Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[BuckarooBanzai]

The heat being generated on this topic would power a desalination plant for a month!! At the end of the day this is a Thai issue and it's up to them to sort it out.

I'm out of the country at the moment and I haven't booked a return flight yet, this story has got a way to run and once it subsides the Prodigal Son will be back. Interesting times in Thailand.

Now a days it is pretty hard to get away with anything. It is pretty likely that the truth of how Thailand handles this disaster will show up on one of the social networks etc. The powers that be are up against a new process of observation that will either help or condemn. I hope those that have the power follow a path that will both help the public and prove beyond a doubt that the government is for the people.

[theblether]

The heat being generated on this topic would power a desalination plant for a month!! At the end of the day this is a Thai issue and it's up to them to sort it out.

I'm out of the country at the moment and I haven't booked a return flight yet, this story has got a way to run and once it subsides the Prodigal Son will be back. Interesting times in Thailand.

Now a days it is pretty hard to get away with anything. It is pretty likely that the truth of how Thailand handles this disaster will show up on one of the social networks etc. The powers that be are up against a new process of observation that will either help or condemn. I hope those that have the power follow a path that will both help the public and prove beyond a doubt that the government is for the people.

Power is the operative word, the most frustrating thing for many people is that they can help, but feel powerless to do so. I trained as an engineer, I was in Chiang Mai two weeks ago when the floods hit with two other highly experienced engineers. Between us we have worked in or visited over 70 countries. We have never felt so useless and unwanted as we did in Chiang Mai during the floods. You see, we are just stupid farangs, what do we know?

We are left powerless to help a country that we love.

[timberboy]

The conversation US navy and Thailand

US navy: Thailand can we help?

Thailand: Up to you

US navy: we want to help

Thailand: No thanks we dont want your help

US navy: <deleted>? you need help , yes or no?

Thailand: Up to you

US navy: <deleted>?..........

A defence official in Washington said the US navy had withdrawn several ships, including aircraft carriers, sent to help with relief efforts in Thailand after receiving "mixed" messages from the Bangkok government.

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defence official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

But Thailand's defence minister, General Yutthasak Sasiprapa, indicated that authorities felt they were able to handle the situation themselves.

"We have not denied their assistance, but we have our own aircraft so we would rather use ours," he told reporters, adding however that he was unclear over the details of the US offer and needed to check with the air force chief.

A spokesman from the US embassy in Bangkok said one ship from the US group had docked in Thailand on October 20 and its helicopters had since been on missions coordinated with the Thai army and other US agencies.

Below, India sends aid.

http://www.newkerala.com/news/2011/worldnews-92333.html

Below, Singapore sends aid

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC111021-0000573/Singapore-sends-humanitarian-relief-aid-to-Thailand

Below, China sends aid

http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20111018/111407.shtml

Below, Malaysia sends aid

http://www.siamdailynews.com/foreign-news/2011/10/23/malaysia-pledges-one-mln-usd-to-aid-thai-flood/

Below, European Union sends aid

http://news.ph.msn.com/regional/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5431805

BUT USA IS TOLD NO THANKS

Some people there need to take their heads out of their a--es. The USA is not the British Empire, and its not the last century when the europeans came and took natural resources of the SE asian countries.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Tywais
Link to Bangkok Post removed

[BuckarooBanzai]

The heat being generated on this topic would power a desalination plant for a month!! At the end of the day this is a Thai issue and it's up to them to sort it out.

I'm out of the country at the moment and I haven't booked a return flight yet, this story has got a way to run and once it subsides the Prodigal Son will be back. Interesting times in Thailand.

Now a days it is pretty hard to get away with anything. It is pretty likely that the truth of how Thailand handles this disaster will show up on one of the social networks etc. The powers that be are up against a new process of observation that will either help or condemn. I hope those that have the power follow a path that will both help the public and prove beyond a doubt that the government is for the people.

