Seeking A Good Development To Begin Retirement

[venturalaw]

Having been born and raised in So. California, and particularly having traveled many times to Mexico, I can tell you that you are in for quite a culture shock if your plan is to migrate to Thailand. The Thai people and culture are as far different from your background and living experiences as you could possibly imagine. For me it was exactly what I had been looking for, but for others, let's just say there is considerable adjustment. I will PM you with the name of a tourist agent who was born and raised in Chiang Mai, knows everything there is to know about Chiang Mai and provides personalized tours for families considering making Chiang Mai their home.

I have been to both many times and would take Thailand over Mexico in a heartbeat. Biggest problem is the Mexican "bravado/machismo" attitude that makes every punk think they are a bullfighter not to mention locking all the pretty woman out of restaurants so the men can work as waiters. If you want to see ripoffs go to Mexico. A 100 baht a day mbike in Tland is 1000 per day in a Mexican resort. In short Mexico sucks!!!!!

I completely agree. People complain about the punitive treatment exercised by the Thai police/authorities of those who choose to possess drugs, but I wouldn't trade it for a second given how Mexico's drug lords appear to be running the country and committing assassinations with virtually complete impunity.

[jackr]

Agree 100% with Trainman except for his budget.I've lived in Chiangmai on and off for 3 years now but have to return to the UK on a regular basis on business.When I first arrived here people kept telling me that I could find a wonderful property for rent for 10 to 15 k and I now accept that I wasted so much time believing that. I have quite a nice house in the UK and had no intention of lowerng my standards when moving to Chiangmai.Long story short , I have a lovely 3 bed 3 bath 2 storey house in a gated , very quiet mooban about 6/7 k from the city centre.The modest sized garden s my pride and joy.The clubhouse with a lovely, rarely used pool ( other than by myself) is literally a 1 minute wak from my front gate.Opposite the entrance to the mooban is a 7/11 together with newly opened eat in/eat out thai cafe, both of which we use frequently.This costs me 36,000 month and I think its worth every baht. Yes, I expect to be terminally flamed for wasting my money/being ripped off by a Thai llandlord/agent/and personally inflating the entire housing market in Northern Thailand. but I personally could not live in the 12k baht/month homes other expats appear content in. IF you have a budget of 50 k baht then you WILL have a beautiful home in CM. IF you have a budget of 10k then you will of course not have the same standard and/or facilities. I fully accept that I am very fortunate in my lifestyle compared to some on this forum but I do feel that newcomers are sometimes given the wrong impression of the housing market in the area.Up to you !

Possibly one of the all time best posts on TV. Telling it how it really is even if it makes people squirm a bit.

And you deduced this in all your one week on TV. The reality being above poster could have had same place for much less, so no, it's not how it really is. Guy round the corner pays 100k pm for his place, which isn't worth more than 40-50k in this city, but hey who gives a shit if the company's paying.

Op, the best way to play it if you're not very upwardly mobile is to get yourself in digs for a month or two and have an agency take you around everywhere. You'll pay top whack but that doesn't matter, right. However, if you did fancy saving yourself some coin (even Bill Gates doesn't like paying over the odds), you go back yourself later and negotiate. Many of these places would want you in for a min 6 months, usually a year, so you really should listen to other posters urging you to hang around first. CM can be the absolute pits Mar-May with pollution, it's also been known to flood, and zero zoning can see a karaoke joint right next to your quiet moobaan. Hello Dolly sussed a nice condo out (Furama) which looks to have tidy two-bed rooms; Farangpani seems a bit of a rip for what it is.

All the best and don't let the doris wear the trousers.

[Dante99]

..... after reading your posts...I don't think you will like it here.

+1

[eveningson]

..... after reading your posts...I don't think you will like it here.

+1

perhaps you are both right. i am considering other options as well. the only sure decision i have made is that i am done in Mexico, lauded frequently as a good place to retire.

[hellodolly]

<br />

<br />Lots of advice here and I will give you some of mine.<br />Ignore the posters who seem to be concerned only with money.<br />They are what is called cheap charlies. Willing to except second best because it is cheaper. They talk about people getting ripped of on the price they pay for rent. They do not know these people and for all they know the posters bargained the price down from a lot higher asking price.<br /><br />What they don't know is that it is not a renters market. With the flood in Bangkok there is a lot of people coming to Chiang Mai for two or three months.<br />Besides maybe you are willing to pay top dollar to get what you want.<br /><br />As for transportation I hear you. I have no desire to drive here in Chiang Mai. Far cheaper is to hire a car for a day around 900 or 1,000 baht two days a week probably cheaper than buying a car if money is a consideration.<br /><br />I admit I would like to once in a while take a tour of the surounding country but not enough to buy a vehicle. One of thhese days I will hire a vehicle to drive me around not doing the driving I will be able to see the country side better.<br /><br />Myself I have lived here and there on both sides of the border with the last twenty years in Kelowna. For myself Chiang Mai is home.<br /><br />I find that the Thai's are different. That allows me to live in peace. I have friends who don't see different they see rite and wrong with the emphasis being on wrong. They are not all that happy.<br /><br />Give us a chance there is lots to see and do or sit back and relax. We have two movie theaters if you are into them.<br />

