Lone Belgian Gunman Kills Four, Injures Scores

[webfact]

Lone Belgian gunman kills four, injures scores

By Benjamin Bouly-Rames (AFP)

LIEGE, Belgium — A lone gunman armed with grenades opened fire on a square packed with children and Christmas shoppers in the Belgian city of Liege on Tuesday killing three people and injuring scores more.

Officials named the gunman -- who was also killed in circumstances that are not yet clear -- as Nordine Amrani, 33, a known criminal who had been summoned by police that morning but never showed up.

Among the three passers-by killed when Amrani went on his shooting spree near the city's courthouse was a 15-year-old boy who died instantly and a 17-year-old boy and 75-year-old woman who died later in hospital.

Scores of teenagers emerging from end-of-year exams were on the square awaiting buses home when the attack began.

Home affairs minister Joelle Milquet, who broke off European Union talks to dash to Liege, said 123 people had been injured in the attack five of whom were in critical condition in hospital.

The lunchtime attack sent terrified residents running for their lives, fleeing into churches and shops as the gunman fired on the crowded square.

"We heard two huge deafening noises and then lots of explosions, people were running everywhere," a baker named only as Patricia said on RTL-TV.

"We closed the door, turned off the lights and hid behind the counter with the customers."

The country's federal crisis centre said it was neither a terrorist incident nor linked to a pending criminal trial.

"It's very difficult to determine the reasons for the attack, but we're investigating all avenues," the centre's Benoit Ramacker told AFP.

King Albert II and Queen Paola rushed to the scene as did newly named Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo, who said: "The entire country feels the pain."

"It's uncertain yet whether he (Amrani) killed himself or whether his weapons exploded," public prosecutor Daniele Reynders told a news conference.

"He left his home this morning with his backpack and his arms," she said, adding that he had climbed on to the roof of a bakery shop "and fired and then threw three grenades."

Hours later groups of people sat weeping on sidewalks amid the wail of ambulance sirens and the roar of helicopters overhead. There were pools of blood on the streets.

The shooting took place around noon in Saint-Lambert square, home to the courthouse and located near a busy Christmas market in the town of 196,000 people.

Some initial reports said the attack was a foiled bid to rescue a suspect from the courthouse.

Police had raided Amrani's Liege home recently seeking cannabis plants but had found weapons instead. In 2008 he was sentenced to almost five years behind bars for illegal possession of arms and growing cannabis.

He was freed on parole in October 2010.

Reynders said that although the gunman had a record for drugs dealing, arms possession and holding stolen goods, there had never been a sign he was unbalanced in any way.

There was much initial confusion over the shooting as events unfolded, with initial reports of more than one gunman.

Journalist Nicolas Gilenne told AFP he had just left the courthouse where he was covering a trial when the attack began.

"I saw a man wave his arm and throw something at the bus shelter. I heard an explosion. He turned around, picked something else up, pulled the pin. I started to run. He was alone and seemed very much in control.

"He wanted to hurt as many people as possible. I heard four explosions and shots during about 10 seconds."

Residents had earlier told local television that shots were fired across the square by gunmen posted on the rooftop of a bakery and grenades hurled at bus shelters and into the courthouse.

Reports had also said that two to three gunmen armed with grenades were involved.

"The city centre is completely cordoned off. People are sheltering in shops or in buildings. Police are in position," said a town hall employee contacted by AFP.

"Luckily the mayor had postponed the opening of the Christmas market due to bad weather and high winds. Otherwise many more would have died," the employee added.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-12-14

[Scott]

My condolences to the family, friends and the country on this tragic loss of life.

[differentbutsamesame]

"Nordine Amrani" ....... Yeah.. a traditional Belgian name.

[elgato]

"Nordine Amrani" ....... Yeah.. a traditional Belgian name.

What does that mean? Define a traditional and non -traditional name from your country.

Condolences to all that suffered from this tragic event.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed, this isn't about the shooting in Los Angeles last week.

[HAL9000]

An off topic post has been removed, this isn't about the shooting in Los Angeles last week.

Sorry. Bad Memory. I got the two stories mixed up.

[differentbutsamesame]

"Nordine Amrani" ....... Yeah.. a traditional Belgian name.

What does that mean? Define a traditional and non -traditional name from your country.

Condolences to all that suffered from this tragic event.

You know exactly what i mean mr. Politically correct.

Edited December 14, 2011 by differentbutsamesame

[JoJoo]

"Nordine Amrani" ....... Yeah.. a traditional Belgian name.

What does that mean? Define a traditional and non -traditional name from your country.

Condolences to all that suffered from this tragic event.

You know exactly what i mean mr. Politically correct.

