's not worrying. I guarantee it" !! well, he doesn't say 'what if not' though.

no wonder all thebeers in the supermarket are gone ! Ithink I need one in my breakfast and celebrate we are over-worried !

Edited October 12, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[scorecard]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

And the reason why they have no clue is very simple - ministers, permanent heads of ministries, and 99% of the people in the top layers all there because they have bought their positions or have received some payback for a favor, or simply because they have long-service.

Proven capability and proven superior past performance are not in the promotion or selection equation. Sincerity also lacking, and in many cases their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices, and at the same time their thoughts and actions associated with corruption.

Compare to Singapore where ministers are all highly capable people, capable of developing and developing clever policies which take Singapore forward fast and in the main with broad benefits for all.

The reality is that Thailand does have many very knowledgeable and highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement, for a very good and very simple reason - they don't want to be associated with the gangs of scaly ruthless thieves who currently have control of this wonderful country.

[webfact]

UPDATED 12 October: Maps of Flood Risk Areas in Bangkok: http://bit.ly/qlId0X

/via@RichardBarrow

[MaxYakov]

But, just in case, have you assembled your Flood Survival Kit yet?

[MaxYakov]

Here's something that everyone has control over......

TRASH

Be proactive and do your part....

See what happens when trash is involved

http://www.mythailan...duct-thaiflood/

He should come down to my area with his camera if he wants to see some really dramatic trash in an intake. One time the accumulation was so overwhelming that they had to burn it, creating a quite noxious bonfire. But it's not involved in emergency pumping ... yet.

Edited October 12, 2011 by MaxYakov

[ptrk64]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

And the reason why they have no clue is very simple - ministers, permanent heads of ministries, and 99% of the people in the top layers all there because they have bought their positions or have received some payback for a favor, or simply because they have long-service.

Proven capability and proven superior past performance are not in the promotion or selection equation. Sincerity also lacking, and in many cases their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices, and at the same time their thoughts and actions associated with corruption.

Compare to Singapore where ministers are all highly capable people, capable of developing and developing clever policies which take Singapore forward fast and in the main with broad benefits for all.

The reality is that Thailand does have many very knowledgeable and highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement, for a very good and very simple reason - they don't want to be associated with the gangs of scaly ruthless thieves who currently have control of this wonderful country.

Hmm, after living in Singapore for almost 10 years, no so sure that I agree. Only last year Orchard Rd. was temporary converted to a Orchard river for a few days As for corruption, it's just more well organized in Singapore if you scratch the surface a bit it's shines through

Cheers

[PaultheSeeker]

Snip: "The highest Chao Phraya water level was 2.27 metres above sea level at the record volume of 5,500 cubic metres per second, back in 1995, when no walls had been built. The minimum height of the dykes along the Chao Phraya is 2.5 metres, while the maximum is 3 metres in areas facing higher risk.

Is this really true? The tide tables show high tides of 2.6 meters over the next week. See them here: EasyTide Combine this with massive amounts of water from the north and the current rain we are experiencing and we may soon have a heck of a flood in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

I have been checking the river level at the seawalls around here (Phrapradaeng). Yesterday afternoon I noticed that the river current had not reversed for high tide when it should have. This may indicate the flood waters from the north are already here and are creating a stronger current than the opposing flood tide current.

The government must warn the public of the flood threat - not incite panic, of course, but tell the public to prepare. The sugar-coated statements from all these ministers is making me sick!

[Thai at Heart]

4.2 Measures of the Master Plan

The Master Plan is formulated with 2018 as the target year. In general, several measures

consisting of structural and nonstructural ones are considered to cope with the flooding

problems, as shown in Figure 4. Specific measures as follows are required to deal with the

above-said issues in the Chao Phraya river basin

Flood Prevention Master Plan from 1996

Quite an interesting read. Doesn't say anything about putting boats in the river though

[koosdeboer]

What about tropical depression Banyan?

http://www.tropicalstormrisk.com/

[Newguy70]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

+1

[webfact]

PM, Bangkok governor uncertain capital can be spared flooding

BANGKOK, Oct 12 – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Bangkok Governor Sukhumband Paribatra on Wednesday agreed that neither one can guarantee that all areas of the capital will be spared heavy flooding, even as the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) speedily drains water from canals to brace for expected further rainfall which could pose a serious threat to the already beleaguered capital.

While inspecting flooding in some parts of Thawi Wattana district, the governor said City Hall is speeding up draining the Thawi Wattana canal into Mahasawat canal after participants in a meeting chaired by the prime minister Tuesday agreed to empty the Thawi Wattana canal in readiness to receive flood waters from Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani provinces.

The BMA is cooperating with the navy and the army to raise the sandbag embankments along the two canals by 50 centimetres from the existing 2.75 metres.

