Floods In The Old Days Were Much More Fun

[webfact]

GUEST COLUMN

Floods in the old days were much more fun

David Lyman

How did we deal with the floods in the "old days"?

Well, for the most part Bangkokians drove or waded through them. The floods were usually localised and with some exceptions, were drained through Bangkok's then many functioning and clear klongs (canals) into the Chao Phraya River and thence to the sea and were gone in a matter of days. As the heavy rains from monsoons and typhoons fell and the tides became high, filling the streets with water, awaiting the rains to stop and tides to subside, kids swam and played in the water. The population accepted the floods as inevitable and a nuisance, though not too disruptive. In a manner of speaking, they were fun times, full of opportunities to complain, to laugh, were good gambits for conversation. After all, floods and droughts have been a way of life for centuries in Thailand. The causes and cures thereof were rarely addressed with any sustained interest.

When in the 1950s my family was looking for a change of residence from Krung Kasem Road to a place nearer to my father's office on Hong Kong Bank Lane, off New Road, my father refused to move to Sukhumvit Road because the sois leading off Sukhumvit and Rama IV roads weren't paved. In the rainy season these sois were seas of mud. So we ended up on Soi Polo, near the Polo Club, for 32 years until both my parents had passed on.

Some of the low-lying parts of Bangkok, with the city already built on a flood plain, especially in the eastern suburbs, in the 1960s and 1970s and on into the 1980s, were quickly inundated and remained underwater for many weeks. The water table there was being depleted by drawing fresh water from some 14,000 artesian wells. The area was measured as sinking at about the same rate that a child grows. After the initial calamity of a new flood, the suburbs' plight was not really deemed newsworthy.

And so was then born the concept of protecting Bangkok at the expense of sacrificing the surrounding provinces to absorb the floodwaters.

Where the floods hit upcountry - that's any direction away from Bangkok - that was agricultural land and the flooded-out farmers were essentially ignored and suffered usually stoically. Farmers whose crops were devastated were given token compensation by the authorities. Not fair, of course, but the governments of the day were not really disaster prevention or mitigation conscious. Lip service was paid, yes, after the fact and until memories faded.

I have a March 1994 UNDP and Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) report prepared by the Asian Disaster Preparedness Centre, which then identified some three dozen laws, nine ministries, 20 departments and 10 committees that were tasked to deal with disaster management in the Kingdom. This meant, obviously, that "disaster management" was then, and remains today, an oxymoron. In the intervening 18 years to the present, little has changed except that there are now more laws and more assigned agencies and more uninformed and unqualified interfering politicians involved.

I recall reading another report that focused on the management of the Chao Phraya River - at least some 40 different government units had varying degrees of jurisdiction and responsibility for what happened on and to the river. Hence no one was in charge and no one was responsible.

I'm probably being cynical, but I have a feeling that there are file rooms full of studies on disaster management risks, policies, strategies, structures and coordination that were commissioned but the recommendations embodied therein were not implemented with any sincerity or sustainability. Too bad, as I also suspect that there are many fine people assigned to concerned agencies who have long been frustrated by lack of commitment and political will to make the system work effectively and efficiently.

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping. Experience has proven the validity of this axiom. But the trend today by the politicians is really neither, rather being addressed to maintaining an untarnished image of Thailand in the rest of the world.

The scale, scope and volume of this year's deluge far exceed the floods of the past. The damages sustained during the past floods pale in comparison to the calamity of this current event. And the floods of today are far from over. They have so far covered about a third of the country and are still flowing south towards the sea. I won't discuss the ever-evolving extent of the current floods, which are well reported by the local and international press.

David Lyman is CEO of the law firm Tilleke & Gibbons.

-- The Nation 2011-10-29

[David48]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

That's the quote from the article that best sums up the current situation for me.

-

[rogerdee123]

Good article good post ... we need more like this.

[noitom]

This is a very thoughtful article. What's unconscionable about the Thai government and Thai private sector leadership is the lack of flood health and safety precautions made available to its public over the years and particularly from two months ago when it became evident that there was/is a monumental disaster. Where have the top twenty Thai companies been before and during this national emergency? Red Bull, CPGroup, Singha, Thai Air, Preuksa, Seafresh, Bangkok Bank, SCB, Ayudha, PTT, True, AIS, Siam Cement, Central Group...etc.? What did they do to prepare their employees, stockholders, and community constituents? With or without government, you would expect these corporate leaders to initiate action, education, and training. Don't let them "blame" others and government. It's a certainty that CP and Red Bull and all the others don't rely on government to predict the weather and manage their farm crops, sugar, Thai Air, their flights. Don't let them blame it on Thai culture, and political bickering and protocol. Thai law firms and influencers have to start taking ownership of being public about denouncing their behavior.

