Child Abuse In Thailand

[Morden]

The closed thread on Gary Glitter touched on a very worrying subject and I would welcome some information about what is going on.

In the UK, caring parents would not allow their young children to wander the streets and would want to know where they were every minute of the day. That's because there is a good chance that an opportunist paedophile might be looking for children to abduct. The same parents would also keep an eye and ear open to the relationships that their children had with with adult friends and relatives.

I have three step children in Thailand. They are allowed to wander as they wish around the village amongst friends and family. I respect the family's judgement and have not openly questioned this freedom even though it has bothered me a little.

So, how safe are children in Thailand? Have there been many publicised cases of abuse or abduction? Is there more risk in some areas than in others? Is it getting worse? What truth is there in the stories about child prostitution rings? I would welcome information and views about this very serious topic.

[zzap]

This is a very touching subject, which tends to azttract indiscriminate "burn-them-at-the-stake" comments.

I think we'll have to seperate 2 issues here.

Opportunist child abuse, as in many other countries, seems to come from relatives and close family friends, the adopted and abandoned seem a target without much defense (experience: an attempted rape within my Thai family of a teenager disowned by her parents). Personally, I don't consider walking in the streets in the evening as a high risk activity, but keep a close eye on "uncles" and others who take an interest in the children. -without getting paranoid about it!

The other issue is commercial exploitation of children. A different ballgame altogether, although, the main perpetrators seem to be family members and so-called 'friends' ( i know of a former neighbour who used to "hire" her 10 yrs old son to monks).

And we know that Thailand is one of the prime "hunting grounds" for internationally active paedophiles, but in your personal circumstances, I don't think this is of concern to you.

Edited November 22, 2005 by zzap

[GuestHouse]

What I know about it is.

The Thais could save a huge amount of abuse occuring if the listen to any of the Child Protection agencies that are urging Thailand to implement the findings of Western Nations on this subject.

The Thais have still got their head in the sand, believing teachers/monks/doctors/police/army officers are good people because they wear a uniform.... and because they are Thai.

[astral]

And we know that Thailand is one of the prime "hunting grounds" for internationally active paedophiles..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have been reading those sensational newspapers again, haven't you!!

Today Thailand is relatively free of these people, compared to the 70's and 80's.

Most of them were thrown or forced out years ago.

[mittheimp]

And we know that Thailand is one of the prime "hunting grounds" for internationally active paedophiles..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have been reading those sensational newspapers again, haven't you!!

Today Thailand is relatively free of these people, compared to the 70's and 80's.

Most of them were thrown or forced out years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think thats a bit naive, Thailand still has considerable problems, but Cambodia now sadly seems to be the destination in SE Asia for the commited paedophile. However those at risk, like everywhere, are the poor and very vunerable. Those living in a stable family unit in Thailand have no more to worry about than anywhere else in the world.

[Mighty Mouse]

I had similar thoughts to those of the OP when I read the Gary Glitter thread.

On occasions in Pattaya, I have seen, what I believe to be, paedophilia in action.

An oldish farang man in a fast food restaurant buying a bottle of coke for a very young Thai child.

This man was showing unusual interest in the child. Not the kind of interest that a father would have for one of his own children.

Yet, when I see similar situations to what I have described, I have done nothing about it.

Going through my mind is the fact that maybe the child is from mixed race parents and is actually in the company of his natural father.

I have often wondered WHAT I should do if I have very strong suspicions. Call the police. Follow them. Personally intervene, or take the easy way out and do nothing??????

[Guest endure]

I had similar thoughts to those of the OP when I read the Gary Glitter thread.

On occasions in Pattaya, I have seen, what I believe to be, paedophilia in action.

An oldish farang man in a fast food restaurant buying a bottle of coke for a very young Thai child.

This man was showing unusual interest in the child. Not the kind of interest that a father would have for one of his own children.

Yet, when I see similar situations to what I have described, I have done nothing about it.

Going through my mind is the fact that maybe the child is from mixed race parents and is actually in the company of his natural father.

I have often wondered WHAT I should do if I have very strong suspicions. Call the police. Follow them. Personally intervene, or take the easy way out and do nothing??????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And when you got a smack in the gob from the child's father? What would you do then? Would you ponder the fact that your assumptions revolve around the fact that the adult was farang and the child was Thai? Would you make the same assumptions if you saw a Thai adult acting the same way around a Thai child? Or is it only farang/Thai relatiosnships that arouse your suspicion? Are you a racist?

