Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[ElVez]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

So what other countries have offered up help? Criticise all you want but the USA is consistently the first country to show up at most disasters worldwide....and yes of course there may be all sorts of ulterior motives but when you're drowning and somebody throws you a life vest you grab it and say thank you. One would think perhaps China "the new world power" would be offering help but if they have i have not seen or heard about it.

Read Chinese newspapers.

[ronz28]

It could be worse. There is a lot less to fear in a flood than wars, fires or a nuclear disaster.

I imagine that's got to be at least some consolation to those facing the loss of their homes, crops, businesses, pets, possessions, disease of all types, electrocution, drowning or being crime victims.

From my perspective my community has just lost 1,400 homes destroyed by fire within weeks with no quick help from my government. Nothing left but the concrete foundations. Air water tankers finally came and put the fires our after 38,000 acres were burned. So when the PM of Thailand requests our help, we respond and then its rejected, I don't know what to say but my immediate reaction is count your blessings. It could be worse. Thailand will dry out, its not a fire doing 100% destruction, its not nuclear contamination that will last for more than 30+ years as in Japan.

I have seen film of a lot of people trying to drive through the flood waters in Thailand and it makes me think the saying "Turn around don't drown". I hate to hear of all the death and destruction in Thailand regarding the floods and am concerned for people there. I hope Thailand will do something about flood control as it will only get worse with the land subsidence/sinking in Bangkok and elsewhere.

[samjaidee]

We should send over some FEMA guys to help out....

You are joking, aren't you? Read this.

"After being roundly criticized in a slew of media, congressional and government reports, the Federal Emergency Management Agency's internal watchdog Friday returned its own verdict on the handling of Hurricane Katrina: The criticism against FEMA is largely deserved.

In a hefty 218-page report, the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general writes that the federal government and FEMA received "widespread criticism for a slow and ineffective response to Hurricane Katrina."

"Much of the criticism is warranted," Inspector General Richard L. Skinner writes.

The report gives an account of FEMA's recent history and response to Katrina, covering ground that has been well-plowed in recent months, although adding some details.

It describes manpower problems, a decline in planning for natural disasters as attention focused on possible terrorist scenarios, and confusion over the roles and responsibilities of officials in responding to disasters."

It would seem that the Americans are no better than the Thais in circumstances like this.

Edited October 25, 2011 by samjaidee

[lounger]

When offers of help are made and accepted it does not come free, the helping countries send their over inflated invoices later. Why would anyone think these countries are being charitable? no they are waiting to make a quick buck.

Er what overinflated price. Is life so cheap, is there no potential problem from half a city soiling the water they live in..............

I cant believe the selfish self opinionated arrogant rubbish I am hearing about this disaster. I am talking about both sides....

[OzMick]

There are many reasons to refuse - just as there are many reasons to accept.

Politics never seem fair when there are people suffering however it is a reality of the world.

Yes, as someone commented earlier, there is the fear that favors expect and sometimes even force to a degree payback, historically true. While that may not be the case here, it is a sad reality that such things probably should be considered. And the US while I am sure they meant well, it does not look good sending in the heavy military given past history for which they are officially classes as an agressor by many governments. They may have forgot but the rest of the world has not.

Yes, there is the "loss of face" issues too. And I feel these are probably most substantial. There are many people with a lot of pride and ego who think an uncomfortable situation is a small price to pay to keep that ego (and power) safe. Maybe there are even gains to the disaster for some! - such is any system of corruption.

The truth is we never know the whole story let alone the reasons behind them, all we can do is guess. No point being negative about it either, just have to get on and do our part, there are many of us already here with a lot of power to help - even if it's just to make those around us more comfortable and less stressed

So the Thais reject badly needed aid from the the "aggressive US military machine" but its OK for them to come on R&R, get drunk as monkeys and shag anything that will lie down and a few things that won't? Of course that's MONEY we're talking about, not just people's lives.

