Interesting

[Yummgasm]

Yestyerday while having a social debate with well educated and senior staff of my work place about the government and the two colored sides, this is the outcome I got from them.

"They are red shirt followers because blood is red."

" They do not care about other people's flooded homes because they are red shirtsw and their houses are dry"

When I tried to explain about how many red shirts have suffered too they just changed a subject.

Even when I explained of how we could work together and even on a funny note explained how red and yellow make orange, which is the color of their uniforms they work in they still denied any want to try.

I am 100% sure that with peoploe like this around the country has very very far to having any chance of the slightest light at the end of the tunnel.

It's amazing how brains are wired like this.

[xthAi76s]

Sounds like they may be well-schooled, perhaps, but certainly not well-educated...

[Dave9000]

It is a hallmark of all radicals (or in this case 'redicals') and extremists to not accept an alternative view to that which they slavishly subscribe. Education has little effect over indoctrination. Education can however lead people to recognise radicals. Knowing the nature of the threat is paramount, to being able to stem its effect.

[bendejo]

Imagine being in a pub in London in 1942 and trying to point out the good things about Germany...

[geriatrickid]

Imagine being in a pub in London in 1942 and trying to point out the good things about Germany...

Umm, Berlin from an airplane looks very nice when lit up.

In respect to the OP, some people when faced with the truth, will become even more entrenched in their views and embrace denial. Even after the Americans forced the locals to visit concentration camps that were liberated, the locals were still clinging to the excuse that they didn't know.

In order for people on both sides of the political equation to break this impasse of prejudice, they are going to have to get out and visit the other side. It is a shame that we don't see people organizing from "yellow zones" going to help the "red zones" and vice versa. In terms of building understanding, it works well and is demonstrated in the USA, Canada, Australia etc. after catastrophes when citizens organize. examples were Hurricane Katrina, the great western floods on the Canadian prairies and in Quebec, and following the Australian wildfires. It is amazing what elbow grease and giving of oneself does to foster understanding.

[Travel2003]

Hmm, seems like a new member (welcome) started out with some hot stuff, which can flare up.

;-)

[pgs]

responses of similar nature if a comparison between the happenings at temples & western churches at my place.

mostly it's easier not to bother, but sometimes you just have to...

[Travel2003]

Imagine being in a pub in London in 1942 and trying to point out the good things about Germany...

Umm, Berlin from an airplane looks very nice when lit up.

In respect to the OP, some people when faced with the truth, will become even more entrenched in their views and embrace denial. Even after the Americans forced the locals to visit concentration camps that were liberated, the locals were still clinging to the excuse that they didn't know.

In order for people on both sides of the political equation to break this impasse of prejudice, they are going to have to get out and visit the other side. It is a shame that we don't see people organizing from "yellow zones" going to help the "red zones" and vice versa. In terms of building understanding, it works well and is demonstrated in the USA, Canada, Australia etc. after catastrophes when citizens organize. examples were Hurricane Katrina, the great western floods on the Canadian prairies and in Quebec, and following the Australian wildfires. It is amazing what elbow grease and giving of oneself does to foster understanding.

Really, Hurricane Katrina a good example?

Rest of the world watched it live on television and was horrified over the poor attempts to take care of people equally.

Never forget the "sunshine story" on Fox television, when a Black-hawk helicopter picks up a dog from a roof, and basically next door is a "black family" on their roof being ignored. Some way to spend the dollars.

[BookMan]

Interesting, but not so unusual. Different sides of politics the world over rarely see eye to eye and agree on little.

[doji]

The OP sounds like a person who like to judge a book by the quality of its two staples.

[SimonD]

Interesting thread.

My GF is an intelligent but poorly educated lass from a small village in Isaan and when I first met her she was thoroughly indoctrinated in the 'red shirt manifesto'. She was intolerant of any other point of view and hostile when challenged. When I probed into her political and social beliefs an amazing transformation began to occur - she actually started to doubt what she had been told and expressed a desire to broaden her perspectives. I encouraged this and between us we bought many books on the subject and she became an avid reader of Thai politics and history. There was always a book in her handbag! She would quiz me on how democracy works in the West and we spent many interesting hours discussing politics. She became an 'information sponge.'

