Many Injured As Train Hits 9 Cars At Bangkok's Asoke Rail Crossing

[WildChilli]

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

[friendphil]

I better no comment on that ...I feel sorry for the train driver as obviously the car drivers are to be blame ...one more time .... I rarely seen people stopping at red lights anyway ..... and I am not surprise at all , the sellfishness of Thai drivers is very well know ..

Sorry - you are not right there. This situation happens on a daily basis - the train driver knew that - or should have known that and therefore should have been prepared to stop.

however he is obviously not solely to blame.

blame in an incident like this NEVER rests on one party alone - yet time and again posters on TV have this urge to lay blame solely on one person - this is as stupid as it is unhelpful.

The fact is that rail crossings throughout Thailand are mismanaged; the railway authorities know this but don't see any reason to do anything about it.

As for the drivers - well it seems apparently daft, but they do not control the traffic ahead, and many will have seen the train one to a halt before. When planning for safety one has to assume the "public" are complete fools - the idea is to create a situation where an "accident" can't happen - there should be absolutely no way that a car - however daft the driver - could get onto a crossing - yet of course in Thailand this is NEVER the case.

One could argue that anyone with common sense would not cross the line until there was space on the other side, but you just have to read the posts on TV to see that stupidity is not the preserve of those attempting to cross the line on this fateful occasion.

Well said.

[mijan24]

Maybe there should be a guy with a red flag walking in front of every train?

Somebody with or without the authority remove this post immediately this is not a request it's an order -Otherwise Some <deleted> in a position of (?) will read it and before you can say "TiT" it will be IMPLEMENTED.

Some of you city folk may scoff but the train trip from Khon Kaen to Nong Khai already takes 4 hours +++some (175kms) this would turn it into an overnight with rest stops oh no. The trip from Khon Kaen South would become the 8th Wonder of Thailand.

Ban or Promote (TiT) this poster for airing such an idea please :jap:

Evilbaz you might end up wellknown throughout Thailand for suggesting such an idea and then blamed and lambasted for instigating such an idea. 555 It will be farewell to Evilbaz and Welcome to the Evilflagman""

Edited December 15, 2011 by metisdead
Bold font removed, there is no need to post using bold font.

[ratcatcher]

This accident is 100% the error of the train company.

Since when do vehicles have right-of-way on railroad tracks?

I originally posted #4 on this thread much earlier. I agree wholeheartedly with those posters that say that stopping on the tracks is stupid etc, but most people here are in a hurry, don't have much concept of risk and safety etc , so they do silly things.

I am not sure what the police were doing in that area at that time? (No comment)

However, as an ex-railroader from Canada, I know that certain areas rules require the engineer (driver) to operate at "reduced speed', which means being able to stop in half the range of vision of 'equipment' (in this case, vehicles on the crossing).

He also had the option of putting the train in 'emergency" by "dynamiting or plugging" the brakes. If it was a freight train , it would normally have been traveling slowly in this area anyway.

A passenger train heading for Hua Lampong from the Chachoengsao Junction would perhaps have been traveling a bit faster.

However I am not familiar with what rules apply here, I assume there are rules, but we all know what that means.

Hopefully something will be done to improve the safety at that extremely congested crossing. The same applies to the crossing

at Ratchadamri/Sri Ayuttaya.

[ginjag]

The drivers obviously did not heed the signal (audible or visible). I had been a passenger on the commuter train before the BTS was built, and remember hearing the railroad crossing signal but drivers nearly always raced to cross the track, particularly the motorcyclists.

They were probably already stopped on the tracks when the signals started and the traffic didn't move after that.

Get some bloody bridges built, or short tunnels dug,,,, no men with flags to pay no gates, no signals no barriers, no accidents, no electric bills, no deaths, no insurance coverage-no police-then the train driver can be on facebook. if he wants to use.,,,,,,,,,,,,, the biggest laugh about these crossings , is the name LEVEL :shock1:

[xthAi76s]

This is what most of you are saying you do, and I am saying boll*cks, no one does this.

If the flow of traffic is stopped by a red light (traffic, not rail) further down the road, then there is a chance you will end up over the tracks as you will have nowhere to go; you sure ain't gonna back out of it!