Exactly ! I'm Belgian and it's time to start calling a cow a cow !!

Again innocent people die because of some scum that should be behind bars or back in his native country !

[MEL1]

"Nordine Amrani" ....... Yeah.. a traditional Belgian name.

What does that mean? Define a traditional and non -traditional name from your country.

Condolences to all that suffered from this tragic event.

You know exactly what i mean mr. Politically correct.

Exactly ! I'm Belgian and it's time to start calling a cow a cow !!

Again innocent people die because of some scum that should be behind bars or back in his native country !

I understand your anger, and your plight. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

Britain and England could hold the same mistrust for all Muslims, after records are looked at. Fortunately, most Muslims are not regimists and do bring good to wherever they are, even if that is construed as in large numbers. Calling a cow a cow? That is extreme in itself, and totally uncalled for despite your anger. If Britain removed all Muslims then the population of the UK would drop by probably 50%. With it large numbers of jobs and white incomes. This man was obviously deranged, same as the last European Norwegian who went on a spree.

I very much doubt there was any extremist link in this Belgian's actions, and consequences and damage have to be accepted by all when one single individual becomes momentarily insane.

It is unfair, and actually quite racist, to quantify his actions because of his name.

-mel.

[hehehoho]

Nutter. Plain and simple.

Cannot believe his guessed-at-religion made him do it.

[KeyserSoze01]

If Britain removed all Muslims then the population of the UK would drop by probably 50%. With it large numbers of jobs and white incomes. This man was obviously deranged, same as the last European Norwegian who went on a spree.

It is unfair, and actually quite racist, to quantify his actions because of his name.

Do you have a link for your ascertain that 50% of all UK residents are Muslim?

Would ancestral British citizens think it's a bad thing if all non-native Muslim residents were deported?

Why is it racist to identify this person by his ancestral origin and his residence status in Belgium?

How many native Belgians have opened fire and thrown grenades in a public place in the last 50 years, killing many and wounding hundreds?

No, Mel, it's apologetic politically correct namby-pamby left wing moonbats such as yourself are the only ones that don't see the problem for what it is.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Let's stick to the current situation and the country of Belgium.

[fraksken]

My condolences to the victims and the family there of.

As a native Belgian: The person holds a belgian ID and passport. I don't care where he was born, but he IS belgian.

I'm ashamed by the comments of JoJoo who is so proud to be belgian.

Thanks Mel1 and Hehehoho.

[MrMuddle]

According to the BBC, when the police searched the gunmans house they found a dead cleaning lady, who the gunman shot before he went on the rampage.

Very sad days events in Liege, my condolences to all concerned.

[jeanelie]

[

I understand your anger, and your plight. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

Britain and England could hold the same mistrust for all Muslims, after records are looked at. Fortunately, most Muslims are not regimists and do bring good to wherever they are, even if that is construed as in large numbers. Calling a cow a cow? That is extreme in itself, and totally uncalled for despite your anger. If Britain removed all Muslims then the population of the UK would drop by probably 50%. With it large numbers of jobs and white incomes. This man was obviously deranged, same as the last European Norwegian who went on a spree.

I very much doubt there was any extremist link in this Belgian's actions, and consequences and damage have to be accepted by all when one single individual becomes momentarily insane.

It is unfair, and actually quite racist, to quantify his actions because of his name.

-mel.

5 people get killed, 123 get injured and Miss Mel is concerned about political correctness. Shame on you to take profit out of this situation. You are one of those who try on every possible moment to make people mouth death. You are a racist against the freedom of speech. You do not even care for a situation like this. Your mouth only opens to protect muslims (you surely have a reason for that). The truth is of no importance for you and your political correctness. Shame on people who close other peoples mouth. The truth is that all countries with muslim tolerance today have problems to conserve their former level of democratic freedom. People like you miss Mel are also responsible for this loss.

Concerning your statements that most muslims bring good I can assure you that most of Europe mistrusts muslims and this has nothing to do with racism. Why? Because of the way the muslim majority presents itself to it's guest country.

Whether it's fair to point out that the bastard was an etnic Moroccan I leave to the moderators. One thing is clear left wing Europe has given away European identity very cheap to a bunch of social security sucking dangerous,criminal nitwits.

If that is racism, well so is reality.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Scott
formatting

[MrMuddle]

Rather than get involved in arguments about the race or religion of the perpetrator, (I've read several reports, none of which state race or religion as a factor in this gunmans actions), perhaps it would be better to stick to simple condolences on here, out of respect for those who died or have been injured.

