Dual Pricing

[steveromagnino]

The sign on the park gate declares a bit more than the dual price (Regardless of whether you pay it or not).

It declares to everyone, and in particular every Thai, that it is acceptable to rip foreigners off. The government are doing it, why shouldn't every Thai business, every Thai/Farang transaction be at a double price.

I think you'll find that foreign students pay the full rate, while local (state) students pay the subsidized rate.

That asside, the issue is not dual pricing in the US, the issue is dual pricing in Thailand. This being a Thailand related web board (as we are so often reminded).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you can't have it both ways! Dual pricing in both countries is exactly the same; surely it could be argued that in both cases (which is the justification usually given) that:

- taxes and or national reasons justify why locals should be able to partake of that attraction (education or otherwise)

- locals cannot afford to pay the full price or have subsidised already

- if someone else is willing to pay the full price, then let's let them (marketing 101, price elasticity)

Full rate vs. subsidised rate.

There are a host of indsutries employing dual pricing:

- insurance (various)

- banks (almost always)

- healthcare

- amusement parks (at least when I was there last - Disney was cheaper for Californians)

- car rental

- ski resorts

- hotels (local only pricing)

So please explain to me in simple logic how a dual price in all of these cases worldwide does not lead me to believe that dual pricing for people aged under 25/non white/elderly/non-local etc etc means that I will rip them off thereafter?

Next argument of the anti dual price... well the rich Thai who has never paid any income tax hasn't subsidised anything anyway, so if I am a local living here paying tax why should I be penalised.. well in most cases already documented in this thread, enforcement is far from consistent. And besides which some foreigners here aren't paying much tax either through various arrangements. Fact is the average wage of locals here is far less than the average tourist visiting the park - check out NESDB income stats and compare to average spend per tourist per day by country to see. So.... clearly there is a cross subsidisation going on with (generally) the richer tourists subsidising the poorer (generally) locals. Yes, exceptions, but then again I was aged under 25 drove like a model citizen, and I couldn't convince the insurance company that they shouldn't charge me 5X more rates. But then again insurance companies did rip me off so maybe you have a point.

Next argument of the anti dual price... but it is 20 times!!!! Ok, now this is a magnitude issue; 20 times is pretty much the same factor for foreign education in NZ - however now we can start talking about what a fair dual price range might be IF we think we have to have it, and that is a conversation I cannot recall ever seeing.

Regarding rip offs for farang; if you are a kee nok farang that knows s&*t about doing business here you deserve to lose your shirt, the same as anyone who tries to do business in a market where they know nothing.

But then again, prattling about all this rubbish on a forum is not going to change anything; I wonder how many of the people who care so strongly about dual pricing have ever:

- made a case to the Tourism Authority

- met with the Governor to discuss

- developed a PR campaign to present to the general Thai public

- met with the Tourism Minister

- offered to work as a volunteer or assist in fund raising to assist in the running of the public parks

A minimal number no doubt... but I would be interested to know....

[sierra01]

[

But then again, prattling about all this rubbish on a forum is not going to change anything; I wonder how many of the people who care so strongly about dual pricing have ever:

- made a case to the Tourism Authority

Complaining about anything in LOS is usually a waste of time.

- met with the Governor to discuss

I'm sure he would find time to talk to you...not.

- developed a PR campaign to present to the general Thai public

Do you want your next visa extention or not?

- met with the Tourism Minister

Ditto the Govenor.

- offered to work as a volunteer or assist in fund raising to assist in the running of the public parks

Don't forget your work permit.

A minimal number no doubt... but I would be interested to know....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[taxexile]

if charging tourists and foriegners 20 times more than locals is the right thing for the thai government to do from a moral viewpoint , then how come the signs displaying these dual prices are nearly always in thai only thereby denying foriegners the knowledge of this practice and enabling them to make an informed choice .

is it mentioned in any publicity coming from the tat , i doubt it.

i firmly believe that most people would not willingly pay if they knew beforehand.

its a different matter pulling up at a park after 4 hours in a minibus or coach , it would be crazy to travel all that way and not go in.

its sleazy guilt ridden hoodwinking by the authorities and goes completely against the grain of the genuine and outstanding welcome promised to tourists here by the authorities.

its two faced , its wrong and it stinks.