Power is the operative word, the most frustrating thing for many people is that they can help, but feel powerless to do so. I trained as an engineer, I was in Chiang Mai two weeks ago when the floods hit with two other highly experienced engineers. Between us we have worked in or visited over 70 countries. We have never felt so useless and unwanted as we did in Chiang Mai during the floods. You see, we are just stupid farangs, what do we know?

We are left powerless to help a country that we love.

I think a lot of us farangs understand.

[katana]

Thairath's quoting the AFP story in the OP here, so the Thais will be aware of the 'rejection' of help.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/oversea/211904

[anon7867763]

An American aircraft carrier the size of the USS George Washington has the following.

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

+1

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

At least they would be dry.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

And delivering 220V/50hz, without overload, right?

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Let's not forget to feed the crew as well. Or would they all be ashore?

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

How much is used by the crew and the propulsion system and is bottling and delivery practical?

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

These could come in handy, but if it really on a serious relief effort, one would think it would be carrying many more.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

I saw at least a planeload of inflatable boats with motors being delivered from China.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

Not in your wildest dreams. Not unless the US was somehow the cause of this disaster.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

Definitely. Maybe it is better to keep the warships doing warship stuff.

There must be more practical ways to deliver relief aid than using a Carrier Task Force.

So if your house gets flooded and it is Americans coming to help you you would refuse.

Some people on here make me sick. Ask the people in Ayyutya what they feel about people coming to help them. If your house gets flooded by 2 metere of water will your princapals still be there. Of course not. Like I said before you make me .

[cdnvic]

I just deleted a post and gave a long holiday to someone suggesting something very illegal. I almost sent off the person who quoted it too but instead I'll give a warning, to be careful what you quote, and not to needlessly quote others who just posted before you.

[MaxYakov]

An American aircraft carrier the size of the USS George Washington has the following.

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

+1

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

At least they would be dry.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

And delivering 220V/50hz, without overload, right?

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Let's not forget to feed the crew as well. Or would they all be ashore?

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

How much is used by the crew and the propulsion system and is bottling and delivery practical?

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

These could come in handy, but if it really on a serious relief effort, one would think it would be carrying many more.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

I saw at least a planeload of inflatable boats with motors being delivered from China.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

Not in your wildest dreams. Not unless the US was somehow the cause of this disaster.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

Definitely. Maybe it is better to keep the warships doing warship stuff.

There must be more practical ways to deliver relief aid than using a Carrier Task Force.

So if your house gets flooded and it is Americans coming to help you you would refuse.

Some people on here make me sick. Ask the people in Ayyutya what they feel about people coming to help them. If your house gets flooded by 2 metere of water will your princapals still be there. Of course not. Like I said before you make me .

I did not state my opinion about whether or not Americans should send aid. I was simply saying that a nuclear-powered Carrier Task Force armed with nuclear weapons (you betcha) was not the most practical way to send relief aid. This was evidenced by the experience of the USS Abraham Lincoln off Sumatra in the tsunami of 2004 as described in article by a member of the crew and part of Public Relations function.

Other countries are sending aid and are not using nuclear-armed aircraft carriers to do so. Recently, the US Marines brought sandbags and offered the assistance flood-related matters. They don't have an aircraft carrier under their command so they had to make-do with what-have - a C-130. Airlifting relief supplies is a lot faster than supplying them by sea anyway. The aircraft carrier has as advantage in that it could serve as a heliport, but it's not clear to me that the Royal Thai Air Force or Navy needs one.

[londonthai]

looks, like the story is something different:

"A spokesman from the US embassy in Bangkok said one ship from the US group had docked in Thailand on October 20 and its helicopters had since been on missions coordinated with the Thai army and other US agencies."

[salween]

looks, like the story is something different:

"A spokesman from the US embassy in Bangkok said one ship from the US group had docked in Thailand on October 20 and its helicopters had since been on missions coordinated with the Thai army and other US agencies."

Or different still as another source that cannot be named on TV noted that the Thai Foreign Ministry stated that the US considered that present flood situations were not dangerous so its aircraft carrier could not deploy helicopters.

