Underground Tunnel Suggested As Solution To Bangkok's Flood Problems

[webfact]

Underground Tunnel Suggested as Solution to Floods

The Engineering Institute of Thailand suggests the government construct an underground tunnel for a total length of 100 kilometers as an efficient long-term solution to Bangkok's ongoing flood problems.

Dean of the Faculty of Engineering at King Mongkut's Institute of Technology Ladkrabang, Suchatchavee Suwansawat, in his capacity as chairman of the tunnel and underground construction committee of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, said he is set to propose the construction of an underground drainage tunnel to the Strategic Committee for Reconstruction and Future Development.

The estimated construction cost of the tunnel is 200 billion baht and construction time will take two years.

Suchatchavee stated that the proposed tunnel, stretching 100 kilometers with a diameter of 24 meters and a depth of ten kilometers, would be built under the Outer Ring Road in eastern Bangkok from Bang Pa-in District in Ayutthaya to Samut Prakan Province.

He noted that the underground tunnel will connect to existing canals and will act as an expressway for water to flow directly and quickly into the sea without any impact to communities.

It will boost the drainage capacity of the city to 130 million cubic meters a day.

The tunnel and underground construction committee chairman further said that the government will not have to pay any land expropriation for the construction.

He explained that the tunnel would be designed as a double-decked underground structure.

The upper deck would be used as a road under normal conditions while the lower deck would be used as a drainage channel.

When there is flooding, the upper deck would be closed to traffic and turned into a floodway to help speed up drainage.

The drainage tunnel system has been used in many countries such as Malaysia, Japan, and Singapore as it brings greater security to the city, people, as well as the business and industrial sectors.

The panel has also proposed the master plan of water drainage as a national agenda so that every government will push forward the effort to solve the ongoing flood problems.

Recently, the tunnel and underground construction committee held a press conference to announce Thailand's readiness to host the World Tunnel Congress 2012.

Deputy Prime Minister Kittirat Na Ranong, who chaired the press conference, said the meeting will provide Thailand with the opportunity to restore foreign investors' confidence and help push the country to become a hub of underground technology in Southeast Asia.

Engineers and manufacturers in Thailand will also have a chance to exchange experience and knowledge with high-level industry leaders and academics from various parts of the world.

The World Tunnel Congress 2012 will be held on May 18 to 23, 2012 at the Queen Sirikit National Convention Center.

-- Tan Network 2011-12-01

[Crossy]

A copy of the KL solution, 20 times bigger, impractical and TOO BL00DY EXPENSIVE!!!

[Tywais]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

[Gippy]

A flood tunnel and road 10km underground, cool. Should be able to get a bit of speed up free wheeling down the hill to get to the bottom!

[Heng]

Sweet, a super huge sewer tunnel packed tight with garbage.

If only I were PM (well, apart from making Suharto and Marcos look like amateurs in terms of how much I'd be putting away on the side into my accounts all over the planet).... it'd be as simple as allocating the current street waste clearing teams more shifts in clearing out the waterways all the time, all year round. If we were to get 'crazy' with it... maybe at most create a few hundred more 300 Baht a day wage sewer/klong cleaning crew jobs. Much less than 200 Billion in cash outflow, I promise.

The same way as all beach towns should have permanent crews sweeping the beaches of garbage every single day: super easy to do, and I'd bet we could quantify the returns in local and international travel revenue.

[mindabenda]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Misprint or not, why stop there? Tunnel through the crust and beyond. Seriously though, the tunnel that would lie below sea level at both ends have any kind of chance?

[andvari26]

Maybe some one saw this & thought - heck we can have one of those if it`s good enough for the Japanese !

Go to the 7 minute mark to see the anti flood device for Tokyo

http://www.vice.com/uneven-terrain/tokyo-rising-1

[scorecard]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Misprint or not, why stop there? Tunnel through the crust and beyond. Seriously though, the tunnel that would lie below sea level at both ends have any kind of chance?

My thoughts also.

[Payboy]

What's better than starting a multi-billion project that's not even visible at street level?

[ResX]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Fore sure something goes wrong here. It doesn't make sense at all.

Why he wants to make the problem more difficult that it supposed to be? The conventional solution is hold that flood waters using flood control or multi purpose reservoir. Then release them gradually over longer duration. If there are 16 billion of floods water that fall in less than 7 days can be held in the reservoirs and they are released gradually over 140 days, then the peak flood flow will reduce by 20 folds. Better still if the waters can be used by irrigation and power generation sector. In many cases, the economic benefits of the stored waters can cover the capital costs to build the reservoirs.