Be honest with yourselves..........

And I agree. I don't do this either. I follow the car in front of me unless traffic lights stop me. I do my best to stop at a box junction, but with so many other things going on around me in the traffic I sometimes get caught out and block the odd box junction here or there (although lately I feel I have been the one to trigger drivers in the next lane to follow suit and stop for a box junction thus easing traffic at the potential onset of localized gridlock)....

This level crossing incident is preventable. But any measure taken to prevent further occurrence will come at the cost of the convenience of many and create significant gridlock else where. This is perhaps a situation where there is no ideal system, just the best of a handful of poor systems.

Someone will ask for it, but I'm not going to provide proof as I can't be bothered to look for it (I'm about to head out): BUT, it has been my understanding for many years now that the country with the highest incidence of level crossing incidents is the USA, so lets stop trying to turn this into a 'Thai' issue, its not, its simply an issue of poor road design and given the monies involved with having to redesign a road and rail system around an inner city level crossing versus the 1 in x years accident it seems hardly worth it when far more significant impact could be made in other areas of traffic safety.

I don't mind hitting my country when it's well-deserved. That's one of the glaring differences between Thais and Americans. Nobody is harder on American than are Americans.

Incidence - Noun - The occurrence, rate, or frequency of a disease, crime or something else undesirable

highest incidence

means not so much by itself, am I right?

It has been my understanding that:

1. The US was kinda sorta at the forefront for very heavy, cross-country rail services in what is a pretty vast country

2. The US has more rail track and rail volume than any other country on Earth

3. The US having been a very rich country and having invented the automobile has had more drivers than any other country on Earth

4. The US has had more developed cities/towns with more rail crossings for longer than most countries where railroads have been used heavily

A quote taken from the linked document --

"According to World Bank data, theU.S. freight railroad industry leads the world(often by large margins) or is near the topamong all nations in terms of miles of track,traffic volume, productivity, affordability,and other measures."

Ok, so aside from the fact that the statement RE the US is irrelevant, your notion that this is not

a "Thai" issue

too is incorrect. It's in Thailand; it's a Thai issue. It may not be unique to Thailand, but I'll tell you what ... The Thai system's inability, at worst, and painful slugishness, at best, to force necessary change to protect average people whether on roads or elsewhere is something that is uniquely Thai.

Hope you had a nice time out.

Edit Reason: attached document nobody will likely read

Overview.pdf

Edited December 15, 2011 by ThailandMan

[wxyz]

when in doubt, blame the farangs

[xthAi76s]

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

This argument is so, so very old.

It goes like this ...

If you do truly respect Thailand and Thai people, you should not say anything negative about them whether or not appropriate to do so.

Another one goes like this ...

If you do have anything negative to say about Thailand, I am at a loss as to why you remain in Thailand, since I assume that you have a choice, as your negative comment(s) must prove that you are unhappy here, and because I will further assume that being happy is the only goal that anyone has in life.

It's a weak line of thought, my friend. It's almost akin to saying something like this ...

If you love and respect your child, you won't discipline him and will instead allow him to do what he wants to do as it's his style. It's his ... 'unique child-ness".

Silly, do you agree?

Regards,

[finnomick1]

We need to stop assuming that things here are the same as they are in the West. In the UK if you hear the sirens/bells telling you a train is coming, you get the HELL away from the tracks, as the trains usually go past at over 60mph (used to be 90mph, and at smaller crossings in the middle of nowhere they would not slow down at all and go past at 125mph), and they ain't stopping! Also, the trains tend not to have crossings at busy traffic junctions, for safety reasons.

However, returning to Thailand, it is very common at a busy junction with a railway crossing over it, for traffic to get stuck on the tracks - and they don't get much busier than the junction at Asok/Phetchaburi, where there are cars stopped on the tracks almost constantly during busy hours.

The train is supposed to stop and wait as the cars get out of the way (it can hardly go around the cars - the only control its driver has, is over its speed). That's what the guy with the torch and red flag does at the junction - tells the driver of the train to stop or go.

In this case the guy with the flag was waving frantically telling the train to stop - and people here are blaming the cars?

