Speaking English Campaign Is Just A Passing Fad: Thai Opinion

[tlansford]

Having a perfect English "accent" is pretty far down on the C.L.T. (teaching method) list. It's all about communicative ability. Having an all english day makes perfect sence to me.

I don't think learning languages (including English) is just a passing fad.

agreed. completely.

[KarenBravo]

.....but what do you do when the vast majority of Thai English teachers are incompetent and can't pass the exam that they are trying to teach their students to pass?

[tlansford]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

Thank you Buchholz for reminding us that the real purpose of this article is not about discussing the value of teaching the English language but government bashing.

;-) Cheers!

[softgeorge]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

In Thailand English will never be spoken correctly unless it is taught by Thai's. English speaking Farangs are teaching thier children wrong.

How absurd. Your own English needs a little something too. Your second sentence interprets as teachers leading pupils into a life of crime.Much of the posting on this topic here make little sense to me. There is nothing wrong with speaking with an accent indeed one must expect it. BTW Thais have their own accents. I have difficulty in understand Scouse, Geordie or Glaswegian - especially if the speaker has 'had a few.' Two anecdotes. 1. Enjoying a quiet pint in a Birmingham pub after a hectic day at work I became engaged in conversation with a native of Newcastle. He observed that I was not a native of Birmingham (Thank you dear God for that!) and I somewhat sarcastically confirmed that that was the case. His next comment stunned me since I could understand only about every third word he uttered. "Don't they talk funny around here," he said. 2. When working in Savannah, GA at a time when I had disciplined myself to speak 'perceived' English rather than my 'Sarf Londun' patois, the locals regularly informed me that they 'just lurved' my accent. As a matter of routine I retorted that I didn't have one - and they did. I was greatly amused every time as puzzled looks appeared on faces and I could imagine cogs inside heads working out the logic of that. I have been unable to hold a sensible conversation with either of the teachers responsible for teaching English at Thai schools.

I actually got his/her sattire which I think was directed at me, but I do not understand what you are saying. How does being taught english the wrong way lead students into a life of crime. Oh well it's back to english classes for me as I can't even understand written text.

P.S Dot your "i's" and cross your "t's" people because the spelling and grammar police are going to be out in force and ready to jump on you from great hieghts in this topic.

[tlansford]

.....but what do you do when the vast majority of Thai English teachers are incompetent and can't pass the exam that they are trying to teach their students to pass?

better training for Thai teachers and "imports", teachers who are native speakers.

[hanuman2543]

"One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary."

The biggest problem here is the belief of the Thais in the "superiority" of their own race and their xenophobic behaviour. When we look at the many reports about how Cambodians, Laotions or people from Myanmar and foreigners are treated here, then it needs more than some basic English skills to change that. The vast majority of Thais don't believe in that all people are equal and have the same rights.

[softgeorge]

"One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary."

The biggest problem here is the belief of the Thais in the "superiority" of their own race and their xenophobic behaviour. When we look at the many reports about how Cambodians, Laotions or people from Myanmar and foreigners are treated here, then it needs more than some basic English skills to change that. The vast majority of Thais don't believe in that all people are equal and have the same rights.

It may be secondary when it comes to changing attitudes towards other races and cultures and that is an entirely different topic. When it comes to competing on the world stage in economic terms that is a whole different thing. They can hide thier racist thoughts when trying to export rice but you need to be able to tell your customer what it is you are selling.

[mijan24]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

Time to change schools in my opinion matey.

[lannarebirth]

There are many subjects that are taken by students all over the world that probably aren't needed or used.

Thai's are capable of learning English just as well as any other group. The difficulty is that it requires constant, consistent education by reasonably well-qualified teachers.

For Thai learners, the linguistic distance between English and Thai is rather great, different sounds, different alphabet, tonal system etc. .

Interesting.I accept these good points but remain a bit puzzled why China and Vietnam, with no British colonial tradition to build on, remain so more advanced than Thailand in English language skills.The Nation article (one has got used to the rather pointless political slant which hardly seems relevant on this issue) also seems a little confused at first accepting that better teachers are needed and then suggesting that English proficiency is less important than "knowing one's own country" whatever that means.This is just making a dubious virtue out of a necessity.The reality is that Thailand needs urgently to upgrade its English language skills not just to interreact better with ASEAN but also with the wider regional and global community.I am sure I'm not the only one who has attended international conferences where the Thai delegation has been a silent presence.At first I put it down to cultural factors, a natural diffidence.I now believe it's equally about poor English language skills (the Thai accent is not important:personally I find it rather charming).