[thaiorchidsource]

Probably next to none, because the present government is doing a good job showing Thailand cannot handle this crisis and there will be backlash you can bet on that.

What are the chances the yellow shirts are using the floods for political gains?

[wintermute]

I have no issues with them rejecting aid. It seems like the officials are interested in cash only which makes sense if you have a bunch of corrupt kleptocrats in high positions. They are only looking at opportunities to stuff their pockets full of BMW/Mercedes fund money.

Frankly speaking I believe U.S. aid money could be better utilized elsewhere. If the Thai government doesn't want it that's fine.

[slapout]

One member mentioned that some potential contributors are being asked to contribute money instead of relief articles. Here in CM I have seen several individuals soliciting money for "Thai people", but have not heard nor seen any collection point for donated necessities.

Backhanders are probably not at the top of the agenda for many at present, but the resilience/longevity displayed by some would indicated they will catch up quickly. The record of handling of cash donations during/after past natural disasters should be a big red flag for all potential contributors.

Dunno about Chiang Mai, but I've seen collection points for supplies (mostly, bottled water, but also dry goods) in Mukdahan as well as Pattaya. What's wrong with the folks in the North?

As one CM member's wife commented Bangkok/Thai government did f..k all when and after Chiang Mai flooded. This could be a part of the answer to you question.

[rametindallas]

"On October 15, a small ten-man team of US Marines traveled to Thailand to deliver thousands of sandbags and to assess how the American military could help with relief efforts"

sending sandbags is the least, what US government should be doing, in such situation. Much more important are basic medical supplies, medicines and equipment.

but, of course, it's a very strange position, not to accept an offer of help. Those marines could be used in rescue work, which is so much needed.

looks, life thai foreign ministry made a big mistake, because there weren't any diplomatic favours in exchange for help.

When offers of help are made and accepted it does not come free as some would like to think, the helping countries send their over inflated invoices later. Why would anyone think these countries are being charitable? no they are waiting to make a quick buck.

Proof? Troll

[noitom]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

. . . I hope that I am wrong about this major disease thing, butwhen I see the Thai government refusing the aid of three or four US Navy shipsand personnel for two weeks, I have to resist the temptationr to do anything on their own and are stuck depending on a failed stateto help and communicate solutions.

Frankly, I don't know what to do about a nation whose priority during a time of crisis and evacuation is to give preference to parked cars on overpasses instead of supply and escape routes. That is absolute madness! And they could remedy the situation so easily. Just call in some tanks and/or bulldozers and push those cars off in the ditch in one or two spots and the rest of them would rush to clear out their cars in a minute.

"Unhealthy living conditions" is a mild definition of the problem - It's gargantuan. Disease and contamination is and has been the main issue. Astonishing how little has been mentioned about this in the Thai press. Hardly a word. It's rather obvious when you look at those photos of people in waist deep waste. Where are they urinating and defecating? Where are all those dogs urinating and defecating? right where they eat is the answer. Right where they are standing. What about the dead animal corpses of dogs and cows and horses that have just drowned or starved to death? Are they just decomposing in the flood water with all that fecal matter? Is that contaminated garbage, decomposed animals, and extensive fecal matter flood water flowing through hundreds of clinics and hospitals? This in an already suspect sanitary condition and unhygienic nation. I've seen photos of people preparing food in a make shift market with flood water up over their waste and others just waiting for the food. I don't see any sign of the government ever "cracking down" on sanitary conditions for as long as I can remember. Why should they worry now? Well , I hope I am wrong too, but we'll have to hope that there are no outbreaks of Cholera and Typhoid as well as many other outbreaks and health problems. Yet the newspapers still run articles promoting that travel is safe in many areas and tourism should be unaffected. Business news keeps promoting that we'll be re open for business in 45 days. The Thai flood disaster sets up a sitting duck health disaster with an unusually large scale. It just mystifies me as to how the government and business leadership could just ignore making preparations for human relocation on advance notice as well as put measures in place to offset the hygiene and health issues. In photographs, you can also note the dogs and cats being invited in to the temporary encampments at Tamest and Don Mooing and now being moved to National Stadium. I hope that I am wrong about this major disease thing, but when I see the Thai government refusing the aid of three or four US Navy ships and personnel, I have to resist the temptation, knowing Thais, is that they already know something we don't and they don't want outsiders being alerted to the scale of the problem. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the Thai people who had no power to do anything on their own and are stuck depending on a failed state to help.

