Bangkok Governor Urges FROC To Take Charge

[bkkjames]

Got another sms from FROC aka Croc, something about hours of operation 8am-9pm I guess, no thai font on phone so no comprende.

[Arkady]

Got another sms from FROC aka Croc, something about hours of operation 8am-9pm I guess, no thai font on phone so no comprende.

This is message I received from FROC.

ขอเชิญจิตอาสาช่วยกันแพคของที่ศปภ.ดอนเมืองชั้น 18.00-21.00น.ทุกวัน

"We are appealing for volunteers to do packing at FROC on 1st floor, Don Muang 18.00-21.00 daily." My own translation.

At first I thought it was an evacuation order but that will probably never come.

[qualtrough]

Thinking about it a bit more in a slightly more impartial way, I'd say the PM's actions amount to treason.

Did what Thailand's enemies have been unable to do this century.

It is only hard to see because she has a Thai face and Thai name.

Yes, it is really hard to see. Help us out though by listing the things you think she has done for Thailand's enemies, backing it up with facts, figures, and citations. Also, please let us know who Thailand's enemies are too. Amazing she could accomplish all that in two months while the rest of the world can't see it.

[Arkady]

Thinking about it a bit more in a slightly more impartial way, I'd say the PM's actions amount to treason.

Did what Thailand's enemies have been unable to do this century.

It is only hard to see because she has a Thai face and Thai name.

Thai face??

[rubl]

Got another sms from FROC aka Croc, something about hours of operation 8am-9pm I guess, no thai font on phone so no comprende.

This is message I received from FROC.

ขอเชิญจิตอาสาช่วยกันแพคของที่ศปภ.ดอนเมืองชั้น 18.00-21.00น.ทุกวัน

"We are appealing for volunteers to do packing at FROC on 1st floor, Don Muang 18.00-21.00 daily." My own translation.

At first I thought it was an evacuation order but that will probably never come.

Interesting:

Posted Today, 19:45

BKK govnr: Flood water frm Rangsit canal has reached National Memorial. Water is likely to hit FROC in Don Muang soon @nnanews #thaifloodeng

[GazR]

Isn't this the same man who tried to score political points earlier by saying Bangkok was safe in his hands and he wanted nothing from the Government? But that was before he opened his eyes and faced reality.

Now let's hear from all the PTP-bashers about lack of foresight, etc.,etc.

If by the emotive term "PTP-bashers" you mean those constantly criticizing the PTP then that includes IMO about 90% of the 'old hands' posting on TVF -

i.e. those who generally know what they're talking about: So don't worry too much, it's probably just a stage you're going through.

As they say, 'There's a reason for everything' (but it's not because we're getting money from Chieng Mai).

Edited October 22, 2011 by GazR

[GazR]

Isn't this the same man who tried to score political points earlier by saying Bangkok was safe in his hands and he wanted nothing from the Government? But that was before he opened his eyes and faced reality.

Now let's hear from all the PTP-bashers about lack of foresight, etc.,etc.

You seem to suffer from the same collective amnesia that afflicts so many other rabid red shirts-

Bangkokians have much more faith in the intelligence, communication and problem solving skills of governor Sukhumband than they do in the clowns who make up the Flood Relief Operations Center aka FROC.

When FROC "Science" Minister Plodprasop started issuing false evacuation alerts it was governor Sukhumband who spoke up and told Bangkokians to ignore the idiots at the FROC and trust him for ACCURATE news on the Bangkok flood situation.

Since that time the FROC has continued to make a complete mess fo things and clearly has no clue what they are doing, yet the PM decided to invoke Article 31 of the Disaster Prevention Mitigation Bill which requires all government agencies to answer to FROC.

Clearly a politically motivated decision- Rather than allow Democrat governor Sukhumband to continue his SUCCESSFUL management of the Bangkok flood crisis the PM now places direction of the BMA under the FROC.

Fortunately Bangkokians aren't as thick as the easily duped Red kwai. We see once again that the clone PM (or the one that holds the clone's strings) prefers to play politics rather than put the most qualified and experienced people in charge of resolving the ongoing flood crisis.

The Army and Bangkok Governor Sukhumband have received a lot of praise for their handling of the floods in Bangkok. The PM and her FROC have been widely criticized for their continued incompetence and mismanagement.