The government/s of course through the years are detestable for their lack of responsibility in not making Thai people aware of the dangers and risks of floods for health and safety. It's easy to see. Check out the Internet. There is an abundance of information available. What would have prevented some of these "blue chip" Thai companies from producing a simple two sided laminated flood safety and health dos and don'ts card just like those that you find in behind every seat on an airline? One of the points on these cards, had they been produced, might have been don't park your car and abandon it on expressways and freeways. We need access to those elevated roads to save lives and provide emergency vehicles for health and evacuation. The Thai newspapers are another detestable entity. Headlining panic headlines like Thonburi "doomed", Thai "flee" the city. The dangers and risks to health and safety go far beyond personal property and it seems that no influential entity - government, press, or corporate had any leadership at all or just did not care about its people and it was every man for himself. Countless photographs appeared in the Thai press showing people in water flooded Chinatown dwellings watching TV and using hair dryers. Warnings and clear education on electrical risk were no where to be found in the newspapers or training and education from two months ago or ever apparently. There were numerous photos in the Thai press illustrating children "playing" in waste deep filthy flood water. Many showing people carrying dogs in filthy flood water, and setting up and making and serving and eating food while up to their waists in waste filthy flood water. All of this could have been minimized with the proper investment in education and training relating to health and safety.

We have to ask ourselves the question, does Thai public and private leadership really care at all about its people if there is no visible evidence of care and precaution as a "preventive" measure? How much effort was made to inform the Thai public repetitively about safety and health precaution such as electrocution, flood caused diseases such as Cholera, Leptospirosis, Typhoid, basic GI sickness and skin disorders, Dengue and other insect and water borne risks? How much effort was provided by top Thai companies in planning employee continuity and relocation? Just think about these questions when you look at all those news photos of Thais in waste contaminated flood water with rat urine, dog feces, human feces and decomposing animal corpses. I feel terrible for the Thai people who are now stuck with the aftermath of a munmental health and safety disaster without leadership and information that they depending on their leaders to provide. There is no excuse and no rationalization for the lack of relatively inexpensive education, preparation , training, and information for the great health and safety dangers inherent in floods. Not much could be done that wasn't already done to physically attempt to secure a place like Bangkok with its unique topology. But what about the millions of Thais outside Bangkok and the innocent public that relied on their leaders for health, safety, and welfare in terms of emergency evacuation? This lack of concern for health and safety and the seriousness of the flood's aftermath are is preposterous.

[sirchai]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

[ARGUSEYE]

"In the old days floods were much more fun" was the title of this thread.

How true!

In 1985, when BKK had a bad flash flood (The press said at that time "The biggest flood in living memory, the most rain in a hundred years"). Rama 4 Road, Lumpini Park, Sathorn Rd. was all one big lake, the fish from Lumpini Park swam on Wireless Road on the way to Sukhumvit.

At that time I lived in Soi Ngam Duplee and had a sweetheart in Pat Pong. (OK, she worked in an upstairs bar...) But imagine, in one of those flooded nights she waded with me (no transport available) back all the way to Soi Ngam Duplee through knee - deep murky water.

I can't see this happening in the year 2011... Do they ever walk more than a hundred Meters even in dry conditions nowadays??

And it WAS fun!

[Boksida]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

[yumidesign]

"In the old days floods were much more fun" was the title of this thread.

How true!

In 1985, when BKK had a bad flash flood (The press said at that time "The biggest flood in living memory, the most rain in a hundred years"). Rama 4 Road, Lumpini Park, Sathorn Rd. was all one big lake, the fish from Lumpini Park swam on Wireless Road on the way to Sukhumvit.

At that time I lived in Soi Ngam Duplee and had a sweetheart in Pat Pong. (OK, she worked in an upstairs bar...) But imagine, in one of those flooded nights she waded with me (no transport available) back all the way to Soi Ngam Duplee through knee - deep murky water.

I can't see this happening in the year 2011... Do they ever walk more than a hundred Meters even in dry conditions nowadays??

