Thai PM Steps Up Control: Flood Crisis

[webfact]

PM steps up control

The Nation

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday overrode the mandate of the city administration by invoking the disaster law to take over the supervision of flood control and drainage in Bangkok.

Under Article 31 of the 2550 Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act, the central government has in effect sidelined the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration in terms of dealing with floods.

"The written order as mandated by the disaster law would be clear for all relevant agencies to comply with in uniformity, such as the issue of opening sluice gates to regulate the water flow," Yingluck said.

Before issuing the disaster warning for Bangkok, she chaired a highlevel meeting to assess the situation, particularly the runoff heading toward the capital. Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

The government and city administration must work jointly in regulating the water flow via sluice gates, she said.

As for contaminated water flowing into the canal reserved for the production of tap water, she said this was because a dyke had broken down and that she had instructed the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority to speed up its repair.

She has also given the military the job of guarding the dykes at two critical areas - Khlong Hok Wa and Lak Hok in Pathum Thani - believed to be the last flood barriers before the runoffs reach the capital.

The military and concerned agencies should step up floodcontrol measures to protect key installations like the Grand Palace, Siriraj Hospital as well as Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports, she said.

The Transport Ministry would be in charge of ensuring uninterrupted traffic on key roads, tollways and the mass transit system, she said, adding that related agencies should ensure that there is an adequate supply of essential goods.

She also voiced concerns that a large number of flood victims were still waiting to be rescued in Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani. Yingluck has also told state officials to find additional areas for shelter and parking spaces.

Reacting to Sukhumbhand's call to stop the waterworks canal or Khlong Prapa from overflowing, she said the central government and the city administration should act as one instead of playing the blame game. The canal is located just outside the city's jurisdiction.

The government stands ready to help the city and likewise, the city administration should try to look beyond its boundary and work with the central authorities to solve the overall situation, she said.

Yingluck said she still believes that enforcing the emergency decree at this juncture would not improve the situation. On the contrary, she said, emergency rule might undermine the confidence of investors.

In reaction to the prime minister's latest moves, Sukhumbhand said he had no objections because this would make his job easier, adding that he was ready to cooperate with the central government in trying to overcome the floods.

Meanwhile, Army chief General Prayuth Chanocha yesterday encouraged the government to impose the state of emergency in order to strengthen the power of its Flood Relief Operation Centre and help it deal with the worsening flood situation.

However, he said the emergency law could not be strictly imposed against residents suffering from severe floods. "Fully enforcing the law might lead to confrontations between officials and residents or between the government and citizens, though enforcing the law would be beneficial," he said.

When asked about some politicians' speculation that declaring emergency would lead to a military coup, the Army chief responded by asking if there was anyone in the armed forces "stupid enough" to stage a coup at this time of disaster.

"They should focus on helping the people as much as possible. Politics and the military are not related. My appeal is that no accusations should be made to upset soldiers who are working hard [to help with the flood situation]," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-10-22

[webfact]

Bangkokians must do their part, now

The Nation

There is one painful fact at this stage of the flood disaster: The waters need to pass through Bangkok as fast as possible to ease the suffering of people in other flooded areas.

The need to give the capital the best protection available is understandable, but it is being overwhelmed by other urgencies. Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani have been virtually knocked out by ravaging floods. Ayutthaya remains unconscious. Other provinces such as Nakhon Sawan or Angthong are still inundated and see little hope of quick recovery.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday invoked the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act to give her greater leverage when dealing with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration. Her flood relief centre's conflict with the BMA has been in plain sight over the past few days, a situation compounded by problems or outright fighting among local politicians or officials. However, this is the worst time to let politics get in the way, so the situation is simple: Bangkok has to make some sacrifices now, not only as a payback but also for its own good.

To put it in straight language, if some parts of Bangkok have to be flooded so the waters can move faster towards the sea, then so be it. It's the government's and the BMA's job to decide which areas to protect. Being the centre of government and the economy, Bangkok is the location of important places. Having said that, now is the time for all Bangkokians to be prepared to get their feet wet.

