Honda Crf 250L

[metisdead]

A post that linked to another forum has been removed as well as a reply.

[canuckamuck]

Well I was fairly interested in this bike, but the alleged price keeps slipping up higher and higher.

I can't see why it needs to be higher than the CBR 250. It has the same engine right?

[taichiplanet]

Well I was fairly interested in this bike, but the alleged price keeps slipping up higher and higher.

I can't see why it needs to be higher than the CBR 250. It has the same engine right?

probably needs better forks to be off-road, so that will push the price up. Maybe APe Honda learnt from the release of the CBR250, they quoted the price too low and when it was higher there were a lot of complaints. Maybe with the CRF250L they are quoting a higher price and then release it lower. Follow my drift? WHo i am kidding, we are talking APe Honda here. Did anyone end up getting a brochure on the CRF at the motorshow?! That is planning for you!

Edited April 3, 2012 by taichiplanet

[wana]

Well I was fairly interested in this bike, but the alleged price keeps slipping up higher and higher.

I can't see why it needs to be higher than the CBR 250. It has the same engine right?

a dealer told me a few weeks ago it should cost about the same ,if t doesnt ,il cancel mine

it doesnt seem worth 140k+ ............ to me anyway

[canuckamuck]

Well I was fairly interested in this bike, but the alleged price keeps slipping up higher and higher.

I can't see why it needs to be higher than the CBR 250. It has the same engine right?

probably needs better forks to be off-road, so that will push the price up. Maybe APe Honda learnt from the release of the CBR250, they quoted the price too low and when it was higher there were a lot of complaints. Maybe with the CRF250L they are quoting a higher price and then release it lower. Follow my drift? WHo i am kidding, we are talking APe Honda here. Did anyone end up getting a brochure on the CRF at the motorshow?! That is planning for you!

How much more do the CRF forks cost than the CBR forks, 25,000 more? that's some real high end forks I guess.

[madjbs]

Bikes have forks and a rear shock don't you know....

Anyway, high end forks would not cost 25,000 baht, more like 100,000 baht. So an increases of 25,000 for improved suspension front and back is certainly not out of the ordinary.

[BigBikeBKK]

Bikes have forks and a rear shock don't you know....

Anyway, high end forks would not cost 25,000 baht, more like 100,000 baht. So an increases of 25,000 for improved suspension front and back is certainly not out of the ordinary.

Yeah, look at the difference in price between a Ninja 650 and a Versys- the higher price of the Versys reflects the higher spec suspension. If you wanted to upgrade the suspension on a Ninja 650 to Versys spec you'd be spending a LOT more than the difference in price between the two bikes.

[canuckamuck]

Bikes have forks and a rear shock don't you know....

Anyway, high end forks would not cost 25,000 baht, more like 100,000 baht. So an increases of 25,000 for improved suspension front and back is certainly not out of the ordinary.

Yeah, look at the difference in price between a Ninja 650 and a Versys- the higher price of the Versys reflects the higher spec suspension. If you wanted to upgrade the suspension on a Ninja 650 to Versys spec you'd be spending a LOT more than the difference in price between the two bikes.

Yes because in essence you would be buying two suspension sets, first the Ninja and then the upgrade.

[motocrosser]

My gf said there was an ad on tv for the new crfl today,still cant find any details on it!

[taichiplanet]

There is a silly ad on APe Honda's website, i think it is promoting the 'big bikes'. It shows a CRF but not sure if it's the 250R or 250L.

http://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2008/

For the sort of money they seem to want for it, and as i probably won't do any serious off road stuff, i like the idea of turning a Royal Enfield into a Scrambler!

[Theboy]

There is a silly ad on APe Honda's website, i think it is promoting the 'big bikes'. It shows a CRF but not sure if it's the 250R or 250L.

http://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2008/

For the sort of money they seem to want for it, and as i probably won't do any serious off road stuff, i like the idea of turning a Royal Enfield into a Scrambler!

Now you are talking but unfortunately the R.E.'s will be very expensive. They are reported to have a distributor and have started selling them in Thailand but there is very little info out there

[bbradsby]

It's nice to think positive, but Honda is not a bunch of idiots; they cut corners somewhere to justify this low price compared to a KLX250.

Honda must have tested every comparable dual sport 250 and realized the CRF is not as good or they would have equal or higher pricing.

...that or they realized Kawi had a really FAT profit margin built into their locally delivered D-Trax in the absence of competition, and decided to clean their clock on price [and weight!] to get a jump start into the market with a fair profit. Kawi's KLX-250s supermoto US Dealer price, including crating, export, shipping, import duties, delivery, uncrate & setup.. $5000 or so... hmm, very close to what they go for in the land of their production? I like Kawis, but competition sharpens the Breed, and we bikers finally get to benefit!

[bbradsby]

i like the idea of turning a Royal Enfield into a Scrambler!

...then you get to push it back to the slag wagon when it breaks on the trail `:] Actually, I DO like the RE lineup.

[nikster]

This is only up for 12 hours - HFL seems to like a lot about this bike.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/04/the-next-great-honda/

Price in Japan is the same as for the CBR250R, close to USD 4,000. My new best guess for the price in Thailand is therefore 120k. I don't know why Honda priced the CBR250R so low in Thailand but I'd imagine with that bike being a huge success that they'll now go for the profits (while still beating the KLX).

Some quotes:

A list of awesome things: Honda CBR250R, riding off-road, low prices, accessible performance, lightweight bikes. Now imagine combining all those into a single product. We give you this newHonda CRF250L.

...

It’s $4,099 price point and stupendous quality is making that CBR250R a big success. The two bikes are priced identically in Japan at ￥449,400.

This CRF250L uses the same motor as that CBR, albeit detuned from 26 to 23bhp and from 17 to 16lb/ft. There’s talk of more torque at lower revs, which could account for the decreased peak output. We’ll know when we see dyno charts.

And, unlike the CRF230L before it, that low price doesn’t mean it’s too small, too slow and too cheap. Those are 21-inch front and 18-inch rear wheels suspended by 43mm USD forks with 9.8 inches of travel and a Pro-Link monoshock with 9.4 inches. The Swingarm is cast aluminum. That engine is the same DOHC, fuel-injected, four-stroke in the CBR, complete with high-tech solutions like an offset cylinder (to boost power) and roller rocker arms for the valves. We repeat, this is a long, long ways from being a bargain basement motorcycle.

Japan has a weird way of quoting fuel economy; the CRF250L is claimed to deliver 104mpg at a steady 37mph and the CBR 115mpg at the same steady, level speed. Honda US quotes 77mpg for the CBR, so expect a slightly lower figure for the CRF (blame the lack of a fairing and upright riding position). One area where the dirt bike beats the street bike is weight; the CRF weighs just 143kg/315lbs (wet) to the CBR’s already light 161kg/355lbs (wet). That’s an appreciable saving.

In Asia and Japan, this dual sport is going to usher in a new era of affordable, economical and accessible but still-capable off-roading. If American Honda can figure out a way to bring it in at the same price point as the CBR250, we hope it can here too.

[strollling]

The Honda TV ad comes on as a video on the AP Honda site.

http://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2008/

Edited April 14, 2012 by strollling

[BigBikeBKK]

This is only up for 12 hours - HFL seems to like a lot about this bike.

http://hellforleathe...xt-great-honda/

Price in Japan is the same as for the CBR250R, close to USD 4,000. My new best guess for the price in Thailand is therefore 120k. I don't know why Honda priced the CBR250R so low in Thailand but I'd imagine with that bike being a huge success that they'll now go for the profits (while still beating the KLX).

Some quotes:

A list of awesome things: Honda CBR250R, riding off-road, low prices, accessible performance, lightweight bikes. Now imagine combining all those into a single product. We give you this newHonda CRF250L.

...

It’s $4,099 price point and stupendous quality is making that CBR250R a big success. The two bikes are priced identically in Japan at ￥449,400.

This CRF250L uses the same motor as that CBR, albeit detuned from 26 to 23bhp and from 17 to 16lb/ft. There’s talk of more torque at lower revs, which could account for the decreased peak output. We’ll know when we see dyno charts.

And, unlike the CRF230L before it, that low price doesn’t mean it’s too small, too slow and too cheap. Those are 21-inch front and 18-inch rear wheels suspended by 43mm USD forks with 9.8 inches of travel and a Pro-Link monoshock with 9.4 inches. The Swingarm is cast aluminum. That engine is the same DOHC, fuel-injected, four-stroke in the CBR, complete with high-tech solutions like an offset cylinder (to boost power) and roller rocker arms for the valves. We repeat, this is a long, long ways from being a bargain basement motorcycle.

Japan has a weird way of quoting fuel economy; the CRF250L is claimed to deliver 104mpg at a steady 37mph and the CBR 115mpg at the same steady, level speed. Honda US quotes 77mpg for the CBR, so expect a slightly lower figure for the CRF (blame the lack of a fairing and upright riding position). One area where the dirt bike beats the street bike is weight; the CRF weighs just 143kg/315lbs (wet) to the CBR’s already light 161kg/355lbs (wet). That’s an appreciable saving.

In Asia and Japan, this dual sport is going to usher in a new era of affordable, economical and accessible but still-capable off-roading. If American Honda can figure out a way to bring it in at the same price point as the CBR250, we hope it can here too.

"stupendous quality"

Really? Are they talking about "Made in Thailand" Honda? Put a Thai-made Honda (or Kwacker for that matter) next to a Japanese built bike and it's quite apparent that Thai build quality is NOT as good as Japanese. That said, the Thai-built bikes are unbeatable VALUE here in the land of expensive imports, so I'm happy to ignore soft paint and ugly frame welds

[BigBikeBKK]

Shame the CRF250L weighs so much and has so little ground clearance and such basic suspension, but hey, at least it's cheap!

[taninthai]

Along with the low ground clearance this also brings a lower seat height which is ideal for beginners according to some other forums I've read a lot of riders claim up to 50% of the times they drop the bike is because they were looking for the ground with their feet So all in all this is not to bad for the beginners out there obviously the professionals and experienced off roaders won't like it but then they wouldn't really be buying this bike anyway.