It's very necessary for Thai students to know about Thailand. Believe it or not, I've had to teach my grade twelve students about the Chao Phraya River, and even basic Thai history. I usually relate topics in our text book to Thailand. The truth is, they really don't know.

Believe it or not. One of the better ways to learn Thai history is to first learn how to speak English.

[mijan24]

.....but what do you do when the vast majority of Thai English teachers are incompetent and can't pass the exam that they are trying to teach their students to pass?

I am not a teacher but I am a native speaker I think your staement means nothing with some concrete evidence.

I think one of the major problems is for the Thai children and the Thai teachers to understand "Why" learning English and other languages eg. Chinese is important - without a motivating factor such as employment, further education etc why should they apply themselves ?

When I was at school we had the opportunity to study french or german no way was the normal catch cry and of course we remained with English and were barren of international language skills how I rue the day when i said "Not for Me' to learning another language.

Edited December 30, 2011 by mijan24

[animatic]

OP= "One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary."

This idea above is faulty.

If Thais learn English it is the one cross border language available in ALL the AAEAN nations.

If they don't seriously learn, practice and apply English, they will have to learn ALL the individual languages for each ASEAN country...

Gee, I wonder which would be easier to do?

At present my preteen daughter speaks 6 languages at various levels.

English and Chinese being right up there with Thai in importance

for her future in an ASEAN regional world.

As to knowing ones country better being the best way to 'building a community with other countries', the idea smacks of the classic jingoist, navel gazing, of the typical Thai school systems up till now. Forget learning how to communicate with others on equal terms, and on an even field, they will just have come and appreciate how great we are all the more.

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic

[ludditeman]

My daughter learns English at her school. One day her English teacher (Thai) came for a home visit.

After "hello, how are you", "I'm fine thank you", that was her English speaking ability finished.

We then continued in Thai.

My friend works as an English teacher, he is from Holland and I can barely understand his English.

What his pupils will sound like is beyond imagination.

To be an effective English teacher, you must first speak English without a strong accent.

Whatever accent you have, will then be added to by the students, like a photocopier, always best to copy from the original.

[animatic]

.....but what do you do when the vast majority of Thai English teachers are incompetent and can't pass the exam that they are trying to teach their students to pass?

I am not a teacher but I am a native speaker I think your staement means nothing with some concrete evidence.

I think one of the major problems is for the Thai children and the Thai teachers to understand "Why" learning English and other languages eg. Chinese is important - without a motivating factor such as employment, further education etc why should they apply themselves ?

When I was at school we had the opportunity to study french or german no way was the normal catch cry and of course we remained with English and were barren of international language skills how I rue the day when i said "Not for Me' to learning another language.

Right, unless you wave the carrot under their nose, they won't move?

So 'telling them they have better opportunities' for a better life if they learn this won't work,

they have to be given the job BEFORE they will actually try to learn?

Too little too late IMO.

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic

[Moruya]

I'm not sure that "fad" is the right word here. It's more governmental hot air - saying it will do something that will benefit the people but not doing the research, planning, funding and implemention of the required programme.

It's a bit like the tablet PCs for children. Back of a fag-packet policies.

[animatic]

"One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary."

The biggest problem here is the belief of the Thais in the "superiority" of their own race and their xenophobic behaviour. When we look at the many reports about how Cambodians, Laotions or people from Myanmar and foreigners are treated here, then it needs more than some basic English skills to change that. The vast majority of Thais don't believe in that all people are equal and have the same rights.

It may be secondary when it comes to changing attitudes towards other races and cultures and that is an entirely different topic. When it comes to competing on the world stage in economic terms that is a whole different thing. They can hide thier racist thoughts when trying to export rice but you need to be able to tell your customer what it is you are selling.

Well that is it right there, if you can't communicate you can't SELL vs competition.

You can only put someone in front of the product and hope they like the price.

IF you can communicate enough to get them in front of your product of course.

80+ years of parochial jingoism to create a single 'Thai People' from a social melange at a crossroads, is now coming back to haunt them through the inevitable isolation it has brought. The kids these days are more open minded to new experiences than the parents, due to the communications age they are growing up in, but it will take more time before THEY can take the controls from the parents generation. Between now and then, Thailand should have a tough haul.

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic

[Stevenredd]

One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary.