Simple calculations tell everyone that if Bangkok is to be kept dry at all costs, the suffering outside the capital and the remote provinces will last longer. That will be very bad for everybody, including the alreadystressed Bangkokians. This is not to mention the possibility of conflicting interests between those who are suffering and those who are not erupting in violence.

Bad politics at all levels is the last thing Thailand needs now. The cooperation between the government and the BMA and understanding between the government and Bangkokians must begin now, before the issue of who mismanaged dam waters and who was responsible for a huge amount of flood waters being trapped outside the city becomes more politicised than it currently is.

Even if the painful "surgery" means some parts of the capital will be under water for several weeks, it must be carried out sooner rather than later.

-- The Nation 2011-10-22

[webfact]

Powers and limitations of Disaster Act

The Nation

The Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act of 2007 is the key law empowering Interior Ministry's Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation and provincial administrations to tackle natural calamities.

In past cases of disaster, provincial governors were the main enforcers of the law.

Under extreme circumstances, Article 31 prescribes for the prime minister to intervene and override local governments, including the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, to mitigate the disaster.

By issuing a disaster warning for the capital, the central government aims to take control of the city's sluice gates to coordinate flood control and drain run-off into the sea via eastern Bangkok.

The act has a more limited mandate than the emergency decree. The disaster provisions apply mainly to civilian officials and the prime minister is obligated to issue a separate order to involve the military in flood control.

-- The Nation 2011-10-22

[whybother]

As usual with the government's dealings with these floods. TOO LATE.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

United?

[ginjag]

As usual with the government's dealings with these floods. TOO LATE.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

United?

Absolutely --........All the comments made by the P.m. seems to be after events rather than PRIOR. Most of these are panic rather than calculated. Too many useless comments, the man in the street has better Ideas. This outrageous comment I will make is in general (not all) the waters ought to have been left alone and run their own way there would have been less depth, and easier to wipe up aftermath.

[scotbeve]

As usual with the government's dealings with these floods. TOO LATE.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

United?

I may get my hand slapped again by one of the moderators but IMHO this article which is factual and non-biased should be read by all.... http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3874&Itemid=392

[phiphidon]

As usual with the government's dealings with these floods. TOO LATE.

Yingluck said she wanted to ensure that all agencies are united where tackling the runoff is concerned, because successfully diverting the water to drain into the sea via east Bangkok would hinge on all relevant agencies moving in a concerted effort.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra was notably absent.

United?

Precisely, in another thread the dear sainted Governor is asking for FROC to take control of the flood gates - unfortunately this was a day after Yingluck used the Disaster Laws to take over from HIM - it seems as though he has been more of a hindrance than a help with his "The MBA can control Bangkok flooding"calls..................

[rixalex]

I may get my hand slapped again by one of the moderators but IMHO this article which is factual and non-biased should be read by all.... http://www.asiasenti...3874&Itemid=392

I agree. It's a good article.

I think, as it suggests, there are two main issues here. One is the issue of what has brought about these floods, and that lies with administrations dating back to the year dot, not just this one that has been in power five minutes, and then there is the issue of how the flood has been managed, how decisions have been made, how information has been given to the public, how relief has been distributed. It is with this second issue that Yingluck and the current government has largely failed, but present this view to a red sympathiser, and by way of a counter argument, all you get is that she is not responsible for the first issue, which of course is no counter-argument at all, because nobody is saying that she is. Classic strawman.

[scotbeve]

I may get my hand slapped again by one of the moderators but IMHO this article which is factual and non-biased should be read by all.... http://www.asiasenti...3874&Itemid=392

I agree. It's a good article.

I think, as it suggests, there are two main issues here. One is the issue of what has brought about these floods, and that lies with administrations dating back to the year dot, not just this one that has been in power five minutes, and then there is the issue of how the flood has been managed, how decisions have been made, how information has been given to the public, how relief has been distributed. It is with this second issue that Yingluck and the current government has largely failed, but present this view to a red sympathiser, and by way of a counter argument, all you get is that she is not responsible for the first issue, which of course is no counter-argument at all, because nobody is saying that she is. Classic strawman.