[bangkokrick]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

[thaiorchidsource]

Its not just the Americans that do this. Look at the basic sex tourists, and the demographics of those types coming to Thailand. Americans always try to be charitable, and in this case Thailand saved us wackos some tax dollars. We Americans made the mistake at offering help, but I hope the mistake is not made twice.

There are many reasons to refuse - just as there are many reasons to accept.

Politics never seem fair when there are people suffering however it is a reality of the world.

Yes, as someone commented earlier, there is the fear that favors expect and sometimes even force to a degree payback, historically true. While that may not be the case here, it is a sad reality that such things probably should be considered. And the US while I am sure they meant well, it does not look good sending in the heavy military given past history for which they are officially classes as an agressor by many governments. They may have forgot but the rest of the world has not.

Yes, there is the "loss of face" issues too. And I feel these are probably most substantial. There are many people with a lot of pride and ego who think an uncomfortable situation is a small price to pay to keep that ego (and power) safe. Maybe there are even gains to the disaster for some! - such is any system of corruption.

The truth is we never know the whole story let alone the reasons behind them, all we can do is guess. No point being negative about it either, just have to get on and do our part, there are many of us already here with a lot of power to help - even if it's just to make those around us more comfortable and less stressed

So the Thais reject badly needed aid from the the "aggressive US military machine" but its OK for them to come on R&R, get drunk as monkeys and shag anything that will lie down and a few things that won't? Of course that's MONEY we're talking about, not just people's lives.

[BOS2BKK]

More disconcerting than which said yes and which said no....A high ranking member of the United States Department of Defense just publicly acknowledged that they have two separate and distinct channels of communication open with Thailand, presumably Military, and Political, who are openly in conflict with each other. That is not an indicator of peace and stability in the near future.

No. What is disconcerting is the nameless USDoD mouthpiece in the OP suddenly becoming 'high ranking' in your post. Do you watch Fox News a lot? As I see it, the US Navy was basically admitting they don't have an up to date "who's who" list for Thailand. You can get them on eBay.

What does Fox News have to do with anything?

I think for the US Navy to get a "who's who" list for the Thai government,the Thai government would have to agree on "who's who" Since we have one department ordering evacuations a week ago, then another saying that was an error, and there would be no flooding in Bangkok. The military trying to declare a state of emergency, and the new government refusing it. In order for there to be a "who's who" there has to be a functioning government to begin with. I think you can buy one on EBay.

[rametindallas]

I would be entirely unsurprised if the agenda behind this alleged rejection was to further undermine the current government. Of course the US government would never interfere like that, so maybe I am being paranoid. Possibly the Thais looked at the US efforts in Katrina and said "Thanks, but no thanks"?

BTW, if you want to look for examples of government's rejecting needed aid, look no further than the USA:

Katrina aid from Cuba? No thanks, says U.S. America welcomes foreign help, except from an old Cold War foe

http://www.msnbc.msn...thanks-says-us/

That was an offer of 1100 urgently needed English speaking doctors for Katrina. Hate to break it to you, but Thailand is far from the only nation that is worried about 'face'.

Looking at all these responses on this thread and others, so many people report these kinds of "well the US did the same thing"-style arguments. Yes, the US has refused certain foreign aid before, but, in the example you're pointing out here, don't you think that 1) the richest country in the world, with 2) the absolutely best trained doctors (whether US or foreign born) could and did organize a very robust response without the aid of other nations? The answer is "yes".