[cdnvic]

And when you got a smack in the gob from the child's father? What would you do then? Would you ponder the fact that your assumptions revolve around the fact that the adult was farang and the child was Thai? Would you make the same assumptions if you saw a Thai adult acting the same way around a Thai child?  Or is it only farang/Thai relatiosnships that arouse your suspicion? Are you a racist?

Chill.

Everytime one of these threads starts up, someone goes overboard and it gets shut down. Let's try and havbe a sensible debate without batting each other with your handbags okay ladies?

cv

[opothai]

very delicate subject

when i first came to thailand i read all the sensational stories in the press, and even before i landing in the country i was very wary about the pedofile situation.

after a few days every guy i saw with a child i had my suspitions and in a way this made me paranoid about not talking or even giving the young beggers and unfortunates any thought what so ever, simply because i did not want others to judge me as i was pre judging them.

thier is a problem, as in many countries but it is not being adressed in the correct way.

and sensational news paper reports coming to the west are not helping this.

[Guest endure]

And when you got a smack in the gob from the child's father? What would you do then? Would you ponder the fact that your assumptions revolve around the fact that the adult was farang and the child was Thai? Would you make the same assumptions if you saw a Thai adult acting the same way around a Thai child?  Or is it only farang/Thai relatiosnships that arouse your suspicion? Are you a racist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chill.

Everytime one of these threads starts up, someone goes overboard and it gets shut down. Let's try and havbe a sensible debate without batting each other with your handbags okay ladies?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the contrary - I'm asking a perfectly reasonable question. If the OP saw the same behaviour occuring between a Thai adult and a Thai child would he make the same assumptions that he obviously has done when he sees that behaviour occuring between a farang adult and a Thai child. Do you not consider that a reasonable question to ask?

[cdnvic]

The poster was discussiing and even questioning his own gut feelings. Calling him a racist was out of line.

cv

[jrincon17]

The closed thread on Gary Glitter touched on a very worrying subject and I would welcome some information about what is going on.

In the UK, caring parents would not allow their young children to wander the streets and would want to know where they were every minute of the day. That's because there is a good chance that an opportunist paedophile might be looking for children to abduct. The same parents would also keep an eye and ear open to the relationships that their children had with with adult friends and relatives.

I have three step children in Thailand. They are allowed to wander as they wish around the village amongst friends and family. I respect the family's judgement and have not openly questioned this freedom even though it has bothered me a little.

So, how safe are children in Thailand? Have there been many publicised cases of abuse or abduction? Is there more risk in some areas than in others? Is it getting worse? What truth is there in the stories about child prostitution rings? I would welcome information and views about this very serious topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard parents selling thier kids or renting them out to people like this guy just for money to survive , i shouldnt say survive because you can do more things than do these things to your child . I know of one case where the mother was arrested

[Guest endure]

The poster was discussiing and even questioning his own gut feelings. Calling him a racist was out of line.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither you nor he have answered my question. Why does the combination of a farang adult and a Thai child suggest paedophilia whereas the combination of a Thai adult and a Thai child suggest nothing more than an ordinary family relationship?

[cdnvic]

I wasn't trying to answer your question, I was telling you to calm down. Try it.

cv

[Guest endure]

I wasn't trying to answer your question, I was telling you to calm down. Try it.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is that I'm not excited so I find it difficult to calm down. I'm simply trying to get an answer to a simple question. I find it hugely offensive to the majority of farang men who have a great affection for Thailand and the Thai people that they are regularly labelled as paedophiles because they associate in the most innocent way with Thai children - often their own offspring.

[leisurely]

I would have to add that I was in Seacon Yoyo land last year with my daughter and two german men were taking photographs of children with their mobile phones. As I couldn't find a guard anywhere I told them to stop or I would phone the police (not sure what I would have said as I don't speak Thai). They departed pretty quickly. could have all been innocent but I don't know.

[Patsycat]

Isn't sad that a man cannot walk down a road, nowadays, holding his child's hand? To protect her/him from the traffic?