And it WAS fun!

also

the never ending headlines of the worst wet season in what ever the converse is that it is also the best monsoon season for decades as the floods bring the riches of nutrients to the fields providing greater yields and the need of less expensive fertilizers to boot the dead putrid black water and its evil contents are flushed. Its nature its a natural event. The real disaster is how it has been mismanaged and how this will destroy large parts of the economy and no one will be held accountable

[OM3N]

here is a great video of flooding in BKK circa 1942.

[Misterwhisper]

here is a great video of flooding in BKK circa 1942.

That is an amazing video. Even MPs arrived by boat - and smiled.

[tommet]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

[anselpixel]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

[harrry]

A few new factors since 1950:

1: Much greater population density.

2: On ground housing rather than raised.

3: Much more reliance on electricity for pumps, cooling, cooking and maintaining food.

[overherebc]

"In the old days floods were much more fun" was the title of this thread.

How true!

In 1985, when BKK had a bad flash flood (The press said at that time "The biggest flood in living memory, the most rain in a hundred years"). Rama 4 Road, Lumpini Park, Sathorn Rd. was all one big lake, the fish from Lumpini Park swam on Wireless Road on the way to Sukhumvit.

At that time I lived in Soi Ngam Duplee and had a sweetheart in Pat Pong. (OK, she worked in an upstairs bar...) But imagine, in one of those flooded nights she waded with me (no transport available) back all the way to Soi Ngam Duplee through knee - deep murky water.

I can't see this happening in the year 2011... Do they ever walk more than a hundred Meters even in dry conditions nowadays??

And it WAS fun!

also

the never ending headlines of the worst wet season in what ever the converse is that it is also the best monsoon season for decades as the floods bring the riches of nutrients to the fields providing greater yields and the need of less expensive fertilizers to boot the dead putrid black water and its evil contents are flushed. Its nature its a natural event. The real disaster is how it has been mismanaged and how this will destroy large parts of the economy and no one will be held accountable

When I saw your words 'putrid back water' it reminded of the first or second time I visited ( pre-marraige) my in-laws in BKK. Not far from the back of the house and hidden behind a two metre wall is a stinking black non-moving klong. When I mentioned it to my wife later she told me that when she was very young, a long time ago, she could sit with her friends and sisters and count the different fish and marine life in it. It used to self clean every year until, she thinks, the early eighties.

Falling in it now I'm sure would be a death sentence.

[Fookhaht]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

That's the quote from the article that best sums up the current situation for me.

-

In contrast, the Japanese are incessant planners. It's not unusual for Japanese companies to have 20-30-50 year business plans. The Japanese government regularly plans multiple decades into the future (and acts on it). That's why Japan today has one of the worlds best construction standards for earthquake prevention (and it's enforced!). It's no surprise why the Japanese investors/factory managers are livid at Thailand's lack of flood preparation here.

Of course, even nature can overwhelm the best-laid plans. If it weren't for Japan's own recent calamities with Mother Nature, their level of anger with Thailand would probably be somewhere in the stratosphere--enough to pull out all their operations. I think Thailand is luck that they have some measure of sympathy from Japan due to Mother Nature's timing of the last few natural disasters in both Japan and here.

[khunPer]

Thanks - a very good and interesting column.

[tgeezer]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

That is interesting I read that completely differently: I read that the poster was suggesting that the Thai lack planning ability was because of the the way they are taught. Certainly copying doesn't encourage innovation.

[FOODLOVER]

When i was a kid we had to swim 5 miles up hill both ways to school, and we liked it!

Edited October 29, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[harrry]

When i was a kid we had to swim 5 miles up hill both ways to school, and we liked it!

The swimming uphill was ok...but fighting off the crocodiles and sharks at the same time was hell.

[jaywalker]

"here is a great video of flooding in BKK circa 1942. click "

Great video Dude!

I love the pith helmets.... Don't know why but they always looked cool in the movies.

Looks like far more people had sampans than cars back then. Far more klongs for then to navigate in & probably 1/10th the population & pollution of today.

Thanks for the Way-Back ride!

[katana]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

lol

[Gonsalviz]

This is a very thoughtful article. What's unconscionable about the Thai government and Thai private sector leadership is the lack of flood health and safety precautions made available to its public over the years and particularly from two months ago when it became evident that there was/is a monumental disaster. Where have the top twenty Thai companies been before and during this national emergency? Red Bull, CPGroup, Singha, Thai Air, Preuksa, Seafresh, Bangkok Bank, SCB, Ayudha, PTT, True, AIS, Siam Cement, Central Group...etc.? What did they do to prepare their employees, stockholders, and community constituents? With or without government, you would expect these corporate leaders to initiate action, education, and training. Don't let them "blame" others and government. It's a certainty that CP and Red Bull and all the others don't rely on government to predict the weather and manage their farm crops, sugar, Thai Air, their flights. Don't let them blame it on Thai culture, and political bickering and protocol. Thai law firms and influencers have to start taking ownership of being public about denouncing their behavior.

