A Quick Grammar Question

[Crossy]

Interesting discussion on such a simple question, so I'll throw in my thoughts.

I would leave it as "Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% go bad. How many oranges are good?".

My reasoning is that there are implied words:-

"Susy has 400 fresh oranges. Of these oranges, 7% go bad after a week. How many oranges are still good?"

I'll crawl back under my rock now

[SICHONSTEVE]

Jaapfries, thanks for the explanation, which makes sense. I do envy people who can explain a grammar point simply and consicely.

I don't recall what name was actually used. The spelling 'Susy' was my mistake. But since I asked for the grammar/spelling brigade to come out in full force, feel free to shoot at will!

I think that you mean CONCISELY - to be exact!!!.

Edited January 1, 2012 by SICHONSTEVE

[seeker720]

I would also say use "go". Other people have explained why "goes" is wrong, because 7% of the oranges is more than 1 orange. Some people are proposing "have gone" or "went" which are both grammatically correct. To say "7% of the oranges have gone bad" is to say something like, "Right now, 7% of these oranges are bad, and they went bad some time in the past." So you would use "have x" to reference the past while talking about the present. You would use "went" if you were referencing the past while talking about the past. So "Last year I went to Thailand for the second time" and "As of today, I have gone to Thailand twice."

The original example describes events as they (hypothetically) occur in the present. This is the form sports announcers usually use. ("He jumps, he shoots, he scores!") Sometimes you see it in narratives. So in the original example, when the speaker says "7% of the oranges go bad" that is when they went bad. How or why this occurred is assumed to be irrelevant. Math problems, like this one appears to be, are often worded this way.

Edited January 1, 2012 by seeker720

[midasthailand]

335 were good, 37 were a little naughty and 28 were bad.

Seven percent go bad would be my wording......reason because I said so!

[bangkaew]

I would say go but I have a feeling it should be goes because 7% is deemed singular.

eg. countries go to war. Bob goes to war.

[Lodestone]

As others have said, it's the 7 that matters. Only 1 is singular:

When Susy buys oranges, 0.5 % go bad.

When Susy buys oranges, 0.99 % go bad.

When Susy buys oranges, 1 % goes bad.

When Susy buys oranges, 1.01 % go bad.

When Susy buys oranges, 2 % go bad.

When Susy buys oranges, 7 % go bad.

...

[Tanaka]

7% have gone bad.

I doth most certainly agree.

BTW, does anyone have Susie's phone number? All those ripe, plump, juicy...oranges...

I do. But I am not giving it out. I want her oranges for myself.

[sysardman]

7% have gone bad.

I doth most certainly agree.

BTW, does anyone have Susie's phone number? All those ripe, plump, juicy...oranges...

I do. But I am not giving it out. I want her oranges for myself.

I did suggest 'have gone bad' in post #8 (now on post #37).

I wouldn't waste my time with Suzie(or Suzy) if I were you, she's obviously got some kind of orange fetish, why else would she buy 400 oranges. She might also want to change her greengrocer if that many have gone bad.

[Scott]

BTW, does anyone have Susie's phone number? All those ripe, plump, juicy...oranges...

Susie's phone number ....goes....to the person with the best answer!

[tolstoy]

7% couldn't be the subject as it modifies the actual subject.

Use MLA or APA book as it gives specific ways to use percentages in presenting research.

Jephries "The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct."

??? read this again.??? we goes.??? goes is a singular entity.

[rijb]

With words that indicate portions—percent, fraction, part, majority, some, all, none, remainder, and so forth —look at the noun in your of phrase (object of the preposition) to determine whether to use a singular or plural verb.

If the object of the preposition is singular, use a singular verb. If the object of the preposition is plural, use a plural verb.

Examples:


Fifty percent of the pie has disappeared.
 Pie is the object of the preposition of.


Fifty percent of the pies have disappeared.
 Pies is the object of the preposition.


(see diagram)

Edited January 3, 2012 by rijb

[attrayant]

"Seven percent go bad" is correct.

Explanation: Obviously, seven percent of the oranges have gone bad, meaning more than one orange.

While I agree on the correct answer, your reasoning troubles me. What if there are 700 oranges? 7% would be a quantity of one, but "seven percent go bad" would still be correct. We shouldn't have to do math to determine which usage applies.

[Scott]

Everyone's input on the last question was greatly appreciated, so here comes another one. We have a Thai English Teacher and her supervisor in a muddle over this grammar question. It concerns a singing group named The New Sounds. The question is what is the right answer:

How was/were The New Sounds?