[kumsamut]

2 channels from the gov. Haven't we all heard about something invisible?

[FOODLOVER]

looks, like the story is something different:

http://www.thaivisa....floods-advance/

"A spokesman from the US embassy in Bangkok said one ship from the US group had docked in Thailand on October 20 and its helicopters had since been on missions coordinated with the Thai army and other US agencies."

Or different still as another source that cannot be named on TV noted that the Thai Foreign Ministry stated that the US considered that present flood situations were not dangerous so its aircraft carrier could not deploy helicopters.

and yet another source stated that the refusal was based on the fact that all the helicopters flying at the same time would push the earth out of orbital rotation causing big pom pom.

[BigSkip]

... it's all pretty disturbing ... can anyone comment on protocols that would warrant a UN intervention to prevent human disaster, without an invitation from the Thai government? ... at what point do Thais need to be protected from the Thais?

... these people seem just too incompetent to care for themselves ... freakishly incompetent

With the amount of help that could have been provided by the U.S.N. (former/retired U.S.N.) It is beyond me!WHY,WHY Not Take the Assistance??????????

Edited October 26, 2011 by BigSkip

[BigSkip]

An American aircraft carrier the size of the USS George Washington has the following.

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

At least they would be dry.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

And delivering 220V/50hz, without overload, right?

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Let's not forget to feed the crew as well. Or would they all be ashore?

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

How much is used by the crew and the propulsion system and is bottling and delivery practical?

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

These could come in handy, but if it really on a serious relief effort, one would think it would be carrying many more.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

I saw at least a planeload of inflatable boats with motors being delivered from China.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

Not in your wildest dreams. Not unless the US was somehow the cause of this disaster.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

Definitely. Maybe it is better to keep the warships doing warship stuff.

There must be more practical ways to deliver relief aid than using a Carrier Task Force.

So if your house gets flooded and it is Americans coming to help you you would refuse.

Some people on here make me sick. Ask the people in Ayyutya what they feel about people coming to help them. If your house gets flooded by 2 metere of water will your princapals still be there. Of course not. Like I said before you make me .

To "MaxYakov", I hope you get flooded out and there is no one to help you. I am Retired U.S. Navy who DID serve on a U.S. Carrier, all of your qoutes are being pulled out of your arse! The much needed help should have been taken. I have friends who went north the past 2 weekends, they didn't have enough boats or supplies to help most of the people, they did what they could and left, YOU have NO CLUE..... Or Common Sense.

[OzMick]

The Abe Lincoln was parked off Aceh after the tsunami. Strange as it may seem, it was very welcome and helped immensely, even though the locals had been assured that the US was the Great Satan by the muslim separatists (they now seem to be out of business). It seems we have your opinion as opposed to actual recent historical record.

USS Abraham Lincoln Wiki Entry:

... The carrier was on a port call in Hong Kong when a the 9.0-magnitude 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake struck southern Asia on 26 December 2004. To help with the international relief effort and assist with search and rescue efforts already underway, the Lincoln to provide humanitarian assistance. The deployment was designated Operation Unified Assistance.

In mid-January 2005 the carrier left Indonesian waters after the Indonesian government refused to allow fighter pilots assigned to deployed to the hard hit western coast of Sumatra Lincoln to conduct air patrols and training flights. By law, US carrier-based pilots must practice at least once every two to three weeks to remain "fit," otherwise they are grounded. Despite the move into international waters, Lincoln continued to provide support to the region until 4 February. During the carrier's 33 days on station, she and her battle group, Carrier Strike Group Nine delivered 5.7 million pounds of relief supplies. The 17 helicopters assigned to HSL-47 Sabrehawks and HS-2 "Golden Falcons", attached to CVW-2 flew 1,747 relief missions along the western coast of Sumatra. The carrier's departure coincided with the arrival of the hospital ship Mercy.