I was at the junction as they were still clearing the line last night, about an hour after the incident. More telling to me was that the song-taew driver I spoke to said that the train driver was probably drunk. If that were the case, would people here still blame the cars' drivers?

Yes, the car drivers are at fault, no question, 100%, definately. They should not stop their vehicle on a railway crossing, in fact, if the traffic ahead is stationary you should stop your vehicle before the crossing gates ( if they haven't been taken to the scrap yard for re-cycling that is ). Of course, this IS Thailand, and to leave a gap of more than a cigarette paper would let some other motoring moron drive down the outside and squeeze in at the last possible second -- hence they will park on a railway crossing. I say lucky for them the train driver had started to slow down thereby avoiding a much more severe crash and the inevitable loss of life. Anyone who stops a vehicle on a railway crossing has already had a full frontal labotomy...

[templedog]

Point taken.....BUT....as someone posted earlier....YOU DO NOT CROSS UNLESS YOUR EXIT IS CLEAR ON THE OTHER SIDE. If you live in Thailand, you should already know this as a driver. A driver with a brain, that is.

We need to stop assuming that things here are the same as they are in the West. In the UK if you hear the sirens/bells telling you a train is coming, you get the HELL away from the tracks, as the trains usually go past at over 60mph (used to be 90mph, and at smaller crossings in the middle of nowhere they would not slow down at all and go past at 125mph), and they ain't stopping! Also, the trains tend not to have crossings at busy traffic junctions, for safety reasons.

However, returning to Thailand, it is very common at a busy junction with a railway crossing over it, for traffic to get stuck on the tracks - and they don't get much busier than the junction at Asok/Phetchaburi, where there are cars stopped on the tracks almost constantly during busy hours.

The train is supposed to stop and wait as the cars get out of the way (it can hardly go around the cars - the only control its driver has, is over its speed). That's what the guy with the torch and red flag does at the junction - tells the driver of the train to stop or go.

In this case the guy with the flag was waving frantically telling the train to stop - and people here are blaming the cars?

I was at the junction as they were still clearing the line last night, about an hour after the incident. More telling to me was that the song-taew driver I spoke to said that the train driver was probably drunk. If that were the case, would people here still blame the cars' drivers?

[KhunRon]

I was very surprised NOT to read the usual last line in an accident report, "The driver fled the scene."

[templedog]

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

This argument is so, so very old.

It goes like this ...

If you do truly respect Thailand and Thai people, you should not say anything negative about them whether or not appropriate to do so.

Another one goes like this ...

If you do have anything negative to say about Thailand, I am at a loss as to why you remain in Thailand, since I assume that you have a choice, as your negative comment(s) must prove that you are unhappy here, and because I will further assume that being happy is the only goal that anyone has in life.

It's a weak line of thought, my friend. It's almost akin to saying something like this ...

If you love and respect your child, you won't discipline him and will instead allow him to do what he wants to do as it's his style. It's his ... 'unique child-ness".

Silly, do you agree?

Regards,

CRUNCH!!! Rings like a bell!!!

[wxyz]

shades of the Hooterville Cannonball

Elizabeth Josephine 'Betty Jo' Bradley Elliott: "As far as I'm concerned, Billie Jo can have the boys. I'm in love with the Hooterville Cannonball!"

Petticoat Junction (TV Series 1963–1970)

Edited December 15, 2011 by wxyz

[anterian]

Just out of curiosity, do people just sit in their cars and watch the train coming, or do they get out and run like hell?

[dantilley]

Just out of curiosity, do people just sit in their cars and watch the train coming, or do they get out and run like hell?

Good question! Probably the latter, otherwise I'm sure there would have been at least a few fatalities...

[Credo]

I would guess, and it's only a guess, that people expected the train to stop. It was probably easily visible to only a few cars. The impact, even at a slow speed, would push the cars around causing them to hit other vehicles which were not on the tracks.

Very sad. I hope the people make a full recovery.

[balo]

Dont blame the Thai drivers , they are used to this traffic and most of them are very good drivers .

I am always impressed by how few accidents we see in Bangkok , when you think about the number of cars .