The government/s of course through the years are detestable for their lack of responsibility in not making Thai people aware of the dangers and risks of floods for health and safety. It's easy to see. Check out the Internet. There is an abundance of information available. What would have prevented some of these "blue chip" Thai companies from producing a simple two sided laminated flood safety and health dos and don'ts card just like those that you find in behind every seat on an airline? One of the points on these cards, had they been produced, might have been don't park your car and abandon it on expressways and freeways. We need access to those elevated roads to save lives and provide emergency vehicles for health and evacuation. The Thai newspapers are another detestable entity. Headlining panic headlines like Thonburi "doomed", Thai "flee" the city. The dangers and risks to health and safety go far beyond personal property and it seems that no influential entity - government, press, or corporate had any leadership at all or just did not care about its people and it was every man for himself. Countless photographs appeared in the Thai press showing people in water flooded Chinatown dwellings watching TV and using hair dryers. Warnings and clear education on electrical risk were no where to be found in the newspapers or training and education from two months ago or ever apparently. There were numerous photos in the Thai press illustrating children "playing" in waste deep filthy flood water. Many showing people carrying dogs in filthy flood water, and setting up and making and serving and eating food while up to their waists in waste filthy flood water. All of this could have been minimized with the proper investment in education and training relating to health and safety.

We have to ask ourselves the question, does Thai public and private leadership really care at all about its people if there is no visible evidence of care and precaution as a "preventive" measure? How much effort was made to inform the Thai public repetitively about safety and health precaution such as electrocution, flood caused diseases such as Cholera, Leptospirosis, Typhoid, basic GI sickness and skin disorders, Dengue and other insect and water borne risks? How much effort was provided by top Thai companies in planning employee continuity and relocation? Just think about these questions when you look at all those news photos of Thais in waste contaminated flood water with rat urine, dog feces, human feces and decomposing animal corpses. I feel terrible for the Thai people who are now stuck with the aftermath of a munmental health and safety disaster without leadership and information that they depending on their leaders to provide. There is no excuse and no rationalization for the lack of relatively inexpensive education, preparation , training, and information for the great health and safety dangers inherent in floods. Not much could be done that wasn't already done to physically attempt to secure a place like Bangkok with its unique topology. But what about the millions of Thais outside Bangkok and the innocent public that relied on their leaders for health, safety, and welfare in terms of emergency evacuation? This lack of concern for health and safety and the seriousness of the flood's aftermath are is preposterous.

If you haven't figured it out by now, do us all a favor and just go home.

[Gonsalviz]

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Some maybe. My wife, being part of the lesser educated of the Thai system, refused to be limited by that system. There are some that just refuse to be held down. She, for my luck (and hers) is one that refused to be limited by her education.

[Gonsalviz]

"here is a great video of flooding in BKK circa 1942. click "

Great video Dude!

I love the pith helmets.... Don't know why but they always looked cool in the movies.

Looks like far more people had sampans than cars back then. Far more klongs for then to navigate in & probably 1/10th the population & pollution of today.

Thanks for the Way-Back ride!

In 1978, the Tapi river in Surat was a virtual taxi service back and forth. There was a bridge but without a car it was easier to use the river. My SIL work on a barge selling fuel to boats. Obviuosly that is gone now,

[Gonsalviz]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

That's the quote from the article that best sums up the current situation for me.

-

In contrast, the Japanese are incessant planners. It's not unusual for Japanese companies to have 20-30-50 year business plans. The Japanese government regularly plans multiple decades into the future (and acts on it). That's why Japan today has one of the worlds best construction standards for earthquake prevention (and it's enforced!). It's no surprise why the Japanese investors/factory managers are livid at Thailand's lack of flood preparation here.

Of course, even nature can overwhelm the best-laid plans. If it weren't for Japan's own recent calamities with Mother Nature, their level of anger with Thailand would probably be somewhere in the stratosphere--enough to pull out all their operations. I think Thailand is luck that they have some measure of sympathy from Japan due to Mother Nature's timing of the last few natural disasters in both Japan and here.