Extract from a 1/30/2005 Article by Journalist 1st Class (SW) Joaquin Juatai, USS Abraham Lincoln Public Affairs:

Crew members ensure that vital food, water and medicine supplies are ferried to the survivors of the devastating tsunami that struck the Aceh province on the island of Sumatra Dec. 26.

...

The Sailors catch the morning's helicopters to Sultan Iskandar Muda Air Force Base in Banda Aceh, the logistics hub for relief efforts in northern Indonesia. There, they unload trucks and airplanes full of aid supplies, such as food and medicine, and then load it all back into the helicopters of CVW-2 for delivery to towns and villages isolated by the destructive wave.

Are you comparing the 2004 tsunami event to the current problem in Thailand where the government and the people have had months to prepare? Do you suppose the Indonesian government reimbursed the US for services rendered? But I digress.

I was pointing out item-by-item what I thought were the restrictions of using an aircraft carrier for disaster relief. All those restrictions I mentioned applied equally to the USS Abraham Lincoln. If the USS Abraham Lincoln had done anything more what I have quoted above, then why didn't Journalist 1st Class (SW) Joaquin Juatai (Public Affairs) mention those? Apparently it used used primarily to unload and load supplies by supplying manpower from the crew and ferrying them to shore. I'm sure it's helicopters were useful.

However, there was nothing mentioned about supplying water, cooking meals for refugees, supplying power, providing medical care, supplying inflatable boats or sheltering tsunami victims. And this was an emergency!

A new restriction of a US aircraft carrier has emerged from my research (Wiki):

"By law, US carrier-based pilots must practice at least once every two to three weeks to remain "fit," otherwise they are grounded."

Perhaps the Thai government office that (allegedly) said 'No" had some qualms about US warplanes buzzing around?

Also, we don't know exactly how the USS George Washington was provisioned for the relief effort or any of the details regarding its deployment. However, perhaps we can look back at the USS Abraham Lincoln experience for insight. It was doubtlessly ill-equipped for the relief effort since it had to sail on short notice.

Even if the USS George Washington had been fully-provisioned as a disaster relief vessel, there are still practical limitations as to how it could be used and limitations on how much degradation of its primary task capability would be allowed.

It does have a day job. That job is to provide a deterrent threat. There are Japan, Taiwan and South Korea to consider.

It wasn't mentioned so it didn't happen? Sorry old son, but Oz TV reports showed the ship's hospital treating injured victims, or did you think it a coincidence it left as Mercy arrived. It wasn't sent as a "disaster relief vessel", it was sent to allow access to it's normally available facilities. Ill-equipped is about 1000 times better than SFA which was what was available there.

And the Indos weren't keen on military aircraft ops - perhaps they don't have an annual joint exercise.

[Markaew]

... it's all pretty disturbing ... can anyone comment on protocols that would warrant a UN intervention to prevent human disaster, without an invitation from the Thai government? ... at what point do Thais need to be protected from the Thais?

... these people seem just too incompetent to care for themselves ... freakishly incompetent

With the amount of help that could have been provided by the U.S.N. (former/retired U.S.N.) It is beyond me!WHY,WHY Not Take the Assistance??????????

The logic we are trying to apply here just doesn't work in Thailand. They would rather have their people die than to lose face. To accept help from the outside would be admitting incompetence. I think the thai population is in line with this as well or at least they understand it. To vent this frustration here is therapeutic, but even after thousands that could die, nothing will change. Drink your beer and stay in denial that these people are civilized.

[JoePadilla]

I think U.S. government should not withdraw their fleet. With or with out request from Thai government. They should make their ships on stand-by, just for the sake of their own people. Just in case anything goes wrong.

[monty1412]

what scares me even more is this is the country that was contemplating nuclear power resources... my god can you just imagine the mess now if it had of gone ahead..

You are scared because you cannot understand how "science" works in Thailand, this is not "falang's science", it is "The THAI Science", not the same thing, so if they had it done, now we would have nuclear powered pla-duks spinning their fish tails at full speed to send back the flooding waters from where it came from, so no more floodings, and they even glows at night......but "you not thai, you-you cannot undelstand!"