Can you make the argument for Thailand currently as to their ability to organize a robust response to the flooding? The answer is "no". And, therein lies the 'different', no? Two different disasters; two different abilities to respond. So, while your statement is true in the form of: IF A THEN B , it is NOT true in the form of: THEREFORE IF B THEN A.

Why do so many people enjoy criticizing the US in this matter? It's strange.

Because it seems to be the worlds hobby. Take or dont take aid, and complain about the US.

Example Indira Ghandi in India accepted millions of dollars in American aid, and then turned around and said bad things about them. That is not a way to show gratitude, nor is it a professional response of a national leader, she should have been ashamed.

As for PM Yingluck, i think she just wants to prove to everyone that she can handle the problem without help from anyone,[ no matter how many Thais have to die and be homeless and suffer from illness and poverty], in order to prove it.

I think you are exactly right. She doesn't even want help from the Thai military.

[wintermute]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

Isn't that the group of 10 marines that were allowed to help?

[gohmer]

Given how much the government has used the Thai military, is it any surprise that they refused the US military help?

Explain this comment, I don't get it. The US military is here on training missions every year as well as regular regional military exercieses. Most all the military equipment is US and if the US didn't come here, the Thai military wouldn't know which end of the barrel to point with.

Why would the Thai government avoid using the Thai military and then invite the US military to help?

Surely they don't fear a coup' from the US???

for what? Cheap women and som tom?

[rametindallas]

Just to play devils advocate here, the quote in the OP seems a bit odd:

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP

It is not clear if the 'government' bit was said at all as I have not seen anyone speak in brackets before.

There are posts here showing exsamples of the PM asking for help and the US military offering it before so could the branch ofd 'government' that is refusing help be the Thai military as the US military will obviously have high level contact with them directly due to the annual Cobra Gold exercises. There would also be the face issue as they would not want to see a foreign military doing what they are not capable of and, to be really cynical, would they really want a foreign military active on the streets of Bangkok if there wanted mount a coup to take control at some point.

Also it would be very difficult to overule the Thai military if they put a block on this without a major diplomatic incident (or indeed point the finger of blame!).

The Thai Military has historically close relations wiht the US Military so I'm pretty sure the veto didn't come from there, That leaves only the government that has lied and been paranoid that someone would find out how incompetent they are to be the ones to nix the help. If I am ever drowning, I don't care it it's Ahmadinajad who pulls me out of the water; I just want to be saved.

Exactly my point - the close ties between the two militaries would suggest that there was some contact between them over this so it is not unreasonable to assume that they are one of the two channels being refered to.

Since we are told that one party said yes and the other no then it is not implausible that it was the Thai military saying no, particulary since the PM has openly solicited US support a week or so ago. It the Thai military was the party saying yes to this and was overuled by the government then it would put the government in conflict with the military and I would assume somebody from the military would be pointing this out pretty soon.

I'm pretty sure Ms. Yingluck is still the supreme power at the moment and maybe the military is 'chomping at the bit' but the Thai military is deferring to the government at every turn now; at least publicly

[asiabill]

The Thai government is using the same common sense that it used to deal with the tsunami. Back then the Thais told the Americans and other glory seeking so-called donors to stick their promises where the sun don't shine. Thailand recuperated fairly rapidly. Those counting on Western promises of aid are still suffering. For a prime example of where American aid gets you take a look at Haiti. Thailand can look after itself and the further it keeps itself from American aid the better.

[bangkokrick]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

Isn't that the group of 10 marines that were allowed to help?

No idea, but it contradicts the OP if some US forces are helping.

[Just1Voice]

lensta

It's the same old "loss of Face" stupidity. When was the last time a Thai Government accepted the offer of help from foreign government? If they had called in people from foreign countries with experience in water management in low lying areas (Netherlandsto name one) many, many years ago, then perhaps this flood may have been less of a disaster than it is now. The least that could have been done was to make a study of other countries defenses against flooding and adapted them to suit Thailand.