Since I get stuck in the middle of these, your explanations--which I have them read are most welcomed and stimulating.

[lonexpat]

It differs between American and British English. American English uses a singular collective so would use was. British English is normally used in the plural collective and would use were. As in how was the family ( it )? How were the family (they)?

[sirchai]

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

Are the oranges from America, or England?

Considering the given question, I'd choose 7% go bad......

[sirchai]

Everyone's input on the last question was greatly appreciated, so here comes another one. We have a Thai English Teacher and her supervisor in a muddle over this grammar question. It concerns a singing group named The New Sounds. The question is what is the right answer:

How was/were The New Sounds?

Since I get stuck in the middle of these, your explanations--which I have them read are most welcomed and stimulating.

How was the new sound? How were the new sounds?

Here's another one> Would you say: If I was you, or: If I were you? It's pretty often used the wrong way. Even the online Grammar police will tell you to use it wrong. If I was you. But you can't say that. But why?

If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to answer the question....

Edited February 7, 2012 by sirchai

[rijb]

It differs between American and British English. American English uses a singular collective so would use was. British English is normally used in the plural collective and would use were. As in how was the family ( it )? How were the family (they)?

I agree. Good example

[marty147]

Nothing to do with British versus American usage.

Both uses are correct depending upon your intention.

The difference is whether you are referring to the individual menbers of a group or the group as a whole.

Eg:

The team was tired after the game. (the whole team as a single group)

The team were tired after the game. (each individual member of the team)

[lonexpat]

Marty 147, I understand what you"re saying and agree with you whole heartedly but a similar situation came up recently. In my experience you will rarely hear a British person use was when it comes to collective nouns. Liverpool was the best team. Everyone I know would say Liverpool were the best team whereas the Americans say Liverpool was the best team.

[Scott]

Thanks for the replies thus far. It has been very helpful and has averted a major loss of face by two Thai staff who now appreciate some of the nuances and complexities of grammar--from native speakers. Both are vindicated to some extent. Their difficulty is that the statement is actually in the student's workbook (No teacher's book, so no 'definitive' answer available).

[marty147]

Marty 147, I understand what you"re saying and agree with you whole heartedly but a similar situation came up recently. In my experience you will rarely hear a British person use was when it comes to collective nouns. Liverpool was the best team. Everyone I know would say Liverpool were the best team whereas the Americans say Liverpool was the best team.

A good grammar book would be invaluable in this instance to avoid championing rules based on personal experience.

A great book that I always refer to is "Practical English Usage" by Michael Swan. He is widely acknowledged as one of the great grammar gurus.

This is his opinion: In British English, singular words like family, team, government, which refer to groups of people, can have either singular or plural verbs and pronouns. The team is/are going to lose.

Edited February 7, 2012 by marty147

[rijb]

Linguistic nitpicker William Safire says writers should “go with the natural sound of the language. If the team name ends in s, go with the plural verb…. If not, construe it as singular.”

http://lisakusko.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/how-the-miami-heat-upset-the-grammar-world/

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/radio/podcasts/grammar_grater/archive/2008/01/17/

[lonexpat]

I consider both to be correct because that"s what I"ve been taught. Please don"t ask for a link. People of my age are sometimes illiterate when it comes to computers. Actually, he was an American. His opinion was the use of singular, collective nouns was incorrect. How was a person to know wheather an individual or a group were the subject of a statement?. Change the sentence from the team to the players and there"s only one answer. Grammar rules are byfar some of the hardest rules to explain. Knowing them to be correct is a lot easier. Again, I"ll go with rijb on this. If it sounds right, it normally is right. To me, were sounds right. To someone else, was sounds right. Same Same but Different.

Edited February 7, 2012 by lonexpat

[sysardman]

Marty 147, I understand what you"re saying and agree with you whole heartedly but a similar situation came up recently. In my experience you will rarely hear a British person use was when it comes to collective nouns. Liverpool was the best team. Everyone I know would say Liverpool were the best team whereas the Americans say Liverpool was the best team.

I don't think anybody would say Liverpool was/were the best team

[Ijustwannateach]

My take: since 'percent' means 'per 100', when you write '7 percent of the oranges' it is another way of saying '7 oranges out of 100 oranges'- so in the case of a countable noun you would use 'go' in the OP example. If it were uncountable you would use the singular form- 8% of the ice cream is strawberry.