Wow. Way to just shoot the whole thing in the foot, simultaneously deny everyone the opportunity and ignore the overwhelming need. I've traveled all over the world, and as much of a lover of language that I am, it is apparent that the world *is* beginning to switch to English as the lingua franca. As a native speaker, I concede that it's a horrible, unwieldy choice (enough? slough? brought? really??) but that's the way it is. I'm all for tossing in and giving anyone any kind of leg up they can get. I work with students (and co-workers/staff/teachers) who struggle with English constantly, but you can't deny the efforts made to go from a language with an arcane, overabundant abugida, odd spelling conventions and a language heavy with liturgical and literary influences from other languages to go to a language with a ridiculously limited alphabet, mind-blowing spelling conventions and a language heavy with liturgical and literary influences from other (dead) languages. It's out of the frying pan and into the fire, and what the Thai people need is better instruction, and a lot of patience.

[lovetotravel]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

+1

[nigelnigel]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

There is nothing wrong with that corrected sentence. "...and went to the hospital" is perfectly correct. There are regional, geographical...blah blah blah differences in English...and also we all speak with accents.

[nigelnigel]

Anyway all of this discussion doesn't matter. I think it all boils down to what I have said a million times...24 times actually...Thailand doesn't care...simple as that. It is unfortunate they (I use this broadly) have this attitude becomes come 2015 they are going to have a severe wake up call with other ASEAN countries passing them by with a quickness.

[jaiyen]

I know this will probably offend some of you, but in my experience ( not literally !! ) some of the best English speakers are Katoey. My wife and I have been to quite a few Katoey bars ( cos she feels comfortable in their presence and they are normally very polite ) and the majority can speak very fluent English with good grammar and a good accent and pronunciation. Quite unlike their common female equivalent in the bars. So where do the Katoey learn their English ? I have never asked. Maybe they should take over the English teaching classes !!

[KarenBravo]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

There is nothing wrong with that corrected sentence. "...and went to the hospital" is perfectly correct. There are regional, geographical...blah blah blah differences in English...and also we all speak with accents.

If you honestly think that there is "nothing wrong with that corrected sentence" and believe that the word accidented is a valid English word, then I suggest you are not qualified to comment on this thread.

[phuketrichard]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

why would u care what the thai teachers say? his english is most likely better than there's.

[pomchop]

Just imagine if the Thai govt passed a new immigration rule that offered a work permit and a one year cost free visa to farangs that volunteer to teach for FREE and no more than 10 hours per week in any public high school....i suspect you'd get a lot of volunteers of older retired farangs that are bored and would like to try and help a bunch of poor kids...but when the govt discourages volunteers by requiring a work permit and hassling the people who are offering to help it is no wonder that most schools have NO native speakers to help teach the kids to give it a shot...it makes no difference if you have an american or aussie or brit type accent...the key is to get the kids to try and speak ANY version of english...who cares if they have an accent as long as they can make themselves understood?

Such a huge potential of FREE native/english speakers just sitting there untapped because the govt won't change a few policies with the stroke of a pen. Would they all be great teachers? Of course not but would you rather have something than nothing? Most Thai public schools have NO native speakers because they have no budget to hire them and do not want to deprive a thai english teacher of a job. Use volunteers and let the thai english teachers sit in the class and HELP him teach the kids?? No job loss, no face loss...benefiicary the thai kids who at least get to TRY and communicate with a farang english speaker in english.

[animatic]

Just imagine if the Thai govt passed a new immigration rule that offered a work permit and a one year cost free visa to farangs that volunteer to teach for FREE and no more than 10 hours per week in any public high school....i suspect you'd get a lot of volunteers of older retired farangs that are bored and would like to try and help a bunch of poor kids...but when the govt discourages volunteers by requiring a work permit and hassling the people who are offering to help it is no wonder that most schools have NO native speakers to help teach the kids to give it a shot...it makes no difference if you have an american or aussie or brit type accent...the key is to get the kids to try and speak ANY version of english...who cares if they have an accent as long as they can make themselves understood?

Such a huge potential of FREE native/english speakers just sitting there untapped because the govt won't change a few policies with the stroke of a pen. Would they all be great teachers? Of course not but would you rather have something than nothing? Most Thai public schools have NO native speakers because they have no budget to hire them and do not want to deprive a thai english teacher of a job. Use volunteers and let the thai english teachers sit in the class and HELP him teach the kids?? No job loss, no face loss...benefiicary the thai kids who at least get to TRY and communicate with a farang english speaker in english. ,

Yes, and forget about the TEFL requirement. Hand them a basic course requirement book showing what they need the kids to know, and just let them work with the kids. A native speaker knows how to speak reasonably good english even if some is idiom and that will be head and shoulders over the local rote but inept variety. Speaking with a native in the proper forms is what is generally missing the reinforcement aspect.