Actually, not that long ago Thailand did invited a Dutch expert in to assess the situation and make recommendations as to what should/could be done. After 3 months of study he submitted his report. He was thanked, the report was placed on a shelf, or in a drawer, and ignored. (Source: the "other paper")

NanLaew file But there's loads of water here already. That's the main problem. Why on earth would Thailand want more?

Yeah, there’s “loads of water here”, but you can’t drink it, and stores have already run out of bottled water. We’re talking about thousands of gallons of Drinking Water EVERY DAY, which is, and will continue to be, desperately needed.

Cowslip

Thailand doesn't need major help and being seen to do so would be more than losing face, it would affect the country's international standing - credit, investment the baht etc - they didn't ask for aid at the time of the tsunami and they won't ask now. They have ample capital reserves anyhow.

the only aid they may ask for is in some specialist areas........ engineering, dykes, medical advice.

What would they do with a US ship?

Gee, I'm not sure, maybe THIS:

There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intended to do, bomb them?'

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: 'Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

Does THAT answer you question?

And for those of you who seem to think there is always some "hidden agenda" in American offers of help, you might want to consider this:

When in England, at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.<br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

He answered by saying, 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.'

Just a week or so ago there was an article in that "other paper" which stated the U.S. Military was sending 6 Marine Blackhawk helicopters to offer assistance, and there were 20 more on standby ready to be sent as well. 26 U.S. Marine and Navy Blackhawks would be capable of providing massive support in the way of delivering desperately needed medical supplies, food & water, as well as carrying a few thousand people every day to safety. I don't recall any mention of a "price tag" for this offer,or any "favors in return". But Miraculously Amazing Thailand has turned them down, as the "loss of face" by accepting such help is much more important than the loss of property and lives of thousands of Thai citizens.

[gohmer]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

Yeah, and now the Indian people are protesting and rioting the extreme corruption in that country, so using India as an example, just further justifies the claim of arrogant and stupid. Secondly, a military is a military. Only out of the goodness of a countries heart would there ever be the reason to employ a fighting military for good samaritan purposes, its not their mission.

There is no favor Thailand can do that would offset the cost of sailing an aircraft carrier to Thai waters and deploying all of its resources to help. And what if there was a hitch, so what, do you think the people who would be drinking clean water, getting medical attention, free relocation to safety by experts instead of Thais who will sit there and laugh when someone crashes on their motorbike? It is arrogant and stupid of people in the Thai gov't and this forum to snub their nose at needed help in the light of poor citizens dying, loosing their homes, their income, their possessions.

Edited October 25, 2011 by gohmer

[timberboy]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

Maybe after browsing this you might recant your comment

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/relation/timeline.html

[Buchholz]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

There is no USS Mustain in the U.S. Navy inventory.

There is a USS Mustin.

Apparently it has stayed in Thailand while the USS George Washington and its other escort ships have left Thailand and are bound for Japan.

[silverhawk_usa]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

[ElVez]

... it's all pretty disturbing ... can anyone comment on protocols that would warrant a UN intervention to prevent human disaster, without an invitation from the Thai government? ... at what point do Thais need to be protected from the Thais?

... these people seem just too incompetent to care for themselves ... freakishly incompetent

Is that irony or are you for real?

What you suggest? A no-fly zone?

Someone for whatever reason said to the US navy, thanks for your offer, but we don't need you at the moment.

The help offer was nice, but this thread if full of comments that show the ugly side the US sometimes is accused off.

[luckyman]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It's the same old "loss of Face" stupidity. When was the last time a Thai Government

accepted the offer of help from foreign government? If they had called in people from

foreign countries with experience in water management in low lying areas (Netherlands

to name one) many, many years ago, then perhaps this flood may have been less of a

disaster than it is now. The least that could have been done was to make a study of

other countries defenses against flooding and adapted them to suit Thailand.

In fact, experts from the Netherlands did get invited here, some even from the world famous TNO institute, a Dutch counter part of the American M.I.T.

They've been travelling to Thailand several times already the past three decades, giving advice and recommendations on flood management, flood wall construction, digging out canals and rivers and whatnot, but it seems that past Governments never have acted upon it.

