Pacquiao Vs Marquez

[WebBangkok]

<br />here is the fight that fans want to see....instead team pac-man is making excuses and taking a runner on this one<br /><a href='http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=14429' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=14429<br /></a><a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTWylfLdCcc' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sTWylfLdCcc</a><br />if he wants to be great, do the drug test, beat this martinez, knock out mayweather and fight one last time against a top notch opponent before retiring.....<br /><br /><br />btw look at the combined record of the last 5 guys martinez fought....all quality guys at the top of their game.....he takes on all comers<br />

lol Your kidding right?

You want Pac to fight someone 2 divisions above him? Pac can barely make 147 pounds, if Martinez came down to 147 then it should be ok. But Martinez already stated he can not make 147 pounds.

There is no young guns left, maybe Bradley, but he is overated, Berto is the same. I don't think Pac really needs to fight for legacy anymore, a couple of fight left with big pay days before he retires is what will happen, same with Floyd.

Also why does he need to do a drug test to fight Martinez? So you think Pac should take a drug test that no other boxer has to take because Floyd said so? He already agreed to it to fight floyd, why does he have to do it for other fighters? He is not chasing a fight with them, they want to fight him for a pay day.

[WebBangkok]

<br />you should respond to the points raised....which you clearly haven't done....in boxing I think they would call it punching above your weight/knowledge class, an expert you are not. Do not feel bad, just do more research before discussing topics where you are clearly out of your depth<br /><br />

<br />

<br />the fact that you never hear about galaxy speaks volumes about your knowledge of boxing<br />Thai boxers generally have no say who or where they fight as they are controlled by a network of handlers businessmen etc<br />Therefore to say he did not want to fight is just nonsense<br />Galaxy along with all of the other fighters I mentioned would have knocked Pacquiao out due to his crap defense(which is improving but goes out the window when he gets hit)<br />Here is a homework assignment for you , name the <u>great fighters</u> who Pacquiao has beaten when they were at the top of their game......<br />is there even one? the last time he fought a guy in his prime was morales in 2005 and guess what he lost heavily!<br />6 years of looking for easy fights has padded his record<br />He should come clean on the drug testing as well.<br />Respect must be earned ......<br />

<br /><br />Here we go - as always in these arguments - anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know jack about boxing. The forums are full of "experts" like you going back and forth on arguments about who is the greatest....<br /><br />You're beating to your own drum here and you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but the point remains, your Thai boxer had never tested himself adequately to be able to compare himself with the greatest - Manny Pacquiao.  <br /><br />Padding his career? You can't be serious - you must be fantasizing.<br />

<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ok I will have a go.

Galaxy, please tell me how many greats he beat?

You say everyone in boxing knows him, do you think any of the experts would seriously say he would beat Pac easy without laughing?

[tailspin]

Don't get me wrong, I like pacman but I want to see him push himself towards greatness, not fight all these washed up guys. His promoters are holding him back.

If he voluntarily does the drug test and makes a big show about it, then mayweather will have to come forward. You still haven't completed your homework assignment on digging out your reference on the "common knowledge" you mentioned

Good debate running here on galaxy, pacman, and the great Filipino Pancho Villa

http://answers.yahoo...06063525AAsXBWN

Talking about resumes, look at some of hatton's opponents

He fought various guys with records like, 8-48, 14-36, 15-25, 47-25, but my fav, 17-72!!!!!!!(did this guy have a heartbeat before he got in the ring)....btw that guy's record is now 24-141, and he once lost 33 straight fights..human punching bag

<br />you should respond to the points raised....which you clearly haven't done....in boxing I think they would call it punching above your weight/knowledge class, an expert you are not. Do not feel bad, just do more research before discussing topics where you are clearly out of your depth<br /><br />

<br />

<br />the fact that you never hear about galaxy speaks volumes about your knowledge of boxing<br />Thai boxers generally have no say who or where they fight as they are controlled by a network of handlers businessmen etc<br />Therefore to say he did not want to fight is just nonsense<br />Galaxy along with all of the other fighters I mentioned would have knocked Pacquiao out due to his crap defense(which is improving but goes out the window when he gets hit)<br />Here is a homework assignment for you , name the <u>great fighters</u> who Pacquiao has beaten when they were at the top of their game......<br />is there even one? the last time he fought a guy in his prime was morales in 2005 and guess what he lost heavily!<br />6 years of looking for easy fights has padded his record<br />He should come clean on the drug testing as well.<br />Respect must be earned ......<br />

<br /><br />Here we go - as always in these arguments - anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know jack about boxing. The forums are full of "experts" like you going back and forth on arguments about who is the greatest....<br /><br />You're beating to your own drum here and you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but the point remains, your Thai boxer had never tested himself adequately to be able to compare himself with the greatest - Manny Pacquiao. <br /><br />Padding his career? You can't be serious - you must be fantasizing.<br />

<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ok I will have a go.