<br /><br />I can't understand why some posters seem to think that anyone who doesn't want to spend 36,000 a month on rent or 2,000 for lunch every day instead of a 30 baht bowl of noodles is a 'cheap charlie'.  What &lt;deleted&gt; this is; it's up to the individual to decide how much he wants to spend, no matter how rich he may be. Flaunting 'High so' idea's in a country like Thailand can get you targeted by 'not so nice' people. Sure; I see Farang folks living in big houses with high walls and big barking dogs, and even camera's to make them feel 'safe'.  Personally I prefer to be 'Mr Nobody' and live a lot more modestly in a reasonably secure Moobaan setting.  You are likely to be a lot safer if you blend as well as you can into the community.<br /><br />As for getting around and seeing the countryside; well, I have a car but don't use it that often, my Bicycle I find a lot more useful and I ride around the beautiful local scenery every day. This way you get to meet local people and don't spend all your time with a lot of the whinging expats that are around.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I had forgotten about the getting a bicycle great idea.

As for the cheap charlies I only mention that because they are completely clueless as to what the real value of the item the person is looking at. Foir all they know the item could be under priced. They only see the price and it is more than they are willing to pay or they are just plain jelous because they would like to but can't afford it. If a person is one who can affford it and wants to then do it.

As for safety well Thailand is a lot safer than Mexico and many city's in the western world. One other thing if one has the money to be able to afford 50,000 baht a month houses and 2,000 baht lunches and decides to save it by 30 baht noodle lunches and a 10,000 baht home he dosen't like what is he going to do with the money he saves. The last time I checked the coffins didn't have pockets and cremations burned the money up.

2,000 baht lunch. Where did you find that lunch in Chiang Mai. You really are reaching trying to justify your 30 baht bowl of noodles. Don't know why nothing wrong with a 30 baht bowl of noodles.

[nikster]

[sorry can't be bothered to read all the replies]

I've been looking recently, and also price was no (big) object- found many nice places, including some nice comfortable houses close to or in the city. Those are rare though - there are two nice walking areas, the old town, and nimman area. Nimman has a plethora of very nice apartments for rent available - I'd recommend going there and renting a one or 2 bedroom at the very nice Kantary Hills serviced apartments - we stayed there when our son was born, it was great- spotless, hotel service, room cleaned every day, nice interior, pool, fitness, and a super nice guest lounge with free pastries and coffee, but for a price (2 BR was 60k). But, you can stay there, in comfort, until you find something, and you can walk to all the cafes and restaurants there.

The old city has a small selection of nice apartments, and an even smaller selection of houses - in fact, never found nice houses for rent there.

Now those houses that were near the city that we found were nice, expensive, but outside moo baans, which means an added security risk.

There are tons of nice houses available in moo baans, they are all over the place, but they all require a car or scooter to get around. Unless you count the local moo baan cafe / restaurant, none of these are in walking distance of anything. We now stay in Siwalee Land & House 6km outside. 5 Minutes on the motorbike, perfect for us. But you can't really walk anywhere.

So I'd come here, stay in a nice place, get in contact with a good real estate agent, and search for your perfect place while here.

Definitely easier to find (very) nice apartments within walking distance than it is to find houses. Not impossible but most "nice" houses that are near places are old. And not so nice anymore.

It has to do with the Thai way of building - Thais much prefer new houses to second hand ones, and buildings are built to last 10 years rather than 50 or 100. After 10 years it's probably time to tear it down and build a new one...

my 2ct.

[NancyL]

Kantary Hills is a beautiful hotel/serviced apartment in a good location. It's a great place to stay initially and explore options. Personally, I couldn't imagine signing up for a one-year commitment for housing just based on what you saw on the internet. There are options for rental housing within the range of easy tuk-tuk or song thaew transport, but often they aren't in moo baans. Don't dismiss rental of a condo unit, either. We actually had more problems with neighbor's cooking odors when we lived in a townhouse, right at street level, vs. in a high-rise condo. In most of the condo buildings, the management will help you arrange for service people like plumbers, cable TV guys, aircon technicians. You may be on your own to organize this service in a house.

There are many activities for retired foreigners in CM and many western couples have retired here. An older western woman is not going to feel out of place and she will find many social activities with similar women. I don't think this is the case in places like Pattaya.

As for fishing, CM is a great "home base" for travel. It's an easy flight to the beach resorts of the south where saltwater fishing adventures are possible.

Yes, homes here don't have central aircon. They put units on the wall near the ceiling in individual rooms or a big unit that serves several rooms. I have seen homes that have ductwork off a big wall-mounted aircon, but those ducts don't seem to work well and can house unwanted visitors. No point in cooling the entire house if everyone is in the bedroom or TV room. No need for central heat, although some people do put a space heater in their bathrooms.