Bangkok is doing ok so far, but with the FROC in charge it's anyone's guess what happens next.

You know too much already.

[animatic]

I agree Siampolee.

Sukhumband has been the only one to emerge with any credit.

+1 so far

+ another 1

He's had a "Fine, you do it then" moment, and I can't say I blame him.

Brought on by repeated request for things that needed doing and falling on deaf ears or filtered through utterly incompetent minds.

Her has done what he could, but if letting some fool gain face by letting him win a dick measuring contest saves the lives of some Bangkok citizens, then he will let the fool win the day, but no doubt lose the war.

He is the only one to consistently show some mettle and action in all this, but he is only human and must have some limits.

Edited October 22, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

He had his control of BKK water management removed yesterday by the PM, so what is he on about apart from poltical games?

The central government are obviously rersponding to all the calls for BKK gates to be opened which Sukhumband wanted to resist or limit. Without the disaster decree the BKK water gates remained directly under his control. BKK is going to take a hit as the government responds to national concern while Sukhumband wanted to manage this to respond to his local concerned constituents.

By the way, I had a nice chat to a few PAD guys in Chonburi on the politics surrounding the floods. They seem to think every decision is poltical and are scathing of PTP and Dems and see absolutely no change in poltical alignments or voting intention after the floods, whihc is interesting

I would guess he has in essence said, you want it, fine you do it now, and here's places you missed, but you will not succeed in blaming me later for what you screw up from now on.

I don't blame him a bit.

Edited October 22, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

The FROC will continue to politically bumble along.

Decision making by committees of vested interests,

political hacks or cross invested egos, rarely govern

efficiently. Least of all when fast thoughtful decisions

MUST be the order of the day.

In Nam the FROC leaders would have likely been

FRAGGED by their own men for incompetence.

Saddest part of this PTP Reddened Government decision making is that the worst damage from their decisions will fall right on those who are their main constituencies, hoping beyond hope for a better deal, and now getting driven from their homes because vested interests needed things done their way first.

And of course the Red Leaders are doing their best to spin the blame away.

Maybe THIS one will be TOO BIG A FAIL to hide in plain view,.

Edited October 22, 2011 by animatic

[marquess]

I wonder how long that Prabasorb guy will last if floods persist in BKK for another month! Both he and Yingluck might have to do sometime in the stocks.

[hanuman1]

He had his control of BKK water management removed yesterday by the PM, so what is he on about apart from poltical games?

The central government are obviously rersponding to all the calls for BKK gates to be opened which Sukhumband wanted to resist or limit. Without the disaster decree the BKK water gates remained directly under his control. BKK is going to take a hit as the government responds to national concern while Sukhumband wanted to manage this to respond to his local concerned constituents.

By the way, I had a nice chat to a few PAD guys in Chonburi on the politics surrounding the floods. They seem to think every decision is poltical and are scathing of PTP and Dems and see absolutely no change in poltical alignments or voting intention after the floods, whihc is interesting

I would guess he has in essence said, you want it, fine you do it now, and here's places you missed, but you will not succeed in blaming me later for what you screw up from now on.

I don't blame him a bit.

If the opening of Bangkok's water gates results in relatively light flooding inn Bangkok, and effectively drains the north-east/west areas that have been flooded for a couple of weeks already, people will be saying why they weren't opened weeks ago.

I agree that Sukhumband has probably done his job pretty well, but the result of doing his job well is the flooding they've had outside BKK. This would suggest the thing to have done would have been to relieve him of his water-management responsibilities at an earlier time, avoiding most of the serious flooding that has occurred outside the city. And that would have been the responsibility of the PM, sure, although it would probably have been quite an unpopular step to take at that time.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's how it seems as far as I can tell.

[Arkady]

He had his control of BKK water management removed yesterday by the PM, so what is he on about apart from poltical games?

The central government are obviously rersponding to all the calls for BKK gates to be opened which Sukhumband wanted to resist or limit. Without the disaster decree the BKK water gates remained directly under his control. BKK is going to take a hit as the government responds to national concern while Sukhumband wanted to manage this to respond to his local concerned constituents.

By the way, I had a nice chat to a few PAD guys in Chonburi on the politics surrounding the floods. They seem to think every decision is poltical and are scathing of PTP and Dems and see absolutely no change in poltical alignments or voting intention after the floods, whihc is interesting

I would guess he has in essence said, you want it, fine you do it now, and here's places you missed, but you will not succeed in blaming me later for what you screw up from now on.

