PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

[metisdead]

Empty posts (posts in which a member posts a quoted post but does not add any text) have been removed. Subsequent posts replying to the empty posts have been removed as well. Reconsider this method and make your reply when you post the quoted post.

[rubl]

while afaik your statement is accurate, how does it dispel hammered's analysis? (assuming that was the point of your post, of course...) I read his post as saying SOE stories are just part of scoring political points in a time of crisis and that this game (1) helps no one, and (2) is likely to continue. Do you agree with that, too?

This game indeed helps no one and sadly is likely to continue. Mind you being reasonable seems only to come naturally to some when they got caught out, or talked themselves in a corner. Now please excuse me, I have to check what my friend k. Jatuporn had to say today.

So glad Jatuporn is your friend, you compliment each other.

Typo, dear chap. Surely you meant 'complement'

[Buchholz]

It is also reported elsewhere (including English language unmentionable one) that the military do not want an SOE as they are worried they will take the blame if or when it all falls apart as they dont see any way anyone can fight such a force of nature. So the government dont and military dont, so no story bar poltical games by others. It would be good to stop such games at a time of crisis but unlikley to happen

It's entirely Yingluck's decision to make whether or not to declare a state of emergency.

I think it is entirely the decision of one man in Dubai.

A practical and accurate extension.

[Buchholz]

It is also reported elsewhere (including English language unmentionable one) that the military do not want an SOE as they are worried they will take the blame if or when it all falls apart as they dont see any way anyone can fight such a force of nature. So the government dont and military dont, so no story bar poltical games by others. It would be good to stop such games at a time of crisis but unlikley to happen

It's entirely Yingluck's decision to make whether or not to declare a state of emergency.

while afaik your statement is accurate, how does it dispel hammered's analysis? (assuming that was the point of your post, of course...) I read his post as saying SOE stories are just part of scoring political points in a time of crisis and that this game (1) helps no one, and (2) is likely to continue. Do you agree with that, too?

Of course my statement is accurate. It's the law.

I read his stories (an apt description, btw) as attempting to put equal emphasis on the decision-making process that isn't there.

If the PM wishes to declare a SOE, then, by God, the Prime Minister issues a State of Emergency.

.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Buchholz

[eddiench]

Wonder who are the majority suffering from this disaster? They sure reap what they sow! Deserves every bit of it...if you still remember last years blood pouring acts!

[hellodolly]

It is also reported elsewhere (including English language unmentionable one) that the military do not want an SOE as they are worried they will take the blame if or when it all falls apart as they dont see any way anyone can fight such a force of nature. So the government dont and military dont, so no story bar poltical games by others. It would be good to stop such games at a time of crisis but unlikley to happen

Cant blame them for that. The government has let it get to that point. If they had acted when it became apparent there was trouble they could have mitigated some of the damage.

[Thaddeus]

1 What really can Yingluck do,

2 I really feel sorry for people in government for the first time when I read the posts of people.

3 How can an army fix a flood??

I'm sorry for editing the quoted post a little, but I thought that it needed numbering to reply to it correctly.

1 Resign.

2 Why feel sorry for them, they have spent their entire lives raping this country for all it is worth, and most of them will currently have their sights set on how they can rape it some more.

3 They can't, but they didn't cause it, and their help in alleviating the situation could be beneficial.

[rubl]

PM steps up control

The Nation October 22, 2011 12:27 pm

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday overrode the mandate of the city administration by invoking the disaster law to take over the supervision of flood control and drainage in Bangkok.

Under Article 31 of the 2550 Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act, the central government has in effect sidelined the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration in terms of dealing with floods.

"The written order as mandated by the disaster law would be clear for all relevant agencies to comply with in uniformity, such as the issue of opening sluice gates to regulate the water flow," Yingluck said.

Before issuing the disaster warning for Bangkok, she chaired a highlevel meeting to assess the situation, particularly the runoff heading toward the capital. Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

The government and city administration must work jointly in regulating the water flow via sluice gates, she said.

As for contaminated water flowing into the canal reserved for the production of tap water, she said this was because a dyke had broken down and that she had instructed the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority to speed up its repair.

She has also given the military the job of guarding the dykes at two critical areas - Khlong Hok Wa and Lak Hok in Pathum Thani - believed to be the last flood barriers before the runoffs reach the capital.

The military and concerned agencies should step up floodcontrol measures to protect key installations like the Grand Palace, Siriraj Hospital as well as Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports, she said.