The postal system seems to OK, but others may disagree. We've mailed numerous items to the U.S., using regular Thai post and never had a problem. But, we bring the item directly to a "real" post office, not one of the sub-contractor businesses that looks sort of like a post office. Also we watch while the postage is applied and the item put into the outgoing bin behind the counter. But, this is a practice you should do everywhere in the world, not just Thailand. No problems with mail delivery, either, but we live in a rental condo and the building management is good about watching incoming mail. The owner of our unit, an Englishman, has his personal mail sent to our address because he says the delivery is more reliable. He lives in a moo baan with his Thai wife and he says nothing addressed to him in English ever makes it to their house, but his wife's mail does.

We have had problems with English-speaking long-stay tourists stealing the International Herald Tribune from our front porch when we lived in the townhouse at street level. No problems now that we're back in a high-rise condo. The building security guard watches the newspapers to be sure residents don't steal a paper not intended for them.

I'm amazed that some people are so discouraging about the OP retiring here. It's certainly worth a try. Seems like he's had other adventures. It's not like he's proposing to buy a house, car and invest in a business!

[elektrified]

I find it pathetic that ex-pats are stealing newspapers from each other! What a bunch of kee nok's.

[TantraMantra]

[sorry can't be bothered to read all the replies]

I've been looking recently, and also price was no (big) object- found many nice places, including some nice comfortable houses close to or in the city. Those are rare though - there are two nice walking areas, the old town, and nimman area. Nimman has a plethora of very nice apartments for rent available - I'd recommend going there and renting a one or 2 bedroom at the very nice Kantary Hills serviced apartments - we stayed there when our son was born, it was great- spotless, hotel service, room cleaned every day, nice interior, pool, fitness, and a super nice guest lounge with free pastries and coffee, but for a price (2 BR was 60k). But, you can stay there, in comfort, until you find something, and you can walk to all the cafes and restaurants there.

The old city has a small selection of nice apartments, and an even smaller selection of houses - in fact, never found nice houses for rent there.

Now those houses that were near the city that we found were nice, expensive, but outside moo baans, which means an added security risk.

There are tons of nice houses available in moo baans, they are all over the place, but they all require a car or scooter to get around. Unless you count the local moo baan cafe / restaurant, none of these are in walking distance of anything. We now stay in Siwalee Land & House 6km outside. 5 Minutes on the motorbike, perfect for us. But you can't really walk anywhere.

So I'd come here, stay in a nice place, get in contact with a good real estate agent, and search for your perfect place while here.

Definitely easier to find (very) nice apartments within walking distance than it is to find houses. Not impossible but most "nice" houses that are near places are old. And not so nice anymore.

It has to do with the Thai way of building - Thais much prefer new houses to second hand ones, and buildings are built to last 10 years rather than 50 or 100. After 10 years it's probably time to tear it down and build a new one...

my 2ct.

Excellent reply.

Eveningsong and his wife should spend time in CM before jumping in head first but Mexico must be one of the worst places to live now.

[skippie999]

well garry, you have found a lot of reactions. many are good and more are bad. that is understandable because many people with a low budget cannot understand people's needs and wishes with a high budget! same ppl with a high budget do not understand other ppl with a high budget. Life is an experience you cannot share!

Chiang Mai is a beautiful place with a lot of action. there is still some culture but the high amount of farang make the place a mixture of asian city with western services. your budget for housing is probably not very business like because a good manager investigates first the business plan by experience and than start filling in the budget for each item. Knowing that the average salary here in the north is about 250 baht per day for 10 hours of work, makes you thinking more in a direction what the money is worth. to built a super luxe house cost about 5 mio baht. land cost about 1 mio for a rai. you cannot spend more than 10 mio on a house (normally). if you go 5 to 10km outside the main city centre, all prices go down about 25 to sometimes 50%.

Probably when i hear you talking, it might be much more convienent for you to live in a little village around CM with the option everyday to visit the city for your needs. when i came here 10 months ago i thought i do not need a car as well but 1 month later i bought one! and i bought a scooter as well. both cost next to nothing and for city visit it is nice to scooter because easy to park and for driving around the area the car is easy to have. i decided to hire a condo for 2 years to investigate what i want. so every now and then we go and look for everything that is available. I saw a house last month with 1.5 rai of land and all comfort i want in a beautiful landscaped park for 3.5mio baht. I would have bought it the same day if it was in CM mai area (it was near Chiang Rai). I am not in a hurry now and you learn about the prices. I have rented a condo on the 10th floor (4 bedroom 4 bathroom and kitchen and living room + 3 balconies all together 360m2). it cost me 20k baht per month and i can overlook the whole city! a honda pcx heavy scooter cost 75k baht and a car 3.0 turbodiesel 4x4 cost 1mio baht. Cost of ownership is very low and service and maintenance is extremely low (because of the low salaries). So with your budget of 50k on housing you could probably learn here in a few months to make your life comfortable. you will change your mind all the time as well you get different outlook to what you want. but before those decisions you need to learn a bit more what sort of services are available and what your interests are. You need to learn what money is offering here in CM by experience and mostly like everywhere in the world the most expensive is never the best! it makes you worry and the it never gives you what you expect from it. if you retire you want a life with as less as possible stress and things to worry about. so you need some life lessons and just jump in the lake without too many preparations. just let it happen! by the time you are coming you can pm me and i show you a bit around in the area....

regards

skippie

[SomchaiCNX]

After living and working for more than 20 years in Thailand I'm looking for a place to retire as well.