[GuestHouse]

Sticking your head up the ring of a Thai policy that discriminates against you might appear to the right thing to do, there is always someone who is willing to engratiate themselves to any kind of abuse.

What have I done about Dual Pricing?

1.Started a website campaigining against the practice of dual in Thailand.

2. Written to the minister of tourism to protest dual pricing.

3. Written to the TAT to bring their attention to the FACT that this something very many foreigners living in Thailand and foreigners visiting Thailand do not like.

4. Frequently written to both the Thai and English Language press to raise awareness on this issue.

5. Written to many of the establishments who are dual pricing to ask that they reconsider their policy.

6 (an only this very morning) Given and interview to a major international newspaper who are about to do a report on Dual Pricing in Thailand.

Meanwhile, let us know what you have done... for anyone other than yourself.

[sriracha john]

Meanwhile, let us know what you have done... for anyone other than yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, he's alledgedly spent time with Miss Thailand...

although that was totally discredited in another thread.

[sierra01]

Sticking your head up the ring of a Thai policy that discriminates against you might appear to the right thing to do, there is always someone who is willing to engratiate themselves to any kind of abuse.

What have I done about Dual Pricing?

1.Started a website campaigining against the practice of dual in Thailand.

2. Written to the minister of tourism to protest dual pricing.

3. Written to the TAT to bring their attention to the FACT that this something very many foreigners living in Thailand and foreigners visiting Thailand do not like.

4. Frequently written to both the Thai and English Language press to raise awareness on this issue.

5. Written to many of the establishments who are dual pricing to ask that they reconsider their policy.

6 (an only this very morning) Given and interview to a major international newspaper who are about to do a report on Dual Pricing in Thailand.

Meanwhile, let us know what you have done... for anyone other than yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a serious response Guesthouse, not a p*ss take. Would you post the responses you've had from your campaign and Govt departments etc please? I too don't like the dual pricing that goes on here, when I realise there are 2 prices I walk away. All the while there are tourists coming here that don't know they're paying far more than Thais, it will continue. I personally think that the Thai people you contact about it will only pay lip service to you, getting the word out to the tourists will have far more effect. The Thai are money mad, when that money starts drying up then they might do something about it. Good luck to you.

[chuchok]

Meanwhile, let us know what you have done... for anyone other than yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, he's alledgedly spent time with Miss Thailand...

although that was totally discredited in another thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did she charge local or foreigner rates?

[GuestHouse]

I too don't like the dual pricing that goes on here, when I realise there are 2 prices I walk away.

You are missing the point.

The dual pricing policy is giving rise to and reinforcing other forms of discrimination. Something you can't walk away from while ever you are in Thailand.

Please think before hitting the send button.... I wish I would sometimes....

I personally think that the Thai people you contact about it will only pay lip service to you, getting the word out to the tourists will have far more effect.

As I said above, I got the message out to a major international publication this morning - and - as anyone who visits my website can see almost 50,000 visitors in the past year.... not bad for getting the word out....

Edited November 28, 2005 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

Hey, he's alledgedly spent time with Miss Thailand...

although that was totally discredited in another thread.

Another Walter Mitty...

[samran]

I've always maintained it is just a crude form of normal economic behaviour. Read on if you want: (from this economics site)

Price Discrimination

A monopolist may be able to engage in a policy of price discrimination. This occurs when a firm charges a different price to different groups of consumers for an identical good or service, for reasons not associated with the costs of production. It is important to stress that charging different prices for similar goods is not price discrimination. For example, price discrimination does not does not occur when a rail company charges a higher price for a first class seat. This is because the price premium over a second-class seat can be explained by differences in the cost of providing the service.

CONDITIONS REQUIRED FOR PRICE DISCRIMINATION TO WORK

There are basically three main conditions required for price discrimination to take place.

Monopoly power

Firms must have some price setting power - so we don't see price discrimination in perfectly competitive markets.

