Engine Problem Forces Qantas Jet Back To Bangkok

[webfact]

'Pulses of flames with a repeated bang': Sydney-bound Qantas flight turns back

Stephanie Gardiner

File photo: Boeing 747. Source: Wikipedia

A passenger on a Qantas flight forced to turn back to Bangkok airport with engine problems says he saw "pulses of flames" and heard repeated bangs.

David Grant was on QF2, which was on the Bangkok to Sydney leg of a trip from London, and said the Boeing 747 began to have engine trouble about 10 minutes after take-off.

"I can say that I saw that there were pulses of flames as the number 3 (inner starboard) engine vibrated forcefully in its housing, with a repeating bang that occurred a number of times," Mr Grant said in an email.

"After the engine had been shut down, a few white sparks could be seen flowing from the exhaust of the engine under the wing."

Mr Grant said the plane dumped fuel for less than an hour before it returned to Bangkok airport.

He praised the staff onboard, saying they kept passengers informed of what was going on and quickly provided everyone with accommodation.

"The staff were quick to react, extremely helpful and should be commended for their skills in comforting the passengers," Mr Grant said.

"There was as least one passenger near me that was visibly distressed and Qantas cabin crew did all they could to comfort her.

"Most of the passengers were relaxed as the captain kept us all well informed."

Mr Grant said the pilot and the second officer spoke to passengers as everyone got off the plane and many were praising their efforts.

A Qantas spokesman said the pilot turned off one of the four engines as a safety precaution and the plane, carrying 356 passengers, landed safely back at Bangkok airport at 10.47pm (AEDT).

No emergency landing was required and all passengers were being accommodated on other services, the spokesman said.

It comes as an estimated 60,000 Qantas passengers have been affected by a series of rolling strikes by engineers and ground crews.

The airline last week has cancelled 400 domestic flights over the next month, blaming the disruptions on engineers’ strikes.

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/pulses-of-flames-with-a-repeated-bang-sydneybound-qantas-flight-turns-back-20111017-1ls02.html

-- smh.com.au 2011-10-17

[emilyb]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

[OZEMADE]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

Now where did I leave that socket.

[111tingtong]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

[rakman]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

Engine maintenance for Qantas is done by Rolls Royce, the maker of the engines.

It does seem like they've had a "Series of Unfortunate Events"..

[Crushdepth]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

Their incidents get reported more widely than other airlines is the real reason. The media hate them, but the fact is they haven't had a fatal accident for 60 years or so.

[jackdawson]

Rolls Royce, the maker of the engines.

Well, that certainly explains everything.

When do they switch to Pratt & Whitney?

[chooka]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

Their incidents get reported more widely than other airlines is the real reason. The media hate them, but the fact is they haven't had a fatal accident for 60 years or so.

While Qantas has never had a fatal jet airliner accident, the Australian national airline suffered several losses in its early days before the widespread adoption of the jet engine in civilian aviation.^[1] These were mainly biplanes or flying boats servicing routes in Queensland and New Guinea.^[2] The incidents between 1942 and 1944 were during World War II, when Qantas Empire Airways operated on behalf of the military.^[3] While strictly speaking not an accident, the shooting-down of G-AEUH is included for completeness.

[seekingfriends]

hi guys. at the moment its a shit fight [ pardon the french }between qantas and the unions in australia. if its not he ground staff its the engineers on strike .qantas is trying to make big changes the way it dose business. and the ceo .is a irish guy called james joyce .who used to work for ryan air in europe .now if you know about ryan air. then i need say no more .and the unions hate this joyce . they call him bog irish . i am irish and i know what it means . .and the fact that he is on 5000000 aussie a year plus shares is not helping things. more info if you want it . james

[OzMick]

The most frequent question that I get from nervous passengers is "Do big airliners like this crash very often?"

"Usually, only once." seems to re-assure them.

[webfact]

Qantas flight turns back as labour dispute grows

SYDNEY, October 17, 2011 (AFP) - A Sydney-bound Qantas flight was forced to turn back to Bangkok after a bang was heard on board, the airline said Monday, as the carrier separately grounded five aircraft due to a labour row.

The 'Flying Kangaroo', which is locked in increasingly heated talks with pilots, engineers and baggage handlers on wages and conditions, was also explaining how it fumbled the delivery of an unaccompanied 11-year-old boy.

Qantas said QF002 from Bangkok to Sydney turned back about one hour into its journey Sunday after a noise was heard and excessive vibrations reportedly felt.

"There was some noise reported on board the aircraft," a Qantas spokeswoman said, adding that engineers had identified the probable cause as one of the aircraft's Rolls-Royce RB211 engines.

The Boeing 747-400, carrying 356 people, touched back down in Bangkok without incident.