Thailand changed so much the last couple years (negative way) that I start looking for a safer and better place where they actually welcome foreigners.

Good weather.

Good food

Good healthcare

Good immigration laws

No corruption

Affordable properties that you can own yourself

Not to many people

Need less than 1.000 $ US to live comfortable.

Uruguay is one of them

[LarryBird]

Stay at the place you call home. (Just my advice.) Good luck with whatever you decide, though.

[ramrod711]

Hi Garry, there are two moo baans that come to mind, both are near Mee Chok Plaza on the Maejo road. There is a Rimping supermarket, Bangkok bank, pharmacy, wine store, Mcdonalds and several other restaurants and shops as well as a large thai market within easy walking distance. Sorry but i don't recall the names of either moo baan but a friend used to live in the one behind the thai market and another friend lives in the one just a couple of blocks away off the first ring road. the junction of Maejo road and first ring road is at most five kilometres from "downtown Chiang Mai", good luck

[moe666]

Come on over CM is a great place to live. If you donot live in the city you will need transportation, even in the city having your own can be convient.

[skippie999]

he garry, you did not respond anymore?

well garry, you have found a lot of reactions. many are good and more are bad. that is understandable because many people with a low budget cannot understand people's needs and wishes with a high budget! same ppl with a high budget do not understand other ppl with a high budget. Life is an experience you cannot share!

Chiang Mai is a beautiful place with a lot of action. there is still some culture but the high amount of farang make the place a mixture of asian city with western services. your budget for housing is probably not very business like because a good manager investigates first the business plan by experience and than start filling in the budget for each item. Knowing that the average salary here in the north is about 250 baht per day for 10 hours of work, makes you thinking more in a direction what the money is worth. to built a super luxe house cost about 5 mio baht. land cost about 1 mio for a rai. you cannot spend more than 10 mio on a house (normally). if you go 5 to 10km outside the main city centre, all prices go down about 25 to sometimes 50%.

Probably when i hear you talking, it might be much more convienent for you to live in a little village around CM with the option everyday to visit the city for your needs. when i came here 10 months ago i thought i do not need a car as well but 1 month later i bought one! and i bought a scooter as well. both cost next to nothing and for city visit it is nice to scooter because easy to park and for driving around the area the car is easy to have. i decided to hire a condo for 2 years to investigate what i want. so every now and then we go and look for everything that is available. I saw a house last month with 1.5 rai of land and all comfort i want in a beautiful landscaped park for 3.5mio baht. I would have bought it the same day if it was in CM mai area (it was near Chiang Rai). I am not in a hurry now and you learn about the prices. I have rented a condo on the 10th floor (4 bedroom 4 bathroom and kitchen and living room + 3 balconies all together 360m2). it cost me 20k baht per month and i can overlook the whole city! a honda pcx heavy scooter cost 75k baht and a car 3.0 turbodiesel 4x4 cost 1mio baht. Cost of ownership is very low and service and maintenance is extremely low (because of the low salaries). So with your budget of 50k on housing you could probably learn here in a few months to make your life comfortable. you will change your mind all the time as well you get different outlook to what you want. but before those decisions you need to learn a bit more what sort of services are available and what your interests are. You need to learn what money is offering here in CM by experience and mostly like everywhere in the world the most expensive is never the best! it makes you worry and the it never gives you what you expect from it. if you retire you want a life with as less as possible stress and things to worry about. so you need some life lessons and just jump in the lake without too many preparations. just let it happen! by the time you are coming you can pm me and i show you a bit around in the area....

regards

skippie

[eveningson]

I would think the best thing for you to do is find a rental apartment and take some time to look around before you leap into any long term arrangements. There are plenty of new build Moobaan's to chose from all around Chiang Mai and plenty of houses for rent. The fact that you don't drive does make life more difficult if you are looking around the area but there are many agents who will probably help you, or you could hire a mini-bus for the day and ask them to cruise all the Baan's. For the rent you are willing to pay you could live in a reasonable size mansion in this country! Many houses for rent in the 10-12,000 a month bracket.

I thank you very much. My connection decided not to work. this happens now and again in mexico so i was not able to reply as quickly as I would have liked to your kind recommendations. I am reconsidering the amount I wish to pay and will make my ultimate decision when i am there.

[eveningson]

he garry, you did not respond anymore?

well garry, you have found a lot of reactions. many are good and more are bad. that is understandable because many people with a low budget cannot understand people's needs and wishes with a high budget! same ppl with a high budget do not understand other ppl with a high budget. Life is an experience you cannot share!

Chiang Mai is a beautiful place with a lot of action. there is still some culture but the high amount of farang make the place a mixture of asian city with western services. your budget for housing is probably not very business like because a good manager investigates first the business plan by experience and than start filling in the budget for each item. Knowing that the average salary here in the north is about 250 baht per day for 10 hours of work, makes you thinking more in a direction what the money is worth. to built a super luxe house cost about 5 mio baht. land cost about 1 mio for a rai. you cannot spend more than 10 mio on a house (normally). if you go 5 to 10km outside the main city centre, all prices go down about 25 to sometimes 50%.

