Ex-Deputy PM Suthep Grilled Over Thai Protests Deaths

[webfact]

Ex-deputy PM grilled over Thai protests deaths

BANGKOK, December 8, 2011 (AFP) - Thai police on Thursday questioned a former deputy prime minister in connection with a deadly military crackdown on mass opposition protests in the capital Bangkok last year.

Suthep Thaugsuban, who was in charge of national security at the time of the demonstrations, told reporters after visiting the Metropolitan Police headquarters as a witness that he had "acted within the law".

He added: "All officials were following orders which were given under the law."

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

On Friday former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is due to be grilled by police as a witness.

It is the first time that top members of the previous government have been summoned for questioning over their handling of the protests, which ended when soldiers firing live rounds stormed the fortified rally site.

Thailand now has a new government allied to the Red Shirts' hero, fugitive former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, whose sister Yingluck is prime minister.

Her Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung last month said that Thai authorities had clear evidence that government troops were responsible for the death of a Japanese cameraman during last year's crackdown.

Police initially insisted that soldiers were not behind the killing of Reuters cameraman Hiroyuki Muramoto, one of two foreign journalists killed during clashes between troops and protesters.

On Wednesday Chalerm also told reporters that a "senior police officer", whom he did not identify, was behind the high-profile death of a renegade major-general who became an unofficial military advisor to the Red Shirts.

Khattiya Sawasdipol, known as Seh Daeng, was shot in the head during an interview with a foreign reporter near the protest site -- an area where snipers were deployed at the time -- and later died in hospital.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-12-08

[lannarebirth]

This was written up better in the Bangkok Post, along with a short Suthep interview. So now all that remains is to get Abhisit and Thaksin's questioning done.

Edited December 8, 2011 by lannarebirth

[Lite Beer]

Ex-Deputy PM Suthep testifies to police on Red Shirt crackdown

BANGKOK, Dec 8 - Thailand's former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban on Thursday testified to police on the alleged crackdown on Red Shirt protesters last year, saying he was unperturbed over the case.

Mr Suthep, who supervised national security in the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration, directed the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), the agency set up to handle the street protests mounted by the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) during April and May, 2010 after a state of emergency was imposed to maintain law and order as demonstrations turned violent.

Mr Suthep turned up at Metropolitan Police headquarters after being summoned by investigators to give information on the death of 16 persons killed during the security operations to seal off Red Shirt rally compound at Khok Wua intersection April 10 last year.

The Democrat MP for Surat Thani told reporters before the police enquiry that he came to meet investigators today as a witness and that he was confident that he could answer all questions without any worries. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-12-08

[tukkytuktuk]

Have the government got there timing right on this one? The red shirt protest is old news, now everyone is more concerned with the devestating flooding. Anyone can see that this is being brought up now to be used as a bargaining chip to help bring pressure on the democrats to sign an amnesty agreement that will allow Thaksin to return to Thailand.

[tominbkk]

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

[tukkytuktuk]

You need a private detective to back up your post.

[hellodolly]

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

A couple of things

1 When they get Thaksin back are they going to grill him?

2 Are they saying that the actions of the red shirts were OK?

3 That the government should have ignored them and let them continue to hold down town Bangkok as a hostage burn it down or what ever they felt like doing it was OK to invade hospitals?

Edited December 8, 2011 by hellodolly

[jonclark]

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

A couple of things

1 When they get Thaksin back are they going to grill him?

2 Are they saying that the actions of the red shirts were OK?

3 That the government should have ignored them and let them continue to hold down town Bangkok as a hostage burn it down or what ever they felt like doing it was OK to invade hospitals?

My guess is

1) No

2) Yes

3) Yes

[Bakseedaa]

Have the government got there timing right on this one? The red shirt protest is old news, now everyone is more concerned with the devestating flooding. Anyone can see that this is being brought up now to be used as a bargaining chip to help bring pressure on the democrats to sign an amnesty agreement that will allow Thaksin to return to Thailand.

Do not be so naive.....

[Bakseedaa]

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

Yes Tom.... fully agree.... it was fun was,nt it..!

[tukkytuktuk]

No it wasn't fun, it was organised chaos, a bullying mob paid to cause trouble, the kind of trouble you see atfter a football match, with hooligans wrecking the place. Oh and naive, thats what the red shirts prey on. Naive people who are easily persuaded to believe their hatred ideas.