Galaxy, please tell me how many greats he beat?

You say everyone in boxing knows him, do you think any of the experts would seriously say he would beat Pac easy without laughing?

Edited November 12, 2011 by tailspin

[WebBangkok]

Pac and Arum Agree to random tests link.http://www.boxingnews24.com/2011/07/bob-arum-agrees-to-random-blood-testing-for-pacquiao/Hatton only started fighting decent opponents a few years before he beat an aging Tszyu which the ref let him get away with fouling Tszyu the whole fight. Hatton was a good fighter though.You can pick apart anyones resume really.Dela Hoya: lost all his biggest fights and the ones he did win he got gift decisions.Mosley: How long was he on EPO?Mayweather: Castillo beat him the firts fight, Corrales was weight drained, Hatton not at natural weight etc etc.Roy Jones: Fought guys weight drained or not in his peakLewis: Never beat anyone in there primes, Vitali had him out on his feet before the fight was stopped on cuts.See you can pretty much do that with any fighter and it has been done to most greats.

[WebBangkok]

Also what is so special about Martinez.He beat an overrated Williams who beat him in the first fight and struggled against Darren Barker for Christ sake.Only reason why Martinez beats Pac or Floyd is due to size, not skill.

[Old Man River]

Just a little update, according to the GF the fight will be shown on channel 7 the 13th of November at 11AM.

Happy days!!

Thanks for this. I checked the TV guide on my PVR and it doesn't show anyplace so it is good to know it is on.

[tropo]

you should respond to the points raised....which you clearly haven't done....in boxing I think they would call it punching above your weight/knowledge class, an expert you are not. Do not feel bad, just do more research before discussing topics where you are clearly out of your depth

I should respond to anything I wish. You were waffling on about so many points for me to bother responding to all and they were off topic anyway. Stop pulling this "I'm an expert and you're not" crap all the time. Just say what you want to say and don't try to undermine everyone who doesn't agree.

I was calling you out on one point only, because originally I made one assertion - that Pacquiao is by far the best professional boxer ever from Asia. You pushed this Khaosai Galaxy bantamweight champion forward as the best ever.

You made a poor effort to raise Khaosai Galaxy to heights he never achieved. He was a one weight division champion all of his career. Pacquiao took on and succeeded in 8. There is no comparison. Why didn't he seek out heavier champions? Your excuses were poor - but really, should we spend so much time theorizing about what would have happened between 2 fighters 20 years or a full generation apart in age.

Getting back to more relevant facts about Pacquiao. You made a big deal about Pacquiao losing to a Thai boxer - Medgoen Singsurat, who you claimed was a club boxer. Let's examine this more closely....

Pacquiao lost to Medgoen Singsurat in September 1999 for one reason only - he was totally dehydrated for that fight. He didn't even make the flyweight weight limit of 112 lbs and was stripped of his WBC Flyweight title before the fight. He was fighting at a weight way below his natural weight at the time. He immediately jumped up 3 weight divisions to super bantamweight (122 lbs) after this fight and won a total of 11 fights at that new weight division and never fought at flyweight again.

Incidentally a fellow Filipino boxer Malcolm Tuñacao took care of Medgoen not long after on May 19, 2000 at flyweight - resulting in a 7th round TKO. He did it in front of a Thai crowd in Udon Thani. Medgoen wasn't that much of a challenge for a true flyweight who didn't have to drain himself to make weight. You were probably correct in your assessment that he was only a club boxer.

Pacquiao fought 7 Thai boxers in his professional career, 2 in Thailand. The last time was in 2004.

Edited November 12, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

btw look at the combined record of the last 5 guys martinez fought....all quality guys at the top of their game.....he takes on all comers

Amazing! Could that be why he's considered the 3rd best pound-for-pound fighter in the world at present?

Pacquiao isn't scared of him. At a catch weight of 150 lbs he'll take care of him just the same as he did Margarito.

Interestingly, Pacquiao only weighed 144.6 lbs at his weigh-in for the Margarito 150 lbs catchweight fight and he had to eat a lot of food to get to that.