Probably when i hear you talking, it might be much more convienent for you to live in a little village around CM with the option everyday to visit the city for your needs. when i came here 10 months ago i thought i do not need a car as well but 1 month later i bought one! and i bought a scooter as well. both cost next to nothing and for city visit it is nice to scooter because easy to park and for driving around the area the car is easy to have. i decided to hire a condo for 2 years to investigate what i want. so every now and then we go and look for everything that is available. I saw a house last month with 1.5 rai of land and all comfort i want in a beautiful landscaped park for 3.5mio baht. I would have bought it the same day if it was in CM mai area (it was near Chiang Rai). I am not in a hurry now and you learn about the prices. I have rented a condo on the 10th floor (4 bedroom 4 bathroom and kitchen and living room + 3 balconies all together 360m2). it cost me 20k baht per month and i can overlook the whole city! a honda pcx heavy scooter cost 75k baht and a car 3.0 turbodiesel 4x4 cost 1mio baht. Cost of ownership is very low and service and maintenance is extremely low (because of the low salaries). So with your budget of 50k on housing you could probably learn here in a few months to make your life comfortable. you will change your mind all the time as well you get different outlook to what you want. but before those decisions you need to learn a bit more what sort of services are available and what your interests are. You need to learn what money is offering here in CM by experience and mostly like everywhere in the world the most expensive is never the best! it makes you worry and the it never gives you what you expect from it. if you retire you want a life with as less as possible stress and things to worry about. so you need some life lessons and just jump in the lake without too many preparations. just let it happen! by the time you are coming you can pm me and i show you a bit around in the area....

regards

skippie

a

Thank you so much for taking all of the time to write a full and informative response. Unfortunately my connection in mexico decided not to work and I apologize most sincerely for being late in replying to your post. I am intrigued by your idea that one could live in a smaller village and visit CM as circumstances require. I will probauy bly have to buy a car as many posters here suggest. I will certainly contact you when I arrive in CM. You seem a decent sort and thank you.

[eveningson]

Hi Garry, there are two moo baans that come to mind, both are near Mee Chok Plaza on the Maejo road. There is a Rimping supermarket, Bangkok bank, pharmacy, wine store, Mcdonalds and several other restaurants and shops as well as a large thai market within easy walking distance. Sorry but i don't recall the names of either moo baan but a friend used to live in the one behind the thai market and another friend lives in the one just a couple of blocks away off the first ring road. the junction of Maejo road and first ring road is at most five kilometres from "downtown Chiang Mai", good luck

I will have to try to discover the names of these places and intend to check them out., thank you so much.

[Thighlander]

they use the same mini-split type of a/c in thailand that they do in MX. What city are you in? I'm 3 hours north of the border. 50K per month is outrageous for CNX.

I would recommend living closer in, without a car in Chiang Mai. The area around CMU, for example.....it can be noisy, but most of the moobaans have barking dog issues.

A friend of mine was paying 28,000 pm all inclusive at Home in the Park, which is above average, but it was way more house than he needed. I bought (with an attorney) for 915,000 at ban wangtan.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Thighlander

[ProThaiExpat]

You will observe when you start looking at moo bans that most of them were constructed some distance from major roads as the land was so much cheaper than frontage on major roads. Many moo bans have elaborate gates, an abundance of "security guards" and are quite inviting, however, you may travel a kilometer or more from the main road and the gates before reaching the housing units and depending on the size of the developments, many kilometers more of roads to reach your ideal home.

I mention this as a 7/11 located at the entrance to the moo ban may be just too far of a walk from many of the houses in the development, so watch the distance from that amenity to any house you consider. There are rentals in most moo bans and most of them will have a unit in the 10K to 15K range available most of the time.

[muchogra]

I think the OP has a good personality and would fit right in in most environments around the world. I think Chiangmai is nicer than most.

As long as the OP has a certain budget and not really looking to save to the last dime any reasonable place that fits him should be fine.

It took me only 3 days to buy a house in CM. I did not bother to find the best deal because I was satisfied with the house I bought. Of course, I bought it from a big developer which I knew I couldn't be scammed and the price was fixed. If I had to buy a house from any private entity I would have needed to go through all the hazards of being a non-Thai. There's always a balance and compromise. Why have a headache to save a few bucks that don't matter.

As for the OP, I suggest lining up several real estate agents to inspect the houses on their listings. Rent a hotel for a week or two. An ideal hotel could be Centara Duangtawan or Imperial Mae Ping which runs you about B1,200 to B1,500 per night.

[binjalin]

As one old company director told me after i joined - do nothing (he meant in the first few months - just learn and observe - advice I ignored obviously) Anyway its the best advice for you - come and do nothing - then decide.