Indeed.... doesn't matter what "party" or walk of life one comes form or is in. What matters is that one person take the reins, tell the others to shut their traps when being obstructive, demand results by using fear management (as in threatening to firing idiots), and stand up to the firing line when it happens - and it will. Respect, responsibility, and accountability are foremost with the mass relief that is required. There was no way to stop this water - NO WAY. See satellite pics from space!

[rixalex]

Precisely, in another thread the dear sainted Governor is asking for FROC to take control of the flood gates - unfortunately this was a day after Yingluck used the Disaster Laws to take over from HIM - it seems as though he has been more of a hindrance than a help with his "The MBA can control Bangkok flooding"calls..................

All this is likely to do with Yingluck and PTP seeing all the positive press Sukhumband was getting for the way he was showing some leadership skills - something that has been sorely lacking over the last few weeks from all quarters, i'm sure you agree - and them feeling outdone by this and in need of a way of putting him in his place.

[phiphidon]

Precisely, in another thread the dear sainted Governor is asking for FROC to take control of the flood gates - unfortunately this was a day after Yingluck used the Disaster Laws to take over from HIM - it seems as though he has been more of a hindrance than a help with his "The MBA can control Bangkok flooding"calls..................

All this is likely to do with Yingluck and PTP seeing all the positive press Sukhumband was getting for the way he was showing some leadership skills - something that has been sorely lacking over the last few weeks from all quarters, i'm sure you agree - and them feeling outdone by this and in need of a way of putting him in his place.

Well, not quite, what I see is the Governor telling FROC that he has it under control, just keep on piling those sandbags, just a few more and in the meantime Bangkok remains dry as he has all the flood gates shut. The water has nowhere to go except through the normal drainage ways of Bangkok and is backing up behind the sandbags now and unsuprisingly breaks through. Industrial estates are lost. Meanwhile Bangkok remains dry and the Governor is praised because Bangkok is dry, He has it under control until a couple of days ago and then he says he can't do any more. The need to open the flood gates is immediately apparent and they tell him to do so. Gates are opened and then closed. <deleted>. CROC finally loses patience with the sainted Governor and takes over. He hits the Media and trys to make it look like he has asked for them to do so. A few other fluff pieces about how he was only doing his best and with a sly smile he slinks into the background counting his votes as he goes....................

[rixalex]

Precisely, in another thread the dear sainted Governor is asking for FROC to take control of the flood gates - unfortunately this was a day after Yingluck used the Disaster Laws to take over from HIM - it seems as though he has been more of a hindrance than a help with his "The MBA can control Bangkok flooding"calls..................

All this is likely to do with Yingluck and PTP seeing all the positive press Sukhumband was getting for the way he was showing some leadership skills - something that has been sorely lacking over the last few weeks from all quarters, i'm sure you agree - and them feeling outdone by this and in need of a way of putting him in his place.

Well, not quite, what I see is the Governor telling FROC that he has it under control, just keep on piling those sandbags, just a few more and in the meantime Bangkok remains dry as he has all the flood gates shut. The water has nowhere to go except through the normal drainage ways of Bangkok and is backing up behind the sandbags now and unsuprisingly breaks through. Industrial estates are lost. Meanwhile Bangkok remains dry and the Governor is praised because Bangkok is dry, He has it under control until a couple of days ago and then he says he can't do any more. The need to open the flood gates is immediately apparent and they tell him to do so. Gates are opened and then closed. <deleted>. CROC finally loses patience with the sainted Governor and takes over. He hits the Media and trys to make it look like he has asked for them to do so. A few other fluff pieces about how he was only doing his best and with a sly smile he slinks into the background counting his votes as he goes....................

Just as well then that Yingluck has decided to take control. Someone who really knows how to take charge of a situation and get things done, not flap about aimlessly shedding the odd tear. Panic over. Bangkok can rest easy.