"There was some white sparks shooting out of the engine and then they informed us of what was going on, that the engine had been shut down and we were returning to Bangkok," one passenger told Macquarie Radio.

The incident comes as Qantas grounded five aircraft for a month, removing some 400 flights and 60,000 seats from its schedule, after rolling strikes by engineers caused a maintenance backlog.

Qantas has said the industrial action was also affecting forward bookings as unions remain fixed on negotiating pay increases and job security with the carrier refocussing its business towards Asia.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard has called on both sides to sort out their differences, but said it was too early for the government to intervene -- an action available to her if the dispute threatens the national economy.

The developments came as Qantas admitted that it lost the paperwork for an 11-year-old boy who was travelling from Melbourne to Hobart on his own last month.

"While the unaccompanied minor was escorted off the aircraft by Qantas cabin crew, the relevant paperwork was misplaced during the flight," the airline said in a statement.

"This was an error and Qantas has apologised to the customer. At no stage was the child 'lost'."

The child's mother Leanne Decleva told the Sydney Morning Herald that airline staff told her there was no paperwork for her to sign for her son's collection and they did not know who was authorised to pick him up.

"I've shown my licence as ID and they just (said) take him," Decleva said.

"But there could have been a custody battle in train and I may have been prevented from having any contact with him."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-10-17

[midas]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

But it may not necessarily all be the fault of Qantas?

in a recent 4 Corners documentary about Qantas Flight 32 on 4 November 2010 which suffered an uncontained engine failure, it was amazing that the CEO of Qantas openly criticised Rolls-Royce regarding the handling of public relations as to why that engine failed also.

[midas]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

But it may not necessarily all be the fault of Qantas?

in a recent 4 Corners documentary about Qantas Flight 32 on 4 November 2010 which suffered an uncontained engine failure, it was amazing that the CEO of Qantas openly criticised Rolls-Royce regarding the handling of public relations as to why that engine failed also.

I forgot to mention also on flight 32 in 2010 they happened to have two check captains on-board that flight as well as the normal Capt

( so a check Captain checking a check Captain who was checking the Captain in control ) although it is fortunate they had all that experience on board considering what happened that day. But what is also amazing is that the most senior Check captain also made a remark regarding Rolls-Royce in the 4 Corners documentary which could also be considered quite derogatory and would cause certain people to lose confidence somewhat in that particular company

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_32

Edited October 17, 2011 by midas

[andrew55]

The most frequent question that I get from nervous passengers is "Do big airliners like this crash very often?"

"Usually, only once." seems to re-assure them.

[david555]

In such case & it is your last day on visa , and departed stamped ......witch is the visa status because of return & failure to depart complete..??

[midas]

I forgot to mention also on flight 32 in 2010 they happened to have two check captains on-board that flight as well as the normal Capt

( so a check Captain checking a check Captain who was checking the Captain in control ) although it is fortunate they had all that experience on board considering what happened that day. But what is also amazing is that the most senior Check captain also made a remark regarding Rolls-Royce in the 4 Corners documentary which could also be considered quite derogatory and would cause certain people to lose confidence somewhat in that particular company

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_32

for those who are reading this thread and who may be interested in hearing about this similar incident in greater depth

( and the potential impact to the reputation of Qantas )

the ABC 4 Corners documentary is well worth watching at this link :-

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110328/qantas/

[OzMick]

In such case & it is your last day on visa , and departed stamped ......witch is the visa status because of return & failure to depart complete..??

How would they know? Oz doesn't stamp passports of their citizens. Could only see a problem if from a country not eligible for visa on arrival, and I'm sure they would have a special case procedure if required.

[david555]

In such case & it is your last day on visa , and departed stamped ......witch is the visa status because of return & failure to depart complete..??

How would they know? Oz doesn't stamp passports of their citizens. Could only see a problem if from a country not eligible for visa on arrival, and I'm sure they would have a special case procedure if required.

Leaving Thailand.....Oz has nothing to do with it , as flight returns Th. by default plaine , but i assume also this is an exeption and Th immgr. would see it also so, or even Airline would back up the case i think

[ableguy]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

You mean I wonder if it was a bird strike ? and at what altitude ?

[Payboy]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

You mean I wonder if it was a bird strike ? and at what altitude ?

Could have been an escaped croc?

[chooka]

QANTAS sure has had a lot of incidents in the last couple of years that sound like near misses to the untrained observer (myself and most people). Is the industry competition driving the executives to cut corners on safety & maintenance or is this just a series of coincidences? I know we have some pilots around here who probably have a thought or two.

But it may not necessarily all be the fault of Qantas?

in a recent 4 Corners documentary about Qantas Flight 32 on 4 November 2010 which suffered an uncontained engine failure, it was amazing that the CEO of Qantas openly criticised Rolls-Royce regarding the handling of public relations as to why that engine failed also.