[ResX]

A flood tunnel and road 10km underground, cool. Should be able to get a bit of speed up free wheeling down the hill to get to the bottom!

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The flow gradient, the ultimate driving force to move the water is calculated based on sea level as the lower reservoir and mainland water intake point as the upper reservoir. It doesn't really matter how deep the tunnel is buried. Ultimately, pressure gradient between intake and sea level that count...

[jackr]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

I would say that's a mistake as apart from being unrealistic, unnecessary, hot and devoid of air, that'd make it 1/5 going down and 1/5 back up... they'd need some huge pumps for a start and imagine breaking down.

10m would also be unrealistic, more like 30-50m. They've obviously crunched some numbers, but unless ingress is high up and the gradient is there, they'll need some big pumps surely, because you'll need to pop back up to go down into the sea. Surely a large canal would be better owing to the low gradient of the delta.

[visions]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Misprint or not, why stop there? Tunnel through the crust and beyond. Seriously though, the tunnel that would lie below sea level at both ends have any kind of chance?

My thoughts also.

It would become a stationary collection pond only. it takes gravity to move the water to the sea from rivers etc. One only needs see what happens to sewerage outlets etc....they flow backwards when overflowed at the outlet.

As was so often spoken about, during the high tides, the water could not flow into the sea, it backed up, in fact the reverse happens, the sea raises the level of the river and floods the land.

100km in 2 years.....1 km per week??? 200 billion..... yeah right!! TiT......land of miracles. 1 meter per week and 2000 billion. would be closer to reality!! a fleet of longtail propellors type idea!!! 100% useless.

Someone has not done the sums here, just a mis-informed pie in the sky idea to substantiate someone's job. They need some "real" experienced engineers to draw up a national flood relief plan, and i strongly suspect it wouldnt be Thai engineers. They need an international consortium, Japanese and Dutch maybe? to sort it out, for the future of the country.

[ballpoint]

Underground tunnel? As opposed to what, an above ground one?

[gregb]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Misprint or not, why stop there? Tunnel through the crust and beyond. Seriously though, the tunnel that would lie below sea level at both ends have any kind of chance?

My thoughts also.

It would become a stationary collection pond only. it takes gravity to move the water to the sea from rivers etc. One only needs see what happens to sewerage outlets etc....they flow backwards when overflowed at the outlet.

As was so often spoken about, during the high tides, the water could not flow into the sea, it backed up, in fact the reverse happens, the sea raises the level of the river and floods the land.

100km in 2 years.....1 km per week??? 200 billion..... yeah right!! TiT......land of miracles. 1 meter per week and 2000 billion. would be closer to reality!! a fleet of longtail propellors type idea!!! 100% useless.

Someone has not done the sums here, just a mis-informed pie in the sky idea to substantiate someone's job. They need some "real" experienced engineers to draw up a national flood relief plan, and i strongly suspect it wouldnt be Thai engineers. They need an international consortium, Japanese and Dutch maybe? to sort it out, for the future of the country.

Stop applying logic here and concentrating on irrelevant details. The only important thing about that number is which government gets to approve it and collect the 20% - 30% corruption fee for signing it. How much of it actually gets built, or whether it gets built at all, is not relevant. Nobody cares about that. Who cares if they are planning to use a boring machine powered by Somchai on a bicycle? It only has to look like they are doing something long enough to collect their cash anyway. And if they're smart they won't leave it sitting around in cash at home to be stolen.

The last thing anyone wants is experienced engineers getting involved. It's hard to cheat when you've got someone who knows what he is talking about.

[onionluke]

"and a depth of ten kilometers"

Is that a misprint or is it actually realistic?

Misprint or not, why stop there? Tunnel through the crust and beyond. Seriously though, the tunnel that would lie below sea level at both ends have any kind of chance?

My thoughts also.

Of course this plan will incorporate the well documented , " Pataya Water Spout Effect " , to thrust the water skywards via the existing ancient spout shafts about 3km offshore .

[naboo]

For some reason, on viewing this thread, this picture came to mind.

[aussiebebe]

How can this not be satire from 'Not the Nation'? Even by Thai standards it's just too comical; 'Hey let's build the worlds' third longest tunnel in two years!'

