Why Do Foreigners Criticize Thailand?

[Heng]

In more than 30 years + I've never heard Thais 'slag-off' America...

The same. I've heard a taxi driver or two cheer on Bin Ladin, but most Thais (generalization, I know) that I know are pretty much indifferent to America and even falangs who are visiting/living here.

[Noel]

I don't hate my country, I just despair of it.

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I don't hate England, I'm just glad I'm not there.

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Clearly spoken by a kindred spirit...

[Neeranam]

Some people hate the English, but I don't. They're just wankkers

From trainspotting.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Neeranam

[cowboygwe]

Because most american are ignorant of what really goes on over seas. They do not expand their horizons to experience those things that can be better for you. Good and bad both. they are not well rounded and ignorance breed fear.

[snoophound]

Yep many americans had no idea where New Zealand was until XENA and Lord of the rings!!!

Because most american are ignorant of what really goes on over seas.  They do not expand their horizons to experience those things that can be better for you.  Good and bad both.  they are not well rounded and ignorance breed fear.

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[solo siam]

 

Yep many americans had no idea where New Zealand was until XENA and Lord of the rings!!!

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Now of course they know that New Zealand is somewhere in Middle-Earth.

[steveromagnino]

 

Yep many americans had no idea where New Zealand was until XENA and Lord of the rings!!!

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Now of course they know that New Zealand is somewhere in Middle-Earth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that Irish like to visit New Zealand, because they are always up for the crak. Of Doom.

I know all the surveys say 60%+ percent of Americans don't have a passport, and XX% don't know where XYZ country is, but how come everyone I met in Cali knows where NZed is, and a far few even know where Thailand is?

I wonder where all these ignorant ppl are living? Can an American comment on this? I assume somewhere in the mid west in the middle bit maybe?

More disturbingly, the number of NZers upon learning I am 1/2 Thai who say, when will I be bombing China/can I get them a cheap ACER, how come my Chinaman talk sounds funny - is there some atlas with Taiwan but missing Thailand??? Seems pretty common....

[haha]

my 2 cents...

I think most people criticize when they are frustrated about something.

it is normal for people from other countries to criticize things in a country that is not their home. everything is new to them, and they get frustrated.

when I first started traveling the world back in 1979, I recall myself criticizing things whereever I went whether it was the uk, china, italy, etc.

as I got older and more accustomed to traveling, I learned to be more tolerant and understanding of things in the world.

I think one of the most important things I have learned over the years is that the more time you spend being unhappy, the less time you have being happy.

at age 52, I calculate I may have only about 20 years to live. and of those 20 years, about 7 years is asleep leaving only 13 years of active living.

only 13 years left..

am I going to spend most of that valuable time complaining about the world????

no way, jose.

... to happy memories.

[Felix Lynn]

my 2 cents...

I think most people criticize when they are frustrated about something.

it is normal for people from other countries to criticize things in a country that is not their home.  everything is new to them, and they get frustrated.

when I first started traveling the world back in 1979, I recall myself criticizing things whereever I went whether it was the uk, china, italy, etc.

as I got older and more accustomed to traveling, I learned to be more tolerant and understanding of things in the world.

I think one of the most important things I have learned over the years is that the more time you spend being unhappy, the less time you have being happy.

at age 52, I calculate I may have only about 20 years to live.  and of those 20 years, about 7 years is asleep leaving only 13 years of active living.

only 13 years left..

am I going to spend most of that valuable time complaining about the world????

no way, jose.

... to happy memories.

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I like this guy!

[steveromagnino]

at age 52, I calculate I may have only about 20 years to live.  and of those 20 years, about 7 years is asleep leaving only 13 years of active living.

only 13 years left..

am I going to spend most of that valuable time complaining about the world????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't really get your point Haha.

Older people sleep less.

So maybe you can complain an hour a day, PROVIDED you are willing to sleep one hour less.

Therefore, you CAN have your cake, and eat it too. And then complain about it. Just trim off time for beddy byes.

Also, if you were to eat a diet rich in cheese, eggs, and other constipation enducing ingredients, you might be able to go to the toilet just once a year. Imagine. 5 minutes saved 364 days a year for extra whining!!!! And as they say, you could have some cheese with that whine.

