Many Injured As Train Hits 9 Cars At Bangkok's Asoke Rail Crossing

[hansnl]

We need to stop assuming that things here are the same as they are in the West. In the UK if you hear the sirens/bells telling you a train is coming, you get the HELL away from the tracks, as the trains usually go past at over 60mph (used to be 90mph, and at smaller crossings in the middle of nowhere they would not slow down at all and go past at 125mph), and they ain't stopping! Also, the trains tend not to have crossings at busy traffic junctions, for safety reasons.

However, returning to Thailand, it is very common at a busy junction with a railway crossing over it, for traffic to get stuck on the tracks - and they don't get much busier than the junction at Asok/Phetchaburi, where there are cars stopped on the tracks almost constantly during busy hours.

The train is supposed to stop and wait as the cars get out of the way (it can hardly go around the cars - the only control its driver has, is over its speed). That's what the guy with the torch and red flag does at the junction - tells the driver of the train to stop or go.

In this case the guy with the flag was waving frantically telling the train to stop - and people here are blaming the cars?

I was at the junction as they were still clearing the line last night, about an hour after the incident. More telling to me was that the song-taew driver I spoke to said that the train driver was probably drunk. If that were the case, would people here still blame the cars' drivers?

It is quite obvious you have no idea what trains are

First of all, each wagon, or car, weighs around 50,000 kg, so a 3-car unit weighs 150,000 kg, or the equivalent of 100 cars

All the weight of one car is leaning on 8 x 5 cm, being the contact the wheels of steel have on the rails, also of steel

A train driving at 60 km per hour needs around 600 meter to come to a standstill.

However, rails tend to get slippery in towns because of smog, rain, fatty substances, whatever

Bringing a train to a stop when the rails are not 100% dry just means that the braking distance can double, and when the wheels start slipping on the rails, there is the end.

No sir, the car drivers are at fault, because most drivers in Thailand have the idea that where I am with my car, there can not be anything else.

If you stand still on tracks, or better said don't take care to remain free of the crossing, it is your own stupid fault.

Not the police, not the signalman, and definitely not the driver of the train.

For your information, driving a train is not that difficult, but being a good train driver is VERY difficult

Driving a car, any idiot thinks he can do that, but a good driver takes care that when he has to stop he must most certainly not stop on railway tracks.

And the songtaew driver blaming the train driver of drunkenness?

Of course, Thai always blame someone else, even when it is quite obvious they themselves are to blame.

And even in Thailand, drunk on duty on a train, there is the jail for you.

Edited December 15, 2011 by hansnl

[FM505]

I don't think the train driver should justify his misjudged braking distance.

The selfish drivers trying to inch their way home and ignoring rules of the road are to blame.

The continual absence of enforcement is to blame....

Edited December 15, 2011 by metisdead

[elcent]

I think another problem is when someone stops, a few idiots from behind would pass and block the rails.

They have to make funnels at the rail crossings. The only way to avoid things like this to happen. Too many lanes is like asking for troubles ...

[Basil B]

Suppose the real answer has to be what we in UK call the yellow box and barriers.

1. you do not enter the yellow box unless your exit is clear.

2. there must be barriers or gates down/shut, before the signals for the train are set to green.

3. 1 or 2K fine for drivers who stop on the yellow box, properly enforced.

As said before in the UK trains go much faster, but there much better and failsafe system in force, (yet we still get some idiots wiped out who break the rules or break down in the crossing).

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/xings1/xings1.html

[thaihome]

It is quite obvious you have no idea what trains are

First of all, each wagon, or car, weighs around 50,000 kg, so a 3-car unit weighs 150,000 kg, or the equivalent of 100 cars

All the weight of one car is leaning on 8 x 5 cm, being the contact the wheels of steel have on the rails, also of steel

A train driving at 60 km per hour needs around 600 meter to come to a standstill.

However, rails tend to get slippery in towns because of smog, rain, fatty substances, whatever

Bringing a train to a stop when the rails are not 100% dry just means that the braking distance can double, and when the wheels start slipping on the rails, there is the end.

No sir, the car drivers are at fault, because most drivers in Thailand have the idea that where I am with my car, there can not be anything else.

If you stand still on tracks, or better said don't take care to remain free of the crossing, it is your own stupid fault.

Not the police, not the signalman, and definitely not the driver of the train.

For your information, driving a train is not that difficult, but being a good train driver is VERY difficult

Driving a car, any idiot thinks he can do that, but a good driver takes care that when he has to stop he must most certainly not stop on railway tracks.