[wintermute]

The Thai government is using the same common sense that it used to deal with the tsunami. Back then the Thais told the Americans and other glory seeking so-called donors to stick their promises where the sun don't shine. Thailand recuperated fairly rapidly. Those counting on Western promises of aid are still suffering. For a prime example of where American aid gets you take a look at Haiti. Thailand can look after itself and the further it keeps itself from American aid the better.

What are you yapping about? Thailand gladly accepted help during the tsunami because most of the aid came in the form of private (untraceable) donations which made its way into the bank accounts of corrupt officials. Government aid all over the world was accepted as well and a lot of those funds were pilfered. That's why most of the international aid for this current disaster is in the form of physical help which is now being rejected.

This constant conspiracy theories about U.S. interventionism and colonialism is nonsense. Maybe you Europeans here posting your rubbish should be a little less insecure about your diminished role in the world and go back to throwing E.U.resuscitation money into the Greek and Spanish black hole.

[xthAi76s]

We should send over some FEMA guys to help out....

You are joking, aren't you? Read this.

"After being roundly criticized in a slew of media, congressional and government reports, the Federal Emergency Management Agency's internal watchdog Friday returned its own verdict on the handling of Hurricane Katrina: The criticism against FEMA is largely deserved.

In a hefty 218-page report, the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general writes that the federal government and FEMA received "widespread criticism for a slow and ineffective response to Hurricane Katrina."

"Much of the criticism is warranted," Inspector General Richard L. Skinner writes.

The report gives an account of FEMA's recent history and response to Katrina, covering ground that has been well-plowed in recent months, although adding some details.

It describes manpower problems, a decline in planning for natural disasters as attention focused on possible terrorist scenarios, and confusion over the roles and responsibilities of officials in responding to disasters."

It would seem that the Americans are no better than the Thais in circumstances like this.

Once again with the 'Americans are no better' nonsense.

I've not seen any post here touting the Americans as perfect at handling mother nature. In fact, I've not seen such a claim made about any nation/government as such claims would be rather silly.

Now that the above is out of the way, there are a couple of pretty significant differences between these two disasters that you might agree with. They are the following:

1) The US had VERY LITTLE time with the events of Katrina. Certainly not more than a month as is the case here in Bangkok.

2) The US has a system in place -- one that you have pointed out here -- whereby criticisms (even SELF-criticisms) are allowed and can be learned from which is at least in some part due to a lacking of the childish, archaic notion and the misuse of 'face' here in Thailand.

So, it would stand to reason that FEMA could very well be much better off as a result of the events of Katrina.

Nobody is going to perfect when the world turns itself upside down. But, it's pretty interesting that so many await opportunities to degrade US contributions to the world and esp in humanitarian missions. Is it wrong to help or not?

If you want to criticize the US so badly, pick the proper topics and have the correct references and arguments. There are a whole host of things the US can do better, and everyone already knows that -- because the only alternative thinking would be to suggest that the US is perfect. We all got it. Let's move on from it, and criticize the Thais for, among many other things, their handling of their disaster & for their inability to 1) accept responsibility or 2) learn from or accept outside criticism. That's what we're talking about here, I believe.

[bangkokrick]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

There is no USS Mustain in the U.S. Navy inventory.

There is a USS Mustin.

Apparently it has stayed in Thailand while the USS George Washington and its other escort ships have left Thailand and are bound for Japan.

So now you expect me to be an expert on the US Navy fleet? I am just passing on updated news when it is relevant.

I humbly thank you for the correction an I hope you feel better now.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Recent tweet:

RT @KristieKenney: For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.

seems we have been misinformed.

Isn't that the group of 10 marines that were allowed to help?

No idea, but it contradicts the OP if some US forces are helping.

Misleading tweet - The Mustin is just here for a visit, not flood relief.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150420175288615

As to the marines helping who knows who they are? Operating out of Pattaya probably.

Edited October 25, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai