When Will We Learn The Lessons Of Road Carnage?: Thai Opinion

[Bagwan]

Holiday Warning Thai style

Please, take care of yourself.

A recent joint study conducted by the Department of Health and the Department of Motor Vehicles indicates that 23% of traffic accidents are alcohol related.

This means that the remaining 77% are caused by idiots drinking bottled water, Starbucks, soda, juice, energy drinks and assorted stuff like that, probably while talking on their cell phones and texting.

Therefore, beware of those who do not drink alcohol. They cause three times as many accidents.

[PoorSucker]

No licences, underage drivers, drunks, no insurance are ALL situations which are wrong. No disputes there. Run them off the road with 10,000bt fines. They will never repeat the offence!

Farang driver, 10.00 baht fine. They will never repeat the offence!

[whybother]

enforce the law and punish the guilty

In Thailand????

[theblether]

I always find these types of threads rather ridiculous ways of "Thai bashing"... and many "farangs just stick their heads in the sand", as though there are no accidents in their home countries... ...

The reason for probably more fatalities here is there is a much higher use of motor bikes, which would increase the numbers, just from having less protection... helmet or not....

The link below shows figures from a number of countries around the world...

Agreed that in some countries numbers are down, but that surely if because of stricter law inforcment.... Yet many people in these forums, turn it into being a money grab by the BIB... good for them! (the BIB that is)....

http://www.car-accid...to_country.html

It appears to me that many posters here have direct knowledge and experience of how the Thais police the roads. So I would call it fair comment that the best way to cut road accidents is to incentivize the police force to work harder at it.

Edited December 31, 2011 by theblether

[Tanaka]

What's shocking is that around 12,000 Thais are killed on the roads per year, or about two persons per hour. In other words, every day, approximately 50 people who leave home for work, school or shopping never return because of road accidents.

What's shocking is that around 12,000 Thais are killed on the roads per year, or about 1,3 persons per hour. In other words, every day, approximately 32 people who leave home for work, school or shopping never return because of road accidents.

Newyear: approx 350 dead in 7 days = 2 persons per hour.

In 1997 the road fatalites in Thailand were 16.758 and the numbers are not lower now. The actual numbers are between 30% to 500% higher than the official police statistics in ASEAN countries. Estimated yearly road fatalities in Thailand are 30-40.000.

[BookMan]

Agreed the number of fatalities in Thai road accidents is higher than in the west, due to the number of motorbikes, BUT the accident happens first.

It is the accident rate that needs to be reduced, be it car, bus, truck or motorbike. And that can only effectively be done by strict law enforcement. That won't happen unless it pays the police to enforce the law, and a hefty percentage of every heavy fine, is the encouragement they need, plus the incentive motorists need to comply with the law.

100% agree with 'It is the accident rate that needs to be reduced, be it car, bus, truck or motorbike. And that can only effectively be done by strict law enforcement.'

We disagree on the fine details of the method of law enforcement.

Then Bookman, given that corruption is not going away, what realistic method of law enforcement do you suggest?

Your question really needs two answers as it involves two different things. Connected , but separate.

1. The issue of the road toll

2. Corruption in relation to enforcement of road rules.

IMO Prakhonchai, it is simplistic to think that it to lower the road toll is just a matter of law enforcement. There are many issues to overcome. Besides law enforcement, just some of them include:

• Seat belts
  
• Wearing of helmets
  
• Drink driving and drug driving. (minimalising and testing)
  
• Speeding
  
• Lane changing
  
• Driving while on mobile phones
  
• Unlicensed drivers
  
• Uninsured drivers
  
• More than one pillion passenger
  
• Riding in the tray section of Pick Ups and trucks
  
• Knowledge of actual road rules
  
• Driver training
  
• Safety awareness campaigns
  
• Vehicle roadworthy certification (tyres etc.)
  
• Fatigue
  
• Road conditions (potholed roads, dangerous corners etc)
  

To achieve awareness and acceptance of the above you need a combination of things like:

• Education
  
• Safety improvements
  
• Enforcement of road rules
  

The issue of corruption is a different one. That is a difficult issue to overcome, but again, as Thailand is more and more westernised, this is likely to change a lot of what people are happy/willing to accept or not accept by police and officials.

Lowering the road toll in Thailand will take years, most likely several decades for it to reach an 'acceptable level'.

[theblether]

Agreed the number of fatalities in Thai road accidents is higher than in the west, due to the number of motorbikes, BUT the accident happens first.

It is the accident rate that needs to be reduced, be it car, bus, truck or motorbike. And that can only effectively be done by strict law enforcement. That won't happen unless it pays the police to enforce the law, and a hefty percentage of every heavy fine, is the encouragement they need, plus the incentive motorists need to comply with the law.

100% agree with 'It is the accident rate that needs to be reduced, be it car, bus, truck or motorbike. And that can only effectively be done by strict law enforcement.'

We disagree on the fine details of the method of law enforcement.

Then Bookman, given that corruption is not going away, what realistic method of law enforcement do you suggest?

Your question really needs two answers as it involves two different things. Connected , but separate.

1. The issue of the road toll

2. Corruption in relation to enforcement of road rules.

IMO Prakhonchai, it is simplistic to think that it to lower the road toll is just a matter of law enforcement. There are many issues to overcome. Besides law enforcement, just some of them include:

• Seat belts
  
• Wearing of helmets
  
• Drink driving and drug driving. (minimalising and testing)
  
• Speeding
  
• Lane changing
  
• Driving while on mobile phones
  
• Unlicensed drivers
  
• Uninsured drivers
  
• More than one pillion passenger
  
• Riding in the tray section of Pick Ups and trucks
  
• Knowledge of actual road rules
  
• Driver training
  
• Safety awareness campaigns
  
• Vehicle roadworthy certification (tyres etc.)
  
• Fatigue
  
• Road conditions (potholed roads, dangerous corners etc)
  

To achieve awareness and acceptance of the above you need a combination of things like:

• Education
  
• Safety improvements
  
• Enforcement of road rules
  

The issue of corruption is a different one. That is a difficult issue to overcome, but again, as Thailand is more and more westernised, this is likely to change a lot of what people are happy/willing to accept or not accept by police and officials.

Lowering the road toll in Thailand will take years, most likely several decades for it to reach an 'acceptable level'.

The driving test has to be stricter, it's a joke right now. To me the best start would be to ban all vehicles from the highway that have unsecured passengers in them. That would be easy to achieve and enforce, and would be a great start.

[prakhonchai nick]

IMO Prakhonchai, it is simplistic to think that it to lower the road toll is just a matter of law enforcement. There are many issues to overcome. Besides law enforcement, just some of them include:

• Seat belts
  
• Wearing of helmets
  
• Drink driving and drug driving. (minimalising and testing)
  
• Speeding
  
• Lane changing
  
• Driving while on mobile phones
  
• Unlicensed drivers
  
• Uninsured drivers
  
• More than one pillion passenger
  
• Riding in the tray section of Pick Ups and trucks
  
• Knowledge of actual road rules
  
• Driver training
  
• Safety awareness campaigns
  
• Vehicle roadworthy certification (tyres etc.)
  
• Fatigue
  
• Road conditions (potholed roads, dangerous corners etc)
  

To achieve awareness and acceptance of the above you need a combination of things like:

• Education
  
• Safety improvements
  
• Enforcement of road rules
  

The issue of corruption is a different one. That is a difficult issue to overcome, but again, as Thailand is more and more westernised, this is likely to change a lot of what people are happy/willing to accept or not accept by police and officials.

Lowering the road toll in Thailand will take years, most likely several decades for it to reach an 'acceptable level'.

Get the idiots off the road first - and quickly - by heavily fining and banning them for every infraction THEN start educating them.

Nothing else works - committees will be set up next week, but there will be no solutions. It's worth a try!

[BookMan]

Get the idiots off the road first - and quickly - by heavily fining and banning them for every infraction THEN start educating them.

Nothing else works - committees will be set up next week, but there will be no solutions. It's worth a try!

With the 'idiots' gone, the roads would certainly be a peaceful place!

[KKvampire]

All talk.pathetic fines.no point system that can end in a ban and of course no enforcement by the most corrupt police in asia. 2012 40,000+ more deaths on the roads.,sorry for the innocent victims ,the offenders are better off gone,

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[osiboy]

....when human life goes before Status and materialism........

good answer, a few adverts on the TV would go along way if they showed the "boy racers and drunk drivers" what idiots they are and how easy it is to kill when driving a deadly weapon and the aftermath, police should allow people to use their mobiles to video police responses to accidents and ignoring serious violations , any officer seen to be neglecting their duty should be suspended or sacked,.......... doubt if there would be many left though !

[JohnAllan]

The answer is NEVER! Unless and until, that is, the authorities understand that the issue is only exacerbated over the holidays.

The fundamental problem is quite simply: the great majority of Thai drivers haven't the first idea about driving skills and safety, added to which many vehicles are unfit to be on the roads.

Until the government and police address the core issues, nothing will change.

[osiboy]

a very small amount of deaths due to Thailands huge population... the devil takes his own...!!

no,......could'nt be further from the truth , ........ car ownership is low in thailand and 80% of the cars are in bkk, ....its about double the size of the uk /germany, ........ but with only 1 big city, thai cities are small compared to hamberg/berlin/manchester/glasgow/birmingham/frankfurt etc , and nowhere near as many cars on the roads.,............ they are simlpy the most selfish and bad drivers ive ever seen, a realistic driving test is the best way to lower the carnage rate and BIG fines

[Soboringtochooseaname]

They will never learn, I am hopeless and feel nothing for them, just expect to save my life !!!