[TheWalkingMan]

The first time I came to Thailand, maybe 2000(?), I took the overnight train to Chiang Mai and we hit a pick-up truck. Very surreal experience with many people taking pictures of the dead bodies.

[Reasonableman]

1323947943[/url]' post='4914361']

1323945737[/url]' post='4914255']

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

This argument is so, so very old.

It goes like this ...

If you do truly respect Thailand and Thai people, you should not say anything negative about them whether or not appropriate to do so.

Another one goes like this ...

If you do have anything negative to say about Thailand, I am at a loss as to why you remain in Thailand, since I assume that you have a choice, as your negative comment(s) must prove that you are unhappy here, and because I will further assume that being happy is the only goal that anyone has in life.

It's a weak line of thought, my friend. It's almost akin to saying something like this ...

If you love and respect your child, you won't discipline him and will instead allow him to do what he wants to do as it's his style. It's his ... 'unique child-ness".

Silly, do you agree?

Regards,

Another thing that's silly is expecting a condescending paternalistic carping approach to get any positive sort of response.

[xthAi76s]

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

This argument is so, so very old.

It goes like this ...

If you do truly respect Thailand and Thai people, you should not say anything negative about them whether or not appropriate to do so.

Another one goes like this ...

If you do have anything negative to say about Thailand, I am at a loss as to why you remain in Thailand, since I assume that you have a choice, as your negative comment(s) must prove that you are unhappy here, and because I will further assume that being happy is the only goal that anyone has in life.

It's a weak line of thought, my friend. It's almost akin to saying something like this ...

If you love and respect your child, you won't discipline him and will instead allow him to do what he wants to do as it's his style. It's his ... 'unique child-ness".

Silly, do you agree?

Regards,

Another thing that's silly is expecting a condescending paternalistic carping approach to get any positive sort of response.

Agreed; it certainly is. Good thing I had no such expectations, then. But lo! If I look carefully, I nevertheless seem to have given someone some enjoyment from my comment.

EDIT: not every lazy line of thinking deserves a dignified response.

Edited December 15, 2011 by ThailandMan

[madjbs]

I'm guessing that at least 75% of the speculators on this thread have never driven across this crossing, most probably don't even know where it is. Pretty obvious to anyone who has that the blame lies with the train driver, signals and flag man.

[trainman34014]

what? no farang in any of those cars to BLAME it on? or on the train? or maybe even a farang pedestrian?

Thai Police have put out an APB to identify and apprehend a Farang seen about a k away from the crossing !

[Cheops]

I don't know why anyone bothers to comment on a situation that we all know is not going to change. Just don't drive in thailand (and many other places in the world) if you like living. They are not going to change so either accept it, or get out of the way.

Yeah right, and take a taxi? I rather have some control when moving from place A to B! There are some good taxi drivers out there, but about 95% should not be allowed to drive a taxi! Same goes for the bus by the way, but mostly you are a bit safer in the bus, but I have seen car-fights between busses with other vehicles for which you will definitely get your ass in jail in my country! Here most busdrivers drive like they need to win a race. Not to mention they often let people in/out from the 2nd lane next to the pavement.

Bottomline is that driving myself (with my family of wife and 2 kids) is still the safest option in Bangkok!

[Cheops]

Sad to see how many people turning this in to a blame game and a look down on Thai people and their driving skills

I'm wondering why so many of you are still in thailand

As it more offen than not here looks like no one have any respect for Thailand or its people

Though most people here

Must have a connection to Thailand by marriage kids or of choice in where you live

People have been injured and this is the way you lot talk about them

Santa will be very disappointed

I'm not blaming anyone in this accident, since I can't judge without enough information.

But, if you are driving in Thailand and especially in BKK you should have noticed the driving skills of Thai people, well the lack off that is.

Yes, I like Thailand and I'm indeed also connected to Thailand, since my wife is Thai and so are our 2 kids together.

And I will say the same thing about my Thai wife: although she has a drivers-license she can't drive properly! Nor park a car!

This is just a fact WildChilli, nothing more. It's not looking down on Thai people, they simply can't drive properly.

[thanchart]

"Police said due to heavy traffic congestion in the area, cars are often stuck on the rail crossing during the red light."