[mike uk]

ASTRAL, i recognise the ammount of postings under your belt. i am quite sure you read the pattaya mail and must be quite aware of what goes on in SUNNEE PLAZA so it realy is incorrect for you to say this is a thing of the early 90s. walk down beach rd and take a good look at some of the young femals that are plying there trade, are you sure the even though the thai race are small and delicate in stature that they are all of the age of consent[ whatever that may be] the thai gov. turn a blind eye to prostitution and use a very insulting word for the unfotunate girls that sometime get picked up by the police the have thecheek to call them SERVICE WORKERS. LOOK AGAIN MY FRIEND AND LOOK CLOSELY,

[Neeranam]

Isn't sad that a man cannot walk down a road, nowadays, holding his child's hand? To protect her/him from the traffic?

Why can't he? I do.

I hate it when I am in the play park with my daughter and a little Thai kid comes to play with my daughter and the parent rushes to take their child away. It doesn't happen all the time but has a few times.

It is very sad that when a decent farang shows affection for a Thai kid that MANY people think they are a pedo.

I know an old farang guy, who had 10 of his own grandchildren who was beaten up once on the banks of the Chao Phraya in Nontaburi for buying the kids drinks.

Unfortunately those guys that go to Pattaya and fiddle with the kids get on the national news and many of the country folks tar us all with the same brush.

[DJ Pat]

From what I hear amongst Thai folks, if a Farang bloke is seen with a Thai child, it will be automatically assumed that he is a wrong-doer but if it is a thai bloke, it will be assumed that he is the father of the child.

Because he's Thai, he'd never do such a thing.

Talk about a blinkered outlook on life eh.

[Mighty Mouse]

This man was showing unusual interest in the child. Not the kind of interest that a father would have for one of his own children.

Yet, when I see similar situations to what I have described, I have done nothing about it.

Going through my mind is the fact that maybe the child is from mixed race parents and is actually in the company of his natural father.

****************************************************************

And when you got a smack in the gob from the child's father? What would you do then? Would you ponder the fact that your assumptions revolve around the fact that the adult was farang and the child was Thai? Would you make the same assumptions if you saw a Thai adult acting the same way around a Thai child?  Or is it only farang/Thai relatiosnships that arouse your suspicion? Are you a racist?

Get your brain into gear before you put your mouth into motion.

Re-read what I wrote in my post. Just to make it childproof easy for you, I have highlighted and underlined the pertinent point that I was making.

How can you misconstrue those remarks to be 'racist?'.

CDNVIC correctly determined that I was questioning my own abilities as to whether I could accurately assess if the farang male adult and the Thai child was actually a natural or adopted father/child relationship, or a paedophile/child relationship.

In the situation of which I wrote in my post, I was unable to make any accurate judgement and so I took no action.

In taking no action however, how would I feel if I learned that the child was later sexually abused by the farang male, and had his/her small body ripped apart in the process. The physical damage often heals but not the mental damage.

I myself, take the children from my partners' family on outings and I can well understand what I would feel if a complete stranger confronted me with paedophilia accusations.

[Noel]

I wasn't trying to answer your question, I was telling you to calm down. Try it.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is that I'm not excited so I find it difficult to calm down. I'm simply trying to get an answer to a simple question. I find it hugely offensive to the majority of farang men who have a great affection for Thailand and the Thai people that they are regularly labelled as paedophiles because they associate in the most innocent way with Thai children - often their own offspring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately it is the age in which we live, it would seem.

I will never forget an incident many years ago in Pattaya.

My Thai girlfriend's mother had brought my girlfriend's son down from Buriram to stay with us during the school holidays for a week or two.

The boy was eight years old.

One afternoon, my girlfriend wanted to go shopping with her mother.

Apparently, the boy shared my my dislike of traipsing around markets looking for nothing in particular or shopping in general come to that, so my girlfriend suggested I take the lad to our local bar and have a game of pool with him as I had previously promised I would at some time. They would follow on as and when they finished shopping.

In those days I had a 150 cc motorbike which was quite nippy. The boy was instructed by his mother to hold on tight to me, which he duly did by wrapping his arms around me.

As we were pulling out of a soi off Second Road, two farang men in the company of their farang wives (fair assumption they were married as the men did not appear to be blind and the women were pig ugly) started hurling the most foul abuse at me, one spitting in abject disgust.

I was accused of being a pervert, a sicko, I should be ashamed of myself, castrated and so on.

My instinct was to stop and have a 'little chat' but decided against it and just drove on, albeit in disbelief.