And the songtaew driver blaming the train driver of drunkenness?

Of course, Thai always blame someone else, even when it is quite obvious they themselves are to blame.

And even in Thailand, drunk on duty on a train, there is the jail for you.

It is quite obvious you have no idea about that crossing and you’re talking about a train going 60km per hour is totally irrelevant to this accident.

The trains at that crossing approach at walking speed and are expected to be able to stop if the intersection does not clear in time. The fact that the train did stop just a hundred or so meters past the crossing shows how slow it was going when it struck the cars.

TH

[chrisinth]

I don't think the train driver should justify his misjudged braking distance.

The selfish drivers trying to inch their way home and ignoring rules of the road are to blame.

I agree with you. But drivers in this country are not only selfish, they are also largely ignorant of traffic rules. That ignorance not only significantly contributes to congestion, but it also is the cause of many avoidable accidents such as this one.

In civilised countries young drivers are taught during long (and expensive!) hours of compulsory traffic rule theory classes that it is against the law to drive onto a railway crossing if 1) traffic ahead has come to a standstill, 2) it can be gleaned that otherwise one would come to a stand on the tracks and 3) when the crossing warning lights go on, the railway employee waves a red flag or the barriers are descending.

Likewise, one never drives onto a road intersection when 1) trafic ahead is already partly blocking that intersection, 2) traffic lights have changed from red to yellow and one can reasonably expect to get stuck on the intersection.

These rules have been set up for a reason, and as far as I know the very same traffic laws also do exist in Thailand. Not that anyone would enforce them... or heed them.

As a point of interest, how many farangs reading this thread stop the flow of traffic until the exit is clear (on the other side of the tracks) before crossing rail lines? You need to answer this truthfully to understand that you just don't do it!

If the red lights are flashing that the a train is coming and I see that I will not be able to continue due to a red light or other issue: Yes, for sure I will not wait on the tracks, but before the crossing rail lines!

Sorry for the delay, had to do some work. That wasn't what I meant; of course people (Farangs in this case following my original question) are not going to go through warning lights. The lights don't flash all the time; most of the time it is a traffic throughfare. What my question was meant to be was how many farangs reading this would stop the flow of traffic until the crossing was clear at the opposite side of the rail line while there were no restrictions from the railway?

This is what most of you are saying you do, and I am saying boll*cks, no one does this.

If the flow of traffic is stopped by a red light (traffic, not rail) further down the road, then there is a chance you will end up over the tracks as you will have nowhere to go; you sure ain't gonna back out of it!

Be honest with yourselves..........

[moskito]

Suppose the real answer has to be what we in UK call the yellow box and barriers.

1. you do not enter the yellow box unless your exit is clear.

2. there must be barriers or gates down/shut, before the signals for the train are set to green.

3. 1 or 2K fine for drivers who stop on the yellow box, properly enforced.

As said before in the UK trains go much faster, but there much better and failsafe system in force, (yet we still get some idiots wiped out who break the rules or break down in the crossing).

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/xings1/xings1.html

at least on Phukets streets there are yellow boxes painted in some places and you know what? NOBODY gives a rat...s TiT

You are absolutely right, there should be a fee of 1-2000 Baht BUT WHO should watch for it and charge it? The Bib is often too busy doing other things or they are just scared of the headaches a stopped bighead will cause to them.

Anyway, I dont like the more and more trafficlights system here but with more and more cars and more and more idiots without proper driving lessons, I guess there is no other way -

Som nam na if the Thais get the same system we have in Germany....If only fees make them care for the traffic then be it like it is...better they start to educate the drivers and forget the LOOSING FACE when friendly rule.

[Cheops]

I'm with you sfm, it's garbage, and while drivers look no further ahead than their own grille, then it won't get better. I never enter an intersection/rail crossing unless I'm assured of being able to clear it and not be left standing there like a stale bottle of Chang. Rude, arrogant, self centered, selfish and ignorant drivers caused this. I call them 'me firsters' and they would walk all over you to achieve their own selfish aims. They could never be relied on to act decently in an emergency such as an evacuation from an aircraft. Pricks!!

Well said!

[jehricaholic]

I wonder if any of the vehicle occupants tried to vacate when they saw the train coming, probably none assumed it would stop as normal when they block the track.

