The Undocumented Dangers Of Thailand's Roads

[Grumbles]

At the end of the day, if people want to come on holiday to Thailand (or anywhere else for that matter), all the government warnings in the world won't make a difference to 95% of the people. It's human nature. One more rather cynical factor, why would you believe any thing a government has to say - we know they are compulsive liars.

[vahack]

The best thing our mothers can do is remind the Thais of this – I know they are determined to do it.

that's not in any part true. i can't believe that is in the copy of the article rather than a quote.

reminding Thais of anything is arrogant and a waste of time. a bunch of grieving western mothers are not going to change Thailand. there are way more Thai mothers that have bigger problems - like feeding and educating their own kids. Thais know the dangers of the road. there's a road accident picture on the bottom of every newspaper every day. its part of life in Thailand.

the "best thing" they can do is publicize the dangers of Thai roads in farangland and pressure the various state departments to issue road travel warnings.

if i went to Somalia and got shot and robbed by a bunch of teens i wouldn't expect my relatives or government to start a crusade in Somalia to stop teen crime. that is stupidity. know the country in which you are visiting.

[sysardman]

I feel desperately sorry for the parents BUT trying to change driving attitudes here is an uphill, if not impossible battle.

This is not the UK with its many rules and regulations. In the big scheme of things, I would say the average Thai is more concerned about the things that matter to them eg. sorting out the floods, having a stable government etc etc.

It is all very well saying how bad the roads are here while sitting in London, but this is not London....priorities are different here.

The best they can hope for (as someone else said) is to encourage the UK government to put warnings on Foreign Office website and for travellers to be educated about the dangers.

Travellers should be made aware that safety standards are not as high as the UK and won't be for a long time.

Would have to say from my time here that the average Thai is only concerned with eating, having fun and collecting Buddhist amulets - in that order.

Of course the Buddhist amulets are what make them immortal when they're driving!!!

[osiboy]

Here is why nothing will be done: NOBODY CARES!! very simple. there is complete apathy about pretty much anything here. Something as seemingly simple as getting information of how your children died takes forever with no answers at all???!!!

This is what kind of country it is. Love it or leave it? NO! Everyone has a right as citizens or visitors to get basic human rights..you can disagree if you want.

From the simplest things to the most complicated, Thailand does NOT care.

if a farang/tourist is involved in an accident in which a thai is killed , we are asked/expected to pay around 250,000b per life lost, if thai kills farang,..........the thais dont pay anything over what their insurance company will pay IF they are insured, ...so even though thais put little value on their own lives,....... ours are completely worthless in comparison ! , make sure your travel insurance will cover you if you intend to drive here , ..... it will always be the farangs fault for "just being in thailand " !! thais will never follow the rules unless you hit them where it hurts most,.......... their pockets !

[osiboy]

Here is why nothing will be done: NOBODY CARES!! very simple. there is complete apathy about pretty much anything here. Something as seemingly simple as getting information of how your children died takes forever with no answers at all???!!!

This is what kind of country it is. Love it or leave it? NO! Everyone has a right as citizens or visitors to get basic human rights..you can disagree if you want.

From the simplest things to the most complicated, Thailand does NOT care.

if a farang/tourist is involved in an accident in which a thai is killed , we are asked/expected to pay around 250,000b per life lost, if thai kills farang,..........the thais dont pay anything over what their insurance company will pay IF they are insured, ...so even though thais put little value on their own lives,....... ours are completely worthless in comparison ! , make sure your travel insurance will cover you if you intend to drive here , ..... it will always be the farangs fault for "just being in thailand " !! thais will never follow the rules unless you hit them where it hurts most,.......... their pockets !, and the police will always be on the side of the thais as they will be waiting for their cut too.

Edited December 29, 2011 by osiboy

[BookMan]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.

At 19, most parents have long given up 'allowing' their children to do what they want.

[Grumbles]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.

I don't know if you have had any 19 year old boys of your own, but these days if they have the money to pay for their trip, there is nothing the parents can legally do to stop them. Sure they can advise against it if they feel inclined, but the kids can just as easily ignore the advice (and they usually do).

I think 'slightly irresponsible' is a bit harsh personally.

Once again I'd like to offer my sympathy to the famailies of these kids.

