wlcart Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think Thailand just likes messing with our heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyscot Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Isn't it illegal to hold Thai and foreign passports? He will have to decide which country he really calls home. Simple answer is No it is not illegal to hold a Thai passport and foreign passport at the same time! There are plenty of threads on TV that support this answer. Maybe not so straightforward to answer, I suppose it would depend on whatever national passports he currently holds, he may legally have to surrender whichever passport he now holds depending on that country's laws before accepting another,, but then again I don't suppose many cons do things legally,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: Thaksin was not deprived of his Thai nationality. Passports are government property that can be issued or cancelled at government discretion. Cancellation of a passport is not synonymous with revocation of citizenship. You will find that many countries cancel or refuse to renew the passports of convicted criminals on the run. The US government cancelled Bobby Fischer's passport in 2004 which meant he was detained in Japan for 7 months for not having a valid passport until Iceland granted him citizenship and he was deported there. Even though he never got another US passport, Bobby Fischer remained a US citizen until he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID I think you may find if you go and read the "notes" pages in your own passport you will find your countries passport is exactly the same... This is certainly the case with a British passport. Further you are confusing having/loosing a passport and its impact on citizenship, getting your passport revokes has no bearing on your citizenship at all, a passport is a travel document thats all. Yes in the British passport it states that the passport is the property of HM Government, which infers that it is not the property or right thereof the individual whose name is inside it. If the mood took the UK government they could cancel and revoke my passport whenever they so felt inclined to do so and there would be very little other than going to court that i could do to get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdoom6996 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) it doesn't matter if you have been convicted or not your government should have no authority to cancel your passport, even if you are convicted , if you are convicted they should prevent you from leaving the country, an if you still can run away then they should use Interpol or something , but they should not touch you citizenship at all and i say this not cuz i support Thaksin i say it just cuz is my view and in particular case of K. Thaksin there is a lot of political motivated s... involved A passport is not a right, its a privilage and a passport is a goverments property not an indivduals, so a specific goverment can do what they please with someones passport. Further getting your passport revokes does not infer you have lost your citizenship, these are two completely different topics. Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID You might want to check the last page of your passport. I'll wager it can be revoked if say you are convicted of a felony in a country other than your own. Your government has a reputation to keep up. Edited December 2, 2011 by webfact quote fixed /Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think Thailand just likes messing with our heads You could well be right.....they also might spread stories like these to the press and TV to test reactions before actually doing it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribbeanman Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: Thaksin was not deprived of his Thai nationality. Passports are government property that can be issued or cancelled at government discretion. Cancellation of a passport is not synonymous with revocation of citizenship. You will find that many countries cancel or refuse to renew the passports of convicted criminals on the run. The US government cancelled Bobby Fischer's passport in 2004 which meant he was detained in Japan for 7 months for not having a valid passport until Iceland granted him citizenship and he was deported there. Even though he never got another US passport, Bobby Fischer remained a US citizen until he died. You just brought an excellent example, the US government did that based only in political motivated crap,,,,so the poor guy must to get another country's citizenship to save his life and his freedom, that's one of the many reasons that i renounced to my US citizenship, cuz i just don't want any government controlling me or telling me what to do....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Don't understand about diplomatic passport. How would he ever be entitled to one. He isn't a diplomat and probably never could be as convicted felon on the run.... It seems to be a normal courtesy here, for former-PMs to be given a diplomatic-passport, of course normally they wouldn't also be convicted felons on-the-run. They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: I agree with you but how many of the hill tribe / ethnic groups in the border regions, who are born and bred on Thai soil and whsoe families have lived here for generations still find themselves with very little in terms of paper work proving they are Thai. This has been ongoing for years and still their children are refused education, basic health care etc. Not all Thais are born equal, but at least the hill-tribes form a convenient supply of cheap-labour, and it only costs an alleged-20k per-person to 'facilitate' obtaining the proper paperwork. A nice little earner, and long has been so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Even more grist for the mill. Oh well. The government has their priorities sorted. . It seems to be the case of "sod the people and their problems" lets make everything relate to the concerns of one person only. You know, the person who "WAS NOT" a priority for this government. Come the new year it will be a case of "what floods" for this disingenuine government, now lets get down to "the nitty gritty" of bringing Thaksin home!!!!. The whole thing "stinks"!