[skippie999]

hi garry,

i believe it is waist of time to consider now what you want to do later. at first you have to learn about the city and its surroundings. i am here myself for 10 months now and i have changed my mind already 4 times. as i told you i gave myself 2 years to consider where and what i want to chose as my local destination. i think you really need that. with your budget the sky is the limit in this area and therefor it would be a mistake when you not get the maximum possible to suit you personally. with your background i do not believe that the city life of CM will attract you a lot to live in. i had a look in those moo baans and find out that it is not nice to live because mostly all houses are the same and it give a 'communistic feel'. if you have a budget like that you would not like to mix in. also you pay fees for roads, lights, garbage and other facilities what you never will use. the price for the fees is bothering me because they can change any time and you can not stop them. it is often a reason that people not want to buy the properties. also as i said before: come here and stay anywhere what you like for a short while and make up your mind what you want selecting from the various options you have. Probably you will change your mind and built your own house from scratch on a beautiful peace of land in a nice area. You only know and can decide when you are here for a while what is available and what you want. City life is hectic and 30% what is hanging around in the city is partying farang from all nations. I do not belief that you want to be amoungst them all the time. Even Chiang Rai would probably suit you better if you like a little less hectic city life. i post a few photo's of a nice house near chiang rai in a beautiful landscaped park near a resort with all facilities. the house and land price was 3.5 mio baht on just below 1 rai of land. There are various ways in buying safe property in Thailand so that does not stop you. But similar and much better properties plenty available in the 20km dimension from city center chang mai of course. a few kms from city center CM you find a modern contemporary type of moo baan with club house and tennis and pool. find this at www.lannamontra.com

so many solutions but you only have to see many to make up your mind. you even can hire a personal assistant with car or mini bus that drives you around in any area you want. cost next to nothing. family of my partner is such a man that drives tourists around to anywhere where they want and to the various tourist attractions far away and close. one call and he pick you up home and drive where you want. as easy as you can think. I believe he charges 2000 baht per day driving anywhere. if you want i can check by the time you arrive over here. in the beginning that is best when you do not know the traffic and do not no any direction or neighborhood! also you keep your privacy and freedom what you want and where you want to go.

well if you have specific questions let me know....

kr skippie

he garry, you did not respond anymore?

well garry, you have found a lot of reactions. many are good and more are bad. that is understandable because many people with a low budget cannot understand people's needs and wishes with a high budget! same ppl with a high budget do not understand other ppl with a high budget. Life is an experience you cannot share!

Chiang Mai is a beautiful place with a lot of action. there is still some culture but the high amount of farang make the place a mixture of asian city with western services. your budget for housing is probably not very business like because a good manager investigates first the business plan by experience and than start filling in the budget for each item. Knowing that the average salary here in the north is about 250 baht per day for 10 hours of work, makes you thinking more in a direction what the money is worth. to built a super luxe house cost about 5 mio baht. land cost about 1 mio for a rai. you cannot spend more than 10 mio on a house (normally). if you go 5 to 10km outside the main city centre, all prices go down about 25 to sometimes 50%.

Probably when i hear you talking, it might be much more convienent for you to live in a little village around CM with the option everyday to visit the city for your needs. when i came here 10 months ago i thought i do not need a car as well but 1 month later i bought one! and i bought a scooter as well. both cost next to nothing and for city visit it is nice to scooter because easy to park and for driving around the area the car is easy to have. i decided to hire a condo for 2 years to investigate what i want. so every now and then we go and look for everything that is available. I saw a house last month with 1.5 rai of land and all comfort i want in a beautiful landscaped park for 3.5mio baht. I would have bought it the same day if it was in CM mai area (it was near Chiang Rai). I am not in a hurry now and you learn about the prices. I have rented a condo on the 10th floor (4 bedroom 4 bathroom and kitchen and living room + 3 balconies all together 360m2). it cost me 20k baht per month and i can overlook the whole city! a honda pcx heavy scooter cost 75k baht and a car 3.0 turbodiesel 4x4 cost 1mio baht. Cost of ownership is very low and service and maintenance is extremely low (because of the low salaries). So with your budget of 50k on housing you could probably learn here in a few months to make your life comfortable. you will change your mind all the time as well you get different outlook to what you want. but before those decisions you need to learn a bit more what sort of services are available and what your interests are. You need to learn what money is offering here in CM by experience and mostly like everywhere in the world the most expensive is never the best! it makes you worry and the it never gives you what you expect from it. if you retire you want a life with as less as possible stress and things to worry about. so you need some life lessons and just jump in the lake without too many preparations. just let it happen! by the time you are coming you can pm me and i show you a bit around in the area....

regards

skippie

a

Thank you so much for taking all of the time to write a full and informative response. Unfortunately my connection in mexico decided not to work and I apologize most sincerely for being late in replying to your post. I am intrigued by your idea that one could live in a smaller village and visit CM as circumstances require. I will probauy bly have to buy a car as many posters here suggest. I will certainly contact you when I arrive in CM. You seem a decent sort and thank you.