That's what I'm thinking....First you see/hear the signal lights/bells. Second you see the track worker waving his red flag. Third you hear the whistle/bells from the train. Fourth you hear the several seconds of the squealing of the breaks of the train.

AND YOU ARE STILL SITTING IN YOUR CAR ON THE TRACKS???

[elcent]

I wonder if any of the vehicle occupants tried to vacate when they saw the train coming, probably none assumed it would stop as normal when they block the track.

That's what I'm thinking....First you see/hear the signal lights/bells. Second you see the track worker waving his red flag. Third you hear the whistle/bells from the train. Fourth you hear the several seconds of the squealing of the breaks of the train.

AND YOU ARE STILL SITTING IN YOUR CAR ON THE TRACKS???

they were busy with playing Facebook on their hand-held devices.

[richard_smith237]

This is what most of you are saying you do, and I am saying boll*cks, no one does this.

If the flow of traffic is stopped by a red light (traffic, not rail) further down the road, then there is a chance you will end up over the tracks as you will have nowhere to go; you sure ain't gonna back out of it!

Be honest with yourselves..........

And I agree. I don't do this either. I follow the car in front of me unless traffic lights stop me. I do my best to stop at a box junction, but with so many other things going on around me in the traffic I sometimes get caught out and block the odd box junction here or there (although lately I feel I have been the one to trigger drivers in the next lane to follow suit and stop for a box junction thus easing traffic at the potential onset of localized gridlock)....

This level crossing incident is preventable. But any measure taken to prevent further occurrence will come at the cost of the convenience of many and create significant gridlock else where. This is perhaps a situation where there is no ideal system, just the best of a handful of poor systems.

Someone will ask for it, but I'm not going to provide proof as I can't be bothered to look for it (I'm about to head out): BUT, it has been my understanding for many years now that the country with the highest incidence of level crossing incidents is the USA, so lets stop trying to turn this into a 'Thai' issue, its not, its simply an issue of poor road design and given the monies involved with having to redesign a road and rail system around an inner city level crossing versus the 1 in x years accident it seems hardly worth it when far more significant impact could be made in other areas of traffic safety.

[Fookhaht]

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

You just don't enter the track area until you see a safe exit on the other side is assured. How hard is that? What am I missing here?

(From Upcountry Bumpkin where we get one train a day).

[bkkmaak]

I use this junction often. What I really hate is "bullying" from the cars behind when I sit and wait at a green light with the exit blocked. This behaviour, i.e. others bullying you to break the rules, is one of my pet peeves about driving in Thailand.

[thatp]

Train has right of way.

Motorists have no business putting their vehicle astride railway track at any time (with oncoming train or not).

Prevalent short span of attention means no one will learn anything, except perhaps some of those reckless and stupid motorists injured, if they ever recover and hopefully regain (or rather acquire)their good sense.

[bkkmaak]

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

You just don't enter the track area until you see a safe exit on the other side is assured. How hard is that? What am I missing here?

(From Upcountry Bumpkin where we get one train a day).

This junction is sometimes difficult to judge. The traffic light line is quite a distance from the rail line and even further from the exit of the yellow line area. In heavy traffic it is not easy to judge the movement of vehicles ahead. I believe there's a slight bend in the road too. Quite often the traffic ahead stops suddenly. If you're not concentrating 100% then it is quite easy to make a mistake. That said, the vast majority of people don't even bother to try and follow the rules.

[Fookhaht]

I use this junction often. What I really hate is "bullying" from the cars behind when I sit and wait at a green light with the exit blocked. This behaviour, i.e. others bullying you to break the rules, is one of my pet peeves about driving in Thailand.

So you have a clear choice: put up with bullying or flirt death and injury. Again, am I missing something here?

We have about 3 intersections in my town where no one stops at the red lights. I just pull closer to the edge of the road (where I won't get rear-ended), and turn off my imaginary hearing-aid to horns and yelling that may occur to my rear. Still alive. Seems like a simple choice to me.

[Fookhaht]

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

You just don't enter the track area until you see a safe exit on the other side is assured. How hard is that? What am I missing here?

(From Upcountry Bumpkin where we get one train a day).

This junction is sometimes difficult to judge. The traffic light line is quite a distance from the rail line and even further from the exit of the yellow line area. In heavy traffic it is not easy to judge the movement of vehicles ahead. I believe there's a slight bend in the road too. Quite often the traffic ahead stops suddenly. If you're not concentrating 100% then it is quite easy to make a mistake. That said, the vast majority of people don't even bother to try and follow the rules.