[peergin]

He was convicted to 58 months (i.e. 4 years + 10 months) and was released after 2 years. How the heck is that possible? Who is responsible for this blunder? If this blunder had not happened, all of those people would still be alive today and the many, many wounderd wound be healthy instead.

If someone commits crimes that are serious enough to draw a 58-month sentence, then he should servce those 58 months!

My heart goes out to the relatives and friends.

[jeanelie]

He was convicted to 58 months (i.e. 4 years + 10 months) and was released after 2 years. How the heck is that possible? Who is responsible for this blunder? If this blunder had not happened, all of those people would still be alive today and the many, many wounded wound be healthy instead.

If someone commits crimes that are serious enough to draw a 58-month sentence, then he should service those 58 months!

My heart goes out to the relatives and friends.

In 2008 he got sentenced to 4 years and 10 months for rape, running a gigantic drug lab and big scale weapon possesion. Ridiculous sentence.

Why he got free so early. Since the big North-African migration to Europe the jails in Belgium are overfull (about 50% muslims). Lack of space gives lower penalties and gets them released early. A penalty lower then 3 years you don't even get jailed. To get 3 years you have to have done an aweful lot of criminal facts.

Sad for his actual victims. One mother had her 1,5 year old child dying in her arms.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Scott
formatting

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. This situation concerns Belgium, not the UK or the US.

[Steely Dan]

Hmm, Lets see Liege, Christmas market, guns, hand grenades. Three words sprung to mind and the third one was peace. The BBC and CNN coverage seems to have overlooked the location of this tragic event when it came to speculation of motive, though had a Christian fundamentalist nutcase killed members of any other religion during an event associated with their religion I'm sure the self-flagellation from the liberal bed wetters would have been something to behold.

P.S To our Belgian friend, I lived there for three years and so you have my deepest sympathies and I agree with calling a spade a spade as we British say.

[Steely Dan]

What do we have here a mainstream newspaper printing facts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1gasNhFb8

Can't quite make out the writing on the rocket launcher.

[MrMuddle]

More "facts", from the same article

"Abdelhadi Amrani, another lawyer who worked for the killer but is not related, said he had grown up in foster homes after being orphaned as a child."

"Commenting on Amrani’s background, Ms Amrani said: ‘He did not feel at all Moroccan. He did not speak a word of Arabic, and was not Muslim. What he said is that he felt like a Belgian."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1ghOumpLS

Note to Mods, sorry to use two quotes, I thought it was necessary to explain why both the lawyer, and the gunman have the same surname.

[Steely Dan]

More "facts", from the same article

"Abdelhadi Amrani, another lawyer who worked for the killer but is not related, said he had grown up in foster homes after being orphaned as a child."

"Commenting on Amrani’s background, Ms Amrani said: ‘He did not feel at all Moroccan. He did not speak a word of Arabic, and was not Muslim. What he said is that he felt like a Belgian."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1ghOumpLS

Note to Mods, sorry to use two quotes, I thought it was necessary to explain why both the lawyer, and the gunman have the same surname.

I guess he couldn't read the writing on the rocket launcher then. If you take the lawyer at his word then his client had a strange way of identifying with the Belgian culture, if that's what he identified himself as.

[jeanelie]

More "facts", from the same article

"Abdelhadi Amrani, another lawyer who worked for the killer but is not related, said he had grown up in foster homes after being orphaned as a child."

"Commenting on Amrani's background, Ms Amrani said: 'He did not feel at all Moroccan. He did not speak a word of Arabic, and was not Muslim. What he said is that he felt like a Belgian."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1ghOumpLS

Note to Mods, sorry to use two quotes, I thought it was necessary to explain why both the lawyer, and the gunman have the same surname.

I guess he couldn't read the writing on the rocket launcher then. If you take the lawyer at his word then his client had a strange way of identifying with the Belgian culture, if that's what he identified himself as.

If you believe his lawyer and his family, he was the sunray that lightened up their house.

[Steely Dan]

If you believe his lawyer and his family, he was the sunray that lightened up their house.

Actually we are being expected to believe quite a lot, for example.

i/ The killer was considered 'stable' and not a risk to society despite his 2003 rape conviction and possession of thousands of cannabis plants as well as a crimesheet as long as your arm.

ii/ The incident had nothing to do with an inflammatory speech given by a Sharia4Belgium spokesman two days prior.

iii/ The choice of a Christmas market to attack was coincidental and had no religious significance and the fact Islamic extremists often time attacks to coincide with the religious festivals of other religions is just circumstantial.

iv/ The fact that at the six second mark on the video link a word sounding very much like Allah is audible followed by a bystander turning round as if to see where the voice came from is also inconclusive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JJM8-B4Q1nU

[ajarnmark]

RIP for those who died and I wish injured will get well soon...