Elasticity of demand

There must be a different price elasticity of demand for the product from each group of consumers. This allows the firm to extract consumer surplus by varying the price leading to additional revenue and profit.

Separation of the market

The firm must be able to split the market into different sub-groups of consumers and then prevent the good or service being resold between consumers. (For example a rail operator must make it impossible for someone paying a "cheap fare" to resell to someone expected to pay a higher fare. This is easier in the provision of services rather than goods.

The costs of separating the market and selling to different sub-groups (or market segments) must not be prohibitive.

Examples of price discrimination

There are numerous good examples of discriminatory pricing policies. We must be careful to distinguish between discrimination (based on consumer's willingness to pay) and product differentiation - where price differences might also reflect a different quality or standard of service.

Some examples worth considering include:

Cinemas and theatres cutting prices to attract younger and older audiences

Student discounts for rail travel, restaurant meals and holidays

Car rental firms cutting prices at weekends

Hotels offering cheap weekend breaks and winter discounts

The aims of price discrimination

It must be remembered that the main aim of price discrimination is to increase the total revenue and/or profits of the supplier! It helps them to off-load excess capacity and can also be used as a technique to take market share away from rival firms.

Some consumers do benefit from this type of pricing - they are "priced into the market" when with one price they might not have been able to afford a product. For most consumers however the price they pay reflects pretty closely what they are willing to pay. In this respect, price discrimination seeks to extract consumer surplus and turn it into producer surplus (or monopoly profit).

[sierra01]

Guesthouse, walking away is my little way of telling them where to put their dual prices, am I wrong to walk away? Yes it's creating other forms of discrimination but if we all just merrily pay up then that certainly reinforces the other forms. Refusing to pay is a starting point to telling them we don't like it, something to work from.

Congratulations on number 6, that will reach the tourists. What response have you had from numbers 2-5? The website, 50,000hits, sounds impressive. How many of that 50,000 will actually do something about the dual pricing, not come here, refuse to pay and go somewhere else etc?

I'm NOT knocking what you're trying to do, but please don't criticize me for 'missing the point', If everyone just walked away that would be a strong message.

[GuestHouse]

Sierra, noted and no you are certainly not wrong for walking away, would that a few others did.

Samram.

The hole in the simple price discrimination argument is the fact that the discrimination is a) based on race/nationality and conducted under the subdifuge of language.

But, I do not agree that market forces play a part. Publicizing the practice is taking part in normal ecconomic activity - letting would be customers know what is going on and providing them with information to make their choice.

[samran]

Sierra, noted and no you are certainly not wrong for walking away, would that a few others did.

Samram.

The hole in the simple price discrimination argument is the fact that the discrimination is a) based on race/nationality and conducted under the subdifuge of language.

But, I do not agree that market forces play a part. Publicizing the practice is taking part in normal ecconomic activity - letting would be customers know what is going on and providing them with information to make their choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh, but you see guesthouse.. I never said that there were market forces at play here. All I said was that is was normal economics. In actual fact, there is no market. There is only a monopolist.

Economics 101 says that a monopolist will act in a certain manner to try and profit maximise. The main way it does this is to charge people what they are willing to pay not what the market dictates (as there is no "market" of alternate sellers to dictate the price). History has proven time and again that a monopolist will do anything to squeeze every last possible cent out of a consumer. What the a Thai national park is doing is pure economics.

On average, your average Thai earns less than the average farang, so their willingness to pay on average will be lower. Hence, they score the lower price.

Sure, the national parks people could be more sophisticated in determining ones ability to pay (eg..show us last years tax return), but that would be too difficult to administer. Instead, they rely on the very crude local versus foreigner tool, based on the simple but usually correct assumption, that if you have come half way across the world, then an extra 200 baht is going to mean less to you than it would otherwise (look up diminishing marginal utility of income).

[samran]

As an addendum. From an economics perspective, I actually don't mind concept of paying according to ones ability. This is done quite frequently in the west as well for all sorts of govenrment services. Eg, if you are a low income earner in the west, the government will usually issue with some sort of card that will give you access to subsidised government services.