The Transport Ministry would be in charge of ensuring uninterrupted traffic on key roads, tollways and the mass transit system, she said, adding that related agencies should ensure that there is an adequate supply of essential goods.

She also voiced concerns that a large number of flood victims were still waiting to be rescued in Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani. Yingluck has also told state officials to find additional areas for shelter and parking spaces.

Reacting to Sukhumbhand's call to stop the waterworks canal or Khlong Prapa from overflowing, she said the central government and the city administration should act as one instead of playing the blame game. The canal is located just outside the city's jurisdiction.

The government stands ready to help the city and likewise, the city administration should try to look beyond its boundary and work with the central authorities to solve the overall situation, she said.

Yingluck said she still believes that enforcing the emergency decree at this juncture would not improve the situation. On the contrary, she said, emergency rule might undermine the confidence of investors.

In reaction to the prime minister's latest moves, Sukhumbhand said he had no objections because this would make his job easier, adding that he was ready to cooperate with the central government in trying to overcome the floods.

Meanwhile, Army chief General Prayuth Chanocha yesterday encouraged the government to impose the state of emergency in order to strengthen the power of its Flood Relief Operation Centre and help it deal with the worsening flood situation.

However, he said the emergency law could not be strictly imposed against residents suffering from severe floods. "Fully enforcing the law might lead to confrontations between officials and residents or between the government and citizens, though enforcing the law would be beneficial," he said.

When asked about some politicians' speculation that declaring emergency would lead to a military coup, the Army chief responded by asking if there was anyone in the armed forces "stupid enough" to stage a coup at this time of disaster.

"They should focus on helping the people as much as possible. Politics and the military are not related. My appeal is that no accusations should be made to upset soldiers who are working hard [to help with the flood situation]," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-10-22

[tlansford]

It is also reported elsewhere (including English language unmentionable one) that the military do not want an SOE as they are worried they will take the blame if or when it all falls apart as they dont see any way anyone can fight such a force of nature. So the government dont and military dont, so no story bar poltical games by others. It would be good to stop such games at a time of crisis but unlikley to happen

It's entirely Yingluck's decision to make whether or not to declare a state of emergency.

while afaik your statement is accurate, how does it dispel hammered's analysis? (assuming that was the point of your post, of course...) I read his post as saying SOE stories are just part of scoring political points in a time of crisis and that this game (1) helps no one, and (2) is likely to continue. Do you agree with that, too?

Of course my statement is accurate. It's the law.

I read his stories (an apt description, btw) as attempting to put equal emphasis on the decision-making process that isn't there.

If the PM wishes to declare a SOE, then, by God, the Prime Minister issues a State of Emergency.

.

When a US president declares a state of emergency, it is not a decision that is taken in a vacuum. This is how I read Hammered's comment and that is reasonable to me and is not incompatible with your statement.

Sure, it is the PMs decision.

BTW, the AFIAK in my previous reply is simply my way to take into consideration that there may be nuances in the Thai laws that I am not aware of and was in no way meant to question your knowledge of Thai laws.

[Arkady]

She has issued a "Disaster Warning" instead. So does she think that a Disaster Warning would not have an affect on foreign investor confidence? Or was she lying about the reason for not declaring a State of Emergency?

Of course she was lying about the real reason for not declaring a state of emergency. That would have given additional temporary powers to the military which she is trying to muzzle through amending the Defence Administration Act and be able to dictate the reshuffles herself (with expert advice from the Gulf), while the red shirts are clamouring for prosecutions of the top brass. Despite the red shirt allegations to the contrary, the military is doing a reasonable job of disaster relief which is something they have the best resources and training for. No one in the government wants the military to look good and make the planned purge more difficult, even if that if that means that a lot of ordinary folk will have to do without assistance. Foreign investors could not give a sh*t whether she declares a state of emergency or invokes the Disaster Mitigation and Prevention Act instead. Most would not be aware there is any difference and anyway it is sight of all of those factories under two metres of water that affects their confidence not finer points of the obscure Thai legal system.