Pacquiao is a natural junior welterweight at best. Anything above that he's stretching himself. That's something your Khaosai Galaxy hero never did. It's something Martinez doesn't like to do either. Martinez should start picking on bigger guys to test himself, but he's only after a big payday before he retires because he's getting near the end of his career at 36.

If Pacquiao did go on to fight Martinez and won, you'd probably say that Martinez was too old, or weight-drained. It could end up a similar story to when he fought De La Hoya. After he lost he was coined as "washed up", "old", and "weight drained" etc. Before the fight he was the odds-on favourite - by a mile.

I've already read reports about Martinez not liking the idea of catchweighting the fight to 150 lbs.

Edited November 12, 2011 by tropo

[tailspin]

Talk about waffling! you make a Belgian waffle look like a tea biscuit!

Many great fighters have fought in one weight class only...isn't that what all the heavyweights do?

These guys who are constantly changing divisions are looking for easy fights and easy belts...it's a numbers and business promotion scam plain and simple. The real champs stay where they are and take on all comers. There are exceptions, the greatest boxer of all time, Sugar Ray Robinson only moved up to middleweight after a long career at welter because he could no longer make weight... All of these new sanctioning bodies and weight classes that never existed before have resulted in the watered down belts of today. Do your research.

Great excuses though on why Pacman got knocked out in 3^rd round by an unknown Thai boxer...then you go on to say that Martinez should do the same thing by losing so much weight he drains himself in order to fight Pacman

Here is my list of the greatest asian fighters, based on their willingness to take on all comers, and not look for easy fights

1. Pancho Villa - Filipino

2. Khaosai Galaxy - Thai

3. Pacman. - Filipino (could be upgraded later if he stops fighting these has-beens)

Feel free to post your own list, though I think you don't know any other asian fighters except pacman

Again do your research, and do not feel bad if you know less than others. You have alot of work ahead of you. This is a great opportunity for you to learn something from the masters

you should respond to the points raised....which you clearly haven't done....in boxing I think they would call it punching above your weight/knowledge class, an expert you are not. Do not feel bad, just do more research before discussing topics where you are clearly out of your depth

I should respond to anything I wish. You were waffling on about so many points for me to bother responding to all and they were off topic anyway. Stop pulling this "I'm an expert and you're not" crap all the time. Just say what you want to say and don't try to undermine everyone who doesn't agree.

I was calling you out on one point only, because originally I made one assertion - that Pacquiao is by far the best professional boxer ever from Asia. You pushed this Khaosai Galaxy bantamweight champion forward as the best ever.

You made a poor effort to raise Khaosai Galaxy to heights he never achieved. He was a one weight division champion all of his career. Pacquiao took on and succeeded in 8. There is no comparison. Why didn't he seek out heavier champions? Your excuses were poor - but really, should we spend so much time theorizing about what would have happened between 2 fighters 20 years or a full generation apart in age.

Getting back to more relevant facts about Pacquiao. You made a big deal about Pacquiao losing to a Thai boxer - Medgoen Singsurat, who you claimed was a club boxer. Let's examine this more closely....

Pacquiao lost to Medgoen Singsurat in September 1999 for one reason only - he was totally dehydrated for that fight. He didn't even make the flyweight weight limit of 112 lbs and was stripped of his WBC Flyweight title before the fight. He was fighting at a weight way below his natural weight at the time. He immediately jumped up 3 weight divisions to super bantamweight (122 lbs) after this fight and won a total of 11 fights at that new weight division and never fought at flyweight again.

Incidentally a fellow Filipino boxer Malcolm Tuñacao took care of Medgoen not long after on May 19, 2000 at flyweight - resulting in a 7th round TKO. He did it in front of a Thai crowd in Udon Thani. Medgoen wasn't that much of a challenge for a true flyweight who didn't have to drain himself to make weight. You were probably correct in your assessment that he was only a club boxer.

Pacquiao fought 7 Thai boxers in his professional career, 2 in Thailand. The last time was in 2004.