Now that made me laugh.. your right Id forgotten about the side benefits about radioactive leaks.. whole lot of mutant ducks and fish with huge web finned feet and enormous tails all fanning the extra water out to sea..... makes as much sense as what the government is saying now... Im convinced..lets go NUCLEAR IN THAILAND.... in fact lets do it Thai style.. nuc powered som tam carts ...

[chris1101]

Has anyone in the Thai government issued a statement as to why the US navy's offer of help was refused? In English please as I cannot read Thai.

[geriatrickid]

The US naval vessels do not have the appropriate equipment for a relief effort. Much of the equipment and supplies such as a mobile water filtration plants and field equipment that are used in foreign relief operations are in the USA. A large part of that inventory was used following the recent large scale flooding and windstorm devastation in some states. This is specialized equipment and has to be reassembled, cleaned and serviced. Yes, there are helicopters attached to the vessels but these are not configured for effficient relief missions. Simply put, the helicopters would have to fly multiple sorties to accomplish what the appropriate equipment would achieve.

I believe the USN was being positioned to show the flag and as a gesture of support. it was also intended to address the need for the evacuation of US nationals. Someone jumped the gun, since the US Secretary fo State did not authorize any relief mission.There has to be an assessment conducted first. Those are the rules. This thread is much ado about a simple miscommunication.

For the sake of fairness, the US government has already positioned personnel in Hong Kong, and Singapore to respond. My understanding is that there is a field assessment team on the ground in Thailand. The EU and Australia have personnel on the ground as well. The USA just doesn't send in its navy for a relief initiative. They do their homework and plan. Then they plan some more. Look at the experience in Haiti. It took over a week for the site and security assessments to be done. By that time, Israel, Canada and France had set up their field hospitals and Canada set up the largest mobile filtration system on the island. If and when foreign equipment and personnel are required, it is highly likely that the US will be first in, but they have to do their prep work first. The USN is not some mighty beast that can just set up for rescue. They need to gear up and be properly equipped. US warships do not take on refugees nor lend their medical facilities to refugees. That is what the hospital ships are used for. Again, in Haiti, the USN deployed a hospital ship and did not use its other vessels for medical relief. To do otherwise breaks the security seal on board a naval vessel.

[OzMick]

looks, like the story is something different:

http://www.thaivisa....floods-advance/

"A spokesman from the US embassy in Bangkok said one ship from the US group had docked in Thailand on October 20 and its helicopters had since been on missions coordinated with the Thai army and other US agencies."

Or different still as another source that cannot be named on TV noted that the Thai Foreign Ministry stated that the US considered that present flood situations were not dangerous so its aircraft carrier could not deploy helicopters.

and yet another source stated that the refusal was based on the fact that all the helicopters flying at the same time would push the earth out of orbital rotation causing big pom pom.

That's not until next year !

[slapout]

I think U.S. government should not withdraw their fleet. With or with out request from Thai government. They should make their ships on stand-by, just for the sake of their own people. Just in case anything goes wrong.

The US nor does any country have enough ships/personnel to stand by, off various locations of the world "just for the sake of their own people", where " Just in case anything could go wrong" Now Thailand has 1000 boats propelling water to the ocean, 1000 bamboo rafts on the way, and thousands of inter tubes, boats, etc, which are avaliable or proposed.

Anyone with any self preservation instinct, watching or observing the present fiasco has already disappeared under the radar (out of sight, out of mind). Some Thai wannabe honcho probably wanted to drive the aircraft carrier as well as handle aircraft logistics.