[ludditeman]

if a farang/tourist is involved in an accident in which a thai is killed , we are asked/expected to pay around 250,000b per life lost, if thai kills farang,..........the thais dont pay anything over what their insurance company will pay IF they are insured, ...so even though thais put little value on their own lives,....... ours are completely worthless in comparison ! , make sure your travel insurance will cover you if you intend to drive here , ..... it will always be the farangs fault for "just being in thailand " !! thais will never follow the rules unless you hit them where it hurts most,.......... their pockets !

I'm sorry, but this is just not true.

Thailand is a feudal society where the rich supposedly take care of the poor.

The rich insured car driver (of any nationality) takes car of the poor uninsured m/c driver, it's just the way it works.

[ludditeman]

oops

Edited December 29, 2011 by ludditeman

[hellodolly]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.

Glad your not my Daddy I was married at 19.

At 19 it is a little old to be telling your kids to wash behind their ears.

[spirit47]

Thank for the Mothers, hope this will change something.

There are a few Bus companies are good, I think the NCA company is a good one.

The colorful buses, mostly make from trash and plast are dangerous, than better take the Blue offical Buses, going anywhere. Never go by Van, if your taxi driver is terrible, stop it and take another one.

Some places are a pool for trash taxis, if there standing a lot, it's sometimes better to walk a bit and look on the road for stop one.

Better go on day, than in the night, in the night, the roads are ful of drunken drivers, trucks and motorcycles with no backlight. Don't forget holes in some roads you damage your car, and fly away with motorcycle. Now, if I must drive in the night, I going with 70 Km/h on dark roads. Some Highways, mostly around Bangkok are dangerous arenas, I prefer to go smaller roads on the Land, relaxed driving.

[softgeorge]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.

Just when do you suggest it is the right time to allow the little birds to leave the nest? How far can a 19 yr old venture from mums apron? A 19 yr old is a young adult, they can vote, drive and drink if they want. Would you consider it bad parenting for your 19 yr old to choose a career in the military and let them go off to Afganistan with a group of similar lads? Some times you just have to let go and that doesn't make you a bad or irresponsible parent.

Yes I agree with you it is sad that they lost thier lives but that is no fault of the parents.

Edited December 29, 2011 by softgeorge

[goodguy]

Only today on one of the most dangerous areas in Thailand. Seven Buses in two years, numerous daily deaths, they now have a new peculiar way to turn left. You may be driving straight ahead, in lane, not too fast, then, the idiot behind you, overtakes you and turns left in front of you, causing you to brake. This week, around 15 times, today was twice on the way home. It pays to invest and check you brakes are in top condition, because, the Thai's almost certainly are not.

[sysardman]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.

I don't know if you have had any 19 year old boys of your own, but these days if they have the money to pay for their trip, there is nothing the parents can legally do to stop them. Sure they can advise against it if they feel inclined, but the kids can just as easily ignore the advice (and they usually do).

I think 'slightly irresponsible' is a bit harsh personally.

Once again I'd like to offer my sympathy to the famailies of these kids.

I'm sure many of the TV members in Pattaya have had 19 year old boys (sorry couldn't resist that)

It's obvious that some of the posters don't read previous posts because I for one stated that the boys were in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's teenagers getting killed on adventure holidays no matter how well supervised and safety checked the companies are. We all take risks everytime we get out of bed in the morning (that's why I don't get up till afternoon). These lads could have been killed in any place in the world - would the parents have tried to stop them going skiing in Switzerland? or going to a youth camp on some island in Norway. Nobody can predict things like avalanches or a lunatic gunman going on the rampage. Sure Thailand is full of dangers but would those lads have wanted to come here if it wasn't - boys will be boys.

[khaan]

in the channel for documentary they showed people building " hand built buses "

without diagrams or plans...... and they talked about " pirate buses "

why don't the police check these things when they pass through the numerous police

checkpoints?

there is only one way to travel by bus safely in Thailand and that is this way:-

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

And what makes you think their drivers have more knowledge and actual road safety education?

well firstly I have used them many times and just by observing the consistency in the way all their drivers

behave e.g not taking unnecessary risks when overtaking.

