Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[hardy1943]

And this is what the poor people get for voting in these Red Shirt scumbags. Disgusting.

WRONG! This is what Thailand gets for YEARS of ignoring a problem that was staring them in the face. For YEARS of allowing the rich and powerful to destroy natural forest preserves so they could build their mansions and resorts. For YEARS of building factories, houses and condos in areas that were formerly flood runoff areas. For YEARS of asking experts from other countries, Holland for example, to come in do studies and tell them what is needed, and then totally ignoring those studies and reports because "Thai know better than farang". It doesn't matter one dam_n bit WHICH government was in place, this STILL would have happened, and there just not a hell of a lot that anyone can do about it now. Yes, Yingluck and Company can be, and should be, accused of mismanagement, but can you, or anyone, give me any guarantees that Abhisit & Company would have done any better?

He got all those toys for them and maybe the 10 yellow submarines would have stopped all off that

[bangkokrick]

It's a bit strange because reading US ambassador Kristie Kenney's twitter, it's clear that the US military is already helping out: http://twitter.com/#...!/KristieKenney

'Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain (GW carrier group). Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.'

'For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.'

So the govt obviously hasn't point blank refused US help.

At last someone can see this. I posted this tweet ages ago and it did not impress. It's pretty obvious that the US is helping albeit it a limited way.

[Chopperboy]

"Some people in Dubai do have really long fingers...or is he at the border mounting his white steed for the triumphant ride to the rescue"

What we now need is the good doctor to be allowed to come back and "save Thailand".

Edited October 25, 2011 by Chopperboy

[bangkokrick]

What we now need is the good doctor to be allowed to come back and "save Thailand".

I guess that is his plan. Knight in shining armour and all that.

[schvonsky1]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

I Hope things really start to get better this be be a total nitemare for the people i pray for you all and please thailand accept all the bloody help you can get you need it :jap:

[dominique355]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Yep, and here is their telephone no, if you need help: 1914-1918 1939-1945

There is a special no for Koreans: 1950-1953

[SAffer]

US help never comes for free and the hidden payback is always much bigger than the actual help.

I am an Aussie and personally think the Yanks have helped all over the world in hundreads of crisis situations. I dont know of any hidden costs or paybacks to date. Can you elaborate on your comment.

I'm a SAffer, and for once I agree with the Aussie...

[pimay11]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Yep, and here is their telephone no, if you need help: 1914-1918 1939-1945

There is a special no for Koreans: 1950-1953

[NiratLipivetchkulkit]

my thought is what we need is more boat , truck (six or ten wheel), water jet ski or scooter. we got a lot of food and water supplies sitting at donmueng and other major refugee camp. my eng suck so i dont know how to explain this but if you have seen situation with your own eye you will understand more .

[KeyserSoze01]

"On October 15, a small ten-man team of US Marines traveled to Thailand to deliver thousands of sandbags and to assess how the American military could help with relief efforts"

sending sandbags is the least, what US government should be doing, in such situation. Much more important are basic medical supplies, medicines and equipment.

but, of course, it's a very strange position, not to accept an offer of help. Those marines could be used in rescue work, which is so much needed.

looks, life thai foreign ministry made a big mistake, because there weren't any diplomatic favours in exchange for help.

When offers of help are made and accepted it does not come free as some would like to think, the helping countries send their over inflated invoices later. Why would anyone think these countries are being charitable? no they are waiting to make a quick buck.

You care to offer an example? Just one will do.

[rogerdee123]

my thought is what we need is more boat , truck (six or ten wheel), water jet ski or scooter. we got a lot of food and water supplies sitting at  donmueng and other major refugee camp.<br>my eng suck so i dont know how to explain this but if you have seen situation with your own eye you will understand more .<br>

We know what you mean and that's what those 1000 boats needlessly churning up the Chaopraya should be doing.

[zydeco]

Big Rick, a lot of us have those feelings about the euros from time to time. Even someone like me, who cares very little for my country's policies and meddling ways. But stirring up these animosities at a time like this just isn't going to get us anywhere. Those of us here in BKK are stuck in a serious situation and, who knows, it might be an Englishman or a German or a Belgian or a Spaniard who gives us a helping hand--although I admit I would prefer it to be an Italian!--and vice versa. I do have the feeling that as Thailand goes through extreme hardships and probably some cruelties in the coming weeks that we Westerners might not be all that welcome of a sight. Best we don't fight amongst ourselves and give Thais yet another reason to wonder why they let us in. All this aside, the current Thai government, of course, should receive all the condemnation in the world for its atrocious handling of this crisis.

[FOODLOVER]

I think there might be something else going on here that's not being reported. The US Navy has kept ships on standby in an area before. If this was only an issue of confused communication, I don't think they would have pulled the ships out so quickly.

They are coming back. They only needed time to make a big red banner for the aircraft carrier.