[peterdk]

BUT USA IS TOLD NO THANKS

To sum up all the links provided by you, it seems like Thailand accepts aid providing :

1) That the aid is useful. ( Boats from China as example )

2) That it is money. ( That can be used as best seen fit )

3) That Thailand remains in control over how the aid is best put to use. ( Boats money etc )

Also seems clear, that Thailand does not accept help if Thailand is not in 100% control ( US Carrier fleet )

[peterdk]

The US naval vessels do not have the appropriate equipment for a relief effort. Much of the equipment and supplies such as a mobile water filtration plants and field equipment that are used in foreign relief operations are in the USA. A large part of that inventory was used following the recent large scale flooding and windstorm devastation in some states. This is specialized equipment and has to be reassembled, cleaned and serviced. Yes, there are helicopters attached to the vessels but these are not configured for effficient relief missions. Simply put, the helicopters would have to fly multiple sorties to accomplish what the appropriate equipment would achieve.

I believe the USN was being positioned to show the flag and as a gesture of support. it was also intended to address the need for the evacuation of US nationals. Someone jumped the gun, since the US Secretary fo State did not authorize any relief mission.There has to be an assessment conducted first. Those are the rules. This thread is much ado about a simple miscommunication.

For the sake of fairness, the US government has already positioned personnel in Hong Kong, and Singapore to respond. My understanding is that there is a field assessment team on the ground in Thailand. The EU and Australia have personnel on the ground as well. The USA just doesn't send in its navy for a relief initiative. They do their homework and plan. Then they plan some more. Look at the experience in Haiti. It took over a week for the site and security assessments to be done. By that time, Israel, Canada and France had set up their field hospitals and Canada set up the largest mobile filtration system on the island. If and when foreign equipment and personnel are required, it is highly likely that the US will be first in, but they have to do their prep work first. The USN is not some mighty beast that can just set up for rescue. They need to gear up and be properly equipped. US warships do not take on refugees nor lend their medical facilities to refugees. That is what the hospital ships are used for. Again, in Haiti, the USN deployed a hospital ship and did not use its other vessels for medical relief. To do otherwise breaks the security seal on board a naval vessel.

Im not saying I disagree.

However having a carrier here, with support vessels is a clear indication of wanting to help.

It may not be setup for relief efforts upon arrival from Singapore, I will give you that.

However a carrier does have a landing strip and quite a lot of space on board.

That landing strip could easily be used to ferry equipment to the area, if no on shore landing strip was available.

Then placed on surrounding support ships.

And if it takes a few weeks to best asses the situation, plenty of supplies can be flown in during that time window.

Also common sense would say, that quite a few helicopters for transporting supplies would be required.

These helicopters could be relocated here, if a carrier was around.

So talking about what they can and cannot do upon arrival is not really relevant.

If no carrier here, well obviously nothing can be done - if one here, something can be done.

[MaxYakov]

The Abe Lincoln was parked off Aceh after the tsunami. Strange as it may seem, it was very welcome and helped immensely, even though the locals had been assured that the US was the Great Satan by the muslim separatists (they now seem to be out of business). It seems we have your opinion as opposed to actual recent historical record.

USS Abraham Lincoln Wiki Entry:

... The carrier was on a port call in Hong Kong when a the 9.0-magnitude 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake struck southern Asia on 26 December 2004. To help with the international relief effort and assist with search and rescue efforts already underway, the Lincoln to provide humanitarian assistance. The deployment was designated Operation Unified Assistance.

In mid-January 2005 the carrier left Indonesian waters after the Indonesian government refused to allow fighter pilots assigned to deployed to the hard hit western coast of Sumatra Lincoln to conduct air patrols and training flights. By law, US carrier-based pilots must practice at least once every two to three weeks to remain "fit," otherwise they are grounded. Despite the move into international waters, Lincoln continued to provide support to the region until 4 February. During the carrier's 33 days on station, she and her battle group, Carrier Strike Group Nine delivered 5.7 million pounds of relief supplies. The 17 helicopters assigned to HSL-47 Sabrehawks and HS-2 "Golden Falcons", attached to CVW-2 flew 1,747 relief missions along the western coast of Sumatra. The carrier's departure coincided with the arrival of the hospital ship Mercy.