Thanks for the clarification. A dilemma indeed..

[whybother]

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

You just don't enter the track area until you see a safe exit on the other side is assured. How hard is that? What am I missing here?

(From Upcountry Bumpkin where we get one train a day).

What you're missing is at this particular crossing that if you wait until it's safe to exit, you will be there for a week (or longer). If you leave even half a car length in front of you, someone will take that space - even if they stop ON the tracks.

[whybother]

This junction is sometimes difficult to judge. The traffic light line is quite a distance from the rail line and even further from the exit of the yellow line area. In heavy traffic it is not easy to judge the movement of vehicles ahead. I believe there's a slight bend in the road too. Quite often the traffic ahead stops suddenly. If you're not concentrating 100% then it is quite easy to make a mistake. That said, the vast majority of people don't even bother to try and follow the rules.

Which junction are you talking about? Because that doesn't sound like the Asoke / Petchaburi junction.

Google Maps

The above map (satellite) actually gives a good indication of what the traffic is normally like. The ground level train crossing runs along below (slightly south of) the Airport Link.

Edited December 15, 2011 by whybother

[DickFarang]

If the accident happened during evening hours, why was the "railway official" waving a red flag and not a red lamp? Why were cars "parked" (stopped) on railway tracks when the warning lights were flashing? Silly questions of course. T.I.T.

However these accidents also happen in other countries with supposedly more sophisticated warning and gate systems.

I hope the train driver is OK and also the idiots in their cars, stopped on the tracks, who were injured.

Have you ever been to that intersection? There are cars stopped on the tracks 90% of the day.

Usually, the police at Petchaburi / Asoke intersection let the lights run to clear the traffic enough to get the traffic off the tracks and the gates across. They must have been asleep.

This is a waiting disaster in Pattaya too. Soi Know Noi to Sukhumvit

Soi Kao Talo same same.

[mgjackson69]

...drivers do sometimes get stuck half way across the rail tracks, through no particular fault of their own...

Through no particular fault of their own? How do you figure?

It is in the driver's best interests to not go onto the tracks until he/she knows they can clear the tracks.

[sparebox2]

A question have to be ask and answered.

Did they build the road there 1st, or the rail line?

I say, 1st come 1st serve.

[whybother]

A question have to be ask and answered.

Did they build the road there 1st, or the rail line?

I say, 1st come 1st serve.

Actually, it doesn't need to be asked OR answered.

[Fookhaht]

A question have to be ask and answered.

Did they build the road there 1st, or the rail line?

I say, 1st come 1st serve.

A 100,000-tonne freight train which takes a half-mile (or more) to stop, doesn't ask that question.

[F4UCorsair]

Thaihome said, "Yes, congestion is eased by blocking the crossing. If cars did not do that, they tail end of the line would back into Khampheang Phet 7 Road causing even worse traffic."

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but by not entering the intersection/crossing, the only backing up of traffic is by the number of cars that it takes to block the crossing, half a dozen, maybe. Congestion is NOT eased by blocking the crossing.

I'm not sure Thai drivers are worse than western drivers. It may be a little more chaotic in Bangkok, but drivers here in Australia are just as inconsiderate and stupid.

Edited December 15, 2011 by F4UCorsair

[DoctorG]

I don't know why anyone bothers to comment on a situation that we all know is not going to change. Just don't drive in thailand (and many other places in the world) if you like living. They are not going to change so either accept it, or get out of the way.

Edited December 15, 2011 by DoctorG

[kuhske]

The drivers obviously did not heed the signal (audible or visible). I had been a passenger on the commuter train before the BTS was built, and remember hearing the railroad crossing signal but drivers nearly always raced to cross the track, particularly the motorcyclists.

[BKK22]

Trains are not normally held responsible for accidents with vehicles at crossings. A train is very difficult to stop.

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

Same as the stupid rule that says bigger cars hold responsible when getting into an accident. I parked my car on the street then an idiot on a motor bike crashed my car and got injured. I had to pay for his injure.

[whybother]

The drivers obviously did not heed the signal (audible or visible). I had been a passenger on the commuter train before the BTS was built, and remember hearing the railroad crossing signal but drivers nearly always raced to cross the track, particularly the motorcyclists.

They were probably already stopped on the tracks when the signals started and the traffic didn't move after that.

[wxyz]

what? no farang in any of those cars to BLAME it on? or on the train? or maybe even a farang pedestrian?