[bangkokrick]

Big Rick, a lot of us have those feelings about the euros from time to time. Even someone like me, who cares very little for my country's policies and meddling ways. But stirring up these animosities at a time like this just isn't going to get us anywhere. Those of us here in BKK are stuck in a serious situation and, who knows, it might be an Englishman or a German or a Belgian or a Spaniard who gives us a helping hand--although I admit I would prefer it to be an Italian!--and vice versa. I do have the feeling that as Thailand goes through extreme hardships and probably some cruelties in the coming weeks that we Westerners might not be all that welcome of a sight. Best we don't fight amongst ourselves and give Thais yet another reason to wonder why they let us in. All this aside, the current Thai government, of course, should receive all the condemnation in the world for its atrocious handling of this crisis.

Good post.

[serenitynow]

I think there might be something else going on here that's not being reported. The US Navy has kept ships on standby in an area before. If this was only an issue of confused communication, I don't think they would have pulled the ships out so quickly.

They are coming back. They only needed time to make a big red banner for the aircraft carrier.

Thanks for that.

[thaicbr]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Yep, and here is their telephone no, if you need help: 1914-1918 1939-1945

There is a special no for Koreans: 1950-1953

i tried calling that 1939-1945 number from a UK number but the charges were so expensive i didn't finish paying the bill until 2006.

But back on track. Thailand SHOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THE important aid the US ships could have supplied..

Edited October 25, 2011 by thaicbr

[metisdead]

An off topic rant and replies have been removed.

[animatic]

US help never comes for free and the hidden payback is always much bigger than the actual help.

I am an Aussie and personally think the Yanks have helped all over the world in hundreads of crisis situations. I dont know of any hidden costs or paybacks to date. Can you elaborate on your comment.

I'm a SAffer, and for once I agree with the Aussie...

See folks, it IS possible!

Good luck to you all.

Edited October 25, 2011 by animatic

[TomJoad]

Not a good decision. Kind of reminds me of the Bush Administration when they refused help during Katrina. A cruise ship from France (I think) was willing to put people up.

[rakman]

According to wiki,

"A typical aircraft carrier in the U.S. military uses nuclear power to desalinate 400,000 US gallons (1,500,000 lt; 330,000 imp gal) of water per day"

I didn't know that - but if true, that would be a lot of help. Maybe authorities will come to their senses later

Oh, it's true.. plus a large percentage of the 5000 person crew would be out helping any way they could. The complement of helicopters would be rescuing people or delivering food to stranded people. The hospital on the carrier is big too, and the hanger deck makes a great shelter for a few thousand people. The kitchens can make thousands of more meals than the crew needs as well. It's a floating city.

I'm sure there are a number of battle scarred trucks that could be airlifted to Thailand, all they'd have to do is ask.

Nothing like a real crisis to show incompetence of government officials all around the world.

[rakman]

Not a good decision. Kind of reminds me of the Bush Administration when they refused help during Katrina. A cruise ship from France (I think) was willing to put people up.

Federal law prevents the US Federal government from "moving" in on a state in time of crisis. The state must formally ask for assistance (sound familiar?) before the Federal assistance can be deployed.

The Bush administration acted according to the law, the Louisiana Governor didn't ask for assistance and the mayor of New Orleans blew it as well. Maybe the mayor and the governor are consultants to the YS administration.

[BigRick]

Big Rick, a lot of us have those feelings about the euros from time to time. Even someone like me, who cares very little for my country's policies and meddling ways. But stirring up these animosities at a time like this just isn't going to get us anywhere. Those of us here in BKK are stuck in a serious situation and, who knows, it might be an Englishman or a German or a Belgian or a Spaniard who gives us a helping hand--although I admit I would prefer it to be an Italian!--and vice versa. I do have the feeling that as Thailand goes through extreme hardships and probably some cruelties in the coming weeks that we Westerners might not be all that welcome of a sight. Best we don't fight amongst ourselves and give Thais yet another reason to wonder why they let us in. All this aside, the current Thai government, of course, should receive all the condemnation in the world for its atrocious handling of this crisis.

I am in Bkk myself just got done stocking up for the 5th time . 60L Drinking water 40L Portable water 10KG rice 10KG noodles 5KG dried goods. I have not seen any flooding where I live the only effect we have seen is the sheer volume of Hi Soc staying here. You can tell by all the fancy new cars with government badges on the grill and the fancy vans that come pick up their wives in the morning. Some sweet rides in our garage I guess those government jobs must pay pretty good. I use to complain about living in the heart of Bkk but now it seems like it was a wise choice for now. As far as Europeans I have honestly learned to dislike a lot them a lot more living abroad too much preconceived BS about the United States kind of one of those "Really" take a look in the mirror.

I don't think they will be harboring resentment towards Farang they got more local targets to be pissed at. I think this means visas will not be such a hassle anymore that policy seems pretty self defeating from what I have heard from people I know around the country its been a very very bad start for the season. One friend in Jom said about 3 lights are on in a 500 Unit condo.

Edited October 25, 2011 by BigRick

[tlansford]

The US Navy may have been turned away this time, but the Thai Navy did a bang-up job in the last flood.