How come the act of one person makes more than 1.5 billion people responsible for that? Why no one is mentioning him as Moroccan rather than a Muslim?

As for the writing on rocket launcher, it does not look like Arabic at all...

If Belgian prisons are full with having less than 9,000 inmates, why they cant make more prisons?

[MrMuddle]

More "facts", from the same article

"Abdelhadi Amrani, another lawyer who worked for the killer but is not related, said he had grown up in foster homes after being orphaned as a child."

"Commenting on Amrani's background, Ms Amrani said: 'He did not feel at all Moroccan. He did not speak a word of Arabic, and was not Muslim. What he said is that he felt like a Belgian."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1ghOumpLS

Note to Mods, sorry to use two quotes, I thought it was necessary to explain why both the lawyer, and the gunman have the same surname.

I guess he couldn't read the writing on the rocket launcher then. If you take the lawyer at his word then his client had a strange way of identifying with the Belgian culture, if that's what he identified himself as.

If you believe his lawyer and his family, he was the sunray that lightened up their house.

His family ? Perhaps in your prejudice you didn't see this :

Abdelhadi Amrani, another lawyer who worked for the killer but is not related, said he had grown up in foster homes after being orphaned as a child.

‘I remember a man deeply marked by the loss of his parents,’ said Ms Amrani. ‘He lost his father and mother very early.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Nordine-Amrani-Inside-home-crazed-Liege-killer-launched-Belgium-grenade-attack.html#ixzz1hUkgadKI

Since the events that caused this extremely tragic story to come into the news, there is still no evidence, (except in the minds of the heavily prejudiced), that this was anything to do with religion, or an act of terrorism. In fact, if we look at the background to the tragedy, the perpetrator, was an out & out criminal, who had previous convictions for rape, possession of a large array of weapons, drug dealing, and was being investigated for sexual assault. But NONE for anything to do with terrorism. It is also obvious that this man should not have been released early from a previous sentence, and that he should have been under supervision because of his mental health, whether he was in prison or not. Please stop trying to turn this tragic event into yet another anti-Islamic tirade, let the victims of this tragedy rest in peace.

[transam]

I understand your anger, and your plight. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

Britain and England could hold the same mistrust for all Muslims, after records are looked at. Fortunately, most Muslims are not regimists and do bring good to wherever they are, even if that is construed as in large numbers. Calling a cow a cow? That is extreme in itself, and totally uncalled for despite your anger. If Britain removed all Muslims then the population of the UK would drop by probably 50%. With it large numbers of jobs and white incomes. This man was obviously deranged, same as the last European Norwegian who went on a spree.

I very much doubt there was any extremist link in this Belgian's actions, and consequences and damage have to be accepted by all when one single individual becomes momentarily insane.

It is unfair, and actually quite racist, to quantify his actions because of his name.

-mel.

5 people get killed, 123 get injured and Miss Mel is concerned about political correctness. Shame on you to take profit out of this situation. You are one of those who try on every possible moment to make people mouth death. You are a racist against the freedom of speech. You do not even care for a situation like this. Your mouth only opens to protect muslims (you surely have a reason for that). The truth is of no importance for you and your political correctness. Shame on people who close other peoples mouth. The truth is that all countries with muslim tolerance today have problems to conserve their former level of democratic freedom. People like you miss Mel are also responsible for this loss.

Concerning your statements that most muslims bring good I can assure you that most of Europe mistrusts muslims and this has nothing to do with racism. Why? Because of the way the muslim majority presents itself to it's guest country.

Whether it's fair to point out that the bastard was an ethnic Moroccan I leave to the moderators. One thing is clear left wing Europe has given away European identity very cheap to a bunch of social security sucking dangerous,criminal nitwits.

If that is racism, well so is reality.

+1

[Steely Dan]

@MrMuddle, I laid down the points which were consistent with the attack being a terrorist one, your points against this come from his namesake's testimony, which may well be true, even though killing civilians at a Christmas market was prone to give another impression. His lawyer also said he wasn't Muslim, which as with most things reported is ambiguous, was he Christian or just a non-practicing Muslim in the same way as Breivik was a non-practicing Christian?

My main beef as with another recent thread is the PC press who make sure the truth is subsidiary to their opinion, a stance which in the long run does nobody any favours. Merry X-Mas by the way.

[Credo]

I think this man is best described by calling him a mass murderer. He really doesn't seem to fit any definition of a terrorist easily. There doesn't seem to be any strong ideology that drove him to this act. There does not fall into the category of a visionary killer, or a serial killer or a hedonistic killer.

This type of behavior is seen all to often in the US.