However, the Thai government simply is not in the position to provide a set of services (and sets if ID's) that say a Department of Workplace and Pesions could in the UK, or a Department of Social Services could in Australia.

The best compromise I think you should campaign for given the Thai governments real inability to bring about a set of comprehensive changes (I used to work for them - and they really don't have as much money as you think) is to provide a practical solution. That solution could simply be that all Thai residents (as proven by a WP, long term visa, Tax ID or Thai ID) get a local price and others don't. All that would require would be the printing of a bunch of new signs.

[bachismo]

Really depends on the National Park. Ko Samet requires only a simple explanation to the guard - no paperwork. Ko Chang will require showing your work permit, and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation (from my experience). Most of the other national parks will vary as well.

[sriracha john]

It does point up to the fact that just as one may experience a certain policy at one park, someone else has a totally different experience at another. That's because there's no uniformity it the national park policies.

The Samet policy you describe may be common, but for other places *Thailand has many, many national parks besides the handful of the common farang ones*, it's more a case of it being the same at some parks on some days to some people.

It is this disparity and it's accompanying incoherent policy implementation that leads logically to charges of racism.

It's easy enough to resolve it, but to date, Thailand hasn't shown the resolve to do so.

edit... not really "a nice story" with a good ending if it just adds to the uneven implementation of a stated policy. Certainly, it may have been "a nice story" with a good ending for you, but it's not for the program itself, overall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really depends on the National Park.  Ko Samet requires only a simple explanation to the guard - no paperwork.  Ko Chang will require showing your work permit, and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation (from my experience).  Most of the other national parks will vary as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

same same

[samran]

Really depends on the National Park.  Ko Samet requires only a simple explanation to the guard - no paperwork.  Ko Chang will require showing your work permit, and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation (from my experience).  Most of the other national parks will vary as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

erawan always let me in for the thai price without asking for ID, and I certainly don't look Thai.

[Jai Dee]

...and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation...

I visited Erawan last year, and paid Thai price by presenting my Work Permit.

[thaihome]

When you find it, report it FairPrice-Thailand.org

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's people where I work in Bangkok who get 4 times the amount that locals get for the same job. Oh...hang on, I'm one of them. Better not correct that unfair pricing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put, but I notice ignored by most.

TH

[chuchok]

...and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation...

I visited Erawan last year, and paid Thai price by presenting my Work Permit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine JD, but what about the people that have retired here.They are not always wealthy and have no work permit.

[Jai Dee]

...and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation...

I visited Erawan last year, and paid Thai price by presenting my Work Permit.

That's fine JD, but what about the people that have retired here.They are not always wealthy and have no work permit.

I understand Chuchok... I don't really have an answer for that one.

My argument has always been "If I am paying Thai tax, and Social Security, I should be entitled to the same discounted rate as the Thais", and this argument has always been successful.

When I do finally decide to retire (and Thailand is my country of choice at the moment), I will be in the same predicament. What options will there be? Will there be any different options then?

Thanks for smacking that smugness out of me... I need it every now and then to help me think outside the sphere.

[samran]

...and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation...

I visited Erawan last year, and paid Thai price by presenting my Work Permit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine JD, but what about the people that have retired here.They are not always wealthy and have no work permit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone may be able to correct me if I am wrong (eg Sunbelt), but I am pretty sure you can get a Tax ID card without a work permit, as there are many sources of taxable income that don't involve work (eg investments, rental property). If you can get you hands on one of those then things may be a bit easier.

[greenwanderer108]

The hole in the simple price discrimination argument is the fact that the discrimination is a) based on race/nationality and conducted under the subdifuge of language.

When I first came to Thailand four years ago, my Thai was very basic and I was just starting to read. I still hadn't grasped the numbers and for that reason, ended up paying the 'entrance fee 30 baht' for a few of the temples in Ayutthaya instead of the ค่าเข้า ๕ บาท. It was these entrance fee signs, which motivated and coerced me to memorize the numbers, as it made it practicle.