[monkfish]

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

I would like to just quote one sentence from the OP story which is unfortunately always overlooked.

Did someone mentions hooligans at a football match?

Indeed at just about every football match there are a few hooligans!

But does that mean all supporters of that team are to blame?

[whybother]

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

I would like to just quote one sentence from the OP story which is unfortunately always overlooked.

Did someone mentions hooligans at a football match?

Indeed at just about every football match there are a few hooligans!

But does that mean all supporters of that team are to blame?

The teams get fined or banned if they don't do something about their hooligan supporters. The difference here is that the hooligans get rewarded.

[Buchholz]

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

I would like to just quote one sentence from the OP story which is unfortunately always overlooked.

Did someone mentions hooligans at a football match?

Indeed at just about every football match there are a few hooligans!

But does that mean all supporters of that team are to blame?

The teams get fined or banned if they don't do something about their hooligan supporters. The difference here is that the hooligans get rewarded.

And the biggest hooligan owns the team

[HaleySabai]

Whenever I see Suthep I can't help but think of the 'Planet of the Apes'..........

[Jawnie]

Hate to put the "cabash" on your street justice approach to public security/safety. But, you arrest people, the guilty people, for the crimes you mention. You don't fire into crowds of protesters indiscriminately. Especially so if it's government troops doing the shooting. Now do you get it?

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

[whybother]

Hate to put the "cabash" on your street justice approach to public security/safety. But, you arrest people, the guilty people, for the crimes you mention. You don't fire into crowds of protesters indiscriminately. Especially so if it's government troops doing the shooting. Now do you get it?

What do you do when protesters are shooting back at you ... or lobbing grenades?

I don't think you do get it.

[sparebox2]

Whenever I see Suthep I can't help but think of the 'Planet of the Apes'..........

I also belive that's where hollywood get the idea for the film.

[unanimosity]

Whenever I see Suthep I can't help but think of the 'Planet of the Apes'..........

Do you suppose there may be apes out there that would resent that remark?

[webfact]

Abhisit to meet police, Suthep blames men in black

The Nation

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva is scheduled Friday at 1.00 pm to give his statement on the last year's political disturbances.

Abhisit will be accompanied by his chief lawyer Bundit Siripan. He is to meet 10 investigators at the Metropolitan Police Bureau.

Police has sought Abhisit's statement on his role as the then prime minister overseeing the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation tasked to keep peace in the face the red-shirt rallies.

The police interview of Abhisit is part of the forensic checks into the cause of 16 killings suspected to involve security forces. Altogether 91 people died in connection with violent incidents from March to May last year.

On Thursday, Democrat MP Suthep Thuagsuban, accompanied by his lawyer and former attorney general Kanung Luechai, gave his statement as the then deputy prime minister and CRES director.

Emerged from his meeting with investigators, he said he told police that he was responsible for the April 10, 2010 crowd control.

He said he issued the order as CRES director and that Abhisit had no involvement in the operations.

He asserted he acted within his mandate given by the emergency decree and that the security forces had carried out their work within the legal limits.

The violence and bloodshed on Rajdamnoen Avenue happened by the men in black, he said.

He is scheduled to meet police for a second interview on December 14 to outline incidents leading to the May 19, 2010 crowd dispersal at Ratchaprasong Intersection.

Chief investigator Maj General Anuchai Lekbumrung said he was confidence the report on the 16 deaths could be wrapped up by the December 17 deadline.

-- The Nation 2011-12-09

[unanimosity]

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

I would like to just quote one sentence from the OP story which is unfortunately always overlooked.

Did someone mentions hooligans at a football match?

Indeed at just about every football match there are a few hooligans!

But does that mean all supporters of that team are to blame?

The teams get fined or banned if they don't do something about their hooligan supporters. The difference here is that the hooligans get rewarded.

And the biggest hooligan owns the team

Thaksin is a rookie and needs to take a chapter from the Suthep play book.

Suthep, in two years in office, more than doubled his net worth from 39 million to 95 million. And that is just what is publicly recorded. So the obvious question is why do the Thaksin bashers give this man and his enabler Abhisit a free pass on unusual enrichment? Please don't go bashing Thaksin further. That is not the issue or the question. Why do we not hear condemnation of unusual enrichment when it is in your court?

