Surapong Faces Impeachment Over Thaksin's Passport

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When deleting quoted posts to meet the nested quotes criteria, be careful so as to delete individual posts while keeping the quote headers intact. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature, just copy the content you wish to respond to and paste the content in between the quote brackets.

[tingtongfarang]

And what will happen if Khun Thaksin is given his Thai passport ... what will happen if he returns to Thailand.... Does anyone think for one second he will be sent to prison to serve his punishment..? That will be civil war..... give him his passport and a return ticket first class on Thai Airways..... put the cat amongst the pidgeons.... lets get it on...!!!!

All fun fun fun for us Farangs......... anyone running a book..? Personally I back the Military.. they got all the Big guns...

i would back the vast majority of regular soldiers who happen to come from the North East

Would that be the same soldiers who rolled out the tanks and put yellow ribbons on thier guns last time the reset button was pressed?

nope that would be the mob who are stationed at lop buri (The 2nd Infantry Battalion) and are drawn mainly from Bangkok and the south of Thailand. And are always the main mob used in suppression of

the Thai public.

We can only hope they are ready when the reset has to be pushed again as last time it was working quite smooth and sadly was very much needed, i remember well driving home late that night...i always had imagined coups to be bullets flying past your ears and spilt blood on the street the few people noticed i apart from the very peacfull looking soldiers seemed to have a smile,

Edited December 2, 2011 by tingtongfarang

[TAWP]

The simple answer to this is that taking Thaksins passport away was a political decision not a legal decision. Getting it back should work the same way!

So you don't think there is a legal precedent in most countries for calling back passports from fugitive criminals?

[h90]

And what will happen if Khun Thaksin is given his Thai passport ... what will happen if he returns to Thailand.... Does anyone think for one second he will be sent to prison to serve his punishment..? That will be civil war..... give him his passport and a return ticket first class on Thai Airways..... put the cat amongst the pidgeons.... lets get it on...!!!!

All fun fun fun for us Farangs......... anyone running a book..? Personally I back the Military.. they got all the Big guns...

i would back the vast majority of regular soldiers who happen to come from the North East

Would that be the same soldiers who rolled out the tanks and put yellow ribbons on thier guns last time the reset button was pressed?

nope that would be the mob who are stationed at lop buri (The 2nd Infantry Battalion) and are drawn mainly from Bangkok and the south of Thailand. And are always the main mob used in suppression of

the Thai public.

what did they suppress? And is Bangkok and the south not part of the Thai public?

[tlansford]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

[Jingthing]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

[rubl]

The simple answer to this is that taking Thaksins passport away was a political decision not a legal decision. Getting it back should work the same way!

So you don't think there is a legal precedent in most countries for calling back passports from fugitive criminals?

"Passports as government property

Most countries declare by law that passports are government property, and may be limited or revoked at any time, usually on specified grounds. A limitation or a revocation is generally subject to judicial review.[edit]

Passports and bail

In many countries, surrender of a passport is made a condition of granting bail.[24] While on bail a person may be barred from applying for a passport or collecting a passport already applied for."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport

[bino]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes. After all, I believe it is pretty much standard policy in every civilized country to deny passports and travel documents to convicted criminals, especially those who are on the run from prison sentences and outstanding warrants. If Thailand will give Thaksin a passport, he must be Mr. Clean, right? Robert Amsterdam could make a lot of hay out of this fact.

For the average guy like you and me who can't afford to spend megabucks on a Montenegrin citizenship, having our passports revoked would be drastic indeed. The eventuality would be having to return to our respective homeland to face the laws and due process that caused the revocation. Thaksin will go to every length / spend whatever it takes / bribe anyone possible to avoid this, and even more so of these if he can regain lost face.

[nurofiend]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes. After all, I believe it is pretty much standard policy in every civilized country to deny passports and travel documents to convicted criminals, especially those who are on the run from prison sentences and outstanding warrants. If Thailand will give Thaksin a passport, he must be Mr. Clean, right? Robert Amsterdam could make a lot of hay out of this fact.

For the average guy like you and me who can't afford to spend megabucks on a Montenegrin citizenship, having our passports revoked would be drastic indeed. The eventuality would be having to return to our respective homeland to face the laws and due process that caused the revocation. Thaksin will go to every length / spend whatever it takes / bribe anyone possible to avoid this, and even more so of these if he can regain lost face.