What is interesting is the reaction of Bangkok Governor Sukhumphand to Yingluck's disaster decree which effectively sidelines his role in flood and crisis management. He said it would make his job easier. Clearly the floods are coming to Bangkok now, not because of continuing heavy rains, as these have abated, but because water is still being released from the dams due to incompetent water management. Since the government now wants to appear to promote flooding in Bangkok, which is inevitable to a certain extent anyway, to avoid the appearance of favoritism, there is not much more Sukhumphand could do, given that he depends on cooperation from the surrounding provinces of Patum Thani and Nakorn Patum that are under direct government control. Thus it is better for him to disappear from view and let Bangkok voters understand that the flooding of Bangkok coincided with the Yingluck's use of emergency legislation to red card their own elected governor to be replaced by incompetent government ministers elected by upcountry people.

[brd]

<br />Since when has the opinions of those outside of Thailand been taken into account?<br /><br />Dont you think foreign confidence is damaged enough with the mis-management of this disaster?<br /><br />With Thailand being in the international news about the flooding and being hammered by the UN etc, issuing a SOE is the right thing to do, let the Military be fully deployed where they are needed to help with evacuation, distributing relief supplies and repairing flood defenses.  Yingluck needs to put aside her partisan politics and let the army help, instead of making a mess of things<br />

<br /><br /><br />

absolutely common sense expressed with your comments. This PM is showing her in-aptitude to judge the priorities rightly.....

[elgato]

This was in the New York Times. Now we know who's the boss

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said Friday that she would take direct command of flood control in Thailand as Bangkok took the risky step of opening its floodgates and as criticism of the government mounted after days of disorganization and conflicting messages."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/asia/bangkok-opens-floodgates-as-government-response-is-criticized.html

[xthAi76s]

I am sooooo tired of reading the same crap every day about how the government is inept and how everything their doing is wrong or they are not doing enough to make things right. Yet nobody that criticises the government has any0suggestions of how to do things better. It is so easy to criticise yet very difficult to make possitive suggestions of how things could be improved. It almost makes me tired of following this forum!!!

There is much negativity, but there are also MANY suggestions that I have seen on a number of dozens of threads. Look more carefully.

What we are experiencing with all this flooding is a major natural disaster and it is difficult for anyone can say with 100% confidence that this will happen or that will happen. Hence, the government is trying to tell people what to do to avoid significant problems and dangers, but is isn't easy. There are simply too many variables to predict correctly. I think it is better if all we farangs just shut up and let the government try to do it's best to resolve the problem. After all, we are guests in this country! If there are any good ideas on how to improve the situation, send those ideas to the government and see if they will accept your suggestion and try to improve the situation. Otherwise, it does absolutely no good to continuously berate the government and talk about, in your opinions, their ineptitude. They are trying to resolve a problem that hasn't happened in at least 50 years. Let's not also forget that Thailand is still a third world country and is not a UK, USA, Australia or any other western European country, with experienced democratic governments and lots of talent to draw up to solve a significant problem. So give them a break! They are trying their best to resolve this issue as quickly as they can.

Actually, nobody really knows just what percentages of this crisis to attribute to 1) nature/rain, 2) mismanagement of the dams/dykes systems -- keeping certain ones at 100% capacity as long as possible, 3) poor engineering of the damns and dykes -- like EARTHEN dykes, for example, 4) sabotage by various citizens of damns/dykes -- which was reported on the news. The UN (not that they are anywhere near perfect) is investigating, but the prelim report from them attributes most of the blame to #2 above...

The government has NOT reported a whole lot of useful information to the people. My wife is a very well educated Thai, speaks and reads Thai and has complained that there has been a glaring lack of credible information from the government. NOBODY who is reasonable would expect a government to be able to always completely avert natural disaster. I think most of humanity is still in agreement that we have not mastered the Earth this degree as of yet, BUT what people do EXPECT and DESERVE are very basic things that most of us probably learned in grade school or at least college or in our professional lives. We expect to have some idea (doesn't have to be perfect) of 1) Who -- is helping in the effort and what their responsibilities are, 2) What -- is happening (reporting on it often) & What might happen, for instance if plans for mitigation fail, & 3) When (precisely to the minute) things are coming to pass -- like, if the government's plans fail. This government has done an absolutely abhorrent job, almost juvenile at basic project/disaster management.

And, who cares that they are not a first world country? Even first world countries make similar mistakes (sometimes). Does that mean we should all just quietly feel sorry for them (and us, for those of us who live here in Thailand)? That's a pretty convenient way to live, isn't it? It would be much easier to have such an attitude if I had absolutely no empathy for the plight of the Thai people, didn't live here and didn't have anyone at all that I love or deeply care about here.