Edited November 12, 2011 by tailspin

[tailspin]

I agree with your views on dellhoya and mosely...both overrated

Lewis and Klitschko I am not sure.... Klitscho's eyeball was about to fall out its socket and the ref stepped in to save his eyesight and possibly his life

Unfortunatley all the heavyweights were afraid to fight Lewis once Steward took over as his trainer and taught him some defense

Pac and Arum Agree to random tests link.http://www.boxingnews24.com/2011/07/bob-arum-agrees-to-random-blood-testing-for-pacquiao/Hatton only started fighting decent opponents a few years before he beat an aging Tszyu which the ref let him get away with fouling Tszyu the whole fight. Hatton was a good fighter though.You can pick apart anyones resume really.Dela Hoya: lost all his biggest fights and the ones he did win he got gift decisions.Mosley: How long was he on EPO?Mayweather: Castillo beat him the firts fight, Corrales was weight drained, Hatton not at natural weight etc etc.Roy Jones: Fought guys weight drained or not in his peakLewis: Never beat anyone in there primes, Vitali had him out on his feet before the fight was stopped on cuts.See you can pretty much do that with any fighter and it has been done to most greats.

[tropo]

..then you go on to say that Martinez should do the same thing by losing so much weight he drains himself in order to fight Pacman

You should think before you type.

You're suggesting that Pacman, who struggled to reach 144.6 (official weigh-in) for a 150 lb fight should fight Martinez at a weight in excess of 150 because he cannot get down to 150?

This is absurd. It should be obvious to an expert such as you that this can never be a fair fight.

Edited November 12, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

Great excuses though on why Pacman got knocked out in 3^rd round by an unknown Thai boxer...

I'm giving a valid reason why a great fighter was knocked out (body punch) 12 years ago. You're making an excuse for a Thai boxer's entire career. You can imagine all the outcomes you like, but if a fighter is not tested it's just that - imagination. You have a good one.

[YoungBrit]

Anyone found it yet?

[junkofdavid2]

Instead of us kiddies quarreling, can anyone say exactly WHERE we can watch it if we don't have high end cable?

Was watchin online but it was pulled down due to copyright.

I'm even willing to go to a pay-website but can't find one (so much spam with the free "trap" websites).

Even a bar I can run to right now in Silom/Sukhumvit/Sathon area?

?????????????

[mackayae]

Channel 7.

[steelepulse]

Channel 7 has &lt;deleted&gt; right now. Is the fight delayed?

[Jebhead]

Channel 7 has &lt;deleted&gt; right now. Is the fight delayed?

It's not even that good!!!!!

JH

[NigeLTufnel]

Channel 7 has &lt;deleted&gt; right now. Is the fight delayed?

It's not even that good!!!!!

JH

Stay on 7. I think we're switching over to the fight. My Thai is

[NigeLTufnel]

SHOWTIME

[junkofdavid2]

Really weird.

It's like the fight is blacked out at Channel 7 on my TV, then Channel 7 comes back during commercial breaks? LOL

[R123]

Yes at last it came onto channel 7 !

I am a big Manny admirer, pound for pound the best boxer in the world; but in my opinion he would have been lucky to get a draw in this fight, but no way in my view did he win it(and i reckon he knew it too!).

Shows again why its dangerous to leave the decision to the judges.

Edited November 13, 2011 by R123

[AGems]

I'm surprised by the judges decision! Saw Marquez slightly in front at the end of the 12 rounds...

[MrRed]

Marquez won that fight,i think it is now time Manny.

[tailspin]

Well that was one of the worst title fights ever

I agreed with the decision, Marquez had no power, and his best shot of the fight was the headbutt

Pacman knew Marquez couldn't hurt him, so coasted to an easy payday. That's why Marquez was handpicked as opponent.

The whole fight consisted of everyone waiting for Pacman to drop this guy, including Marquez himself

I think these guys both like each other too much and so the final result was a win for them both and the promoters

Let's hope Pacman will go in search of better fights and fighters so he can establish himself as one of the greats

[tropo]

Well that was one of the worst title fights ever

I agreed with the decision, Marquez had no power, and his best shot of the fight was the headbutt

Pacman knew Marquez couldn't hurt him, so coasted to an easy payday. That's why Marquez was handpicked as opponent.

The whole fight consisted of everyone waiting for Pacman to drop this guy, including Marquez himself

I think these guys both like each other too much and so the final result was a win for them both and the promoters

Let's hope Pacman will go in search of better fights and fighters so he can establish himself as one of the greats

I had Marquez ahead on points and was very surprised by the result. I thought Pacquiao would have been lucky to draw.

Marquez made Pacquiao look ordinary. Mayweather will have loved this fight.

Pacman does not like Marquez, in fact if you knew Pacquiao better you would have detected some anger - followed by a lot of frustration after the first round.