Thai Navy : Aircraft Carrier, transport boats, & Helicopters for evacuations

[qualtrough]

Can anyone offer an explanation of the vehemently anti-taksin/red shirt stance of many TV members as seen on all the flood threads? It almost exceeds that heard from the Yellow Shirts and the pages of Manager/The Post/The Nation, and is in no way a reflection of the majority of Thais. This is a serious question--it can't be corruption because if there is a Thai party that isn't corrupt to the core I have not heard about it. It can't be about economics, because Thailand did pretty well under Thaksin, and it can't be about cronyism because that is in the DNA of all Thai politicians. The closest thing I have seen to this were the far right-wing efforts in the US to unseat Clinton. He, like Thaksin, was the nexus of all evil, and there were books published about all the people he killed to climb to power, yada yada. What gives?

Edited October 25, 2011 by qualtrough

[serenitynow]

Can anyone offer an explanation of the vehemently anti-taksin/red shirt stance of many TV members as seen on all the flood threads? It almost exceeds that heard from the Yellow Shirts and the pages of Manager/The Post/The Nation, and is in no way a reflection of the majority of Thais. This is a serious question--it can't be corruption because if there is a Thai party that isn't corrupt to the core I have not heard about it. It can't be about economics, because Thailand did pretty well under Thaksin, and it can't be about cronyism because that is in the DNA of all Thai politicians. The closest thing I have seen to this were the far right-wing efforts in the US to unseat Clinton. He, like Thaksin, was the nexus of all evil, and there were books published about all the people he killed to climb to power, yada yada. What gives?

I think people are just frustrated and saddened by all the people who have died needlessly and will die because of the sheer incompetence and indifference of this government. This crisis seems to have come to their attention only a few weeks ago but it started a couple of months ago when they seemed to be occupied with what many feel were less important priorities.

Edited October 25, 2011 by serenitynow

[bangkokrick]

The Government have been more concerned about reconciliation and other populist issues, so they were caught on the hop with the flood situation. Mismanaged, misunderstood and Yingluck is way out of her depth in trying to handle this at the 23rd hour. God help the people of Bangkok and the others in the North that were ignored for the past few months when the floods began.

[BigRick]

Because they are anti western Chinese sympathizers. If you have not noticed it only took two months of them being in office to send a very clear message we don't want Farangs here for more than two weeks and they have to spend at least 300,000 baht at HI-soc related investment resorts. Looks like the tourism gods smited the government. Same rich people using the poor people to achieve the same goals. I don't know if you realize the "guy" on vacation still hookwinked this country for over a billion dollars and killed 1000's of its citizens. Just look at how they handled this flood. Who is in charge? I guess being related to someone in power instantly makes you an expert on floods or better yet whats good for Thailand. The people outside of Bkk are not smiling over this clusterf**k of a disaster response. The world is not smiling over this clusterf**k of a disaster response. Thai superiority in action I have spend over a year here and it never ceases to amaze me the way they operate. If I lie I don't lose face that is what I have learned about the way some people operate here.

[Just1Voice]

An American aircraft carrier the size of the USS George Washington has the following.

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

[OzMick]

Arrogant is: thinking that the Americans are the salt of the earth, that they act out of goodness ans altruistic disinterest and that there is no corruption and no ineptitude in the US. I lived 12 years in India and I respect the country and their people.

Stupid is: believing a military ship is going to solve Thailand's present problems.

I live here in Bangkok among Thai people without any special privilege. As soon as the flood alarm started most of the Europeans and Americans bought all the available water bottles and sundry goods. I guess now they must be sitting in their condos surrounded by water bottles and food. When the foot soldier behaves so selfishly and deplorably, ---and all in full view of the Thai people--- what moral superiority can you claim?

What would you estimate the Europeans and Americans represent as a percentage of the population of Bangkok, 1 or 2% perhaps. And those greedy buggers have bought all that stuff from the supermarkets and stored it in their huge warehouses that double as condos.

Do you have any idea how infantile that concept is?

BTW I'm quite sure the people of Tamil Nadu would have appreciated help from anybody, and couldn't give a flying fart for the reasons the Indian govt refused it.

[scotbeve]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

Now we know who said NO.

Clueless Yingluck thought some helicopters might be a nice helping hand, but of course some military dude knew it better. Some people have to adjust their rants now.

Well, let's see. Just FIVE working coppers in the air at the same time would be dangerous if they were Thai. Whereas the American military, with computerized coordination and competent officers (something else the Thai are seriously lacking in), could easily deploy them with no problem. But for the record, the original story stated the U.S. would send SIX (6) U.S. Marine Blackhawks, with TWENTY (20) more on standby if needed. 26 Blackhawks, under U.S. control, would be able to deliver 100 times more aid to needy victims than what Thailand has the capabilities of doing, as well as being able to rescue and bring to safety a few thousand people that Thailand can't even get to because they don't have the resources, i.e. helicopters, motorized boats, etc.

Yeah, real smart move telling the US they don't need their help.

And as far as US chopper squadrons are concerned, my heavy marine helicopter squadron would lift off 15 choppers at a time (at base) & 3 at a time on a carrier.