It took them 6 years and 11 billion baht to build the 10.5km drainage canal from Svarnabhumi.

[mindabenda]

So the evaluation and recommendations by engineers from the Netherlands fell upon deaf ears. It was only two weeks ago that a plan was given. I guess the acedemics at Chulakorn know better.

[MaiChai]

200 billion baht. Plenty of graft money to spread around.

[ResX]

If I can put it nicely and diplomatically..... Let you make it as your last option. For sure there is a better way to to resolve your flood problem. To be honest it is quiet a straight forward problem with a straight forward solution. Unless you have to land to spare to contain the flood waters and by the same time you keep on "invading" the paths that have been used by flood waters since the last 5000 years ago...

[Heimdallr]

Someone just wants a piece of that massive project. True goldmine to all the politicians and other people involved.

[hellodolly]

How about this ten kilometers down

quote

"He explained that the tunnel would be designed as a double-decked underground structure.

The upper deck would be used as a road under normal conditions while the lower deck would be used as a drainage channel."

Definitely need air conditioner in your car.

[surangw]

under the water level ?

will they get water to flow uphill?

[Phatcharanan]

Thailand.

International hub of tunnels.

[Tywais]

The upper deck would be used as a road under normal conditions while the lower deck would be used as a drainage channel."

Definitely need air conditioner in your car.

It's not the heat it's the humidity.

Doing a quick look around and can't find anything deeper than around 287 Meters and that is a sub-sea tunnel in Norway.

//edit - found something to compare it to making it a very enterprising tunnel.

Today, the deepest hole ever created by humankind lies beneath the tower enclosing Kola’s drill. A number of boreholes split from the central branch, but the deepest is designated “SG-3,” a hole about nine inches wide which snakes over 12.262 kilometers (7.5 miles) into the Earth’s crust. The drill spent twenty-four years chewing its way to that depth, until its progress was finally halted in 1994, about 2.7 kilometers (1.7 miles) short of its 15,000-meter goal.

The deepest hole

So,it seems 10 meters is what the article meant as I believe most subway systems would be in that neighborhood.

[givenall]

A copy of the KL solution, 20 times bigger, impractical and TOO BL00DY EXPENSIVE!!!

Another new big project to line up officials pocket

[IsaanUSA]

Doing a quick look around and can't find anything deeper than around 287 Meters and that is a sub-sea tunnel in Norway.

//edit - found something to compare it to making it a very enterprising tunnel.

Today, the deepest hole ever created by humankind lies beneath the tower enclosing Kola’s drill. A number of boreholes split from the central branch, but the deepest is designated “SG-3,” a hole about nine inches wide which snakes over 12.262 kilometers (7.5 miles) into the Earth’s crust. The drill spent twenty-four years chewing its way to that depth, until its progress was finally halted in 1994, about 2.7 kilometers (1.7 miles) short of its 15,000-meter goal.

The deepest hole

So,it seems 10 meters is what the article meant as I believe most subway systems would be in that neighborhood.

<deleted>? Well you just killed my dream of a journey to the center of the earth. 24 years??

[monkfish]

under the water level ?

will they get water to flow uphill?

Off course yes it's possible for water to flow uphill! don't you not know that?

It's really basic 3rd grade Physics! Even Romans 2000 years ago new about it.

To put it in layman's terms and compare you can use the same theory to syphon Petrol from one car to another with a long tube.

Look up Syphon in wikipedia to understand how it works.

Well here I found a basic explanation to help you understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphon

What I wonder about is does it have anything to do with the visit by Swiss water management experts who recently visited Thailand? who of course got fobbed off TV nay sayers.

Anyway if the answer is yes then I am 100% sure the project will be successful as they have the best water management and tunnel building engineers in the World.

I am no expert but would assume the tunnels would be powered by a large reservoir or dam such as this one.

http://www.jamesbond...hp?m=tr&g=tr009

or this one

http://www.swissdams...ault_e.asp?ID=1

If anyone doubts Swiss expertise when it comes to water management here is a list of dams in Switzerland.

http://www.swissdams...ort=HauteurDesc

Germany, Italy and Holland are all 100% dependant on Swiss Dams to prevent flooding in there country especially Holland

From what I understand Swiss are also pretty good at building tunnels, like 20KM tunnels through pure Granite.

So my conclusion is if the project is engineered by Swiss it's going to work otherwise nope don't think so but lets see what evolves.

[onionluke]

I guess it will all be done in millimeters then .