I don't blame him a bit.

If the opening of Bangkok's water gates results in relatively light flooding inn Bangkok, and effectively drains the north-east/west areas that have been flooded for a couple of weeks already, people will be saying why they weren't opened weeks ago.

I agree that Sukhumband has probably done his job pretty well, but the result of doing his job well is the flooding they've had outside BKK. This would suggest the thing to have done would have been to relieve him of his water-management responsibilities at an earlier time, avoiding most of the serious flooding that has occurred outside the city. And that would have been the responsibility of the PM, sure, although it would probably have been quite an unpopular step to take at that time.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's how it seems as far as I can tell.

I think you are missing the fact that essential parts of Bangkok's flood protection lie outside the city limits in Patum Thani and Nakorn Pathom and that the government agreed with the BMA's strategy and tried rather belatedly to help finish the Bkk flood walls in those provinces. Also a lot of the water gates in the city, particularly in the semi rural districts in the East are controlled by the Irrigation Dept, not the BMA. Granted Thailand needs a national water management policy, not individual ones for each province that are incompatible. Nevertheless, I think that, given his limited powers and remit, Sukhumphand has done a reasonable job.

[Arkady]

I wonder how long that Prabasorb guy will last if floods persist in BKK for another month! Both he and Yingluck might have to do sometime in the stocks.

He might request a change of assignment and go back to selling Bengal tigers to China.

[hammered]

He had his control of BKK water management removed yesterday by the PM, so what is he on about apart from poltical games?

The central government are obviously rersponding to all the calls for BKK gates to be opened which Sukhumband wanted to resist or limit. Without the disaster decree the BKK water gates remained directly under his control. BKK is going to take a hit as the government responds to national concern while Sukhumband wanted to manage this to respond to his local concerned constituents.

By the way, I had a nice chat to a few PAD guys in Chonburi on the politics surrounding the floods. They seem to think every decision is poltical and are scathing of PTP and Dems and see absolutely no change in poltical alignments or voting intention after the floods, whihc is interesting

I would guess he has in essence said, you want it, fine you do it now, and here's places you missed, but you will not succeed in blaming me later for what you screw up from now on.

I don't blame him a bit.

If the opening of Bangkok's water gates results in relatively light flooding inn Bangkok, and effectively drains the north-east/west areas that have been flooded for a couple of weeks already, people will be saying why they weren't opened weeks ago.

I agree that Sukhumband has probably done his job pretty well, but the result of doing his job well is the flooding they've had outside BKK. This would suggest the thing to have done would have been to relieve him of his water-management responsibilities at an earlier time, avoiding most of the serious flooding that has occurred outside the city. And that would have been the responsibility of the PM, sure, although it would probably have been quite an unpopular step to take at that time.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's how it seems as far as I can tell.

How you see it is how a lot of people who have lost their homes see it, and I am not talking about red shirts or rural poor but middle class residents of Pathum Thani etc who cant understand why the BKK gates werent opened earlier but who do now know it was the BKK governor who made those decisions to protect his constituents

[animatic]

Not to mention that,

the initial and unrecoverable major errors took place weeks ago up country, and the lack of accurate information passed on nationally, left the Bangkok Gov. making the best decisions with inadequate information and status. Add to that the scatter shot regional controls of what constitues 'protecting Bangkok' is in the hands of assorted appointees in fear of their jobs going tits up any day, or new in their jobs and not having a clue. A lot of water was held illogically up country until it became intenable and was then released because of screaming for it to be done by villagers, and dams ready to burst. Suddenly this huge torrent is thrust upon the regions around Bangkok and their reporting to Bangkok Gov. was scattershot yet again.

It's been a logistical cock up since the beginning. Moving water; where when. Some or most erred on not moving it till there was no choice, or erred in not sending bad news up the power chain, and that's made the choices of those down stream needing Methuselah and Archimedean wisdom to decide.

