Advice Re 800K Deposit

[gamini]

I am have a little difficulty raising the 800k deposit required for my retirement visa this year due to unforeseen medical expenses. My younger brother in the UK can "lend" me the money so I can put it on fixed deposit. He thinks the Thai baht is a strong enough currency, and so it is a way of diversifying his investments even though the interest is not much.

The problem is that it has to be in my name only. He would be prepared to leave the investment in my bank indefinitely which would be very helpful to me and avoid the worry of trying to maintain the required balance. Since I am 80 + I want to know how my brother can get this deposit in the event of my demise without going through too much hassle.

Any one, any ideas please.

[cardholder]

Make a Will, have it translated into Thai (the only version that will apply for the Thai bank) and give copies to your brother.

You can leave all, or a specified amount, to your brother.

Note, that for a retirement visa you can use a mix of capital and income. Assuming that receive a full UK pension you will only need to show circa 550,000 Baht in the bank.

[Suradit69]

Make a Will, have it translated into Thai (the only version that will apply for the Thai bank) and give copies to your brother.

It would be necessary/better to have a will drawn up by a Thai lawyer with an English translation to guide your brother rather than the other way around. A few years ago I had a will drawn up for about B 10,000., which was considerably more than it cost me 10 years ago, but I wanted more than just a bank account in the will. The lawyer kept a copy in Thai and both my beneficiary and I received copies, one in English for me.

You should also inform your embassy what you want done or who you want contacted in the event of your death. My embassy said they would abide by my Thai will if I appointed a Thai person to deal with my estate and my funeral.

When a foreigner dies, his/her embassy is contacted by the police. Some embassies put a hold on everything until they contact the next of kin back home unless they have evidence of a legally appointed local executor.

Your Thai will and your will covering assets in your home country should be separate documents since they involve different jurisdictions and different legal systems.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Suradit69

[NancyL]

If, like us, your only assets in Thailand are bank accounts, you could do a simple Will at the amphur office, at least you can here in Chiang Mai city. The staff spoke very little English but they did have a standard fill-in-the-blanks form on their computer (in Thai only) to handle situations where you have clearly defined assets, like a bank account. They listed the accounts by number, so if we change accounts (as in moving to another bank) we have to start the process again. It's OK to leave the assets to a foreigner.

The amphur keeps at copy of the Will on file and gave us the sealed original plus one copy. There was a big warning about not breaking the seal until the "proper time". We made a copy of the copy and gave it to our bank manager. Not all bank managers will accept them to put in your file.

This Will was amazingly cheap -- less than 1000 baht for Hubby and me. The major expense was going to CM Ram hospital to visit a shrink who filled out a form that we are "of sound mind" (He actually had a conversation with us about why we were getting Wills in Thailand.. So I guess he earned his fee.)

The drawback is that the people at the amphur office speak very little English and the Will is in Thai only. But, it's just a one-page document which should be cheap to pay someone to translate. I've been taking private lessons in Thai for three years, so my teacher and I used the entire "get a Will" process as a learning exercise. She didn't go with me to the amphur office, but we did "practice" in advance and I translated the Will as an exercise, with her checking it. It was education for her, too, since she's a young woman and doesn't have her own Will.

If you elect to use a Thai lawyer, make sure that the Thai version of the Will is filed with the amphur office. Most good lawyers will do this, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

[gamini]

If, like us, your only assets in Thailand are bank accounts, you could do a simple Will at the amphur office, at least you can here in Chiang Mai city. The staff spoke very little English but they did have a standard fill-in-the-blanks form on their computer (in Thai only) to handle situations where you have clearly defined assets, like a bank account. They listed the accounts by number, so if we change accounts (as in moving to another bank) we have to start the process again. It's OK to leave the assets to a foreigner.

The amphur keeps at copy of the Will on file and gave us the sealed original plus one copy. There was a big warning about not breaking the seal until the "proper time". We made a copy of the copy and gave it to our bank manager. Not all bank managers will accept them to put in your file.

This Will was amazingly cheap -- less than 1000 baht for Hubby and me. The major expense was going to CM Ram hospital to visit a shrink who filled out a form that we are "of sound mind" (He actually had a conversation with us about why we were getting Wills in Thailand.. So I guess he earned his fee.)

The drawback is that the people at the amphur office speak very little English and the Will is in Thai only. But, it's just a one-page document which should be cheap to pay someone to translate. I've been taking private lessons in Thai for three years, so my teacher and I used the entire "get a Will" process as a learning exercise. She didn't go with me to the amphur office, but we did "practice" in advance and I translated the Will as an exercise, with her checking it. It was education for her, too, since she's a young woman and doesn't have her own Will.

If you elect to use a Thai lawyer, make sure that the Thai version of the Will is filed with the amphur office. Most good lawyers will do this, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks very much for your help. But how would my brother go about getting the money because he can not come to Thailand because he can not fly (for health reasons).

My Nephew lives in the UK and I know he would come straight here. Perhaps I could make him the beneficiary and he could get the money here and give it back to my brother.??

[garrfeild]

There may be quicker way to get the funds back to your brother, Though I'm not sure if it would work! If your Thai bank allows online International transfers, You could give your brother the bank login details etc. He could then log on and transfer the funds back to the UK as and when. You could check to see if you are allowed a second name on the account. Though I'm not sure if immigration would have a problem with this.

The other way would be to transfer the funds to Thailand 4 months before your visa renewal date then transfer them back to the UK after, but there will be exchange rate fees and you would loose a percentage on converting from one currency to the other.