"It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes"

sorry to tell you this mate but a lot of people in the global community already do see it like this

one run of the mill poster here already claimed that this was down to his super effective team of a small few western PR firms.. simple as that

oh how easily the "global community" are fooled but the regular TV posters know better than them of course, considering their higher credentials.

Edited December 2, 2011 by nurofiend

[FOODLOVER]

And what will happen if Khun Thaksin is given his Thai passport ... what will happen if he returns to Thailand.... Does anyone think for one second he will be sent to prison to serve his punishment..? That will be civil war..... give him his passport and a return ticket first class on Thai Airways..... put the cat amongst the pidgeons.... lets get it on...!!!!

All fun fun fun for us Farangs......... anyone running a book..? Personally I back the Military.. they got all the Big guns...

i would back the vast majority of regular soldiers who happen to come from the North East

Would that be the same soldiers who rolled out the tanks and put yellow ribbons on thier guns last time the reset button was pressed?

nope that would be the mob who are stationed at lop buri (The 2nd Infantry Battalion) and are drawn mainly from Bangkok and the south of Thailand. And are always the main mob used in suppression of

the Thai public.

The same Thai public that hurled grenades at civilians?

[OzMick]

Do not assume that the military will be unanimous in its support of overthrowing the elected government. The return of Mr. Thaksin's passport will not do it. One need only look at the the Bangkok protests to see that there was and most likely still is division in the ranks. Action against the protestors only occurred when various Royal Guard units were deployed. Until that time, the military had adopted a non confrontational containment strategy. At the time, there were accusations of complicity and tacit support for the protestors made against some of the military commanders. Some of thpse very same commanders were front and forward during recent flood relief operations and have cordial professional relations with the government. The decision to make nice with Mr. Thaksin would not have been taken unless someone had a good idea of the military rank and file sentiment. Keep in mind that are a lot of junior and midlevel officers that cannot move up because the command structure is top heavy with generals. Nothing like a dispute to get rid of those standing in the way of a promotion.

I'm sure any "tacit support" for the reds by military commanders evaporated when one of their number was killed and another lost his legs.

[FOODLOVER]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

Local discounts.

[pimay11]

let this Dr Tul idiot put himself up for election if he wants to interfere so much in political matters!

Any decent democracy allows the opposing voice. In this case it is the voice of moderation which this country so badly needs. Indeed, the world would be a lot poorer place without such characters and organisations. So do not belittle this chap. Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with him, it's about allowing the voice to be heard.

lol the voice of moderation from an extreme right winger who believes parliament should be nominated and all things that don't benefit the elite or amarts be squashed.

I cant believe the amount of people on this site who have bought the bit lie theory: it really is sad to see the lack of ability to see through establishment propaganda!

It always amuses me to see a red defender on TV refer to the opposition as the "elite or amarts". They conveniently overlook the fact that Thaksin and Yingluck are true elites and amarts.

[jonclark]

let this Dr Tul idiot put himself up for election if he wants to interfere so much in political matters!

Sorry I'm finding it hard to see why you are defending the proposal to issue a passport to Taksin he is a convicted (rightly or wrongly) and on the run. If you imply your support the principle of a re-issuance of a passport to absconding criminals/convicts. Would your support extend to say the UK government re-issuing a passport to a convicted on the run sex offender whose used it to journey around the world? Perhaps he would stop off in Thailand? Who knows? Or would you slam the UK government for being bang out of order and not using all means necessary to return said offender to serve their time? The principle involved here is clear. One rule of law for all, no exceptions, no privilege [even shock horror if you were elected]. Taksin should return to Thailand, fight his case or serve his time end of story.

The simple answer to this is that taking Thaksins passport away was a political decision not a legal decision. Getting it back should work the same way!

He is a convict on the run. How is revoking the passport of an on the run convict NOT a legal decision. The decision to revoke the passport was made AFTER the court found him guilty and he was busily visiting various destinations on a Thai passport. How is that a political decision? I sure there was as much political interference a in the legal system in this instance as there was when Taksin was running the show. So he can hardly claim it as unfair when he was guilty of the same manipulations against his opponents - Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[metisdead]

Posts have been deleted for failure to use quote function leading to misunderstanding of who posted what.

[animatic]

let this Dr Tul idiot put himself up for election if he wants to interfere so much in political matters!