Secondly even though it is written in Thai in paragraph 2 on this web page they actually explain

how their drivers must meet a higher standard of training than other Thai bus drivers.

http://www.nca.co.th/qulity.php

Thirdly I have never actually heard of any of their buses being involved in accidents ( though

they may be incidents from the past ) .

[canardo]

Better take a train, if you are short on budget, or fly, what is rather cheap as well! Busses and mini busses is kind of a Russian Roulette...

Unless of course, you get a moronic driver trying to beat the train at a level crossing which subsequently dis-rails two carriages causing injuries to over 120 people !!!

EDIT: Take a plane!

[canardo]

The issue is not the roads but the users...

Thailand, the hub of potholes. I've even seen a tree growing throw a recently tarmced road. However the drivers are worse than the roads.

Totally agree, especially for motorcycle riders, the street conditions suck extreme!

[impulse]

Before people get on their high horses trying to make out that every thing is good in the West consider that US road fatalities have only dropped below 40,000 per year in two years since 2000

Perhaps true, but the meaningful statistic is accidents, injuries and fatalities PER 100 MILLION MILES DRIVEN, not the total number.

[JohnAllan]

Perhaps this needs Thai foreign residents to write to the foreign papers letters sections warning holidaymakers that, in blunt terms, 90% of Thais cannot drive. And 90% of bus drivers are F1 drivers with a dinky car licence.

[travelman6]

Having lived in Thailand for over 2 years, and traveled more than 32 countries and driven in 20 different countries, I can say from experience that Thailand has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I am really very surprised that the death toll on the highways is not MUCH higher. I get the impression that most Thai drivers have no idea what the traffic laws are.

[tokachinter]

in the channel for documentary they showed people building " hand built buses "

without diagrams or plans...... and they talked about " pirate buses "

why don't the police check these things when they pass through the numerous police

checkpoints?

there is only one way to travel by bus safely in Thailand and that is this way:-

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

And what makes you think their drivers have more knowledge and actual road safety education?

well firstly I have used them many times and just by observing the consistency in the way all their drivers

behave e.g not taking unnecessary risks when overtaking.

Secondly even though it is written in Thai in paragraph 2 on this web page they actually explain

how their drivers must meet a higher standard of training than other Thai bus drivers.

http://www.nca.co.th/qulity.php

Thirdly I have never actually heard of any of their buses being involved in accidents ( though

they may be incidents from the past ) .

My symapthies to the families who tragically lost their sons in the bus incident.

I would like to balance this discussion on Thai buses and drivers a little by seconding Khaan's post about Nakornchai Air's buses and drivers. I have been a frequent visitor to Thailand for about 20 years and have ridden in the good, the bad and the ugly on tthe roads here. I now only travel between cities on NCA buses - about 20 times this year, alone.

The company's whole operation should be a model of how an inter-city bus company should operate.. and not just in Thailand. From their exclusive terminal in Bangkok with internet, massage chairs and coffee shop, etc to their uniformed drivers & (flight) attendants everything (except the speed of the buses) is organised to airline standards. Just one example of this is that, before departure both driver and attendant introduce themselves and give useful information on the route. What's more amazing is, without the lane swerving, sudden braking, etc of other bus companies' drivers, NCA's drivers appear to have some miraculous ability that enables you to reach your destination, more often than not, right on time. Due to the nature and volume of Thai traffic I have no doubt that NCA buses have been involved in road incidents, though like Khaan, I have never seen evidence of this nor had cause to rely on my seatbelt (alwys fitted and in working condition on NCA's buses) while travelling in the them.

I doubt that this post will earn me any discount next time I travel with NCA, but that's okay because the Irsihman inside me has already calculated that when the value of the freely provided fresh food and drinks are included their fares are actually cheaper than the Government buses!

[elwood]

in the channel for documentary they showed people building " hand built buses "

without diagrams or plans...... and they talked about " pirate buses "

why don't the police check these things when they pass through the numerous police

checkpoints?

there is only one way to travel by bus safely in Thailand and that is this way:-

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

And what makes you think their drivers have more knowledge and actual road safety education?

well firstly I have used them many times and just by observing the consistency in the way all their drivers

behave e.g not taking unnecessary risks when overtaking.