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribbeanman Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 it doesn't matter if you have been convicted or not your government should have no authority to cancel your passport, even if you are convicted , if you are convicted they should prevent you from leaving the country, an if you still can run away then they should use Interpol or something , but they should not touch you citizenship at all and i say this not cuz i support Thaksin i say it just cuz is my view and in particular case of K. Thaksin there is a lot of political motivated s... involved A passport is not a right, its a privilage and a passport is a goverments property not an indivduals, so a specific goverment can do what they please with someones passport. Further getting your passport revokes does not infer you have lost your citizenship, these are two completely different topics. Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID You might want to check the last page of your passport. I'll wager it can be revoked if say you are convicted of a felony in a country other than your own. Your government has a reputation to keep up. of which one of them??? the passport that use the most in the last page only says that it is valid for 6 years and etc, nothing about revoke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) And this move is going to help the reconciliation movement HOWW??????. Edited December 2, 2011 by metisdead Large font resized to normal size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAffer Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID I think you may find if you go and read the "notes" pages in your own passport you will find your countries passport is exactly the same... This is certainly the case with a British passport. Further you are confusing having/loosing a passport and its impact on citizenship, getting your passport revoked has no bearing on your citizenship at all, a passport is a travel document thats all. "That's your country, not mine:)" I agree with Soutpeel; go and read the conditions inside your passport... it is normal for it to be the property of the government. Passport is a travel document, and has no effect on citizenship. Many suspects in serious crimes need to surrender their passports upon being released on bail. They are still citizens, but have a travel restriction. Your opinion and the facts appear to be at odds with one another.<br style="background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxteen Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Well I have to admit there is a certain honesty in this government. Thaksin spent billions of baht to get them elected, and now they are paying him back..... An xmas gift for him The spirit of Xmas is good this time and hope he enjoy his passport.Happy Santa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 it doesn't matter if you have been convicted or not your government should have no authority to cancel your passport, even if you are convicted , if you are convicted they should prevent you from leaving the country, an if you still can run away then they should use Interpol or something , but they should not touch you citizenship at all and i say this not cuz i support Thaksin i say it just cuz is my view and in particular case of K. Thaksin there is a lot of political motivated s... involved A passport is not a right, its a privilage and a passport is a goverments property not an indivduals, so a specific goverment can do what they please with someones passport. Further getting your passport revokes does not infer you have lost your citizenship, these are two completely different topics. Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID Just checked my Australian Passport and it states ... "THIS PASSPORT REMAINS THE PROPERTY OF THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT" ... but this statement was on the inside of the back cover ... have your throughly checked your passport for a similiar statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Even more grist for the mill. Oh well. The government has their priorities sorted. . It seems to be the case of "sod the people and their problems" lets make everything relate to the concerns of one person only. You know, the person who "WAS NOT" a priority for this government. Come the new year it will be a case of "what floods" for this disingenuine government, now lets get down to "the nitty gritty" of bringing Thaksin home!!!!. The whole thing "stinks"!!!! Don't forget the 800 Billion of "Mad Money" the floods are providing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Isn't it illegal to hold Thai and foreign passports? He will have to decide which country he really calls home. If that is the case Khun Mark better decide whether he wants to stay in Thailand or otherwise the only army covering his ass back this time would be the Toon Army. I believe he doesnt have a British passport although he could be entitled to one. The point isn't the possession of a passport, it's the dual citizenship. Khun Mark is a British citizen as well as a Thai citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcliff069 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: someone on this forum who actually has a brain amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribbeanman Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Don't understand about diplomatic passport. How would he ever be entitled to one. He isn't a diplomat and probably never could be as convicted felon on the run.... It seems to be a normal courtesy here, for former-PMs to be given a diplomatic-passport, of course normally they wouldn't also be convicted felons on-the-run. They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: I agree with you but how many of the hill tribe / ethnic groups in the border regions, who are born and bred on Thai soil and whsoe families have lived here for generations still find themselves with very little in terms of paper work proving they are Thai. This has been ongoing for years and still their children are refused education, basic health care etc. Not all Thais are born equal, but at least the hill-tribes form a convenient supply of cheap-labour, and it only costs an alleged-20k