And then... eating faster.

Not brushing your teeth or hair.

Inventing a lesbian robot to wash your dishes and put out the trash.

The time savings are considerable.

Never complain that there is no time to complain. The world is your oyster, Dear Haha, do your best to ruin it for others by incessant whining

[steveromagnino]

I get to know a lot of Thai graduate students who come to study in the UK. After seeing a front page in the "News of the World " (National Enquirer equivalent) about the Thai sex/child labour/whatever trade they always complain about farang criticising Thailand. It's only after they've been here for a couple of years and see that we criticise many things that they realise that the criticisms aren't aimed at Thailand itself but at the particular behaviour. It's quite gratifying to see how they open up and rid themselves of one of the most pernicious attributes that Thailand has to offer - that of kreng jai 

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Being open to criticism is a pretty different concept to greng jai or am I missing something?

Greng jai is actually a way to ensure people packed together (like in a village for instance) get along without driving eachother nuts. Why so many foreigners seem to have a problem with this, is IMHO greng jai is often used as an excuse not to do work/have a confrontation etc and to the western mind, this does not seem efficient use of time - "sort out the problem now and we'll make up after work with some beers"... can be done here, but need to tread carefully.

I've found that constant complainers here tend to struggle a bit - both Thai and westerners. People just turn off. However, people who choose their battles carefully, and plan a way to present their idea in the right way have just as much success changing things here as anywhere else. A LOT of foreigners come in here and just start mouthing off on all the many things that displease them; at some point people start to (sadly) stereotype and assume that the people from that country just complain, let's ignore them.

The sad thing about stereotypes, is we then selectively see evidence to back that up; as per the sex trade bit. They hear this bit, and then conclude that the world is against them. a part of the conflict resolution. After all, for many of the Thai girls studying overseas, to suddenly learn that their country which they always knew to have some minor sex thing going on is actually considered a sex capital of the world and there are some men actually assuming that they are also prostitutes etc etc can be somewhat of an eye opener.

So who might be guilty of complaining? English in NZ have that reputation for instance. Americans also often have that reputation as tourists. For instance, I cringe having to go out with some of my American friends from New York anywhere; their expectation of service and their response to what they receive is just sometimes not appropriate based on what they are paying and where they are located. And that's not just here in Thailand either.

If you take a complaint for what it is worth though, whittle through and it is a suggestion. Sort of. So why is it that these complaints don't get sorted?

One of the key differences is that introducing competition, eliminating monopolies and deregulation with the consequent open and transparent operating systems are a great check for how things are really going. You don't do a good job, you suffer financially. But because Thailand has not done that in many sectors (civil service, power, water, etc) there are lots of places where considerable improvement is needed.

Also, often the suggestions, while well meaning are either to someone who cannot change or alter the system (and therefore the complaint is just wasting 2 people's time - a concept many foreigners would do well to remember) or are of minor consequence with regards to the big picture or are great ideas but the organisation or group just has no incentive to improve.

This idea that Thai people don't complain. Never observed it myself. Hear complaints all the time. But the key thing is, Thai people tend to complain less when they feel their complaint will fall on deaf ears. And of course there sometimes can be the issue of greng jai.

[Greer]

It is common throughout Asia that people don't understand the concept of constructive criticism, and therefore dislike hearing it as they often take it as a personal insult.

I have lived in Asia for many years now, and although I do understand this, it is damned difficult to simply not say anything at all when confronted with a situation that could be improved.

I think it is often a type of confirmation that we are looking for too - it is common to be critical of things even when we know that nothing we say at the time or to that person, will make any real difference - but we still like to share the feelings and "get it off our chest"...and I defy any farang to say they don't do this - it is quite normal in our society - and it is a safety valve too - let off steam and you will feel much easier about things in general.

The problem is the cultural difference - the locals will be kreng jai and not say anything, but will "take the feelings on board" and get annoyed in turn, but having no civilised way to express the feelings, they seem to bottle it all up. Thus they feel insulted and this is further enhanced by the anger or discomfort of not being able to say anything back (although my wife doesn't usually have any problem wiuth this...)