Once she had a fuller grasp of the subject she complained that that she had never been encouraged to think for herself before and was critical of the poor education most of her fellow Isaanites receive. She now has a more balanced set of opinions, can tolerate reasonable discussion by adherents of either side but rejects any fanatical or hardcore views.

So, it's all down to education, at least in her case, and I don't think she's unique. Thailand is an immature democracy and the current developments are probably long overdue. Don't forget that it took the West many hundreds of years and much social conflict to achieve the level of political maturity we enjoy (?) in the western world. Thailand is just starting its journy on that road. i wish them the best of luck.

[natchainuk]

Are any tv members countries governed by farmers, cleaners and servants? Why would Bkk want to be governed by the same. Thailand should be governed by the elite social class, as are all democratic and developed countries. Nobody wants a red government, only them that took the 500 baht. Bkk needs the <snip> Yellow governance for the good of all Thai people.

Edited December 26, 2011 by craigt3365
small edit made

[MrMuddle]

Are any tv members countries governed by farmers, cleaners and servants? Why would Bkk want to be governed by the same. Thailand should be governed by the elite social class, as are all democratic and developed countries. Nobody wants a red government, only them that took the 500 baht. Bkk needs the <snip> Yellow governance for the good of all Thai people.

Good to see that you're a free thinking individual, who has somehow managed to avoid being indoctrinated by either side of the political spectrum here.

It is interesting that you seem to think that Bangkok IS Thailand, perhaps you're doing a bit of "trolling" here, away from your PAD duties.

However, if one looks outside of Thailand (scary I know, but there IS a big wide world out there), one would see that people in countries as diverse as the USA, Russia, Syria, Israel, Tunisia, and Bahrein, are taking to the streets, trying to get rid of the "elitists", that rule their countries, at the expense of the ordinary people's hopes and aspirations. Compromise is the essence of true democracy, and until the reds and yellows learn this, or a better alternative comes along, Thailand will continue in this seemingly endless spiral of "he said, she said" politics.

Edited December 26, 2011 by craigt3365
small edit made

[Trembly]

Yestyerday while having a social debate with well educated and senior staff of my work place about the government and the two colored sides, this is the outcome I got from them.

"They are red shirt followers because blood is red."

" They do not care about other people's flooded homes because they are red shirtsw and their houses are dry"

When I tried to explain about how many red shirts have suffered too they just changed a subject.

Even when I explained of how we could work together and even on a funny note explained how red and yellow make orange, which is the color of their uniforms they work in they still denied any want to try.

I am 100% sure that with peoploe like this around the country has very very far to having any chance of the slightest light at the end of the tunnel.

It's amazing how brains are wired like this.

Yaawwwn . . . common-reference-point-adherents refuse to deviate from their chosen validation-giving common reference points.

Same same but diffen led one.

[travelmann]

Imagine being in a pub in London in 1942 and trying to point out the good things about Germany...

Umm, Berlin from an airplane looks very nice when lit up.

In respect to the OP, some people when faced with the truth, will become even more entrenched in their views and embrace denial. Even after the Americans forced the locals to visit concentration camps that were liberated, the locals were still clinging to the excuse that they didn't know.

In order for people on both sides of the political equation to break this impasse of prejudice, they are going to have to get out and visit the other side. It is a shame that we don't see people organizing from "yellow zones" going to help the "red zones" and vice versa. In terms of building understanding, it works well and is demonstrated in the USA, Canada, Australia etc. after catastrophes when citizens organize. examples were Hurricane Katrina, the great western floods on the Canadian prairies and in Quebec, and following the Australian wildfires. It is amazing what elbow grease and giving of oneself does to foster understanding.

Really, Hurricane Katrina a good example?

Rest of the world watched it live on television and was horrified over the poor attempts to take care of people equally.

Never forget the "sunshine story" on Fox television, when a Black-hawk helicopter picks up a dog from a roof, and basically next door is a "black family" on their roof being ignored. Some way to spend the dollars.

Maybe the pilot was Thai...............draw one of many conlcusions on that one!!

[JurgenG]

Interesting thread.

My GF is an intelligent but poorly educated lass from a small village in Isaan and when I first met her she was thoroughly indoctrinated in the 'red shirt manifesto'. She was intolerant of any other point of view and hostile when challenged. When I probed into her political and social beliefs an amazing transformation began to occur - she actually started to doubt what she had been told and expressed a desire to broaden her perspectives. I encouraged this and between us we bought many books on the subject and she became an avid reader of Thai politics and history. There was always a book in her handbag! She would quiz me on how democracy works in the West and we spent many interesting hours discussing politics. She became an 'information sponge.'