Mr Sukhumbhand said the BMA is also draining water from Saen Saeb and Pravet canals through the Prakhanong drainage tunnel to the Chao Phraya River and into the sea to prepare for more rain Oct 16-18, to release water from the eastern zones and to safeguard inner Bangkok from flooding.

The BMA suspended the use of all boats in Saen Saeb canal today and tomorrow, Oct 12-13.

All areas in the capital are at risk of possible flood. No area is 100 per cent safe from flooding, the BMA cautioned, so Bangkok residents should not panic but be on alert. Not only northern run-off threatens Bangkok, but rainfall can also cause flooding. All agencies dealing with the flood emergency must closely monitor the water situation around the clock until the situation returns to normal.

The governor’s concern was echoed by the prime minister who said she did not know if whether Bangkok could escape flood due to uncontrolled factors. However, she said the government is doing its best to safeguard the capital.

She ordered flood prevention walls at three locations to be finished within two days to safeguard eastern Bangkok. Existing flood prevention walls can so far handle the water flow as the Meteorological Department reported no new storms. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-10-12

[OzMick]

Snip: "The highest Chao Phraya water level was 2.27 metres above sea level at the record volume of 5,500 cubic metres per second, back in 1995, when no walls had been built. The minimum height of the dykes along the Chao Phraya is 2.5 metres, while the maximum is 3 metres in areas facing higher risk.

Is this really true? The tide tables show high tides of 2.6 meters over the next week. See them here: EasyTide Combine this with massive amounts of water from the north and the current rain we are experiencing and we may soon have a heck of a flood in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

I have been checking the river level at the seawalls around here (Phrapradaeng). Yesterday afternoon I noticed that the river current had not reversed for high tide when it should have. This may indicate the flood waters from the north are already here and are creating a stronger current than the opposing flood tide current.

The government must warn the public of the flood threat - not incite panic, of course, but tell the public to prepare. The sugar-coated statements from all these ministers is making me sick!

River flow doesn't necessarily reverse for high tide. If the flow at the mouth slows, the river level will rise to high tide level.

[ianf]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

In Nakhon Sawan they anticipated this for some months and had contingency plans in hand. They also reinforced some river banks and so on thus minimising some of the possible outcomes. Whilst Ayutthya has seen considerable investment in industrial developments, its a tragedy that they didn't also plan in the same way as Nakhon Sawan.

[PaultheSeeker]

River flow doesn't necessarily reverse for high tide. If the flow at the mouth slows, the river level will rise to high tide level.

I already mentioned it didn't yesterday. And the flow is strong as ever at the mouth, I'm sure. That is why the current is not reversing.

[arrowsdawdle]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

And the reason why they have no clue is very simple - ministers, permanent heads of ministries, and 99% of the people in the top layers all there because they have bought their positions or have received some payback for a favor, or simply because they have long-service.

Proven capability and proven superior past performance are not in the promotion or selection equation. Sincerity also lacking, and in many cases their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices, and at the same time their thoughts and actions associated with corruption.

Compare to Singapore where ministers are all highly capable people, capable of developing and developing clever policies which take Singapore forward fast and in the main with broad benefits for all.

The reality is that Thailand does have many very knowledgeable and highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement, for a very good and very simple reason - they don't want to be associated with the gangs of scaly ruthless thieves who currently have control of this wonderful country.

So, what you are saying is that (in your words) these highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement for a very good and simple reason.... their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices,

[serenitynow]

As someone who has their home completey flooded up to 4 feet within 24 hours in Ayutthya, I am convinced the authorities in this country had and have no idea or plan to deal with the "glaringly obvious" fast rising water levels in recent weeks. If I was anyone in Bangkok, certainly near any water inlet or outlet area I would get out soon or certainly take measures to be "holed up" The fact is government , politicians or beauracrats are just posturing and looking concerned, They haven't a clue, as with so many issues in the country

And the reason why they have no clue is very simple - ministers, permanent heads of ministries, and 99% of the people in the top layers all there because they have bought their positions or have received some payback for a favor, or simply because they have long-service.

Proven capability and proven superior past performance are not in the promotion or selection equation. Sincerity also lacking, and in many cases their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices, and at the same time their thoughts and actions associated with corruption.

Compare to Singapore where ministers are all highly capable people, capable of developing and developing clever policies which take Singapore forward fast and in the main with broad benefits for all.

The reality is that Thailand does have many very knowledgeable and highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement, for a very good and very simple reason - they don't want to be associated with the gangs of scaly ruthless thieves who currently have control of this wonderful country.

So, what you are saying is that (in your words) these highly capable people who want to contribute, and sincere, honest, and want to see change, want to see a more civil society, but right now they steer clear of any involvement for a very good and simple reason.... their focus is on themselves rather than developing insightful polices and implementing such polices,

No, that's not it. They have no seat at the table.