Any decent democracy allows the opposing voice. In this case it is the voice of moderation which this country so badly needs. Indeed, the world would be a lot poorer place without such characters and organisations. So do not belittle this chap. Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with him, it's about allowing the voice to be heard.

lol the voice of moderation from an extreme right winger who believes parliament should be nominated and all things that don't benefit the elite or amarts be squashed.

I cant believe the amount of people on this site who have bought the bit lie theory: it really is sad to see the lack of ability to see through establishment propaganda!

You might gain any credibility if you could lead your defaming allegation to proof.

Clearly PB has no idea of the historical postings of the Libertarian member of TVF.

" extreme right winger " ROTFLOL, clueless comment; from a not so right "wenger".

[KKvampire]

Dont be surprised at all methods to pander to the Criminal EX PM. PTP floated their full pardon idea but soon backed off it,now it's piece meal acts. Does anyone really believe PT are anything less than a mouth piece for their fugitive mass embezzler former PM? Well apart from a few Falangs on TV and three quarters of Isaan.

[FOODLOVER]

PaulBax

"no the same military that has been killing Thai citizens with impunity since the 1930's

"it also seems that mentioning that Dr Tul was involved in the airport occupations and was a regular speaker there is worth a deletion"!

Your correct. They killed many people down south under Thaksins watch.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[Buchholz]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes. After all, I believe it is pretty much standard policy in every civilized country to deny passports and travel documents to convicted criminals, especially those who are on the run from prison sentences and outstanding warrants. If Thailand will give Thaksin a passport, he must be Mr. Clean, right? Robert Amsterdam could make a lot of hay out of this fact.

For the average guy like you and me who can't afford to spend megabucks on a Montenegrin citizenship, having our passports revoked would be drastic indeed. The eventuality would be having to return to our respective homeland to face the laws and due process that caused the revocation. Thaksin will go to every length / spend whatever it takes / bribe anyone possible to avoid this, and even more so of these if he can regain lost face.

Excellent comments bino.

There are no real practical differences as he already has 2 diplomatic passports (from the very bottom of corruption list of countries) and the loss of his Thai passport hasn't hampered his ability to travel to Zimbabwe, for example, for meetings with Mugabe.

The practical value is secondary to the "face" value and you're right in that Amsterdam would play it to the hilt.

.

[bino]

sorry to tell you this mate but a lot of people in the global community already do see it like this

That is why is used the word "stregthen".

one run of the mill poster here already claimed that this was down to his super effective team of a small few western PR firms.. simple as that

oh how easily the "global community" are fooled but the regular TV posters know better than them of course, considering their higher credentials.

There is a lot of validity to this too. Look at the stigma Thailand has in the global community. People who have never been here believe that Thailand is a 3 third world country, part of the "golden triangle" that produces bad drugs, where child prostitution is rife, where all of the women are prostitutes and anyone who comes here is a sex fiend. Where did they learn this? From the media. Why do they believe it? Because in our first world democracies where freedom of speech is guaranteed, the media is to be trusted.

Those of us who do live here amongst the Thai people do know better. Whilst there is no denying that these problems exist in Thailand, they are nowhere near the same as the western media "spin artists" have made them out to be.

[SICHONSTEVE]

let this Dr Tul idiot put himself up for election if he wants to interfere so much in political matters!

Always good to have somebody in the opposition. What is being proposed is a bit shakey. Maybe the FM could focus on matters more important to Thailand right now?

Like helping restore confidence in Thailand, promoting the stability of the country, co-operating with Tourists Association to get tourists back, etc., etc. This should not be about a single person named Thaksin, this should be about all Thai people, lots of whom still have a flooded home, flooded workplace / no work / no income

No!!! No!!! No!!! The importance of Thaksin getting his passport back (and him back to Thailand) is way above that of the people of Thailand's well being!!! After all, many of them voted Pheu Thai in for this reason, and this reason alone, so the government must serve their wishes and bring him back!!!!

A little bit more paddling in their paddling pools won't do them any more harm will it!!!!:jap:.

It's a case of "come on in, the water's lovely!!!

Edited December 3, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[hammered]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes. After all, I believe it is pretty much standard policy in every civilized country to deny passports and travel documents to convicted criminals, especially those who are on the run from prison sentences and outstanding warrants. If Thailand will give Thaksin a passport, he must be Mr. Clean, right? Robert Amsterdam could make a lot of hay out of this fact.