Once she had a fuller grasp of the subject she complained that that she had never been encouraged to think for herself before and was critical of the poor education most of her fellow Isaanites receive. She now has a more balanced set of opinions, can tolerate reasonable discussion by adherents of either side but rejects any fanatical or hardcore views.

So, it's all down to education, at least in her case, and I don't think she's unique. Thailand is an immature democracy and the current developments are probably long overdue. Don't forget that it took the West many hundreds of years and much social conflict to achieve the level of political maturity we enjoy (?) in the western world. Thailand is just starting its journy on that road. i wish them the best of luck.

Are any tv members countries governed by farmers, cleaners and servants? Why would Bkk want to be governed by the same. Thailand should be governed by the elite social class, as are all democratic and developed countries. Nobody wants a red government, only them that took the 500 baht. Bkk needs the <snip> Yellow governance for the good of all Thai people.

If SimonD has some spare time, maybe he can try to educate natchainuk as well.

Edited December 27, 2011 by JurgenG

[pitrevie]

Interesting thread.

My GF is an intelligent but poorly educated lass from a small village in Isaan and when I first met her she was thoroughly indoctrinated in the 'red shirt manifesto'. She was intolerant of any other point of view and hostile when challenged. When I probed into her political and social beliefs an amazing transformation began to occur - she actually started to doubt what she had been told and expressed a desire to broaden her perspectives. I encouraged this and between us we bought many books on the subject and she became an avid reader of Thai politics and history. There was always a book in her handbag! She would quiz me on how democracy works in the West and we spent many interesting hours discussing politics. She became an 'information sponge.'

Once she had a fuller grasp of the subject she complained that that she had never been encouraged to think for herself before and was critical of the poor education most of her fellow Isaanites receive. She now has a more balanced set of opinions, can tolerate reasonable discussion by adherents of either side but rejects any fanatical or hardcore views.

So, it's all down to education, at least in her case, and I don't think she's unique. Thailand is an immature democracy and the current developments are probably long overdue. Don't forget that it took the West many hundreds of years and much social conflict to achieve the level of political maturity we enjoy (?) in the western world. Thailand is just starting its journy on that road. i wish them the best of luck.

I am not so sure that it is all that better in Western countries. I was often told that Labour could put a donkey up for election is some constituencies and he/she would be elected. The speaker who was right wing didn't seem to think that the same applied in Conservative constituencies in equal measure. I listen to one woman in the USA on Fox say that she formed all her opinions listening to Glenn Beck. Listening to my Thai friends whenever anything political is raised I could be back in the UK listening to my friends there. IMHO politics is the same the world over most people don't give a dam_n, very sad

[Richard W]

Thailand should be governed by the elite social class, as are all democratic and developed countries.

Thailand is governed by the elite social class, at least to the same extent that the US and UK are.

[JohnnyHarvey]

My first encounter with Thailand was so unbelievable that I desperately needed to return. I had only been sent for twelve days in order to complete a research project on Buddhist Art. Once the taste of Asia entered my mouth, I couldn't let it go. Following graduation from a small liberal art university in New York, I spent one final summer in New England before heading off on a one-way ticket to ...Bangkok, in search of answers to questions that I did not yet understand.

I have since learned to speak Thai, which enables all doors to open. Living in and traveling across northern Thailand, and through The Golden Triangle, has quenched many of my thirsts for adventure, sex, drugs, danger and excitement. I have subsequently made trips into rural northern Laos along the Mae Kong River, up to the Chinese border. I have spent time in Cambodia, and come to some of my own conclusions about the horrific Khmer past. I have also lived on a remote island, far off the southern Thai coast in the Andaman Sea.

Residing in South East Asia over the last seven years has opened my mind to better understand mysteries of the Far East, both the enticing and disturbing. I lived in the fast lane, and regularly pushed myself to the limits. Black Arts in South East Asia is a Non-Fiction story that captures the 21st century and my experiences in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Laos, Udon Thani, Cambodia, as well as on the beaches. Dare I say this story is not for my own grandmother, however it sheds a truthful torch of light into the dark worlds of prostitution, pimps, transvestites, killers, thieves, human trafficking and counter culture.