per-person to 'facilitate' obtaining the proper paperwork. A nice little earner, and long has been so. Yes, i know that, that's why i think the law regarding to who is can get Thai citizenship and who not ,should be change, i know many people that has been born in this country, that only speak Thai , that have known nothing but Thailand and still they can't get the citizenship, it's a very sad situation. Edited December 2, 2011 by caribbeanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorSucker Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Government has the authority that people give to them , my whole point is just that no government should have the authority to revoke passports ,citizenship etc, they issue a passport not as a give ,but as a service that you, as a citizen are entitle to receive, if you have been convicted by a impartial court, and they let you run away then they can issue a warrant for your arrest with the Interpol,right??? Some countries denies passports to registered sex offenders. All countries should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Khun Mark is a British citizen as well as a Thai citizen. Is he a British citizen or entitled to British citizenship ?...not the same thing...he may have the right, but not invoked the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerveB Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Near is my shirt but nearer is my skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Near is my shirt but nearer is my skin See the long weekend drinking session has started already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: someone on this forum who actually has a brain amazing Two people who seemingly share 1 brain cell more like it!!!!:jap:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAffer Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 of which one of them??? the passport that use the most in the last page only says that it is valid for 6 years and etc, nothing about revoke it. Ownership of the passport is what you are contending erroneously. This passport remains the property of the Government of xxxxx and may, in terms of xxxx Act, be withdrawn or cancelled and shall in that event forthwith be surrendered by the bearer to the said Government... You can't tell us your country of origin because another from there would easily refute your baseless argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I really don't see any reason for there to be a fuss over this... Just tell Khun T.. OK, passport's ready and waiting... Come pick it up at Bangkok Remand Prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAffer Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Maybe here in Thailand is like you say, but in my country , a passport is not a privilege, its a right of every single citizen, and is not property of the government is property of the holder and revoking your passport obviously is a form of hurting or limiting your citizenship, cuz is the same that if you are a citizen and the government deprive you from your ID I think you may find if you go and read the "notes" pages in your own passport you will find your countries passport is exactly the same... This is certainly the case with a British passport. Further you are confusing having/loosing a passport and its impact on citizenship, getting your passport revoked has no bearing on your citizenship at all, a passport is a travel document thats all. i'm not confusing having your passport revoked with having your citizenship revoked, I'm a lawyer, sir, i know perfectly well what i am talking about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 And this move is going to help the reconciliation movement HOWW?????? It will balance the scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxteen Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think he just renew his passport and have rights.Too long out of the country passport expired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fvw53 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 They should have done this long ago, no country should deprive their citizens from their nationality , ID or passport cuz governments easily could use this as a political weapon , that's why i don't understand how so many countries call themselves democracies and still they have this kind of laws. :jap: There is always confusion between passport and nationality. The passport is only an indication of nationality (you can make fake passports) and only the city hall which issued your birth certificate has full authority to certify nationality (ask a certain Mr Obama) The majority of the Thai peole do not travel (except some border crossing) and therefore have no passport but nevertheless they have Thai nationality. Foreigners in Thailand who loose their passports do not get automatically a new one from their Embassy : some checks will done by the authorities in their home country. If the case is urgent and a declaration has been made to a Thai police station about the loss of the passport then most Embassies will issue another passport quickly but only valid for a short time so that the foreigner - if he is only a tourist and not a resident in Thailand - can still return to his country of origin. If checks in the home country reveal that the foreigner is wanted there by police for interrogation or arrest then also a passport of short duration and only valid to travel to the home country will be issued. If the foreigner is wanted for serious crimes then if the home country is a member state of Interpol the Embassy will alert the Thai division of Interpol which will have to take care of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Khun Mark is a British citizen as well as a Thai citizen. Is he a British citizen or entitled to British citizenship ?...not the same thing...he may have the right, but not invoked the right As far as I am aware if you are born in Britain you are automatically a British Citizen, whether you want to be or not. You can renounce it but you have to go to court. Khun Mark took a lot of time remembering whether he was or not. A fuller discussion took place on the Asian Correspondent website. Have a google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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