Also, regarding comments about how Suphanburi has not suffered any flooding, at the expense of it's neighboring provinces, that is simply a statement by uninformed persons. I drove around Suphanburi yesterday and found most of the rice farm areas completely flooded with water. Also, many of the small towns near the Tha Chin River are totally inundated with flooding. So for someone to claim that Suphanburi has avoided any flooding situation is simply ignorance on the part of the claimer. What needs to be realized is that Suphanburi does not lie along the banks of the Chao Praya River. It is these other provinces, like Nakhor Sawan, Chai Nat, Singburi, Ang Thong, Ayutthaya, etc., through which the Chao Praya River flows, that are inundated with flooding because they surround the massive overflowing river. Suphanburi can only have flooding from the overflow of the Tha Chin River. And currently, that river is overflowing it's banks all along its route, causing significant flooding to Suphanburi. I would estimate that more than 70-80% of the rice farms in Suphanburi are already flooded. What is different in Suphanburi, from other provinces which have significant flooding, is that Suphanburi has built it roads significantly higher than the land of either side of the road. Hence, when there is flooding in the farmland, it doesn't necessarily flood the roads. Hence the major roads though the province are still open and usable. And perhaps we should all be thankful for that since the current only way north of Bangkok is through Nakhon Pathum and Suphanburi. Thanks to those smart enough to build roads significantly higher than the potential flood level of the farmland adjacent to the major highways for making this possible.

All in all, complaining is an important part of any progressing society. Sure, us foreigners like to complain. Most of us come from societies where we our civilizations have crawled and clawed and fought and argued their way into being. Thais are complaining as well. I cannot read Thai, but my wife can and points out videos and links for me to look at and she translates. The educated Thais are mad as hell, although they would not tend to express it so openly as us 'westerners'. They have MUCH to be angry about. People needed/need basic information as to what may happen, when it might happen and what to do if it happens. They are getting very little of this. I STILL don't know what precisely is going on, and my wife and I have our eyes and ears glued to every source we know of. That's a problem.

For anyone who understands Thai:

(video of THAI guy ranting on many of the same points made by people here. there have been plenty of others.) Edited October 22, 2011 by ThailandMan

[Vit77]

There is much negativity, but there are also MANY suggestions that I have seen on a number of dozens of threads. Look more carefully.

I am also sooooo tired of reading the same crap every day about how the government is inept and how everything their doing is wrong or they are not doing enough to make things right.

Try to go thru so many topics then and find accurate suggestions. And you think government don't know all off these possibilities? The problem is that nobody will follow every single post on forum where farang idiots fight each other in nonsense "discussions" to try to find some smart/stupid suggestion.

The government has NOT reported a whole lot of useful information to the people. My wife is a very well educated Thai, speaks and reads Thai and has complained that there has been a glaring lack of credible information from the government. NOBODY who is reasonable would expect a government to be able to always completely avert natural disaster. I think most of humanity is still in agreement that we have not mastered the Earth this degree as of yet, BUT what people do EXPECT and DESERVE are very basic things that most of us probably learned in grade school or at least college or in our professional lives. We expect to have some idea (doesn't have to be perfect) of 1) Who -- is helping in the effort and what their responsibilities are, 2) What -- is happening (reporting on it often) & What might happen, for instance if plans for mitigation fail, & 3) When (precisely to the minute) things are coming to pass -- like, if the government's plans fail. This government has done an absolutely abhorrent job, almost juvenile at basic project/disaster management.

Same happened in many countries which were affected by disasters. Even in so called "civilized" countries. And what? You think the governments were criticized? Yes, they were. That's the nature of frustrated people. Criticize everything and everywhere. In this particular case government has many choices, also about informing people. Some information should be said, some not. City doesn't need 10 000 000 people in the cars leaving. That would be disaster. Anyway - let government do the job now, organize the help after..

And, who cares that they are not a first world country? Even first world countries make similar mistakes (sometimes). Does that mean we should all just quietly feel sorry for them (and us, for those of us who live here in Thailand)? That's a pretty convenient way to live, isn't it? It would be much easier to have such an attitude if I had absolutely no empathy for the plight of the Thai people, didn't live here and didn't have anyone at all that I love or deeply care about here.

Mistakes? Sometimes? Not sometimes, quite often. But it doesn't metter. What metter for me is lack of information from farangs who could just make short reports where they live and what's going on. Then many foreigners in the city would predict what's gonna happen in next 2-3 hours. And what we have instead? Idiotic fights on public forum where moderators can't intervene due to their actual situation in Bangkok. Shame.