In summary, criticism in Asia is only very rarely understood as containing anything positive at all, and is more usually seen as an attack on the person, the country, the government and/or leaders. Telling the locals that one is critical because one cares is completely misunderstood - they feel it is better, if you care, to leave people the way they are - don't upset anyone - kreng jai again...argh!

By the way - a bit off topic, but regarding the statement by someone earlier about so much inventiveness in the UK and the Australians just opening another beer - go to Google and search on "Australian Inventions"...you will be extremely surprised, I guarantee it...

There - a bit of nationalistic pride - but I am still incredibly critical of Australia - and I CHOSE to live in Thailand because I love the place, and consider it MY HOME.

I support our country, but I am not blind to it's faults.

[Felix Lynn]

Some really great responses here, especially the last two. ######, I wish we were a live call in show.

[Guest endure]

By the way - a bit off topic, but regarding the statement by someone earlier about so much inventiveness in the UK and the Australians just opening another beer - go to Google and search on "Australian Inventions"...you will be extremely surprised, I guarantee it...

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You mean Victoria Bitter and the dunney?

I'll get me coat...

[Neeranam]

By the way - a bit off topic, but regarding the statement by someone earlier about so much inventiveness in the UK and the Australians just opening another beer - go to Google and search on "Australian Inventions"...you will be extremely surprised, I guarantee it...

To get even more off topic - I bet it was an Englishman who spoke of the inventiveness of the UK . There is one country miles ahead of the others when you think of the population and the important discoveries of the last 100 - 200 years.

Telephone, tv, steam engine, logarithms and the decimal notation, bicycle, penicillin, US Navy, Bank of England, car tyre, modern Japan, bourbon, golf etc. In fact this country of 5 million or less than 0.5 % of the world invented the modern world.

[zzap]

Which country would that be?

Please enlighten us with your wisdom!

[WhiteShiva]

I support our country, but I am not blind to it's faults.

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Summons up the way I feel about Thailand, actually.

Great post BTW, Greer!

[Neeranam]

Which country would that be?

Please enlighten us with your wisdom!

You're joking, right?

Alexander Graham Bell, John Logie Baird, Hamish Jock McTavish

Edited December 2, 2005 by Neeranam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

my 2 cents...

I think most people criticize when they are frustrated about something.

it is normal for people from other countries to criticize things in a country that is not their home.  everything is new to them, and they get frustrated.

when I first started traveling the world back in 1979, I recall myself criticizing things whereever I went whether it was the uk, china, italy, etc.

as I got older and more accustomed to traveling, I learned to be more tolerant and understanding of things in the world.

I think one of the most important things I have learned over the years is that the more time you spend being unhappy, the less time you have being happy.

at age 52, I calculate I may have only about 20 years to live.  and of those 20 years, about 7 years is asleep leaving only 13 years of active living.

only 13 years left..

am I going to spend most of that valuable time complaining about the world????

no way, jose.

... to happy memories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like this guy!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's right on target Felix.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

By the way - a bit off topic, but regarding the statement by someone earlier about so much inventiveness in the UK and the Australians just opening another beer - go to Google and search on "Australian Inventions"...you will be extremely surprised, I guarantee it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean Victoria Bitter and the dunney?

I'll get me coat...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Baal]

Why are foreigners so negative about Thailand?

It's the media's fault

cv

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Right! I'm just glad internet radio hosts aren't consider "real" media.

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Enjoy it while you can, Bloggers are now considered journalist and quite a few have recieved "press credentials".

[Baal]

Because most american are ignorant of what really goes on over seas.  They do not expand their horizons to experience those things that can be better for you.  Good and bad both.  they are not well rounded and ignorance breed fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, I would love to take a video into the hills of just about any country and do such a survey.

I wonder how many Thai Farmers could point to Miami on a map.

Your statement ignorant, and a product of fear.

[Baal]

The thread lives beyond the show!

What I tried to get at on Thailand Today, was that the way the western mind works, criticism is inevitable. The western mind works in a analytical, critical way. We look at things, find fault and offer suggestions on how to improve them. Sometimes our offers sound negative. Sometimes they are! But it's how we think. We are taught critical thinking.

Americans like to fix things.