[DavidMavec]

I would think the best thing for you to do is find a rental apartment and take some time to look around before you leap into any long term arrangements. There are plenty of new build Moobaan's to chose from all around Chiang Mai and plenty of houses for rent. The fact that you don't drive does make life more difficult if you are looking around the area but there are many agents who will probably help you, or you could hire a mini-bus for the day and ask them to cruise all the Baan's. For the rent you are willing to pay you could live in a reasonable size mansion in this country! Many houses for rent in the 10-12,000 a month bracket.

Agree 100% with Trainman except for his budget.I've lived in Chiangmai on and off for 3 years now but have to return to the UK on a regular basis on business.When I first arrived here people kept telling me that I could find a wonderful property for rent for 10 to 15 k and I now accept that I wasted so much time believing that. I have quite a nice house in the UK and had no intention of lowerng my standards when moving to Chiangmai.Long story short , I have a lovely 3 bed 3 bath 2 storey house in a gated , very quiet mooban about 6/7 k from the city centre.The modest sized garden s my pride and joy.The clubhouse with a lovely, rarely used pool ( other than by myself) is literally a 1 minute wak from my front gate.Opposite the entrance to the mooban is a 7/11 together with newly opened eat in/eat out thai cafe, both of which we use frequently.This costs me 36,000 month and I think its worth every baht. Yes, I expect to be terminally flamed for wasting my money/being ripped off by a Thai llandlord/agent/and personally inflating the entire housing market in Northern Thailand. but I personally could not live in the 12k baht/month homes other expats appear content in. IF you have a budget of 50 k baht then you WILL have a beautiful home in CM. IF you have a budget of 10k then you will of course not have the same standard and/or facilities. I fully accept that I am very fortunate in my lifestyle compared to some on this forum but I do feel that newcomers are sometimes given the wrong impression of the housing market in the area.Up to you !

No flame intended good to see some one spend what it cost and not worry about it.

For myself I am just jealous. (I am afraid when my boat comes in it will be a row boat) LOL

For the original poster. I have no vehicle and no desire to have one.

this limit's me in what I can do.

Living with the things you are seeking would be next to imposable.

There are many places I am sure you would love but a form of transportation would be needed.

As has been posted earlier and often get a condo or apartment for one month and look around. Talk to people get agents to show you around As one person suggested make a note of the place you hear about and hire a mini van for a day to take you to see them.

Do not book on line for some thing you might want to spend the rest of your life doing.

On a earlier post I asked about Furama one of the reply's was two bed room 200 square meters in your price range. Take it for a month and them make your decision on where you want to go.

There is lots to see and do here I am sure you will if not love it you will at least enjoy the experience. There is a expats club with many special interest clubs such as board games, gardening, computer, chess and dining out to name a few oops writers club.

Hi,

you are the third person so far that has noted the transportation issue as a major problem. i have to consider my resistance to driving it seems since what i want and what i will get will be determined by that issue. I read somewhere else about a need for some sort of foil in the roof and this affects whether one should rent or not. would a tin foil hat help chuckle. Another suggested that both my wife and i will face discrimination in thailand, since there seems some antipathy to ferangs i think the word is. I have grown up with discrimination in canada being a north american indian, a group not loved by my dear canadian bretheren and sisteren and am prepared for some of that although i wonder what folks will think of a big brown guy who is not east indian or oriental but a red man. chuckle for this too. i fit right in to mexico here except for my size. Speaking of driving, how is parking in chiang mai and how does one get insurance there. it is nigh unto impossible here in mexico to get secure insurance. thank you for taking the time to write to me hello dolly. cheers, garry.

I lived in Chiang Mai for several months with no motorbike or car, just taxis, songtaews, etc. No problem at all. You learn the local prices, learn to pay them. I think the folks who are making a big deal out of the transportation issue are incorrect; then again I was living near the center of the city. Maybe if you are out in the sticks it will be different... my sense is that it is pretty doable though, especially since it appears you have money to spend (and taxis, etc are actually quite inexpensive anyway).

[DavidMavec]

Having been born and raised in So. California, and particularly having traveled many times to Mexico, I can tell you that you are in for quite a culture shock if your plan is to migrate to Thailand. The Thai people and culture are as far different from your background and living experiences as you could possibly imagine. For me it was exactly what I had been looking for, but for others, let's just say there is considerable adjustment. I will PM you with the name of a tourist agent who was born and raised in Chiang Mai, knows everything there is to know about Chiang Mai and provides personalized tours for families considering making Chiang Mai their home.

this is the aspect that i am interested in hearing about. the greatest cuture shock i encountered was entering the white canadian world coming as i do from the bushes of northern canada from an indian background. i have since lived a half alienated life since there are not that mamy of my people left in this world. mexico is a country of indians so i sort of like that aspect but the years of dictatorship, or its equivalent with a one party rule has made mexico a bit of an unstable state and this sort of spoils things. I am a lawyer by background but a simple hack otherwise and it is nice to meet you. i visited california a number of times but never to live.

cheers

garry.