Tells you something - admit: we knew for long - about the police....

Cars DON'T get stuck on the rail crossing during "due to heavy traffic congestion" .but due to a total lack of brains and/or manners.

Call it unrivalled selfishness, if you will.

Somnamna indeed.

agreed -

its not the fault of the train driver who is probably distressed - its the car drivers and the Police

I second that, The train driver should never have to apply brakes in the 1st place !!! Let's say it like it is. The police did not enforce the rule as they should.

[lockman]

If the police simply fined each and every driver 3-500B that entered the crossing improperly including motorbikes; it would soon cause a behavior change IF they did it constantly.

[madjbs]

I wonder why they even bother to have train signals all over the world on every rail network if the drivers should "never have to apply their brakes"

[richard_smith237]

And I agree. I don't do this either. I follow the car in front of me unless traffic lights stop me. I do my best to stop at a box junction, but with so many other things going on around me in the traffic I sometimes get caught out and block the odd box junction here or there (although lately I feel I have been the one to trigger drivers in the next lane to follow suit and stop for a box junction thus easing traffic at the potential onset of localized gridlock)....

This level crossing incident is preventable. But any measure taken to prevent further occurrence will come at the cost of the convenience of many and create significant gridlock else where. This is perhaps a situation where there is no ideal system, just the best of a handful of poor systems.

Someone will ask for it, but I'm not going to provide proof as I can't be bothered to look for it (I'm about to head out): BUT, it has been my understanding for many years now that the country with the highest incidence of level crossing incidents is the USA, so lets stop trying to turn this into a 'Thai' issue, its not, its simply an issue of poor road design and given the monies involved with having to redesign a road and rail system around an inner city level crossing versus the 1 in x years accident it seems hardly worth it when far more significant impact could be made in other areas of traffic safety.

I don't mind hitting my country when it's well-deserved. That's one of the glaring differences between Thais and Americans. Nobody is harder on American than are Americans.

Incidence - Noun - The occurrence, rate, or frequency of a disease, crime or something else undesirable

highest incidence

means not so much by itself, am I right?

It has been my understanding that:

1. The US was kinda sorta at the forefront for very heavy, cross-country rail services in what is a pretty vast country

2. The US has more rail track and rail volume than any other country on Earth

3. The US having been a very rich country and having invented the automobile has had more drivers than any other country on Earth

4. The US has had more developed cities/towns with more rail crossings for longer than most countries where railroads have been used heavily

A quote taken from the linked document --

"According to World Bank data, theU.S. freight railroad industry leads the world(often by large margins) or is near the topamong all nations in terms of miles of track,traffic volume, productivity, affordability,and other measures."

Ok, so aside from the fact that the statement RE the US is irrelevant, your notion that this is not

a "Thai" issue

too is incorrect. It's in Thailand; it's a Thai issue. It may not be unique to Thailand, but I'll tell you what ... The Thai system's inability, at worst, and painful slugishness, at best, to force necessary change to protect average people whether on roads or elsewhere is something that is uniquely Thai.

Hope you had a nice time out.

Edit Reason: attached document nobody will likely read

Had I been an English teacher I might not have had enough time to write my response while waiting for the ski lifts to open. And thank you, Yes, Both my wife and I had a wonderful day covering kilometers of fresh powder while you were correcting my jet-lagged, rushed and careless English. The mistakes I made take nothing away from the point I made.

Occurrences of such an event are perhaps equal to or more common in the US than they are in Thailand. I live in Thailand, but I hear of incidents such as this more often in the states. Perhaps its because in the states people are concentrating too hard on correcting each others English instead of looking out of the big bad choo-choo which could mow them down when crossing that bumpy bit of road.

Edited December 15, 2011 by richard_smith237

[Puccini]

If the accident happened during evening hours...

That's the most interesting part of the story. The readers should not be left to guess. "What, where, when" is the the first thing an apprentice journalist learns, but perhaps not in Thailand. As you said: "T.I.T."

[richard_smith237]

I was very surprised NOT to read the usual last line in an accident report, "The driver fled the scene."

In the Thai internet news ('manager') its reported that the train driver did flee the scene !