Black Arts in South East Asia chronicles a true-to-life adventure that can be retraced entirely, as I have not doctored the names, places, or people I have encountered along the way. For these reasons, I am confident that my non-fiction story is as up to date, authentic, and original as anything else in its genera. I believe this book has the potential to spark a new generation of travelers looking to better understand themselves and the world they pass through.

Here is link to my blog, where I have some exerpts, and more a complete description of my book, or take a look at my facebook book page, tilted, Black Arts in South East Asia

http://bainsea.blogspot.com/

[Huayrat]

Interesting thread.

My GF is an intelligent but poorly educated lass from a small village in Isaan and when I first met her she was thoroughly indoctrinated in the 'red shirt manifesto'. She was intolerant of any other point of view and hostile when challenged. When I probed into her political and social beliefs an amazing transformation began to occur - she actually started to doubt what she had been told and expressed a desire to broaden her perspectives. I encouraged this and between us we bought many books on the subject and she became an avid reader of Thai politics and history. There was always a book in her handbag! She would quiz me on how democracy works in the West and we spent many interesting hours discussing politics. She became an 'information sponge.'

Once she had a fuller grasp of the subject she complained that that she had never been encouraged to think for herself before and was critical of the poor education most of her fellow Isaanites receive. She now has a more balanced set of opinions, can tolerate reasonable discussion by adherents of either side but rejects any fanatical or hardcore views.

So, it's all down to education, at least in her case, and I don't think she's unique. Thailand is an immature democracy and the current developments are probably long overdue. Don't forget that it took the West many hundreds of years and much social conflict to achieve the level of political maturity we enjoy (?) in the western world. Thailand is just starting its journy on that road. i wish them the best of luck.

I am not so sure that it is all that better in Western countries. I was often told that Labour could put a donkey up for election is some constituencies and he/she would be elected. The speaker who was right wing didn't seem to think that the same applied in Conservative constituencies in equal measure. I listen to one woman in the USA on Fox say that she formed all her opinions listening to Glenn Beck. Listening to my Thai friends whenever anything political is raised I could be back in the UK listening to my friends there. IMHO politics is the same the world over most people don't give a dam_n, very sad

They put a monkey mascot up in Hartlepool and he won haha,,, shame they would not let him wear the monkey suit in office as thats what they voted for, Instead they got the idiot inside of it now as a Major

[nocturn]

My first encounter with Thailand was so unbelievable that I desperately needed to return. I had only been sent for twelve days in order to complete a research project on Buddhist Art. Once the taste of Asia entered my mouth, I couldn't let it go. Following graduation from a small liberal art university in New York, I spent one final summer in New England before heading off on a one-way ticket to ...Bangkok, in search of answers to questions that I did not yet understand.

I have since learned to speak Thai, which enables all doors to open. Living in and traveling across northern Thailand, and through The Golden Triangle, has quenched many of my thirsts for adventure, sex, drugs, danger and excitement. I have subsequently made trips into rural northern Laos along the Mae Kong River, up to the Chinese border. I have spent time in Cambodia, and come to some of my own conclusions about the horrific Khmer past. I have also lived on a remote island, far off the southern Thai coast in the Andaman Sea.

Residing in South East Asia over the last seven years has opened my mind to better understand mysteries of the Far East, both the enticing and disturbing. I lived in the fast lane, and regularly pushed myself to the limits. Black Arts in South East Asia is a Non-Fiction story that captures the 21st century and my experiences in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Laos, Udon Thani, Cambodia, as well as on the beaches. Dare I say this story is not for my own grandmother, however it sheds a truthful torch of light into the dark worlds of prostitution, pimps, transvestites, killers, thieves, human trafficking and counter culture.

Black Arts in South East Asia chronicles a true-to-life adventure that can be retraced entirely, as I have not doctored the names, places, or people I have encountered along the way. For these reasons, I am confident that my non-fiction story is as up to date, authentic, and original as anything else in its genera. I believe this book has the potential to spark a new generation of travelers looking to better understand themselves and the world they pass through.

Here is link to my blog, where I have some exerpts, and more a complete description of my book, or take a look at my facebook book page, tilted, Black Arts in South East Asia

http://bainsea.blogspot.com/

well, i took a look at your blog, and if the piece on the Chiang Mai Highway is any indicator, the gratuitous use of commas makes it almost unreadable.