[tailspin]

the only frustration was by the fans who had to suffer through this

btw I didn't realize you were friends with Pacman, can you please ask him to find some decent fights for the fans?

Thanks

Well that was one of the worst title fights ever

I agreed with the decision, Marquez had no power, and his best shot of the fight was the headbutt

Pacman knew Marquez couldn't hurt him, so coasted to an easy payday. That's why Marquez was handpicked as opponent.

The whole fight consisted of everyone waiting for Pacman to drop this guy, including Marquez himself

I think these guys both like each other too much and so the final result was a win for them both and the promoters

Let's hope Pacman will go in search of better fights and fighters so he can establish himself as one of the greats

I had Marquez ahead on points and was very surprised by the result. I thought Pacquiao would have been lucky to draw.

Marquez made Pacquiao look ordinary. Mayweather will have loved this fight.

Pacman does not like Marquez, in fact if you knew Pacquiao better you would have detected some anger - followed by a lot of frustration after the first round.

[tropo]

the only frustration was by the fans who had to suffer through this

btw I didn't realize you were friends with Pacman, can you please ask him to find some decent fights for the fans?

Thanks

Pacquiao wasn't frustrated? Are you blind?

Yes, he comes from an area of the Philippines close to where my wife comes from. There's even some relatives who knew him personally way back when he was fighting for peanuts - they were boxers too.

[tailspin]

I see, you know somebody who knows somebody who knows him, but you don't actually know him yourself, but you "know" what he is feeling? Sorry, but it is impossible to look at a fighter and "know" what he is feeling...look at Ali, he used to do the old rubber leg thing after being hit to fool guys into thinking he was hurt.....professional fighters are actually masters at controlling their emotions.....it sounds like you may be projecting your frustration onto Pacman.....so we agree, we were all frustrated

here was the final punch count on the fight from espn

Ringside punch stats showed just how close the fight was. Pacquiao was credited with landing 176 of 578 punches, while Marquez landed 138 of 436.

The power punches were even closer, with Pacquiao connecting on 117 to 100 -- though Marquez seemed to land the harder punches.

Not sure how your scoring "system" showed the other guy winning?

Maybe you can share it here so we can all analyze it and help you

the only frustration was by the fans who had to suffer through this

btw I didn't realize you were friends with Pacman, can you please ask him to find some decent fights for the fans?

Thanks

Pacquiao wasn't frustrated? Are you blind?

Yes, he comes from an area of the Philippines close to where my wife comes from. There's even some relatives who knew him personally way back when he was fighting for peanuts - they were boxers too.

Edited November 13, 2011 by tailspin

[tropo]

I see, you know somebody who knows somebody who knows him, but you don't actually know him yourself, but you "know" what he is feeling? Sorry, but it is impossible to look at a fighter and "know" what he is feeling...look at Ali, he used to do the old rubber leg thing after being hit to fool guys into thinking he was hurt.....professional fighters are actually masters at controlling their emotions.....it sounds like you may be projecting your frustration onto Pacman.....so we agree, we were all frustrated

here was the final punch count on the fight from espn

Ringside punch stats showed just how close the fight was. Pacquiao was credited with landing 176 of 578 punches, while Marquez landed 138 of 436.

The power punches were even closer, with Pacquiao connecting on 117 to 100 -- though Marquez seemed to land the harder punches.

Not sure how your scoring "system" showed the other guy winning?

Maybe you can share it here so we can all analyze it and help you

I've watched Pacquiao closely enough to notice a difference for this fight.

I'm no boxing judge as you're pretending to be, but with my limited view on a small TV screen I thought Marquez had the edge by a small margin. As it happened one judge scored it even, so it was very, very close. A lot of people including experts with more knowledge than you (not hard to find) gave the edge to Marquez.

I think it's time we both gave it a break and let some other people comment.

[WebBangkok]

I had it a draw.

Although the rounds Marquez won, he did it clearly. The rounds Pac won could of gone either way.

Marquez look much sharper this time around at WW and not with a pot belly like his last attempt at WW.

Pac looks like he is on the decline, his footwork was not there and did not seem sharp at all. Pac looked tired to me after the 6th round onwards.

Marquez just always had Pac's number so it did not shock me how this fight played out.

I think Mayweather will now be willing to fight him, if Pac's legs are gone and on the decline, Mayweather should beat him.

Pac should have 1 or 2 fights max before he retires, you could tell he was not the same fighter he once was.