My only reservation would be if the Thai baht really is investment worthy. Yes it is a little weaker now, the recent developments, political as well as Natural will make the baht weaker still (if only) but you never know. Unless you put the money in a timed deposit you won't get a lot of interest on the 800,000.

Good Luck

Edited December 19, 2011 by garrfeild

[NancyL]

If the OP's brother can't travel to Thailand, then it is probably best to consult a lawyer.

The retirement visa account must be a sole account, but the OP could transfer the funds into a joint account (at the same Thai bank) every year and then transfer the funds into his sole account just for the seasoning period. However, I don't know if someone can be a joint account holder and never sit foot in Thailand to get their name on the joint account. Certainly all the Thai banks have good internet banking services, but I don't know if they'd allow an out-of-country joint account holder to clear out an account upon the death of the other party.

Like many things in Thailand, the OP may want to talk to several people, including a lawyer and the branch manager of his bank. We've always followed the rule to talk with at least three Thais who should be knowledgeable about issues like this and if at least two of them say the same thing, then it's probably reality. In other words, don't accept the first story you hear.

Edited December 19, 2011 by NancyL

[JimGant]

If you elect to use a Thai lawyer, make sure that the Thai version of the Will is filed with the amphur office. Most good lawyers will do this, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

And by being filed with the amphur, most banks will accept this to release your funds to the Will's designated beneficiary. Thus avoiding going through a Thai probate judge. But, double check with your bank on what's required upon your death. (Nancy,I assume this is the situation with you, i.e. no formal probate will be required?)

[4evermaat]

what about listing someone as a beneficiary on the bank account?

[NancyL]

If you elect to use a Thai lawyer, make sure that the Thai version of the Will is filed with the amphur office. Most good lawyers will do this, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

And by being filed with the amphur, most banks will accept this to release your funds to the Will's designated beneficiary. Thus avoiding going through a Thai probate judge. But, double check with your bank on what's required upon your death. (Nancy,I assume this is the situation with you, i.e. no formal probate will be required?)

Yes, it's my understanding that by having the Will on file at the amphur, the heir will be able to obtain the funds without probate. At least that's what we were told by the bank manager and the lady at the amphur office who handles Wills. Fortunately, we haven't had see if they are correct.

The bank manager said they'd put copies of the Wills in our files at the bank and then they'd check with the Amphur to see if they have the most recent Will if one of us dies. Since then, the bank manager has been transferred and the new one has told people they don't want to keep copies of Wills on file at the bank. In any event -- the Will on file at the amphur is the one that counts.

[NancyL]

what about listing someone as a beneficiary on the bank account?

The bank account for the 800K deposit must be in the sole name of the person seeking the visa extension. I don't believe there is a provision to list a "beneficiary" for a bank account in Thailand. We certainly haven't been asked for that information when we've opened accounts.

[gamini]

If the OP's brother can't travel to Thailand, then it is probably best to consult a lawyer.

The retirement visa account must be a sole account, but the OP could transfer the funds into a joint account (at the same Thai bank) every year and then transfer the funds into his sole account just for the seasoning period. However, I don't know if someone can be a joint account holder and never sit foot in Thailand to get their name on the joint account. Certainly all the Thai banks have good internet banking services, but I don't know if they'd allow an out-of-country joint account holder to clear out an account upon the death of the other party.

Like many things in Thailand, the OP may want to talk to several people, including a lawyer and the branch manager of his bank. We've always followed the rule to talk with at least three Thais who should be knowledgeable about issues like this and if at least two of them say the same thing, then it's probably reality. In other words, don't accept the first story you hear.

Thanks I do have internet banking at my bank in Thailand and at a Bank in Australia. So if my Nephew has my login and comes here he could transfer the 800k to my brothers account in UK. I have considered this. But can you simply just log in and transfer Thai Baht to an overseas account over the internet? are not any permits required? proof that the money was remitted here from abroad etc.

[a99az]

This is a no brainer. All you have to do is deposit the money into your account. Send your brother all your bank account details including passwords of your on line banking. Make sure he is informed of your death so that he can transfer all the money to his account on line (your brother could test this by transferring a few Bhart). You should also give him a letter saying that he can do this. Also make sure that you are the only one who will ever have access to the bank book, in other words make sure no one here in Thailand takes the book to the bank with your death certificate to try and collect the money. This will cost nothing. I know that a few here would say that this might not be quite by the book, but it would be easy, fast, and free.

Edited December 21, 2011 by a99az

[Jingthing]

It would be totally illegal to access a dead person's account, posing as if the dead person was still alive. I think that is horrible advice. When a person dies, the bank needs to be informed and such accounts are frozen until the rightful heir makes a legal claim. I also think that YES it will be a big problem to do online transfers OUT of Thailand.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[cardholder]

It would be totally illegal to access a dead person's account, posing as if the dead person was still alive. I think that is horrible advice. When a person dies, the bank needs to be informed and such accounts are frozen until the rightful heir makes a legal claim. I also think that YES it will be a big problem to do online transfers OUT of Thailand.

In fairness, it is practical advice but should not be relied on just on it's own.

Do the Will as a back up.

[Jingthing]

Lets think this out.

An expat retiree dies.

He has a large Thai bank account.

The heir logs on from overseas and attempts to empty the account in one transaction, sending the money OUT of Thailand without one of the approved reasons. So you expect that online transaction to be approved? I wouldn't. So it is not approved, and then the person who illegally attempted this must come to Thailand to enforce the will which would mean having a death certificate showing time of death. The bank then has clear documentation that a crime was attempted by logging into a dead person's account.