Sorry for the back to back post but it occurred to me to mention the cultural issue. My experience (after having spent time in about 30 countries, Mexico and other Latin American nations among them) is that Thailand is one of the easier (maybe even easiest) places to live in the world outside of your own environs. It is "East meets West", lots of convenience, tons of foreigners, every sort of catering to meet your needs. Here, where there's a will (and a bank account to back it) there's a way. My sense is that Thailand is easier to live in than Mexico and you can choose to what level you would like to get involved in the culture. I do think it is a bit easier in Latin America to integrate in the culture, you are always a foreigner/outsider here; yet at the same time this is not necessarily a bad thing and people treat you well in general.

Just my experiences (someone who has spent years in a variety of countries).

[bobl]

I know I'm late to the party with advice but I might as well say...

First of all, don't rush into anything. Come and stay for a while, get a feel for the place. It may or may not be to your liking but having skimmed through most of the posts and replies, I think you'll probably enjoy it here if you make the right decisions.

You seem to be rather reluctant to drive which is okay - you can survive without a car - but personally I'd consider having one, even if it means employing a driver. I'm guessing from your accomodation budget that cash isn't a major issue so I'm making the assumption that +/- a few thousand bhat a month isn't a big issue for you.

I should mention at the outset that I've only been here for 2 months so as far as Thailand's concerned I'm not exactly an expert - but I've been an "expat" for 17 years so I know a thing or two about adjusting to different lifestyles. "Adjusting" is the key word. If you're adaptable, the sky's the limit. My house in Tanzania costs me (I'm keeping everything in Bhat to make it easy) 200,000 a month all in (rent, utilities, staff). My house in Thailand costs me 2,000. Do I miss my pool, air conditioning, staff? Of course I do. But believe it or not I'm more comfortable here, than there. Furthermore where I'm at there's nothing to stop me landscaping the garden, building a hot tub, or a pool, or installing a/c's - or even buying the property.

If you really don't mind paying 50,000 a month by all means go for a townhouse or something in a gated community. Not my cup of tea, I prefer space and solitude which is one reason I'm way out of town on the Mae Taeng side. Fyi and if you're interested, Mae Taeng Tesco's about 10km, Mae Rim Makro's about 45km and Chiang Mai's about 55km. I'm 5 minutes off the 107 and 5 minutes from the elephant camp. There are a few small grocery stores minutes away (by bike). My house is by no means luxurious but it's no tin hut either... Brick built 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms (but no en-suite) in a plot that must be maybe 25,000 sq/m (I haven't ventured out to the 4 corners yet!). There's a large, "expat standard" house on a huge plot a few km away which my gf tells me is going for 10,000 a month. Anyway I think you get the jist of what I'm saying - a 50,000 house isn't hard to find, but neither is a 250,000 house or a 10,000 house - so do shop around very carefully!

Cheers and good luck!

[butterisbetter]

Having been born and raised in So. California, and particularly having traveled many times to Mexico, I can tell you that you are in for quite a culture shock if your plan is to migrate to Thailand. The Thai people and culture are as far different from your background and living experiences as you could possibly imagine. For me it was exactly what I had been looking for, but for others, let's just say there is considerable adjustment. I will PM you with the name of a tourist agent who was born and raised in Chiang Mai, knows everything there is to know about Chiang Mai and provides personalized tours for families considering making Chiang Mai their home.

this is the aspect that i am interested in hearing about. the greatest cuture shock i encountered was entering the white canadian world coming as i do from the bushes of northern canada from an indian background. i have since lived a half alienated life since there are not that mamy of my people left in this world. mexico is a country of indians so i sort of like that aspect but the years of dictatorship, or its equivalent with a one party rule has made mexico a bit of an unstable state and this sort of spoils things. I am a lawyer by background but a simple hack otherwise and it is nice to meet you. i visited california a number of times but never to live.

cheers

garry.

Sorry for the back to back post but it occurred to me to mention the cultural issue. My experience (after having spent time in about 30 countries, Mexico and other Latin American nations among them) is that Thailand is one of the easier (maybe even easiest) places to live in the world outside of your own environs. It is "East meets West", lots of convenience, tons of foreigners, every sort of catering to meet your needs. Here, where there's a will (and a bank account to back it) there's a way. My sense is that Thailand is easier to live in than Mexico and you can choose to what level you would like to get involved in the culture. I do think it is a bit easier in Latin America to integrate in the culture, you are always a foreigner/outsider here; yet at the same time this is not necessarily a bad thing and people treat you well in general.

Just my experiences (someone who has spent years in a variety of countries).

I think Davidmavec has it exactly right. I used to live in Mexico in the Yucatan. The locals (mayans) we very shy but disposed to be friendly if you were friendly towards them. Which is how the Thais are. This is a really easy place to adjust to. Wonderful food both Thai and western. Excellent medical and dental care available. Reasonable housing prices. You seem to be an even tempered person, which is just the kind of person Thais like and respect. I live in a house in an unplanned moo baan which is what I prefer. But there are plenty of planned ones too. Nothing like that within the city walls, though. Although there are some nearly rural feeling neighborhoods in the city that offer houses for rent. There are also some moo bans in the mountains near the city that are serviced by song taews (converted pick-up trucks that function as mini-buses).

I think you would be very happy here.