[hanuman1]

Not to mention that,

the initial and unrecoverable major errors took place weeks ago up country, and the lack of accurate information passed on nationally, left the Bangkok Gov. making the best decisions with inadequate information and status. Add to that the scatter shot regional controls of what constitues 'protecting Bangkok' is in the hands of assorted appointees in fear of their jobs going tits up any day, or new in their jobs and not having a clue. A lot of water was held illogically up country until it became intenable and was then released because of screaming for it to be done by villagers, and dams ready to burst. Suddenly this huge torrent is thrust upon the regions around Bangkok and their reporting to Bangkok Gov. was scattershot yet again.

It's been a logistical cock up since the beginning. Moving water; where when. Some or most erred on not moving it till there was no choice, or erred in not sending bad news up the power chain, and that's made the choices of those down stream needing Methuselah and Archimedean wisdom to decide.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, apart from the fact that decisions of Archimedean wisdom are necessary for the managers of each dam in the country, not just for those downstream. My understanding is that the management of each dam upstream must balance the requirement of having enough water to mitigate potential drought conditions in future against the possibility of overflow. It looks like the overarching policy was to keep as much water back as possible to have it in reserve and of course it backfired with the unrelenting rains. It points to an 'all or nothing' approach, though, and one would have thought that incremental releases of water should have been possible, to keep water levels in the dams stable.

It suggests some kind of systemic problem whereby for some reason this incremental release of water over time was not implemented and I can't see how this is a political issue. Certainly it is a logistical cockup, but it points to the necessity of a more sophisticated way to manage water in the country which any government would do well to implement.

[hammered]

Not to mention that,

the initial and unrecoverable major errors took place weeks ago up country, and the lack of accurate information passed on nationally, left the Bangkok Gov. making the best decisions with inadequate information and status. Add to that the scatter shot regional controls of what constitues 'protecting Bangkok' is in the hands of assorted appointees in fear of their jobs going tits up any day, or new in their jobs and not having a clue. A lot of water was held illogically up country until it became intenable and was then released because of screaming for it to be done by villagers, and dams ready to burst. Suddenly this huge torrent is thrust upon the regions around Bangkok and their reporting to Bangkok Gov. was scattershot yet again.

It's been a logistical cock up since the beginning. Moving water; where when. Some or most erred on not moving it till there was no choice, or erred in not sending bad news up the power chain, and that's made the choices of those down stream needing Methuselah and Archimedean wisdom to decide.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, apart from the fact that decisions of Archimedean wisdom are necessary for the managers of each dam in the country, not just for those downstream. My understanding is that the management of each dam upstream must balance the requirement of having enough water to mitigate potential drought conditions in future against the possibility of overflow. It looks like the overarching policy was to keep as much water back as possible to have it in reserve and of course it backfired with the unrelenting rains. It points to an 'all or nothing' approach, though, and one would have thought that incremental releases of water should have been possible, to keep water levels in the dams stable.

It suggests some kind of systemic problem whereby for some reason this incremental release of water over time was not implemented and I can't see how this is a political issue. Certainly it is a logistical cockup, but it points to the necessity of a more sophisticated way to manage water in the country which any government would do well to implement.

And you are getting close to what cannot be talked about

[hanuman1]

Not to mention that,

the initial and unrecoverable major errors took place weeks ago up country, and the lack of accurate information passed on nationally, left the Bangkok Gov. making the best decisions with inadequate information and status. Add to that the scatter shot regional controls of what constitues 'protecting Bangkok' is in the hands of assorted appointees in fear of their jobs going tits up any day, or new in their jobs and not having a clue. A lot of water was held illogically up country until it became intenable and was then released because of screaming for it to be done by villagers, and dams ready to burst. Suddenly this huge torrent is thrust upon the regions around Bangkok and their reporting to Bangkok Gov. was scattershot yet again.

It's been a logistical cock up since the beginning. Moving water; where when. Some or most erred on not moving it till there was no choice, or erred in not sending bad news up the power chain, and that's made the choices of those down stream needing Methuselah and Archimedean wisdom to decide.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, apart from the fact that decisions of Archimedean wisdom are necessary for the managers of each dam in the country, not just for those downstream. My understanding is that the management of each dam upstream must balance the requirement of having enough water to mitigate potential drought conditions in future against the possibility of overflow. It looks like the overarching policy was to keep as much water back as possible to have it in reserve and of course it backfired with the unrelenting rains. It points to an 'all or nothing' approach, though, and one would have thought that incremental releases of water should have been possible, to keep water levels in the dams stable.