For the average guy like you and me who can't afford to spend megabucks on a Montenegrin citizenship, having our passports revoked would be drastic indeed. The eventuality would be having to return to our respective homeland to face the laws and due process that caused the revocation. Thaksin will go to every length / spend whatever it takes / bribe anyone possible to avoid this, and even more so of these if he can regain lost face.

"It will strengthen his position in the global community as a person who isn't a criminal and belongs in jail, but rather one who has been treated unfairly by previous governments and military regimes"

sorry to tell you this mate but a lot of people in the global community already do see it like this

one run of the mill poster here already claimed that this was down to his super effective team of a small few western PR firms.. simple as that

oh how easily the "global community" are fooled but the regular TV posters know better than them of course, considering their higher credentials.

And his position was strengthened when "his" party won the election

[Buchholz]

sorry to tell you this mate but a lot of people in the global community already do see it like this

That is why is used the word "stregthen".

one run of the mill poster here already claimed that this was down to his super effective team of a small few western PR firms.. simple as that

oh how easily the "global community" are fooled but the regular TV posters know better than them of course, considering their higher credentials.

There is a lot of validity to this too. Look at the stigma Thailand has in the global community. People who have never been here believe that Thailand is a 3 third world country, part of the "golden triangle" that produces bad drugs, where child prostitution is rife, where all of the women are prostitutes and anyone who comes here is a sex fiend. Where did they learn this? From the media. Why do they believe it? Because in our first world democracies where freedom of speech is guaranteed, the media is to be trusted.

Those of us who do live here amongst the Thai people do know better. Whilst there is no denying that these problems exist in Thailand, they are nowhere near the same as the western media "spin artists" have made them out to be.

There's a reason why millions are spent on perception management and public relations.

It's often successful.

.

[tlansford]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

[Jingthing]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

He probably doesn't need a visa to go to jail in Thailand. All probably moot anyway as despite his passport issues, his Thai nationality isn't really under question.

Anyway, I see all this as a drip, drip, drip policy. Keep pushing with small steps and big steps whenever possible, towards what we all know the PTP is after.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Jingthing

[tlansford]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

He probably doesn't need a visa to go to jail in Thailand. All probably moot anyway as despite his passport issues, his Thai nationality isn't really under question.

Anyway, I see all this as a drip, drip, drip policy. Keep pushing with small steps and big steps whenever possible, towards what we all know the PTP is after.

drip, drip, drip, ... could be. But if it is not part of a larger picture, then it is not worth the opposition that it would generate (has generated). It looks like a one-step-at-a-time thing. I just don't see the practical change / next step that returning a passport brings.

[lannarebirth]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

The reason they're doing it now is because they're still in their honeymoon period and the ministers that propose these moves are both wholly owned and disposable. What practical benefit might it have? If it passes then then its removal will be considered "political". If THAT'S considered political than what else might be? Next thing you know he's calling on foreign dignitaries as Thailand's representative for trade talks .

[tlansford]

Does anyone know the practical differences it makes if Thaksin has a Thai passport?

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

The reason they're doing it now is because they're still in their honeymoon period and the ministers that propose these moves are both wholly owned and disposable. What practical benefit might it have? If it passes then then its removal will be considered "political". If THAT'S considered political than what else might be? Next thing you know he's calling on foreign dignitaries as Thailand's representative for trade talks .

a weakening of resistance, as it were...

[mrfarang]

"Alliance of Patriots". Let me guess, a yellow guy in a grey suit? An airport hugger?

Edited December 3, 2011 by mrfarang

[lannarebirth]

How about this?

He won't need a VISA for a long stay in Thailand!

Do Montenegrins get 30 day stamps or not?

well, yes, that one is obvious, but I would assume a few other things must happen before Thaksin tries to return.

My question is why would the govt do this now? What does it change for Thaksin? The other answer of "credibility" doesn't seem to me to be significant, so there must be some other reason or they would not push this.

The reason they're doing it now is because they're still in their honeymoon period and the ministers that propose these moves are both wholly owned and disposable. What practical benefit might it have? If it passes then then its removal will be considered "political". If THAT'S considered political than what else might be? Next thing you know he's calling on foreign dignitaries as Thailand's representative for trade talks .

a weakening of resistance, as it were...

It's not going to work that way. If anything these recurring transparent ploys will stiffen resistance amongst those who may have thought this was a legitimate government (yes, there are people that naive) that had intended to serve the interests of more than just one man.