Extract from a 1/30/2005 Article by Journalist 1st Class (SW) Joaquin Juatai, USS Abraham Lincoln Public Affairs:

Crew members ensure that vital food, water and medicine supplies are ferried to the survivors of the devastating tsunami that struck the Aceh province on the island of Sumatra Dec. 26.

...

The Sailors catch the morning's helicopters to Sultan Iskandar Muda Air Force Base in Banda Aceh, the logistics hub for relief efforts in northern Indonesia. There, they unload trucks and airplanes full of aid supplies, such as food and medicine, and then load it all back into the helicopters of CVW-2 for delivery to towns and villages isolated by the destructive wave.

Are you comparing the 2004 tsunami event to the current problem in Thailand where the government and the people have had months to prepare? Do you suppose the Indonesian government reimbursed the US for services rendered? But I digress.

I was pointing out item-by-item what I thought were the restrictions of using an aircraft carrier for disaster relief. All those restrictions I mentioned applied equally to the USS Abraham Lincoln. If the USS Abraham Lincoln had done anything more what I have quoted above, then why didn't Journalist 1st Class (SW) Joaquin Juatai (Public Affairs) mention those? Apparently it used used primarily to unload and load supplies by supplying manpower from the crew and ferrying them to shore. I'm sure it's helicopters were useful.

However, there was nothing mentioned about supplying water, cooking meals for refugees, supplying power, providing medical care, supplying inflatable boats or sheltering tsunami victims. And this was an emergency!

A new restriction of a US aircraft carrier has emerged from my research (Wiki):

"By law, US carrier-based pilots must practice at least once every two to three weeks to remain "fit," otherwise they are grounded."

Perhaps the Thai government office that (allegedly) said 'No" had some qualms about US warplanes buzzing around?

Also, we don't know exactly how the USS George Washington was provisioned for the relief effort or any of the details regarding its deployment. However, perhaps we can look back at the USS Abraham Lincoln experience for insight. It was doubtlessly ill-equipped for the relief effort since it had to sail on short notice.

Even if the USS George Washington had been fully-provisioned as a disaster relief vessel, there are still practical limitations as to how it could be used and limitations on how much degradation of its primary task capability would be allowed.

It does have a day job. That job is to provide a deterrent threat. There are Japan, Taiwan and South Korea to consider.

It wasn't mentioned so it didn't happen? Sorry old son, but Oz TV reports showed the ship's hospital treating injured victims, or did you think it a coincidence it left as Mercy arrived. It wasn't sent as a "disaster relief vessel", it was sent to allow access to it's normally available facilities. Ill-equipped is about 1000 times better than SFA which was what was available there.

And the Indos weren't keen on military aircraft ops - perhaps they don't have an annual joint exercise.

You implied that an 'actual recent historical record' would oppose my opinion w/r USS George Washington. That doesn't appear to be the case.

Quote OzMick: It wasn't mentioned so it didn't happen? Sorry old son, but Oz TV reports showed the ship's hospital treating injured victims, or did you think it a coincidence it left as Mercy arrived.

I asked you why a crew member, Journalist 1st Class (SW) Joaquin Juatai (Public Affairs), didn't mention other tasks that it had performed. I did not commit either way as to the occurrence of other tasks.

OK, so Oz TV reports showed the ship's hospital treating injured victims. There could be any number of reasons why he didn't mention it in his article. In any event, use of carrier's hospital facilities was not something I thought was unfeasible in my original reply to Just1Voice. Check it out.

Frankly, I didn't think much about the Mercy's arrival in relation to the carrier's departure. If you believe it was so that the medical assistance would not be interrupted, then it's your 'belief' or 'opinion' unless you can substantiate it. I would guess that they had actually overstayed and were anxious to leave and, perhaps, not solely because of their pilots' expiring fitness requirements.

Why didn't they delay their departure for an overlap period to augment the Mercy's facilities?

Quote OzMick: And the Indos weren't keen on military aircraft ops - perhaps they don't have an annual joint exercise.