Interesting debate as their is points on both sides here.

If you want the Thai government to reconsider its policies, perhaps you can also protest to your own governments' discriminating policies against Thais and non-rich Asians in general, particularly financial selective migration.

In other words, any Joe, John, or Bob can come to Thailand on an automatic 30 day visa by simply buying an air ticket. But if Chai, Chang, or Champ want to go to go to the west, they got to provide a ridiculous bank statement that perhaps Joe John, or Bob wouldn't even be able to provide, as our embassies hold an automatic standard (discriminate) that a Thai applying for a visa is either A. working in the sex trade or B. Planning to migrate eternally (unless he/she can prove otherwise with a bank statement, etc.) Then again, someone English or Australlian is almost garunteed a visa to the states on first application without the same standards and requirements.

Just think how it would be if Thai consulates held such standards to us farang, and didn't have such requirements for say, Japanese and Koreans when we applying for a Thai visa.

While it may seem that it's the Thais milking the foreigners for every satang, consider how many of us foreigners set such standards right here in Thailand that might make Thai's attitudes/policies justifiable.

If the average Thai wants to study English with a foreigner, he she must pay an entire days salary to study one hour. On the flip side, if the average foreigner wants to study Thai with a Thai, he/she would only have to pay an hours salary to study an entire day...or something like that.

[meemiathai]

Just think how it would be if Thai consulates held such standards to us farang, and didn't have such requirements for say, Japanese and Koreans when we applying for a Thai visa.

But I thought you knew that "They need us FARANGS badly for the money!!!"already!

[Neeranam]

When I first came to Thailand four years ago, my Thai was very basic and I was just starting to read. I still hadn't grasped the numbers and for that reason, ended up paying the 'entrance fee 30 baht' for a few of the temples in Ayutthaya instead of the ค่าเข้า ๕ บาท. It was these entrance fee signs, which motivated and coerced me to memorize the numbers, as it made it practicle.

I thought you were half Thai - don't you have a Thai passport?

In other words, any Joe, John, or Bob can come to Thailand on an automatic 30 day visa by simply buying an air ticket. But if Chai, Chang, or Champ want to go to go to the west, they got to provide a ridiculous bank statement that perhaps Joe John, or Bob wouldn't even be able to provide, as our embassies hold an automatic standard (discriminate) that a Thai applying for a visa is either A. working in the sex trade or B. Planning to migrate eternally (unless he/she can prove otherwise with a bank statement, etc.) Then again, someone English or Australlian is almost garunteed a visa to the states on first application without the same standards and requirements.

If Chai, Chang and Champ don't have to show a bank statement, half of my province would be going to the west and many of them would overstay. They would have the chance to earn 20 times more money than they do in Thailand.

If Thailand paid the average westerner 20 times what they got paid, do you think the government would have the same policy of no bank statement required?

For example - Somchai gets paid 5,000 baht per month for his work in Thailand. He goes to the UK and marries a local lass. He gets a job there paying the minimum wage. He is getting 5,000 baht a week now!

Hamish gets paid the equivalent of 200,000 baht in the UK. He sacrifices this to get a job in Thailand, where his wife comes from, for a fraction of this. He lives on 20,000 baht a month and yet has to show that he spends 40,000 just to get a visa.

Thais think that they are cleverer than the farang. it is almost like a national pastime - scam the farang. The standards of living are SO different, most Thai people can't understand.

On channel 3 this morning there was a woman going on about how Thai people are clever compared to the farang. Secretly she would love to marry one, but she might get looked on as a whore. She was the typical Thai entertainer who is resenful at 'stupid' farang. They come here and they throw their money around, leaving a tip of 20 baht for a taxi-driver! Crazy! That is equivalent to a Thai going to London and leaving a tip of 20 pounds. Think of it this way and you might realise why Thais think that we are all loaded or stupid or both.