Sure there will ALWAYS be a need for TEFL trained grammarians ,

but just getting comfortable with basic english function and conversation would be invaluable.

[softgeorge]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

There is nothing wrong with that corrected sentence. "...and went to the hospital" is perfectly correct. There are regional, geographical...blah blah blah differences in English...and also we all speak with accents.

If you honestly think that there is "nothing wrong with that corrected sentence" and believe that the word accidented is a valid English word, then I suggest you are not qualified to comment on this thread.

I googled it and the Webster defines Accidented as "of uneven surface" <accidented topography>

So that means "She was of uneven surface and went to hospital."

[TPI]

I think that everyone seems to be missing the point! Speaking English for 4 hours a week and that on a Monday morning is a bit like urinating into a wetsuit, it gives a nice warm feeling but nobody notices! The Director will not give his Monday speech in English nor will the teachers give their first four lessons in English. The English grammar lessons, all through the week will be given in Thai and the farang English teacher will put on an entertaining 50 minutes hoping that some English will sink in!

While French grammar and sentence structure is very similar to Thai hardly any students take it as an elective...could it be that there is no incentive to learn any foreign languages as there is nowhere in the media or in everyday life where it's useful?

Until Thai's start to travel extensively throughout the world or the region they will never have a reason to have a second (European) language.

[TPI]

Just imagine if the Thai govt passed a new immigration rule that offered a work permit and a one year cost free visa to farangs that volunteer to teach for FREE and no more than 10 hours per week in any public high school....i suspect you'd get a lot of volunteers of older retired farangs that are bored and would like to try and help a bunch of poor kids...but when the govt discourages volunteers by requiring a work permit and hassling the people who are offering to help it is no wonder that most schools have NO native speakers to help teach the kids to give it a shot...it makes no difference if you have an american or aussie or brit type accent...the key is to get the kids to try and speak ANY version of english...who cares if they have an accent as long as they can make themselves understood?

Such a huge potential of FREE native/english speakers just sitting there untapped because the govt won't change a few policies with the stroke of a pen. Would they all be great teachers? Of course not but would you rather have something than nothing? Most Thai public schools have NO native speakers because they have no budget to hire them and do not want to deprive a thai english teacher of a job. Use volunteers and let the thai english teachers sit in the class and HELP him teach the kids?? No job loss, no face loss...benefiicary the thai kids who at least get to TRY and communicate with a farang english speaker in english.

Well said, that man. Hear hear!

[najman]

Let's keep it really really simple.

Practice makes perfect.

Most Thai's do not have perfect english

Therefore they need more practice.

End of story. Learning from books and "studying" grammar is not practice. If all they did was talk English 50% of the time in English class their English would be far far better. No qualified teacher can outdo practice no matter where they went to school or what books they bring to the class room. The best English teacher in the world would be one that made them practice, practice practice.

Any new program that doesn't implement a lot of practice will fail.

[pomchop]

So i guess thai's who never leave thailand but work in hotels or tourism industry where they deal every day with english speaking customers don't need to speak english? Only those who travel extensively out of country?

Nope. Ain't buying that line in the least.

As thailand or any other non english speaking country caters more and more to tourists from around the world the need for average thais to learn english is greater than ever....english IS the language of a huge part of the traveling world...if you do not have english speakers in your tourism industry you will lose job opportunities and will never ever attract as many english speaking tourists as you want...many people simply do not want to visit a country or stay in a hotel or eat in a restaurant or go on a tour or anything else where they cannot find someone who can speak at least a passable english to help them....

[softgeorge]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

why would u care what the thai teachers say? his english is most likely better than there's.

We don't care what the thai teachers say, the farang teachers say his english is excellent. Yes he can speak a lot better than his Thai teachers, he could actually instruct them. They actually send lines home for him to learn such as "You like icecream?" he will go to school the next day where they are to repeat the lines studied and he will say "Do you like icecream? This is a fail, in the eyes of his thai teachers and they say we have to help him. He does not have the accent either and can pronounce his "R"'s. English & Thai are basically both 1st languages for him.