I have to say it did shake me up that anyone could think such a thing, but they clearly did.

People will often believe what they want to believe, I guess. It could also be said that many imaginations are fueled by sensationalistic reporting in the media.

As is the mantra of the gutter Press the world over: "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..."

[Soph]

I was in a bar the other night, and noticed a vile looking old farrang guy going from bar to bar taking pictures of the girls dancing, he wasnt friendly with the girls, just going around every bar - ok I though, so hes perhaps going to go home and perv over them (he had a gross look on his face the whole time) that not my concern. Then I saw him gathering up the flower sellers - of which there were loads, as it was a party and they were swarming the place - he was taking photos of small groups of the kids and they were fine cos he was giving them 20 baht a go. Ok, so one photo, but he took maybe 10, it started to look a bit freaky to me, although no-one else noticed (all too busy looking at the bgs'!)

Then he was gone - off to the next set of bars. It all looked very suspicios to me, but what can one do - I suppose he could be a profesional photographer

[Morden]

It's sad indeed to read stories such as Noel's. Do they think that all farang men are abusers or do they suspect Thai men too?

Maybe they and we are missing the point. I must confess that, if I saw a farang, male or female, hanging around our children I would be there in a second. But farang are limited in numbers and fairly easily noticed. However, I wonder whether Thai are also culprits. Is there any evidence? I have none at all but I do wonder sometimes about the school soccer trips and the days spent at the wat. Maybe I just have a jaundiced Western eye.

[opothai]

in thailand thier is a missconception that it is mainly farangs who are the pedo,s.

fact

in europe

age of concent 16

in thailand

16 or when you have sex you should marry, thai nationals only.

falangs have been caught or rather set uo with girls of 16 and 17 with false id cards then set up for the sting, when it is reported in the press it only tells of another great piece of work by the ever vigilant police force and the facts are not.

i am not condoning these actions in any way, but when you add these incidents along with the pedo's that are already there the problen looks bigger than it really is.

if you go to rural thailand and listen to your wife and family you will hear the stories about child abuse that is not classified as child abuse in the rural areas.

although a despicable act, i see in europe and america that the problem is sill here and it always will be untill EVERY BODY becomes vgilant and reports suspected pedo's.

now the question is how can you tell one and what would happen to the victim if he were innocent.

my solution although very dramatic is pass a law that it is life in prison along with castration, as if he is in prison he would no longer require his tackle. if that is not a detterent then we must think again.

in europe the deterents are not harsh enough and we tend to try to understand the criminal's problems and look at punishment secondary.

[Morden]

I can't agree that mutilation is a reasonable response to this offence. It would set society at the same level as the abusers and is not likely to dissuade someone driven by a perverted sexual urge. I do agree that some punishment would be reasonable and that the abuser should be kept away from children. It may be possible to help some abusers on the grounds that they too may have been victims of abuse in childhood. However, the protection of children is more important and some abusers seem to be beyond even wanting help.

There may be more that can be done to prevent abuse in the first place. Again, I don't know much about what is happening within Thai communities and that is what I want to find out. The Western way is to hide the problem and catch a few paedophiles from time to time to give the public the impression that something is being done. The reality in the West is:

1. Abuse within families goes mainly unreported. The reasons for this include the avoidance of shame, the possibility of losing the family income if the perpetrator is imprisoned, or simple and straightforward denial.

2. Systematic, organised abuse is carried out within the very institutions that are supposed to protect children. Even within schools, 'mild' abusers are moved quietly to a school in another area where, having got away with it, they may well become worse. In fact, even abuse that appears to an adult to be minor can be as devastating to the victim as more serious examples.

Thais tend to avoid making public anything that may shame them. Also, they have a great respect for authority, at least to the extent that they don't openly criticise it. These characteristics, I fear, leave the door open for abusers to do what they want with little fear of being exposed. A big farang dragging children around is fairly obvious and the fact that such people are still walking the streets makes me wonder just what goes in behind Thai doors.

[Guest endure]

This man was showing unusual interest in the child. Not the kind of interest that a father would have for one of his own children.

Yet, when I see similar situations to what I have described, I have done nothing about it.

Going through my mind is the fact that maybe the child is from mixed race parents and is actually in the company of his natural father.