Wow! Good try, but no cigar, IMHO. Ever hear of a thing called 'sovereignty'? The way I read it was that the 'Indos' did not want the US aircraft flying around at all, with or without accompanying Indonesian aircraft.

Nice Rapping With You!

Edited October 26, 2011 by MaxYakov

[rangefinder]

BUT USA IS TOLD NO THANKS

To sum up all the links provided by you, it seems like Thailand accepts aid providing :

1) That the aid is useful. ( Boats from China as example )

2) That it is money. ( That can be used as best seen fit )

3) That Thailand remains in control over how the aid is best put to use. ( Boats money etc )

Also seems clear, that Thailand does not accept help if Thailand is not in 100% control ( US Carrier fleet )

100% control means the politicians in charge benefitting in some way personally - TIT !

[Markaew]

"On October 15, a small ten-man team of US Marines traveled to Thailand to deliver thousands of sandbags and to assess how the American military could help with relief efforts"

sending sandbags is the least, what US government should be doing, in such situation. Much more important are basic medical supplies, medicines and equipment.

but, of course, it's a very strange position, not to accept an offer of help. Those marines could be used in rescue work, which is so much needed.

looks, life thai foreign ministry made a big mistake, because there weren't any diplomatic favours in exchange for help.

When offers of help are made and accepted it does not come free as some would like to think, the helping countries send their over inflated invoices later. Why would anyone think these countries are being charitable? no they are waiting to make a quick buck.

You care to offer an example? Just one will do.

I would like to hear that answer as well.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Markaew

[Markaew]

This is what the US ship Mustin has been doing.

My link

Thanks for the link. Great for getting the FACTS.

[MaxYakov]

An American aircraft carrier the size of the USS George Washington has the following.

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

3 hospitals that can treat several hundred people.

At least they would be dry.

Nuclear powered and can provide electricity to off shore facilities.

And delivering 220V/50hz, without overload, right?

3 cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people 3 times a day.

Let's not forget to feed the crew as well. Or would they all be ashore?

Can produce 400,000 gallons (1514164.72 L) per day

How much is used by the crew and the propulsion system and is bottling and delivery practical?

Over half a dozen helicopters of various size and design that can be used to transport food and medical supplies, and also rescue victims stranded and take them to safety.

These could come in handy, but if it really on a serious relief effort, one would think it would be carrying many more.

Half a dozen, or more, motorized inflatable boats capable of carrying 6 – 12 people at a time.

I saw at least a planeload of inflatable boats with motors being delivered from China.

Not to mention the large areas below the flight deck that could be used a temporary shelter for those in need.

Not in your wildest dreams. Not unless the US was somehow the cause of this disaster.

But Amazing Thailand doesn't need any of this, as they have things under control, right?

Definitely. Maybe it is better to keep the warships doing warship stuff.

There must be more practical ways to deliver relief aid than using a Carrier Task Force.

So if your house gets flooded and it is Americans coming to help you you would refuse.

Some people on here make me sick. Ask the people in Ayyutya what they feel about people coming to help them. If your house gets flooded by 2 metere of water will your princapals still be there. Of course not. Like I said before you make me .

To "MaxYakov", I hope you get flooded out and there is no one to help you. I am Retired U.S. Navy who DID serve on a U.S. Carrier, all of your qoutes are being pulled out of your arse! The much needed help should have been taken. I have friends who went north the past 2 weekends, they didn't have enough boats or supplies to help most of the people, they did what they could and left, YOU have NO CLUE..... Or Common Sense.

If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. Some of these C5As might have been more timely and successful with getting boats and supplies to the people, I would bet. Where are the supplies right now? Stowed amidst F/A-18s at hangar deck level on the USS George Washington?

Edited October 26, 2011 by MaxYakov

[glanger]

Thairath's quoting the AFP story in the OP here, so the Thais will be aware of the 'rejection' of help.

Thank you for that.

That's good to know because they need to know it happened.

It seems crazy to turn away help, especially so much help as this, during a time of calamity.