Edited December 9, 2011 by unanimosity

[phiphidon]

Abhisit to meet police, Suthep blames men in black

The Nation

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva is scheduled Friday at 1.00 pm to give his statement on the last year's political disturbances.

Abhisit will be accompanied by his chief lawyer Bundit Siripan. He is to meet 10 investigators at the Metropolitan Police Bureau.

Police has sought Abhisit's statement on his role as the then prime minister overseeing the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation tasked to keep peace in the face the red-shirt rallies.

The police interview of Abhisit is part of the forensic checks into the cause of 16 killings suspected to involve security forces. Altogether 91 people died in connection with violent incidents from March to May last year.

On Thursday, Democrat MP Suthep Thuagsuban, accompanied by his lawyer and former attorney general Kanung Luechai, gave his statement as the then deputy prime minister and CRES director.

Emerged from his meeting with investigators, he said he told police that he was responsible for the April 10, 2010 crowd control.

He said he issued the order as CRES director and that Abhisit had no involvement in the operations.

He asserted he acted within his mandate given by the emergency decree and that the security forces had carried out their work within the legal limits.

The violence and bloodshed on Rajdamnoen Avenue happened by the men in black, he said.

He is scheduled to meet police for a second interview on December 14 to outline incidents leading to the May 19, 2010 crowd dispersal at Ratchaprasong Intersection.

Chief investigator Maj General Anuchai Lekbumrung said he was confidence the report on the 16 deaths could be wrapped up by the December 17 deadline.

-- The Nation 2011-12-09

"Police has sought Abhisit's statement on his role as the then prime minister overseeing the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation tasked to keep peace in the face the red-shirt rallies."

But then Suthep states;

He said he issued the order as CRES director and that Abhisit had no involvement in the operations. He asserted he acted within his mandate given by the emergency decree

Abhisit had no involvement in the operations? - only in the fact he is in charge of CRES and is responsible for its actions and personnel as he appoints them. Sorry, the buck stops with you Khun Mark.

The declaration of a state of emergency by Thaksin in 2005 lays out exactly who is responsible - see https://docs.google....dnJ3ag&hl=en_GB

Suthep then goes on to say;

The violence and bloodshed on Rajdamnoen Avenue happened by the men in black, he said.

Just the men in black Suthep, nobody else, no amy personnel? Still insisting that Muramoto was shot by the red shirts or black shirts?

[Oberkommando]

The military would have been ultimately behind the crackdown IMO, and it is they that need to be brought to account, not their lackeys in government at the time.

To suggest Abhisit and co were sitting in a room giving the important decisions would show a very naive view and a complete lack of understanding of how the Thai military operates.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I don't understand why the government from that time is being indicted...they were merely quelling a group of terrorist protesters who openly were threatening to fire bomb Bangkok, derail the skytrain, destroy all manner of properties, and who invaded a hospital with intent to harm! and no, I don't have all the evidence from back then to back up this post, but I certainly did see it in the news, heard it from Arisman and his lot, and saw it played out on the TV.

A couple of things

1 When they get Thaksin back are they going to grill him?

2 Are they saying that the actions of the red shirts were OK?

3 That the government should have ignored them and let them continue to hold down town Bangkok as a hostage burn it down or what ever they felt like doing it was OK to invade hospitals?

Exactly!!!! Thaksin (and the "red shirt" leaders) are MORE responsible than ANYONE ELSE for the deaths as he encouraged them to defy the government purely to serve HIS interests and the "red shirt" leaders should have accepted Abhisits very reasonable offer of an olive branch for peace in exchange for an early election. After first agreeing to this offer they changed their minds and tried to make more capital from the turmoil and in doing so brought the situation to an ugly end with multiple deaths occurring as a consequence!!!!

All the Democrat government were attempting to was bring this unsatisfactory "barricading" of Bangkok to an end and resolve everything by peaceful means but the opposition had other ideas and the rest, as they say, is history!!!.

[Buchholz]

I would like to just quote one sentence from the OP story which is unfortunately always overlooked.

Did someone mentions hooligans at a football match?

Indeed at just about every football match there are a few hooligans!

But does that mean all supporters of that team are to blame?

The teams get fined or banned if they don't do something about their hooligan supporters. The difference here is that the hooligans get rewarded.