[ETatBKK]

these days, I learnt well from the government announcement ! I just apply the Murphy's Law ( anything can go wrong, it will ) on their subjects, then that is my preparation list !!

- Bangkok will not flood

- water supply won't be disturbed

- electricity is not a problem

- internet connection always available

did I mention about FOOD yet ?

[phiphidon]

Precisely, in another thread the dear sainted Governor is asking for FROC to take control of the flood gates - unfortunately this was a day after Yingluck used the Disaster Laws to take over from HIM - it seems as though he has been more of a hindrance than a help with his "The MBA can control Bangkok flooding"calls..................

All this is likely to do with Yingluck and PTP seeing all the positive press Sukhumband was getting for the way he was showing some leadership skills - something that has been sorely lacking over the last few weeks from all quarters, i'm sure you agree - and them feeling outdone by this and in need of a way of putting him in his place.

Well, not quite, what I see is the Governor telling FROC that he has it under control, just keep on piling those sandbags, just a few more and in the meantime Bangkok remains dry as he has all the flood gates shut. The water has nowhere to go except through the normal drainage ways of Bangkok and is backing up behind the sandbags now and unsuprisingly breaks through. Industrial estates are lost. Meanwhile Bangkok remains dry and the Governor is praised because Bangkok is dry, He has it under control until a couple of days ago and then he says he can't do any more. The need to open the flood gates is immediately apparent and they tell him to do so. Gates are opened and then closed. <deleted>. CROC finally loses patience with the sainted Governor and takes over. He hits the Media and trys to make it look like he has asked for them to do so. A few other fluff pieces about how he was only doing his best and with a sly smile he slinks into the background counting his votes as he goes....................

Just as well then that Yingluck has decided to take control. Someone who really knows how to take charge of a situation and get things done, not flap about aimlessly shedding the odd tear. Panic over. Bangkok can rest easy.

Maybe the job would have been a bit easier if she didn't have the BMA and the Governor playing politics when she is relying on input from others...........

[elgato]

In the first photo it looks as though they're watching tv. Any guesses what they're watching?

[rogerdee123]

In the first photo it looks as though they're watching tv. Any guesses what they're watching?

One of those TV dramas with the Luk Krung actors.

[rixalex]

Maybe the job would have been a bit easier if she didn't have the BMA and the Governor playing politics when she is relying on input from others...........

I guess a good start would be if she could rely on her own input and that of those she Thaksin placed around her. Alas...

[rubl]

Well, not quite, what I see is the Governor telling FROC that he has it under control, just keep on piling those sandbags, just a few more and in the meantime Bangkok remains dry as he has all the flood gates shut. The water has nowhere to go except through the normal drainage ways of Bangkok and is backing up behind the sandbags now and unsuprisingly breaks through. Industrial estates are lost. Meanwhile Bangkok remains dry and the Governor is praised because Bangkok is dry, He has it under control until a couple of days ago and then he says he can't do any more. The need to open the flood gates is immediately apparent and they tell him to do so. Gates are opened and then closed. <deleted>. CROC finally loses patience with the sainted Governor and takes over. He hits the Media and trys to make it look like he has asked for them to do so. A few other fluff pieces about how he was only doing his best and with a sly smile he slinks into the background counting his votes as he goes....................

Just as well then that Yingluck has decided to take control. Someone who really knows how to take charge of a situation and get things done, not flap about aimlessly shedding the odd tear. Panic over. Bangkok can rest easy.

Maybe the job would have been a bit easier if she didn't have the BMA and the Governor playing politics when she is relying on input from others...........

The BMA and it's governor are responsible for Bangkok. That has nothing to do with politics, but with responsibility. Now the responsibility has been partially shifted to the FROC because of the 'disaster law' being called into effect. Let's work on it and stop implying at every turn that politics is involved. Keep in mind that the water is totally impartial in this!