All in all, complaining is an important part of any progressing society. Sure, us foreigners like to complain. Most of us come from societies where we our civilizations have crawled and clawed and fought and argues their way into being. Thais are complaining as well. I cannot read Thai, but my wife can and points out videos and links for me to look at and she translates. The educated Thais are mad as hell, although they would not tend to express it so openly as us 'westerners'. They have MUCH to be angry about. People needed/need basic information as to what may happen, when it might happen and what to do if it happens. They are getting very little of this. I STILL don't know what precisely is going on, and my wife and I have our eyes and ears glued to every source we know of. That's a problem.

For anyone who understands Thai:

(video of THAI guy ranting on many of the same points made by people here. there have been plenty of others.)

Of course complaining is an important part of any - so called - progressing society. However it doesn't help much, especially in Thailand. First at all you need to understand Thai ego and Thai culture at all. You can't just do it the way you do. I think you stay in this country long enough to know that if you do - you will be simply ignored. Is that bad? Maybe. But this is part of the culture. Why so many farangs live here? Because they like many many things in Thai culture. But you can't have ideal society (ideal in your opinion). We live here because simply it's easy and nice to live here.

And about "educated Thai who are mad as hell", come on.. most of my neighbours work for companies as a managers with salary 100k+ or are selfemployed doing some profitable businesses. I don't think they're mad - I talk to them every day, they inform me what's going on. And what are the suggestions. We help each other to protect our houses, to seal the front doors and windows, to order and carry some sandbags, or to move belongings to the upper floors. Just, you know, they are NORMAL educated Thai, not kids who make political rumors how bad is situation and how PM didn't come straight to their house and tell them, put 5 sandbags here, and 5 there. People who DON'T WANT TO know anything - will complain they don't know. Poeple who WANT TO know - will find the way to know.

[daboyz1]

At least Nero played his Violin when Rome burned. She has no skills.

[daboyz1]

I am also sooooo tired of reading the same crap every day about how the government is inept and how everything their doing is wrong or they are not doing enough to make things right.

Try to go thru so many topics then and find accurate suggestions. And you think government don't know all off these possibilities? The problem is that nobody will follow every single post on forum where farang idiots fight each other in nonsense "discussions" to try to find some smart/stupid suggestion.

The government has NOT reported a whole lot of useful information to the people. My wife is a very well educated Thai, speaks and reads Thai and has complained that there has been a glaring lack of credible information from the government. NOBODY who is reasonable would expect a government to be able to always completely avert natural disaster. I think most of humanity is still in agreement that we have not mastered the Earth this degree as of yet, BUT what people do EXPECT and DESERVE are very basic things that most of us probably learned in grade school or at least college or in our professional lives. We expect to have some idea (doesn't have to be perfect) of 1) Who -- is helping in the effort and what their responsibilities are, 2) What -- is happening (reporting on it often) & What might happen, for instance if plans for mitigation fail, & 3) When (precisely to the minute) things are coming to pass -- like, if the government's plans fail. This government has done an absolutely abhorrent job, almost juvenile at basic project/disaster management.

Same happened in many countries which were affected by disasters. Even in so called "civilized" countries. And what? You think the governments were criticized? Yes, they were. That's the nature of frustrated people. Criticize everything and everywhere. In this particular case government has many choices, also about informing people. Some information should be said, some not. City doesn't need 10 000 000 people in the cars leaving. That would be disaster. Anyway - let government do the job now, organize the help after..

And, who cares that they are not a first world country? Even first world countries make similar mistakes (sometimes). Does that mean we should all just quietly feel sorry for them (and us, for those of us who live here in Thailand)? That's a pretty convenient way to live, isn't it? It would be much easier to have such an attitude if I had absolutely no empathy for the plight of the Thai people, didn't live here and didn't have anyone at all that I love or deeply care about here.

Mistakes? Sometimes? Not sometimes, quite often. But it doesn't metter. What metter for me is lack of information from farangs who could just make short reports where they live and what's going on. Then many foreigners in the city would predict what's gonna happen in next 2-3 hours. And what we have instead? Idiotic fights on public forum where moderators can't intervene due to their actual situation in Bangkok. Shame.