Secondly even though it is written in Thai in paragraph 2 on this web page they actually explain

how their drivers must meet a higher standard of training than other Thai bus drivers.

http://www.nca.co.th/qulity.php

Thirdly I have never actually heard of any of their buses being involved in accidents ( though

they may be incidents from the past ) .

My symapthies to the families who tragically lost their sons in the bus incident.

I would like to balance this discussion on Thai buses and drivers a little by seconding Khaan's post about Nakornchai Air's buses and drivers. I have been a frequent visitor to Thailand for about 20 years and have ridden in the good, the bad and the ugly on tthe roads here. I now only travel between cities on NCA buses - about 20 times this year, alone.

The company's whole operation should be a model of how an inter-city bus company should operate.. and not just in Thailand. From their exclusive terminal in Bangkok with internet, massage chairs and coffee shop, etc to their uniformed drivers & (flight) attendants everything (except the speed of the buses) is organised to airline standards. Just one example of this is that, before departure both driver and attendant introduce themselves and give useful information on the route. What's more amazing is, without the lane swerving, sudden braking, etc of other bus companies' drivers, NCA's drivers appear to have some miraculous ability that enables you to reach your destination, more often than not, right on time. Due to the nature and volume of Thai traffic I have no doubt that NCA buses have been involved in road incidents, though like Khaan, I have never seen evidence of this nor had cause to rely on my seatbelt (alwys fitted and in working condition on NCA's buses) while travelling in the them.

I doubt that this post will earn me any discount next time I travel with NCA, but that's okay because the Irsihman inside me has already calculated that when the value of the freely provided fresh food and drinks are included their fares are actually cheaper than the Government buses!

Well said regarding NCA - I too have been using them for a long time, 15 years, and various members of the family for longer than that. I have never, ever, had any problems regarding dangerous driving, and as mentioned, they usually arrive on time too!

Anyway, they must be good, as they are frequently praised on this forum, unusual for a Thai company.

[aussiebebe]

My symapthies to the families lost their children in the crashes, the guide-books could certainly be more explicit in warning about the Thai road-accidents statistics. I've driven in Thailand, mostly Bangkok, for over five years and I think the situation will worsen, sadly; the Bangkok Post's report that the price of NGV will rise dramatically by 9 baht per kg over the coming year will cause even more corners to be cut in terms of maintenance and safety by bus, van and truck operators.

[nong38]

The contruction and maintenace of the Thai roads leaves a lot to be desired. The driving on the roads also leaves a lot to be desired but then what can you expect when there are no driving schools to teach how to use the roads? How many times has car overtaken you to stop suddenly in front of you or turn left? The Thai driving mentality means they have to be first, they are not aware of what is going on around them, they all individuals with their own idea of what driving is all about, they have to be first, until this mind set changes, they start to abide by the proper rules of the road and the police enforce them this will not chnage anytime soon and the roads will remain a very dangerous place. The law it appears applies to everyone else but me.

[khaan]

And what makes you think their drivers have more knowledge and actual road safety education?

well firstly I have used them many times and just by observing the consistency in the way all their drivers

behave e.g not taking unnecessary risks when overtaking.

Secondly even though it is written in Thai in paragraph 2 on this web page they actually explain

how their drivers must meet a higher standard of training than other Thai bus drivers.

http://www.nca.co.th/qulity.php

Thirdly I have never actually heard of any of their buses being involved in accidents ( though

they may be incidents from the past ) .

My symapthies to the families who tragically lost their sons in the bus incident.

I would like to balance this discussion on Thai buses and drivers a little by seconding Khaan's post about Nakornchai Air's buses and drivers. I have been a frequent visitor to Thailand for about 20 years and have ridden in the good, the bad and the ugly on tthe roads here. I now only travel between cities on NCA buses - about 20 times this year, alone.

The company's whole operation should be a model of how an inter-city bus company should operate.. and not just in Thailand. From their exclusive terminal in Bangkok with internet, massage chairs and coffee shop, etc to their uniformed drivers & (flight) attendants everything (except the speed of the buses) is organised to airline standards. Just one example of this is that, before departure both driver and attendant introduce themselves and give useful information on the route. What's more amazing is, without the lane swerving, sudden braking, etc of other bus companies' drivers, NCA's drivers appear to have some miraculous ability that enables you to reach your destination, more often than not, right on time. Due to the nature and volume of Thai traffic I have no doubt that NCA buses have been involved in road incidents, though like Khaan, I have never seen evidence of this nor had cause to rely on my seatbelt (alwys fitted and in working condition on NCA's buses) while travelling in the them.