Edited October 22, 2011 by rubl

[rogerdee123]

I am reminded of one of my first Asian disasters years (decades) ago when Manila was badly flooded. Some foreign Govt donated emergency food rations in water-proof prepackaging. Imelda Marcos had all the packages opened up and inserted with a note saying ... "this is a gift from Imelda Marcos". However the opening of the packaging caused the contents to spoil and when it was finally distributed it was inedible ..... the Filipino people and all those who were trying to help people were utterly disgusted by this incident which kind of underlined the thoughtlessness and disregard the Govt had for them ..... and then some time later came the "people power" revolution (yellow was their color BTW) which ousted the Marcos clan ....

When I see these FROC guys on TV handing out food packages or passing sandbags, we all know they probably stepped into the TV limelight for a couple of minutes to get themselves on TV and play the role of savior or whatever ....

Food for thought ....

[thaicbr]

Well the BKK governors job was to protect Bkk.. Yinglucks job was to make him look bad.... both succeeded, up to a point. Just because Yingluck did a statement saying Froc has control, it does not mean that they ACTUALLY have control until THEY come up with sensible ideas. As many people have said to little to late. and now the shit hits the fan.

personally i would not believe what comes out of FROC as being true..much of it has been complete bullshit.

[phiphidon]

The BMA and it's governor are responsible for Bangkok. That has nothing to do with politics, but with responsibility. Now the responsibility has been partially shifted to the FROC because of the 'disaster law' being called into effect. Let's work on it and stop implying at every turn that politics is involved. Keep in mind that the water is totally impartial in this!

For any posters that are really interested in the complexities of situation (as opposed to those throwing out tired "they're all incompetent" cliches) you may want to take a while reading this UNESCO report on the Chao Praya River Basin which discusses the historic (and contemporary) relationships of the huge amount of departments and laws that govern / hinder water management.

For Example

Existing water laws;

Thailand has at least thirty water-related laws, administered by over thirty departments overseeing water issues in eight ministries.

Like water policies, the mass of water laws, codes and instructions have all been framed for particular and usually singular purposes. There is no umbrella legislation linking these laws and codes, and consequently there is no legislative backing for an organization to undertake IWRM. In practice, this results in ad hoc and often erratic relationships among all agencies, as the agencies pursue their narrow objectives and mandates and seem more interested in enhancing water supply to meet the demands of politically powerful groups.

Unesco Report Chao Praya

Who knows it might even persuade some posters to wind their necks in before endlessly repeating their favourite litany..............

[rubl]

The BMA and it's governor are responsible for Bangkok. That has nothing to do with politics, but with responsibility. Now the responsibility has been partially shifted to the FROC because of the 'disaster law' being called into effect. Let's work on it and stop implying at every turn that politics is involved. Keep in mind that the water is totally impartial in this!

For any posters that are really interested in the complexities of situation (as opposed to those throwing out tired "they're all incompetent" cliches) you may want to take a while reading this UNESCO report on the Chao Praya River Basin which discusses the historic (and contemporary) relationships of the huge amount of departments and laws that govern / hinder water management.

For Example

Existing water laws;

Thailand has at least thirty water-related laws, administered by over thirty departments overseeing water issues in eight ministries.

Like water policies, the mass of water laws, codes and instructions have all been framed for particular and usually singular purposes. There is no umbrella legislation linking these laws and codes, and consequently there is no legislative backing for an organization to undertake IWRM. In practice, this results in ad hoc and often erratic relationships among all agencies, as the agencies pursue their narrow objectives and mandates and seem more interested in enhancing water supply to meet the demands of politically powerful groups.

Unesco Report Chao Praya

Who knows it might even persuade some posters to wind their necks in before endlessly repeating their favourite litany..............

Didn't stop you though

Being pragmatic I'd say, first get this '2011 deluge' problem worked on, solved. Next set up a commission which studies and recommends on water management, another commission which studies water laws and tries to put the water management proposal into a legal framework. Involve foreign experts in the water management study. Report within 6 - 12 months. Take another 6 months for political and public discussions. Then follows the difficult part: a government to show backbone and courage to make (most likely) unpopular decisions.

[rixalex]

Existing water laws;

Thailand has at least thirty water-related laws, administered by over thirty departments overseeing water issues in eight ministries.