All in all, complaining is an important part of any progressing society. Sure, us foreigners like to complain. Most of us come from societies where we our civilizations have crawled and clawed and fought and argues their way into being. Thais are complaining as well. I cannot read Thai, but my wife can and points out videos and links for me to look at and she translates. The educated Thais are mad as hell, although they would not tend to express it so openly as us 'westerners'. They have MUCH to be angry about. People needed/need basic information as to what may happen, when it might happen and what to do if it happens. They are getting very little of this. I STILL don't know what precisely is going on, and my wife and I have our eyes and ears glued to every source we know of. That's a problem.

For anyone who understands Thai:

(video of THAI guy ranting on many of the same points made by people here. there have been plenty of others.)

Of course complaining is an important part of any - so called - progressing society. However it doesn't help much, especially in Thailand. First at all you need to understand Thai ego and Thai culture at all. You can't just do it the way you do. I think you stay in this country long enough to know that if you do - you will be simply ignored. Is that bad? Maybe. But this is part of the culture. Why so many farangs live here? Because they like many many things in Thai culture. But you can't have ideal society (ideal in your opinion). We live here because simply it's easy and nice to live here.

And about "educated Thai who are mad as hell", come on.. most of my neighbours work for companies as a managers with salary 100k+ or are selfemployed doing some profitable businesses. I don't think they're mad - I talk to them every day, they inform me what's going on. And what are the suggestions. We help each other to protect our houses, to seal the front doors and windows, to order and carry some sandbags, or to move belongings to the upper floors. Just, you know, they are NORMAL educated Thai, not kids who make political rumors how bad is situation and how PM didn't come straight to their house and tell them, put 5 sandbags here, and 5 there. People who DON'T WANT TO know anything - will complain they don't know. Poeple who WANT TO know - will find the way to know.

That 3 pages of incoherent posting. I'm thinking English is your second language.

[Vit77]

That 3 pages of incoherent posting. I'm thinking English is your second language.

You're clearly wrong sir

It's 4th. Sorry for that. Tried my best.

[xthAi76s]

** I had to delete some of our conversation because of the quotes limitation issue. **

I agree with much of what you're saying in your post. I agree with your point on not inciting panic, but I cannot allow that to be an excuse for the poor information flow from them. If it'd happened in the US, I'd be making the same criticism. I also agree that our forum ranting probably has minimal positive impact on the situation -- perhaps other than to at least give us some indication as to what other people are thinking (no matter how correct or incorrect). Personally, it's also a way for me to let off some of the steam of anxiety. I've been in limbo for weeks not really knowing what to do.

Instead of writing 'educated Thais', I should have written 'some educated Thais' as it would have been much appropriate. I also know a decent number of them, and the ones I'm closest to, when asked for an opinion on matters, have generally expressed dissatisfaction with the government's efforts. If I make no effort to encourage them to offer an opinion, they almost never say anything to me or my wife. I think that has a bit to do with the culture here. There also seems to be somewhat of a reluctance to talk to 'outsiders' about sensitive topics. I think you can agree that this kind of behavior is present and normal in most any society to varying degrees.

Yes, there are indeed MANY things I like about Thailand and the Thais, but I never fully understand why people regularly bring this topic into such discussions as these. Certainly my love of many parts of Thai culture does not impact one way or another my criticisms of what's going on. So, for me, personally, I try not to simply rant on and on about this and that because it does tend to paint someone as just being generally displeased with their place in the world, but that is me. Others have different experiences and motivations which is fine. I am not here to judge (at least not today)

Anyway, I'm certainly not defending any bickering, but I still think my original reply to the other poster stands along with some of your points. I don't think we really disagree on much. You simply seem to be pointing out that the bickering is not very helpful to you. Not to me either, other than the occasional laugh.

[Vit77]

Glad you agree, sorry for some not polite phrases

Yes, there are indeed MANY things I like about Thailand and the Thais, but I never fully understand why people regularly bring this topic into such discussions as these. Certainly my love of many parts of Thai culture does not impact one way or another my criticisms of what's going on. So, for me, personally, I try not to simply rant on and on about this and that because it does tend to paint someone as just being generally displeased with their place in the world, but that is me. Others have different experiences and motivations which is fine. I am not here to judge (at least not today)

I think this is about Thailand seems as a whole country. Some guys made good points in this topic:

Most people like it because of it's freedom, in this case lack of regulations or not respected some of them is OK So, as you probably understand, the crysis is organised as well as everything else here. The day I can't buy rice around the corner when I am in hurry (because it's prohibited), I leave

[Bagwan]

To quote Oliver Cromwell' words on dismissing the Long Parliament, later to be borrowed by Leo Amery in castigating Neville Chamberlain,

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Think on, Yingluck.