And the biggest hooligan owns the team

Thaksin is a rookie and needs to take a chapter from the Suthep play book.

Suthep, in two years in office, more than doubled his net worth from 39 million to 95 million.

Let us know when it reaches into the hundreds of billions, like the "rookie."

or even into the hundreds of millions like many of those in the current Cabinet.

[Lite Beer]

Thai ex-PM reports for questioning over rally crackdown: AFP

BANGKOK, December 9, 2011 (AFP) - Former Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva reported to police on Friday for questioning over a deadly military crackdown he oversaw on mass opposition protests in Bangkok last year.

Abhisit, now opposition leader, smiled but made no comment to reporters as he arrived at the Bangkok Metropolitan Police headquarters, where he was summoned as a witness, according to an AFP reporter.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-12-09

[Jawnie]

The government, any government, has the duty to act reasonably, even when others don't. It is unreasonable for government troops to fire into crowds of protesters even when some of those protesters are attacking them. That's just the way it's supposed to work. There is a way for the government to handle such situations without resorting to unrestrained violence. Hundreds of people shot and killed by government troops is not a reasonable response, even when some of the protesters themselves are shooting.

Unless, of course, you are in favor of government by violent and despotic methods. It is the duty of the government to set the standard of reasonableness in such situations, especially when others aren't. Otherwise, you get the situation Thailand has now, which is: trying to find justification for shooting lots on innocent protesters. Because the government acted unreasonably, it will always be wrong to try to justify its actions because of actions by some of the protesters. It can't be done, not completely...not even close.

Hate to put the "cabash" on your street justice approach to public security/safety. But, you arrest people, the guilty people, for the crimes you mention. You don't fire into crowds of protesters indiscriminately. Especially so if it's government troops doing the shooting. Now do you get it?

What do you do when protesters are shooting back at you ... or lobbing grenades?

I don't think you do get it.

[AleG]

The government, any government, has the duty to act reasonably, even when others don't. It is unreasonable for government troops to fire into crowds of protesters even when some of those protesters are attacking them. That's just the way it's supposed to work. There is a way for the government to handle such situations without resorting to unrestrained violence. Hundreds of people shot and killed by government troops is not a reasonable response, even when some of the protesters themselves are shooting.

Unless, of course, you are in favor of government by violent and despotic methods. It is the duty of the government to set the standard of reasonableness in such situations, especially when others aren't. Otherwise, you get the situation Thailand has now, which is: trying to find justification for shooting lots on innocent protesters. Because the government acted unreasonably, it will always be wrong to try to justify its actions because of actions by some of the protesters. It can't be done, not completely...not even close.

So the army conscripts should just have stood still while being murdered by "peaceful protesters" then? Have you seen the video of the soldiers surrendering to a Red Shirt mob only to have one of them shot for their deference? You know, soldiers are people too.

And where are those "hundreds" killed by government troops anyway?

I'm not in favour of violent and despotic methods, from either governments or protestors; the moment those "protestors" bring in the guns and start killing people they should be stopped.

The army tried non-lethal means until they began to get killed, then and only then the gloves came off. If you want to find a guilty party in the deaths ask yourself who started the violence and escalated it. (Hint, they were wearing red and black shirts)

[NCFC]

Have the government got there timing right on this one? The red shirt protest is old news, now everyone is more concerned with the devestating flooding. Anyone can see that this is being brought up now to be used as a bargaining chip to help bring pressure on the democrats to sign an amnesty agreement that will allow Thaksin to return to Thailand.

It is not for the Democrats to sign an amnesty agreement. And I don't think the gunning down of 90 civilians can be dismissed so lightly as 'old news'

[tukkytuktuk]

Well said AleG, If you were actually here in Thailand when this happened and saw it live on cable T.V I have to add on the red channel, then the Thai army were very patient and tolerated unruley crowds of thousands of people screaming insults at them on load speakers. Marching in their thousands to an army base where Abbhasit was being protected demanding he quit or get out as they put it. The red leaders wanted the army to use force so the government would collaspe due to international condemnation. They marched to the the then PM house, they performed black magic ceromonies at government house, some red shirts even grabbed loaded machine guns off soldiers guarding MP during a house session. So someone had to stop this law and order was at stake. There was the risk of this turning into mass civil unrest. Some people died, no one wants this, but the red shirts just would not stop, turning up the heat every day.