[anterian]

Darwinian selection at its best, don't knock it

[Screws]

Apparently in one large country to the east, traffic fatalities are approaching 1 per 100 Million km.

I would guess around 100 times that here -

[KHR1010]

The change must start at the self-centered essence of the local Psyche, which I believe is amplified while driving do to the anonymity achieved when inside a vehicle. This self-centered issue can be experienced by simply walking down a busy sidewalk in BKK, it is an exercise in evasive maneuvering just to keep from getting run over. However, at the face-to-face level, if eye contact is made, whilst you are about to be collided with or there simply is nowhere else for you to go an individual will usually give a head-nod and make a small allowance for the other person.

This is not the case behind the wheel; Everyone else be damned "I" (this is the collective "I" of the intellectual adolescent drivers on the road with no skill or training to operate a motor-vehicle) am the most important soul in the universe and ...

• if you allow more than a car's length between you and the vehicle you are following I will blast my horn, flash my lights, illegally pass you in an incredibly unsafe manor risking the lives of oncoming motorist so I can wedge my vehicle in front of yours!
  
• if you want to make a right turn into your condo across the oncoming lanes of traffic I am traveling on I will not stop and you will wait all day long with your signal blinking unless you risk your life by physically blocking my lane of travel until there is no possible way I can get my vehicle by, then you may go as I inch my car ever closer to yours while you complete your turning maneuver to prove you are in my way and I am more important!
  
• if you are waiting for the right turn arrow to turn green in a legal and safe manor I will go out into the oncoming lane of traffic as soon as the light turns from 200 meters away and race to the intersection causing a bottle-neck at the turing juncture causing those who patiently waited their turn to miss the light.
  
• if you do not get the hell out of my way on the expressway, even thought the lane to your left is occupied and there is no way in hell you could move over, I will flash my lights and ride 10 centimeters off your bumper while we are traveling at 120kpm, because I MUST go faster and no one's safety matters more than the fact that I must go faster! I don't care that there is a backed up toll-both 2 KM's ahead and we are all going to get there at the same time I must go faster!!
  
• if you dare try to walk across the street I am driving/riding on I will not stop as it is much to difficult/inconvenient for me to apply slight pressure to my brake pedal/lever slowing my vehicles pace of travel enough for you to walk across the street....you must run for your life and hope like hell your feet don't fail you!!
  
• if you etc, etc, etc, etc ,etc, etc!!!
  

Until this "me,myself, and I is all that matters" attitude is changed I don't not see the driving safety improving. The laws of the road are all already in place, but the police will not enforce them properly because they have this same mentality and are to damned concerned about filling their own pockets will ill-gotten-gains!

Rant over, drive safe and keep your head low!

Edited December 31, 2011 by KHR1010

[Phatcharanan]

Life is cheap in Thailand, if a person causes an accident where people are killed or injured, they fill no guilt or shame, its MAI PEN RAI, and i will just go on enjoying my life. If a falang is killed, well is tough, if they had not been in this country they would still be alive, so its not their fault. The government and the police are incompetent buffons, so nothing will ever be done to stop this carnage. NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE THE STUPITY OF THAI DRIVERS !!!!!!!!

Mmmmmm. New here in Thailand aren't you?

[Phatcharanan]

The change must start at the self-centered essence of the local Psyche, which I believe is amplified while driving do to the anonymity achieved when inside a vehicle. This self-centered issue can be experienced by simply walking down a busy sidewalk in BKK, it is an exercise in evasive maneuvering just to keep from getting run over. However, at the face-to-face level, if eye contact is made, whilst you are about to be collided with or there simply is nowhere else for you to go an individual will usually give a head-nod and make a small allowance for the other person.

This is not the case behind the wheel; Everyone else be damned "I" (this is the collective "I" of the intellectual adolescent drivers on the road with no skill or training to operate a motor-vehicle) am the most important soul in the universe and ...

• if you allow more than a car's length between you and the vehicle you are following I will blast my horn, flash my lights, illegally pass you in an incredibly unsafe manor risking the lives of oncoming motorist so I can wedge my vehicle in front of yours!
  
• if you want to make a right turn into your condo across the oncoming lanes of traffic I am traveling on I will not stop and you will wait all day long with your signal blinking unless you risk your life by physically blocking my lane of travel until there is no possible way I can get my vehicle by, then you may go as I inch my car ever closer to yours while you complete your turning maneuver to prove you are in my way and I am more important!
  
• if you are waiting for the right turn arrow to turn green in a legal and safe manor I will go out into the oncoming lane of traffic as soon as the light turns from 200 meters away and race to the intersection causing a bottle-neck at the turing juncture causing those who patiently waited their turn to miss the light.
  