I doubt that this post will earn me any discount next time I travel with NCA, but that's okay because the Irsihman inside me has already calculated that when the value of the freely provided fresh food and drinks are included their fares are actually cheaper than the Government buses!

Well said regarding NCA - I too have been using them for a long time, 15 years, and various members of the family for longer than that. I have never, ever, had any problems regarding dangerous driving, and as mentioned, they usually arrive on time too!

Anyway, they must be good, as they are frequently praised on this forum, unusual for a Thai company.

and I also like their strict " lights out and videos off " policy after dinner has been served

unlike those other companies who play those extremely irritating videos of Thai slapstick comedy and music

throughout the night

Edited December 29, 2011 by khaan

[KunMatt]

Having lived in Thailand for over 2 years, and traveled more than 32 countries and driven in 20 different countries, I can say from experience that Thailand has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I am really very surprised that the death toll on the highways is not MUCH higher. I get the impression that most Thai drivers have no idea what the traffic laws are.

I doubt very much that the official statistics for road fatalities are even close to the real number. My gf's cousin and two children were recently killed by a drunk in a hit and run head on collision, no ambulance or police came and it was all sorted out by her family in pickup, when the family went to the police station two days later the police didn't even know about it or showed any interest in the matter. When the driver turned himself into the police a few days later and paid them off the "case" was closed. Her family tried to get a lawyer involved but there wasn't even any paperwork on the case with the police. No way these three deaths are included in the national stats. This has to be very common practice, so if nobody official cares how can the national statistics be official?

I witnessed another fatal hit and run last month in Phuket with a young Thai boy, It wasn't even on the news.

[hellodolly]

Having lived in Thailand for over 2 years, and traveled more than 32 countries and driven in 20 different countries, I can say from experience that Thailand has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I am really very surprised that the death toll on the highways is not MUCH higher. I get the impression that most Thai drivers have no idea what the traffic laws are.

Kinda misleading.

I think if you were to be perfectly honest you could say the some of the worst drivers you have ever seen about many of those countries.

Were they third world countries or North America and Europe countries?

The sad part about your post is a lot of the posters here are going to think you are saying Thailand is worse than any other country in the world.

[hellodolly]

Having lived in Thailand for over 2 years, and traveled more than 32 countries and driven in 20 different countries, I can say from experience that Thailand has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I am really very surprised that the death toll on the highways is not MUCH higher. I get the impression that most Thai drivers have no idea what the traffic laws are.

I doubt very much that the official statistics for road fatalities are even close to the real number. My gf's cousin and two children were recently killed by a drunk in a hit and run head on collision, no ambulance or police came and it was all sorted out by her family in pickup, when the family went to the police station two days later the police didn't even know about it or showed any interest in the matter. When the driver turned himself into the police a few days later and paid them off the "case" was closed. Her family tried to get a lawyer involved but there wasn't even any paperwork on the case with the police. No way these three deaths are included in the national stats. This has to be very common practice, so if nobody official cares how can the national statistics be official?

I witnessed another fatal hit and run last month in Phuket with a young Thai boy, It wasn't even on the news.

Let me get this straight it was all sorted out by the family in pickup.

Two days later they go to police

now they are getting a lawyer.

Why I thought it was all sorted out.

You seem to be surrounded by death.

Edited December 29, 2011 by hellodolly

[KunMatt]

Let me get this straight it was all sorted out by the family in pickup.

Two days later they go to police

now they are getting a lawyer.

Why I thought it was all sorted out.

You seem to be surrounded by death.

Yes, which part are you trying to have an issue with?

The three people on a scooter were hit by a drunk who left their bodies in the road to die a slow death, no ambulance or police came, the family found out about it by someone who passed by the scene and told the family that they were lying in the road, the family went there in their pickup and took the bodies to hospital themselves. Next day was a funeral, the day after they went to the police station. After the guy who hit them turned himself in and it was apparent the police were not going to do anything they are trying to get a lawyer.

Which part is confusing you?

[cowslip]

They are documented and they DO tell you.