I forgot to mention also on flight 32 in 2010 they happened to have two check captains on-board that flight as well as the normal Capt

( so a check Captain checking a check Captain who was checking the Captain in control ) although it is fortunate they had all that experience on board considering what happened that day. But what is also amazing is that the most senior Check captain also made a remark regarding Rolls-Royce in the 4 Corners documentary which could also be considered quite derogatory and would cause certain people to lose confidence somewhat in that particular company

http://en.wikipedia....antas_Flight_32

I guess that would have been the remark in answer to the doctor saying he will give his son the rolls royce treatment. Yes I watched the show here in Thailand last week.

[chooka]

In such case & it is your last day on visa , and departed stamped ......witch is the visa status because of return & failure to depart complete..??

How would they know? Oz doesn't stamp passports of their citizens. Could only see a problem if from a country not eligible for visa on arrival, and I'm sure they would have a special case procedure if required.

500 baht fine or buy a new visa on landing

[phiphidon]

I forgot to mention also on flight 32 in 2010 they happened to have two check captains on-board that flight as well as the normal Capt

( so a check Captain checking a check Captain who was checking the Captain in control ) although it is fortunate they had all that experience on board considering what happened that day. But what is also amazing is that the most senior Check captain also made a remark regarding Rolls-Royce in the 4 Corners documentary which could also be considered quite derogatory and would cause certain people to lose confidence somewhat in that particular company

http://en.wikipedia....antas_Flight_32

for those who are reading this thread and who may be interested in hearing about this similar incident in greater depth

( and the potential impact to the reputation of Qantas )

the ABC 4 Corners documentary is well worth watching at this link :-

http://www.abc.net.a...0110328/qantas/

Another incident here with a Rolls Royce RB211 engine on a Quantas 747-400 flight to San Francisco on the 29th August - "uncontained engine failure" - http://www.channelne...1159767/1/.html

I watched the 4 Corners documentary and at the time thought the Captains remarks were biased towards Quantas - However, it seems as his experience was not a one-off and I can now quite understand Quantas Pilots' lack of confidence in Rolls Royce engines and/or the maintenance thereof. Whether his remarks were aimed at Rolls Royce per se or maybe a subtle way of drawing attention to Mr "Ryan Airways" approach to aircraft maintenance can only be guessed at. Either way, Rolls Royce doesn't seem to be doing themselves any good by remaining silent.

[ginjag]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

You mean I wonder if it was a bird strike ? and at what altitude ?

Could have been an escaped croc?

could have been a pig-as there are many flying in Thailand

Just to add the 747.400 has a different R.R. engine than the new A380. so I would very much doubt that it's a related problem.

As for a U.S.A. poster(that's a guess) who is promoting his own Pratt and Whitney engines, he will have to look at their safety record before suggesting -switching- Sorry Rolls Royce are the best, and the most reliable,and more economical, sour grapes sir, same as the Concord was the best but U.S.A. was jealous again, didn't buy ?? but most business men were Americans who wanted the 3 hour-rather than 7 hour flight.

[Rinrada]

Happened to me once on a Malaysia flight from KL back to London.

Knew sumit was wrong when the beer service stopped.

Sure enough had a look of of the window and one of the engines was on fire.Waved at the stewardess and she indicated.. shushh please..most passengers were sleeping and prob didnt know....

No Prob.

Pilot made a very confident call,put out the fire,told us that he would dump the fuel and headed back to KL...very professional.

Spent the night in a cracking hotel in KL and raided the mini bar...

[WarpSpeed]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

At first I thought that too but 10 minutes in flight it should have already been too high for that.

It wasn't Quantas but coming over here in 2003 about an hour out of Japan I had taken one of my stretching walks around the cabin and always went to the wings area as the emergency exits there provide a wide area to stretch in and I like to watch the engines and the wings flexing and such.

I had done this several times during the trip and I'm very familiar with expected movements, but the left side inboard engine had developed exactly the type of rotational vibration that is described here and I called over the steward in the business class to have a look and he was not at all condescending nor patronizing.

He asked me "what was up?" and if "I was seeing something?" and I told him I had 20 some years with working with motors of all types and that the motion on that engine was like an out of balance washing machine but not that dramatic yet and he watched for several minutes with me and finally I said "I'm going back to put on my seat belt" (being the only comfort I could get) and he agreed and said he would get the engineer back here to have a look and shortly after that I heard the other engines come up in RPM's as that one was shut down.