• if you do not get the hell out of my way on the expressway, even thought the lane to your left is occupied and there is no way in hell you could move over, I will flash my lights and ride 10 centimeters off your bumper while we are traveling at 120kpm, because I MUST go faster and no one's safety matters more than the fact that I must go faster! I don't care that there is a backed up toll-both 2 KM's ahead and we are all going to get there at the same time I must go faster!!
  
• if you dare try to walk across the street I am driving/riding on I will not stop as it is much to difficult/inconvenient for me to apply slight pressure to my brake pedal/lever slowing my vehicles pace of travel enough for you to walk across the street....you must run for your life and hope like hell your feet don't fail you!!
  
• if you etc, etc, etc, etc ,etc, etc!!!
  

Until this "me,myself, and I is all that matters" attitude is changed I don't not see the driving safety improving. The laws of the road are all already in place, but the police will not enforce them properly because they have this same mentality and are to damned concerned about filling their own pockets will ill-gotten-gains!

Rant over, drive safe and keep your head low!

Fascinating post...............yawn.

[lovetotravel]

Here's one reason I don't believe their statistics. From last year:

BANGKOK, 15 November 2010 (NNT) -The Thai Health Promotion Foundation (Thai Health) has revealed a frightening figure, stating that drinking kills 26,000 people, an average of three per hour, each year.

The article stated 1/3rd were due to alcohol. I would guess it's much, much higher than that.

I also just read a report that says the number is closer to 30,000 killed every year. That's the estimate from the WHO. And that 50% were due to alcohol. We'll never know the real numbers. But sad.

[prvtdetdave]

When? When better mass-transit systems are in place. When there are less privately owned cars and motorcycles. The reason why there are so many cars is because mass transit systems are virtually non-existent. Perhaps the private vehicle corporations' lobby is so strong that they impede any plan to reduce car sales. All goes back to a different problem altogether.

Are you kidding? Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries. (Not meaning the quality of vehicle, only the system.)

Peddal that rubbish elsewhere.

[oneday]

...If you would have offered money, the police would have done something. Otherwise, like you said, nothing in it for them. Until the police are reformed, no changes in carnage on the roads.

Agree 100%...this is the only topic worth discussing, otherwise it's all just a bunch of talk. If the national police can not be held accountable from the top down, if no elected politician can hold them accountable then what's the point of any of this. It always has been and it always will be this way. Thai people, mostly those in positions to extort money, namely government employees, care much more about money than life itself.

[ThaiKiwi]

New Zealand death toll is 16 for the holiday season from a population of just 4 million.

[Jawnie]

There is only one way - cops of the roads, stopping, ticketing, arresting people. Offenders must go to court, pay the tickets, etc. Saying 'please' and writing editorials does nothing. It will take a multi-year program of cops on the roads stopping people. That's how it works elsewhere...no one can/will police themselves. In the US, drunken driving was reduced only after it became very expensive - big fines, lose driver's license, go to jail, etc. - to be caught.

[Tanaka]

New Zealand death toll is 16 for the holiday season from a population of just 4 million.

Counting from Dec 23. And the population is over 4,4 million.

[hellodolly]

It will be leaned by all shortly after America learns it.

America road death's around 40,000 a year.

[lovetotravel]

It will be leaned by all shortly after America learns it.

America road death's around 40,000 a year.

A more relevant statistic would be number of fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants.

Thailand: 19.6

USA: 12.3

Still way to high, but much lower than Thailand. If you can believe the stats provided by the Thai government.

The number of deaths as estimated by the WHO is closer to 30,000/year. Not much lower than the USA with a population of about 5 times as large.

[fresnoboy]

"How about requiring that drivers learn how to drive before being able to get behind the wheel? It appears the only requirement for driving is that someone can afford to purchase a vehicle..."

Some drivers feel that they are in a race, and others are on a Sunday stroll.

I don't care if they drive fast or slow, just pay attention !!!

[MaiChai]

Just had the pleasure of driving around Chiang Mai provence with what seems like every other driver from Bangkok. Bangkokians show their true personalities when they drive. They obviously have little regard for their and others safety when they should be chilling out and enjoying the holiday.

Regarding law enforcement on the road: this will only happen when the police regard law enforcement as their duty rather than something to profit from. During the floods the police disappeared and the army largely performed their role. When the floods receeded they returned to tax the people again.

[hellodolly]

It will be leaned by all shortly after America learns it.

America road death's around 40,000 a year.

A more relevant statistic would be number of fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants.

Thailand: 19.6

USA: 12.3

Still way to high, but much lower than Thailand. If you can believe the stats provided by the Thai government.

The number of deaths as estimated by the WHO is closer to 30,000/year. Not much lower than the USA with a population of about 5 times as large.

The problem with comparing with the states is that there the medical response is much quicker than in Thailand. Give them the same response time and quality and they will be right up there with Thailand.