[animatic]

To quote Oliver Cromwell' words on dismissing the Long Parliament, later to be borrowed by Leo Amery in castigating Neville Chamberlain,

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Think on, Yingluck.

Spot on, Mr. B.

[JAG]

To quote Oliver Cromwell' words on dismissing the Long Parliament, later to be borrowed by Leo Amery in castigating Neville Chamberlain,

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Think on, Yingluck.

Ironical. Cromwell was a military dictator! Whose rule was almost universally detested.

Edited October 22, 2011 by JAG

[Siam Simon]

To quote Oliver Cromwell' words on dismissing the Long Parliament, later to be borrowed by Leo Amery in castigating Neville Chamberlain,

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Think on, Yingluck.

Ironical. Cromwell was a military dictator! Whose rule was almost universally detested.

[endure]

To quote Oliver Cromwell' words on dismissing the Long Parliament, later to be borrowed by Leo Amery in castigating Neville Chamberlain,

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Think on, Yingluck.

Cromwell was mai sanuk mak mak. The Thais simply would not understand him.

[scorecard]

It is also reported elsewhere (including English language unmentionable one) that the military do not want an SOE as they are worried they will take the blame if or when it all falls apart as they dont see any way anyone can fight such a force of nature. So the government dont and military dont, so no story bar poltical games by others. It would be good to stop such games at a time of crisis but unlikley to happen

But you don't mention that the pupeteer will have no doubt told his clone that allowing the military to win some brownie points doesn't help his overall long-term objectives.

- Could make the military look very humanitarian and therefore water down suggestions that they are just killers as suggested (a million times) by the pupeteer, the red thugs,amsterdam, etc etc.

- The military are actually nice guys who always have the best interests of Thailand and Thai people at the forefront of their actions whatever they do.

Again, the selfish pupeteeer, who surrounded his very inexperienced very unprepared little sister with a gang of totally incapable, totally insincere ministers (read leeches), who have contributed nothing of value in trying to manage the enormous problems brought with this years floods and none of them have contributed (not ever, not only since they have become ministers) to the pupeteers' claims of full quality democracy, equal justice for all all, no double standards.

And before you say it - no, yingluck did not cause the floods, and yes every government since time began should have developed policies, taken actions to ensure that such severe floods can be managed much better than we are currently seeing.

[JAG]

- The military are actually nice guys who always have the best interests of Thailand and Thai people at the forefront of their actions whatever they do.

[Siam Simon]

- The military are actually nice guys who always have the best interests of Thailand and Thai people at the forefront of their actions whatever they do.

Double

.

[animatic]

God help T, if the populace finds out that

the army is just like any other bunch of Thais,

but more organized and get things done.

[jayboy]

e]

Cromwell was mai sanuk mak mak. The Thais simply would not understand him.

He wasn't much appreciated by the Irish either.

[jayboy]

But you don't mention that the pupeteer will have no doubt told his clone that allowing the military to win some brownie points doesn't help his overall long-term objectives.

- Could make the military look very humanitarian and therefore water down suggestions that they are just killers as suggested (a million times) by the pupeteer, the red thugs,amsterdam, etc etc.

- The military are actually nice guys who always have the best interests of Thailand and Thai people at the forefront of their actions whatever they do.

Again, the selfish pupeteeer, who surrounded his very inexperienced very unprepared little sister with a gang of totally incapable, totally insincere ministers (read leeches), who have contributed nothing of value in trying to manage the enormous problems brought with this years floods and none of them have contributed (not ever, not only since they have become ministers) to the pupeteers' claims of full quality democracy, equal justice for all all, no double standards.

Ignoring the childish language, there is in fact a bit of a puzzle about the relatively few numbers of army personnel involved in the flood relief exercise.As a comment on the NM site puts it

"Another very odd circumstance ... is that out of an Army of 300,000 plus, only 20 to 40,000 soldiers were mobilized to do flood work. What are all the other soldiers doing? There’s no imminent danger from Burma, Laos or Cambodia. Are they all providing security for BKK condos and shopping centers and military owned niteclubs? Where are all the motorized watercraft the military has? Why aren’t they out in the flooded areas? Where are the helicopters? Why aren’t there 200,000 soldiers helping? Where is the Thai Navy and their small boats?"