****************************************************************

And when you got a smack in the gob from the child's father? What would you do then? Would you ponder the fact that your assumptions revolve around the fact that the adult was farang and the child was Thai? Would you make the same assumptions if you saw a Thai adult acting the same way around a Thai child?  Or is it only farang/Thai relatiosnships that arouse your suspicion? Are you a racist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Get your brain into gear before you put your mouth into motion.

Re-read what I wrote in my post. Just to make it childproof easy for you, I have highlighted and underlined the pertinent point that I was making.

How can you misconstrue those remarks to be 'racist?'.

CDNVIC correctly determined that I was questioning my own abilities as to whether I could accurately assess if the farang male adult and the Thai child was actually a natural or adopted father/child relationship, or a paedophile/child relationship.

In the situation of which I wrote in my post, I was unable to make any accurate judgement and so I took no action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I ask again. Why does your post revolve around farang men and Thai children? Do you ever look at a Thai man with a Thai child and have similar suspicions about them?

[Glauka]

I wasn't trying to answer your question, I was telling you to calm down. Try it.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is that I'm not excited so I find it difficult to calm down. I'm simply trying to get an answer to a simple question. I find it hugely offensive to the majority of farang men who have a great affection for Thailand and the Thai people that they are regularly labelled as paedophiles because they associate in the most innocent way with Thai children - often their own offspring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately it is the age in which we live, it would seem.

I will never forget an incident many years ago in Pattaya.

My Thai girlfriend's mother had brought my girlfriend's son down from Buriram to stay with us during the school holidays for a week or two.

The boy was eight years old.

One afternoon, my girlfriend wanted to go shopping with her mother.

Apparently, the boy shared my my dislike of traipsing around markets looking for nothing in particular or shopping in general come to that, so my girlfriend suggested I take the lad to our local bar and have a game of pool with him as I had previously promised I would at some time. They would follow on as and when they finished shopping.

In those days I had a 150 cc motorbike which was quite nippy. The boy was instructed by his mother to hold on tight to me, which he duly did by wrapping his arms around me.

As we were pulling out of a soi off Second Road, two farang men in the company of their farang wives (fair assumption they were married as the men did not appear to be blind and the women were pig ugly) started hurling the most foul abuse at me, one spitting in abject disgust.

I was accused of being a pervert, a sicko, I should be ashamed of myself, castrated and so on.

My instinct was to stop and have a 'little chat' but decided against it and just drove on, albeit in disbelief.

I have to say it did shake me up that anyone could think such a thing, but they clearly did.

People will often believe what they want to believe, I guess. It could also be said that many imaginations are fueled by sensationalistic reporting in the media.

As is the mantra of the gutter Press the world over: "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Something like that happen to me in Scotland...I used to look after two children...I was like their elder sister...I knew them since they were 4 and 6...

On day I took them to the museum, and they need to go urgently to teh bathroom. Of course I took both of them to the laidies bathroom...I used to bath them...dress them up...)

when we came out of the bathroom, a woman was standing near the toilet door looking at me with this angry face, then she asked me "What are you doing with those chikdren in the toilet"..."Is none of your business" I replied and we walked away...

The children start to asked me questions that i did not want to answer...

I felt terrible...they were the children I looked after for 3 years...I would have never done anything terrible to them...

This is such a delicate subject...

I never know what to think...and most of the times I don´t think ill about people i don´t know so...

I am always clueless

Edited November 23, 2005 by Glauka

[DJ Pat]

Last week I took my 17 y.o. niece (from my mother's side so she's 100% Thai) to the planetarium in Ekkamai as she had no-one to take her to the Science Film Festival she wanted to go to and I'd told her in the past I'd take her. As I've said before I have known all my nieces/nephews/cousins etc since birth and it's only really now that I have been aware of the looks I recieve, from both Thai and farang.

But my attitude is, &lt;deleted&gt; them, if they wanna know what my relationship is, they can bloody well come and ask me.

I'm not about to wear a T-shirt saying "Actually we're related" though it may be a good idea.

Edited November 23, 2005 by DJ Pat

[Patex]

Thais are very aware of child-abuse, I know many fathers (Thai) who never touched their own daughter or stop it when they can go to the toilet or start school. Some also grow a moustache when the daughter becomes adolescent for looking more fearsome/respectable to her. Reminder: TiT, any physical contact to the different sex is a taboo and if shown in public it allows all thoughts the phantasy of a viewer can bear... Patex