Yes, the Japanese are incessant planners. What is new. And Yes, those long range plans are almost always wrong, so they constantly are revising. They spend so much time on long range plans and revising that they miss most of life.

[Gonsalviz]

When i was a kid we had to swim 5 miles up hill both ways to school, and we liked it!

The swimming uphill was ok...but fighting off the crocodiles and sharks at the same time was hell.

[phaethon]

There is a marker post outside the National Museum which shows the flood levels for three of the major floods in the past:

What Isn't clear is what the numbers mean, it can't 37.xxx meters, if they are cm or (horror of horrors) inches why would they record to three decimal places? The decimal places might be cm of flood, but what does the 37 mean?

[Fookhaht]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

That's the quote from the article that best sums up the current situation for me.

-

In contrast, the Japanese are incessant planners. It's not unusual for Japanese companies to have 20-30-50 year business plans. The Japanese government regularly plans multiple decades into the future (and acts on it). That's why Japan today has one of the worlds best construction standards for earthquake prevention (and it's enforced!). It's no surprise why the Japanese investors/factory managers are livid at Thailand's lack of flood preparation here.

Of course, even nature can overwhelm the best-laid plans. If it weren't for Japan's own recent calamities with Mother Nature, their level of anger with Thailand would probably be somewhere in the stratosphere--enough to pull out all their operations. I think Thailand is luck that they have some measure of sympathy from Japan due to Mother Nature's timing of the last few natural disasters in both Japan and here.

Yes, the Japanese are incessant planners. What is new. And Yes, those long range plans are almost always wrong, so they constantly are revising. They spend so much time on long range plans and revising that they miss most of life.

Is that why they have the world's most advanced rail system, communications system, air transportation system, city administration system, etc. etc. Most of which leave most western countries in a distant second place?

Maybe they "miss most of life," but planners worldwide could learn from them. They have the infrastructure to back up my assertion that they are planners, and they produce results.

[joe beets]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

In contrast, the Japanese are incessant planners. It's not unusual for Japanese companies to have 20-30-50 year business plans. The Japanese government regularly plans multiple decades into the future (and acts on it). That's why Japan today has one of the worlds best construction standards for earthquake prevention (and it's enforced!). It's no surprise why the Japanese investors/factory managers are livid at Thailand's lack of flood preparation here.

Of course, even nature can overwhelm the best-laid plans. If it weren't for Japan's own recent calamities with Mother Nature, their level of anger with Thailand would probably be somewhere in the stratosphere--enough to pull out all their operations. I think Thailand is luck that they have some measure of sympathy from Japan due to Mother Nature's timing of the last few natural disasters in both Japan and here.

Yes, the Japanese are incessant planners. What is new. And Yes, those long range plans are almost always wrong, so they constantly are revising. They spend so much time on long range plans and revising that they miss most of life.

Is that why they have the world's most advanced rail system, communications system, air transportation system, city administration system, etc. etc. Most of which leave most western countries in a distant second place?

Maybe they "miss most of life," but planners worldwide could learn from them. They have the infrastructure to back up my assertion that they are planners, and they produce results.

Oh, the Japanese, of course, quite right.

For a minute there..

[4evermaat]

One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping.

That's the quote from the article that best sums up the current situation for me.

-

In contrast, the Japanese are incessant planners. It's not unusual for Japanese companies to have 20-30-50 year business plans. The Japanese government regularly plans multiple decades into the future (and acts on it). That's why Japan today has one of the worlds best construction standards for earthquake prevention (and it's enforced!). It's no surprise why the Japanese investors/factory managers are livid at Thailand's lack of flood preparation here.

Of course, even nature can overwhelm the best-laid plans. If it weren't for Japan's own recent calamities with Mother Nature, their level of anger with Thailand would probably be somewhere in the stratosphere--enough to pull out all their operations. I think Thailand is luck that they have some measure of sympathy from Japan due to Mother Nature's timing of the last few natural disasters in both Japan and here.

Yes, the Japanese are incessant planners. What is new. And Yes, those long range plans are almost always wrong, so they constantly are revising. They spend so much time on long range plans and revising that they miss most of life.

+1. I think another article or forum pointed out that if Thailand were to do the "incessant" amount of planing and building into their infrastructure like Japan, the cost of living, suicide rates, etc would also increase. It's the dualism of the choice between what you want and what you need. It is very easy to confuse wants and needs, especially at the level of the mind. Japan is the way they are and Thailand is the way they are also.