That was the longest hour of my life, we had a delay in Japan and the gate was right in front of us and they backed the jet out and brought in another one for the final leg to Bangkok. I felt very satisfied I was paying attention and much to their credit they were not patronizing in any way and took me serious. That plane was rough and was showing it's age, the one they brought in was nearly new and much nicer for that leg too bad it wasn't what we had for the lengthy part ... If anything good has come out of the 911 tragedy my feeling is that the flight crews are more connected with the passengers to work as a team in cases such as this for everyone to get to our destination together instead of us against them.. In the not so distant past that's how it would have been...

[lberk]

Perhaps Qantas should incorporate the following safety checklist, as used by the freight carrier UPS:

Remember, it takes a college degree to fly a plane, but only a high school diploma to fix one. (That's reassuring to those who fly routinely).

After every flight, UPS pilots fill out a form, called a 'gripe sheet,' which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on

the form, and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by UPS pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers.

By the way, UPS is the only major airline that has never, ever, had an accident...

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.

S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

*

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.

S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

*

P: Something loose in cockpit

S: Something tightened in cockpit

*

P: Dead bugs on windshield.

S: Live bugs on back-order.

*

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute

descent

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

*

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.

S: Evidence removed.

*

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.

S: DME volume set to more believable level.

*

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.

S: That's what friction locks are for.

*

P: IFF inoperative in OFF mode.

S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

*

P: Suspected crack in windshield.

S: Suspect you 're right.

*

P: Number 3 engine missing.

S: Engine found on right wing after brief search

*

P: Aircraft handles funny.

S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right and be serious.

*

P: Target radar hums.

S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

*

P: Mouse in cockpit.

S: Cat installed.

*

And the best one for last

*

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget

Edited October 17, 2011 by cdnvic
removed weird fonts

[55Jay]

This happened to me onboard an Air France 747 from CGD to BKK, only they had to shut down two engines! spent a night in Disney World.

Not long after take off, most likely a bird strike....

At first I thought that too but 10 minutes in flight it should have already been too high for that.

It wasn't Quantas but coming over here in 2003 about an hour out of Japan I had taken one of my stretching walks around the cabin and always went to the wings area as the emergency exits there provide a wide area to stretch in and I like to watch the engines and the wings flexing and such.

I had done this several times during the trip and I'm very familiar with expected movements, but the left side inboard engine had developed exactly the type of rotational vibration that is described here and I called over the steward in the business class to have a look and he was not at all condescending nor patronizing.

He asked me "what was up?" and if "I was seeing something?" and I told him I had 20 some years with working with motors of all types and that the motion on that engine was like an out of balance washing machine but not that dramatic yet and he watched for several minutes with me and finally I said "I'm going back to put on my seat belt" (being the only comfort I could get) and he agreed and said he would get the engineer back here to have a look and shortly after that I heard the other engines come up in RPM's as that one was shut down.

That was the longest hour of my life, we had a delay in Japan and the gate was right in front of us and they backed the jet out and brought in another one for the final leg to Bangkok. I felt very satisfied I was paying attention and much to their credit they were not patronizing in any way and took me serious. That plane was rough and was showing it's age, the one they brought in was nearly new and much nicer for that leg too bad it wasn't what we had for the lengthy part ... If anything good has come out of the 911 tragedy my feeling is that the flight crews are more connected with the passengers to work as a team in cases such as this for everyone to get to our destination together instead of us against them.. In the not so distant past that's how it would have been...

Great story/account. Was thinking nothing would happen at the front end of it, so the result you described at the end was really interesting. Always makes me wonder "what if" .

[theblether]

Perhaps Qantas should incorporate the following safety checklist, as used by the freight carrier UPS:

Remember, it takes a college degree to fly a plane, but only a high school diploma to fix one. (That's reassuring to those who fly routinely).

After every flight, UPS pilots fill out a form, called a 'gripe sheet,' which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on

the form, and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by UPS pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers.

By the way, UPS is the only major airline that has never, ever, had an accident...

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.

S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

*

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.

S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

*

P: Something loose in cockpit

S: Something tightened in cockpit

*

P: Dead bugs on windshield.

S: Live bugs on back-order.

*

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute

descent

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

*

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.

S: Evidence removed.

*

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.

S: DME volume set to more believable level.

*

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.

S: That's what friction locks are for.

*

P: IFF inoperative in OFF mode.

S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

*

P: Suspected crack in windshield.

S: Suspect you 're right.

*

P: Number 3 engine missing.

S: Engine found on right wing after brief search

*

P: Aircraft handles funny.

S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right and be serious.

*

P: Target radar hums.

S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

*

P: Mouse in cockpit.

S: Cat installed.

*

And the best one for last

*

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget

You Started my day with a good laugh, thanks very much.

[sfbandung]

The most frequent question that I get from nervous passengers is "Do big airliners like this crash very often?"

"Usually, only once." seems to re-assure them.

Fair dinkum Mick.