I know many Thais who have studied and/or worked in England. None of them come back here skint. They are all made for life with the savings they got there in an average of 10 years. If people could come to Thailand and work for 10 years then retire to their home country, without ever having to work again, but they had to speak Thai, what price would it be for Thai lessons?

our embassies hold an automatic standard (discriminate) that a Thai applying for a visa is either A. working in the sex trade or B. Planning to migrate eternally (unless he/she can prove otherwise with a bank statement, etc.)

This is usually the case if someone hasn't got the funds in the bank!

For a Thai to be able to go to the Uk for a 2 week holiday, they must be ridiculously rich, so no problem for all the guys I know who go there. For a Westerner to come to thailand for a 2 week holiday, they don't have to be rich. This is a simple fact - accept it, unlike many Thai people.

The average Thai person is good, but when you give him lots of rich people who don't know the value of the money, they are bound to get a bit greedy.

Really interesting what the local Isaan people say about young girls who go to Pattaya to sell their bodies - "it's normal, they are winning a jackpot".

QUOTE(robitusson @ 2005-11-28 11:51:01)

QUOTE(GuestHouse @ 2005-11-28 02:34:51)

When you find it, report it FairPrice-Thailand.org

*

There's people where I work in Bangkok who get 4 times the amount that locals get for the same job. Oh...hang on, I'm one of them. Better not correct that unfair pricing.

*

You are a teacher, right?

A native speaker is not doing the same job as a local.

I can't think of any job in Thailand where the farang gets paid more than the local for doing the same thing.

Christ, I want a job as a taxi driver, but I can't do it - why not?

I want to work in my wife's restaurant, but I can't do it - why not?

There are lots of things about Thailand that I could moan about, but in the end the advantages outweigh them by far.

The dual pricing is not too important, but the subsequent thoughts of the Thai population are. I was in a car crash last week and they were trying to put the blame on me, even the police.

Thai people are always the winners whether they go to farangland, or farang come to Thailand. The moaners are the ones who can't partake or get a pice of the pie.

I have met a few guys who complain about the dual pricing while leaving ridiculous tips at restaurant, in taxis etc. Please if you are coming to Thailand read about the culture regarding tips, you make us easy targets.

[taxexile]

spot on neerenram , great post , except your calculation re. minimum wage , its round about 380baht an hour , so for a 40 hour week , it works out at about 60,000 baht a month.

[meemiathai]

In other words, any Joe, John, or Bob can come to Thailand on an automatic 30 day visa by simply buying an air ticket. But if Chai, Chang, or Champ want to go to go to the west, they got to provide a ridiculous bank statement that perhaps Joe John, or Bob wouldn't even be able to provide, as our embassies hold an automatic standard (discriminate) that a Thai applying for a visa is either A. working in the sex trade or B. Planning to migrate eternally (unless he/she can prove otherwise with a bank statement, etc.) Then again, someone English or Australlian is almost garunteed a visa to the states on first application without the same standards and requirements.

Me and my Thai wife will be(hopefully, if she does get her visas!) flying to London in Jan. and a week in Italy.

I paid already baht50,000 for the flight and 700 British pounds for hotels. And if my wife doesn't get the visas she needs, we're going to lose all that money!

And the entrance fee(visa fee) alone for the UK national park is over baht 3,500(equivalent the amount of more than 15 times entrance fee to Thai national parks!!!)Oh yes, and not to mention all the fuzz we'd have to go through and that we would have to bow to and be polite at all times to the interviewer just in case he/she doesn't like us!

Do people here who moan about this trivial dual-pricing ever wondered if yourselves deserve that much for what you are earning for a salary?

How much have you paid for the pair of jeans you are wearing? Your pair of Nike shoes? Who are the people behind them? How much do you think they earn? How much have YOU contributed? You want EQUALITY?

Go fight for it against the rich, the powerful! No, but you won't. You are enjoying this bloody system!! But you want more. It's of course easier to squeeze the poor, right?

[meemiathai]

...and Erawan Waterfall in Kanchanaburi will not let a farang looking person in for the Thai price regardless of documentation...

I visited Erawan last year, and paid Thai price by presenting my Work Permit.

That's fine JD, but what about the people that have retired here.They are not always wealthy and have no work permit.