Like water policies, the mass of water laws, codes and instructions have all been framed for particular and usually singular purposes. There is no umbrella legislation linking these laws and codes, and consequently there is no legislative backing for an organization to undertake IWRM. In practice, this results in ad hoc and often erratic relationships among all agencies, as the agencies pursue their narrow objectives and mandates and seem more interested in enhancing water supply to meet the demands of politically powerful groups.

The myriad of policies, laws, codes and instructions, is precisely why the country was crying out for the people at the top, like Yingluck, to take a firm hand on things and act quickly and decisively. They are the people, the only people, in a position to oversee everything, and intervene and instruct when necessary, and when things aren't working. Why i am telling you all this though, i don't know, as it is clear you have no interest whatsoever in examining the job the government is doing. I can of course appreciate why.

[phiphidon]

Existing water laws;

Thailand has at least thirty water-related laws, administered by over thirty departments overseeing water issues in eight ministries.

Like water policies, the mass of water laws, codes and instructions have all been framed for particular and usually singular purposes. There is no umbrella legislation linking these laws and codes, and consequently there is no legislative backing for an organization to undertake IWRM. In practice, this results in ad hoc and often erratic relationships among all agencies, as the agencies pursue their narrow objectives and mandates and seem more interested in enhancing water supply to meet the demands of politically powerful groups.

The myriad of policies, laws, codes and instructions, is precisely why the country was crying out for the people at the top, like Yingluck, to take a firm hand on things and act quickly and decisively. They are the people, the only people, in a position to oversee everything, and intervene and instruct when necessary, and when things aren't working. Why i am telling you all this though, i don't know, as it is clear you have no interest whatsoever in examining the job the government is doing. I can of course appreciate why.

I don't disagree with you about taking a firm hand quickly. Abhisit was just as lax during last years flash floods, until Ch3 Presenters giving out food parcels shamed him in to getting on and doing something. He had similar difficulties getting departments working together. He was similarly late in setting up a flood control centre. The difference is that Yingluck too relied upon local beauraucrats to do their job vis a vis releasing dam waters etc. The difference in scale regarding the amount of rain falling has rendered that way of working as obsolete as we can see. My suspicion is that if Abhisit had reacted the same way as he did last year and getting the same feedback from the experts (not the science minister, I mean the Civil Servants whose permanent jobs are to deal with flood management )with the crisis that Yingluck is facing the end result would be remarkably similar.

That was the point of me suggesting people read the report - the old ways are doomed to fail, it's not incompetence, it's the failed Responsibility/Reporting "structure" in place that's the problem.

[rixalex]

I don't disagree with you about taking a firm hand quickly. Abhisit was just as lax during last years flash floods, until Ch3 Presenters giving out food parcels shamed him in to getting on and doing something. He had similar difficulties getting departments working together. He was similarly late in setting up a flood control centre. The difference is that Yingluck too relied upon local beauraucrats to do their job vis a vis releasing dam waters etc. The difference in scale regarding the amount of rain falling has rendered that way of working as obsolete as we can see. My suspicion is that if Abhisit had reacted the same way as he did last year and getting the same feedback from the experts (not the science minister, I mean the Civil Servants whose permanent jobs are to deal with flood management )with the crisis that Yingluck is facing the end result would be remarkably similar.

That was the point of me suggesting people read the report - the old ways are doomed to fail, it's not incompetence, it's the failed Responsibility/Reporting "structure" in place that's the problem.

If it is not refuting accusations that aren't being made (ie arguing that Yingluck isn't responsible for the floods occurring, which nobody is saying), it is arguing that others would have done an equally poor job. What a pitiful defence.

[jayboy]

If it is not refuting accusations that aren't being made (ie arguing that Yingluck isn't responsible for the floods occurring, which nobody is saying), it is arguing that others would have done an equally poor job. What a pitiful defence.

You seem very unhappy with any suggestion that the crisis has any cause beyond Yingluck's incompetence.If that what gets you (and one or two kindred spirits on the forum) off, so be it.