It suggests some kind of systemic problem whereby for some reason this incremental release of water over time was not implemented and I can't see how this is a political issue. Certainly it is a logistical cockup, but it points to the necessity of a more sophisticated way to manage water in the country which any government would do well to implement.

And you are getting close to what cannot be talked about

Oh well, another interesting debate bites the dust.....

[Arkady]

He had his control of BKK water management removed yesterday by the PM, so what is he on about apart from poltical games?

The central government are obviously rersponding to all the calls for BKK gates to be opened which Sukhumband wanted to resist or limit. Without the disaster decree the BKK water gates remained directly under his control. BKK is going to take a hit as the government responds to national concern while Sukhumband wanted to manage this to respond to his local concerned constituents.

By the way, I had a nice chat to a few PAD guys in Chonburi on the politics surrounding the floods. They seem to think every decision is poltical and are scathing of PTP and Dems and see absolutely no change in poltical alignments or voting intention after the floods, whihc is interesting

I would guess he has in essence said, you want it, fine you do it now, and here's places you missed, but you will not succeed in blaming me later for what you screw up from now on.

I don't blame him a bit.

If the opening of Bangkok's water gates results in relatively light flooding inn Bangkok, and effectively drains the north-east/west areas that have been flooded for a couple of weeks already, people will be saying why they weren't opened weeks ago.

I agree that Sukhumband has probably done his job pretty well, but the result of doing his job well is the flooding they've had outside BKK. This would suggest the thing to have done would have been to relieve him of his water-management responsibilities at an earlier time, avoiding most of the serious flooding that has occurred outside the city. And that would have been the responsibility of the PM, sure, although it would probably have been quite an unpopular step to take at that time.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's how it seems as far as I can tell.

How you see it is how a lot of people who have lost their homes see it, and I am not talking about red shirts or rural poor but middle class residents of Pathum Thani etc who cant understand why the BKK gates werent opened earlier but who do now know it was the BKK governor who made those decisions to protect his constituents

Just for the record Pathum Thani and Nonthaburi went completely red in the last elections. The Democrats held on to most of the city wards, except the semi rural ones to the East which Sukhumbhand (and Yingluck) decided to flood because they are outside the flood walls at Kingkaew Road. Many middle class people have moved into the new housing estates in Pathum and Nonthaburi but they were not enough to sway the elections in favour of the Democrats. Having said that, I am sure that Pathum and Non would have done the same as the BMA, if it had the budget and the independent local government of the BMA, and that would have pissed off the provinces next to them. That's just where the dividing line happened to be.

[rubl]

The 'other' newspaper had a 21:54 breakingnews with the FROC explaining about floods and this very interesting piece of info:

There is no need to panic as there is no more rain from the North

[scotbeve]

Not to mention that,

the initial and unrecoverable major errors took place weeks ago up country, and the lack of accurate information passed on nationally, left the Bangkok Gov. making the best decisions with inadequate information and status. Add to that the scatter shot regional controls of what constitues 'protecting Bangkok' is in the hands of assorted appointees in fear of their jobs going tits up any day, or new in their jobs and not having a clue. A lot of water was held illogically up country until it became intenable and was then released because of screaming for it to be done by villagers, and dams ready to burst. Suddenly this huge torrent is thrust upon the regions around Bangkok and their reporting to Bangkok Gov. was scattershot yet again.

It's been a logistical cock up since the beginning. Moving water; where when. Some or most erred on not moving it till there was no choice, or erred in not sending bad news up the power chain, and that's made the choices of those down stream needing Methuselah and Archimedean wisdom to decide.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, apart from the fact that decisions of Archimedean wisdom are necessary for the managers of each dam in the country, not just for those downstream. My understanding is that the management of each dam upstream must balance the requirement of having enough water to mitigate potential drought conditions in future against the possibility of overflow. It looks like the overarching policy was to keep as much water back as possible to have it in reserve and of course it backfired with the unrelenting rains. It points to an 'all or nothing' approach, though, and one would have thought that incremental releases of water should have been possible, to keep water levels in the dams stable.

It suggests some kind of systemic problem whereby for some reason this incremental release of water over time was not implemented and I can't see how this is a political issue. Certainly it is a logistical cockup, but it points to the necessity of a more sophisticated way to manage water in the country which any government would do well to implement.

And you are getting close to what cannot be talked about

There we go.... orders are orders after all and to disobey???