Go retire in Tokyo or New York!

[greenwanderer108]

I thought you were half Thai - don't you have a Thai passport?

Not all half Thais are Thai nationals/citizens. My Thai mother was naturalized in the US 10 years before I was born. I came to Thailand the first time when I was 17/18, six years after my mother passed away.

I'm on a one year Non-o visa. For me to get Thai nationality is too much hassle regarding paper work, DNA tests, and not to mention the requirement of mandatory military service.

If Chai, Chang and Champ don't have to show a bank statement, half of my province would be going to the west and many of them would overstay. They would have the chance to earn 20 times more money than they do in Thailand.

If Thailand paid the average westerner 20 times what they got paid, do you think the government would have the same policy of no bank statement required?

How many westerners come here and overstay?

For example - Somchai gets paid 5,000 baht per month for his work in Thailand. He goes to the UK and marries a local lass. He gets a job there paying the minimum wage. He is getting 5,000 baht a week now!

Hamish gets paid the equivalent of 200,000 baht in the UK. He sacrifices this to get a job in Thailand, where his wife comes from, for a fraction of this. He lives on 20,000 baht a month and yet has to show that he spends 40,000 just to get a visa.

You forgot about the cost of living. Even though the standard of living would be higher, the cost of living is also much higher. You think a Thai or anyone on that matter can survive alone (atleast in the states) on minimum wage? In Colorado the minimum wage is like six bucks (250 baht) So if Somchai was making 250 baht a day in Thailand which would work out to 4-5000 baht a month, he could still survive on his own with the basic necessities i.e. 2000 baht room, food, transportation. If he went to work in Colorado for 250-300 baht an hour, full time, he'd only pull in 1000-1500 bucks a month tops. The average non-subsidized apartment in Colorado is 7-800 bucks, and that's for one room studio, which is quite rare. Food and transportation is another story.

Really the only way to make good money in the states is if you already own your own house/car, or share with 3 or 4 roomates. Not to mention, making atleast four times the minimum wage to compensate for the high cost of living.

I know many Thais who have studied and/or worked in England. None of them come back here skint. They are all made for life with the savings they got there in an average of 10 years.

These Thais who can retire after 10 years of savings definately weren't working minimum wage jobs and probably didn't have a family to support either.

It's possible to work in Thailand for 10 years on say even 30k/month and save enough to retire comfortably in the country here.

This is usually the case if someone hasn't got the funds in the bank!

For a Thai to be able to go to the Uk for a 2 week holiday, they must be ridiculously rich, so no problem for all the guys I know who go there. For a Westerner to come to thailand for a 2 week holiday, they don't have to be rich. This is a simple fact - accept it, unlike many Thai people.

My English friend who is married to a Phillipino girl here in Thailand, whom have a one year old son together (with UK passport) just got denied a visitors visa to the UK for his wife. They were simply wanting to visit his parents/family for Christmas. Both work in Thailand. Aparently there UK and Thai bank statements didn't meet the requirement for a two weeks holiday or so was the reason for denial. Altogether, he had nearly 20,000 pounds to account for in UK and Thai accounts. How much do you really need for two weeks holiday? He obviously has a family there so they wouldn't be needing to rent out Bukhimham Palace.

I understand embassies have their protocal and reasons for it, but the bottom line is they do discriminate. And whether most of the time it may be justified for whatever social-economical reasons of the Western governments, it's discrimination none-the-less and contributes to the attitudes of Thai foreign-policy here.

[meemiathai]

My English friend who is married to a Phillipino girl here in Thailand, whom have a one year old son together (with UK passport) just got denied a visitors visa to the UK for his wife. They were simply wanting to visit his parents/family for Christmas. Both work in Thailand. Aparently there UK and Thai bank statements didn't meet the requirement for a two weeks holiday or so was the reason for denial. Altogether, he had nearly 20,000 pounds to account for in UK and Thai accounts. How much do you really need for two weeks holiday? He obviously has a family there so they wouldn't be needing to rent out Bukhimham Palace.

YOU ARE SCARING ME WITH THIS!