For a more grown up intelligent analysis of the politics involved see the article in yesterday's Guardian (UK)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/21/thailand-floods-bangkok?INTCMP=SRCH

[rixalex]

If it is not refuting accusations that aren't being made (ie arguing that Yingluck isn't responsible for the floods occurring, which nobody is saying), it is arguing that others would have done an equally poor job. What a pitiful defence.

You seem very unhappy with any suggestion that the crisis has any cause beyond Yingluck's incompetence.If that what gets you (and one or two kindred spirits on the forum) off, so be it.

For a more grown up intelligent analysis of the politics involved see the article in yesterday's Guardian (UK)

http://www.guardian....kok?INTCMP=SRCH

Already read it thanks. Agree, it's a good read.

How many more times does it need to be said, that nobody is accusing Yingluck of causing the flood? It's even stated in the post you quoted.

How about actually reading what people are saying, before making your usual tired snide insinuations about their intelligence? Just a thought...

You seem very unhappy with any of the focus turning from how this happened (surely a discussion that can wait until after it is all over), to how it is being managed. As i said to one of your kindred spirits, i can of course appreciate why you are so keen to divert attention.

Edited October 22, 2011 by rixalex

[slapout]

The mark of any good manager/leader is surrounding themselves with competent/knowledgeable people, delegating tasks which they are capable of handling, preparing plans for individual/partial failure, monitoring/correcting mistakes that are made, use contingency plans when/where needed, etc, so that the end result is acceptable to the majority of that managers supporters.

The flood waters hitting Bangkok started at the northern end of the drainage basin 6+ weeks ago, numerous lakes and rivers have gradually filled to capaci8ty and then overflowed in the sequence. Seemly there has been a breakdown in the system in several areas. Blame can/will be pointed at the bureaucracy, individual in charge of flood gates, pitiful attempts at building temporary barriers, lack of manpower/equipment, and on and on in a never ending circle.

Any competent manager/leader will have familiarized themselves with the strengths and weakness of the company/country they want to lead, and how best to use the strengths, work with the weakness until they are eliminated, prior to assuming the leadership role. Hopefully a lot of Thai citizens and those forming this and future governments will take this into account rather quickly.

[jayboy]

You seem very unhappy with any of the focus turning from how this happened (surely a discussion that can wait until after it is all over), to how it is being managed. As i said to one of your kindred spirits, i can of course appreciate why you are so keen to divert attention.

Actually you are wrong on this.I welcome discussion of how this crisis has been managed.I do dislike bile and hatred for political point scoring purposes when the country is facing a major crisis.

To be fair, re-reading my last post, I could be interpreted as including you in that grisly little band.That would be incorrect and I apologise for that.

On a different tack I see the Bangkok mayor is receiving a lot of praise from some members.I think the jury is still out on whether that is deserved.On this and on much else, as you suggest, there needs to be a discussion later on.

[rixalex]

Actually you are wrong on this.I welcome discussion of how this crisis has been managed.I do dislike bile and hatred for political point scoring purposes when the country is facing a major crisis.

Problem of course being, that one man's reasoned and well justified criticism of government action, or inaction as the case may be, may well be another man's bile and hatred for political point scoring purposes. Personally, my feeling is, were people trying to blame Yingluck for the flood itself, that would be daft and fall into the category you mention. But i haven't seen any of that. What i have seen is criticism of how information is being given to the public, how flood water is managed, and how relief is organised. Now to me, all those areas have been dealt with poorly, and deserve due criticism.

On a different tack I see the Bangkok mayor is receiving a lot of praise from some members.I think the jury is still out on whether that is deserved.On this and on much else, as you suggest, there needs to be a discussion later on.

I think what impressed some people about the Bangkok mayor, was that whether or not he was making the right decisions, he was seen to be making them, and making them decisively. After all the dithering and jumping from one contradicting statement to the next, it was refreshing. That's all. Let's just say, the bar had been set low enough, that it didn't take much for someone to leap above it.