[taninthai]

Also quite surprised as it sits a little lower than it's nearest rival the klx but seems to have slightly more suspension travel on The rear than the klx although losses a little at the front

[dave_boo]

Really? It's a shame that the CRF, if we're to believe the posted information, weighs all of 5 kg more than the curb weight of 138 kg that wikipedia lists it having? And having some 3 HP more? My recollection of the great Ninja/CBR debate has me remembering you stating that was a HUGE difference in HP for this class of bikes; more so than even the CBR being quite a bit lighter. It also happens to be a much greater difference in weight than what is apparently between these two lite-off roaders.

Meanwhile the CRF gives up all of 0,4 inch of front travel and has a 0,3 inch advantage out back.

Your point about the suspension is a valid one; the rebound and compression adjustment (out back) for the KLX is a great feature. I also do think that questioning the possible reliablity of the engine would be a fair point; IIRC Honda made a great deal of fuss about the lightening of the bits and bobs inside which makes me ponder their longevity in a bike that tacitly suggests off roading where stresses are greater than on roading.

[nikster]

Shame the CRF250L weighs so much and has so little ground clearance and such basic suspension, but hey, at least it's cheap!

Hmm... it's 5kg more than a KLX250. Not great but not terrible, either? Low ground clearance is strange, indeed... all in all it's probably a great little bike, and with way better fuel economy than the KLX.

I don't care about the cost but the range could be close to 300km with that bike! I guess the KLX I rented had something wrong with it as I never got more than 100km before the fuel lamp started flashing - it was a bit disconcerting... or maybe I really abused it that much

Edited April 14, 2012 by nikster

[nikster]

"stupendous quality"

Really? Are they talking about "Made in Thailand" Honda?

Not sure as the CBR250R is made in other places as well, as far as I know. But, HFL is a very reputable magazine and they seem pretty happy with the CBR250R quality. So are the CBR owners I know.

[wana]

Shame the CRF250L weighs so much and has so little ground clearance and such basic suspension, but hey, at least it's cheap!

Hmm... it's 5kg more than a KLX250. Not great but not terrible, either? Low ground clearance is strange, indeed... all in all it's probably a great little bike, and with way better fuel economy than the KLX.

I don't care about the cost but the range could be close to 300km with that bike! I guess the KLX I rented had something wrong with it as I never got more than 100km before the fuel lamp started flashing - it was a bit disconcerting... or maybe I really abused it that much

did you think the tanks were the same size ?

[nikster]

Shame the CRF250L weighs so much and has so little ground clearance and such basic suspension, but hey, at least it's cheap!

Hmm... it's 5kg more than a KLX250. Not great but not terrible, either? Low ground clearance is strange, indeed... all in all it's probably a great little bike, and with way better fuel economy than the KLX.

I don't care about the cost but the range could be close to 300km with that bike! I guess the KLX I rented had something wrong with it as I never got more than 100km before the fuel lamp started flashing - it was a bit disconcerting... or maybe I really abused it that much

did you think the tanks were the same size ?

Huh?

[BigBikeBKK]

Bit of confusion about the weight of the new Honda CRF250L. Honda.au have it at 147kg and that was the weight on the spec sheet at the Bangkok International Motor Show, but the HLF review is stating a kerb weight of 143Kg. Let's hope HLF is correct and Honda AU and APe Honda are wrong

Kawa KLX 250 ground clearance is 11 inches

KLX 250 Seat Height is 34.8 inches

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

Front suspension Travel: 10.2 inches

Rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

Rear suspension Travel: 9.1 inches

The Honda CRF 250L's ground clearance is 258mm or 10.1 inches

CFR250L seat height is 882mm or 34.7 inches (Strange- sitting on the CRF250L at the Bangkok Motor Show it felt shorter than the KLX250...)

Front suspension: 43mm USD forks with 9.8 inches of travel

Rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload and 9.4 inches of travel.

Both bikes carry 7.7 liters (about 2 gallons) of gas, but the Honda should be more fuel efficient so should enjoy greater range.

Based on the lower-spec suspension Honda should be able to beat the Kwacker on price, but at the Bangkok Motor Show the APe Honda folks were clueless as usual about what the price might be for the CRF250L in Thailand. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

Happy Trails!

Tony

[BigBikeBKK]

Shame the CRF250L weighs so much and has so little ground clearance and such basic suspension, but hey, at least it's cheap!

Hmm... it's 5kg more than a KLX250. Not great but not terrible, either? Low ground clearance is strange, indeed... all in all it's probably a great little bike, and with way better fuel economy than the KLX.

I don't care about the cost but the range could be close to 300km with that bike! I guess the KLX I rented had something wrong with it as I never got more than 100km before the fuel lamp started flashing - it was a bit disconcerting... or maybe I really abused it that much

did you think the tanks were the same size ?

If you bothered to check you'd know that they are the same size...

[dave_boo]

Bit of confusion about the weight of the new Honda CRF250L. Honda.au have it at 147kg and that was the weight on the spec sheet at the Bangkok International Motor Show, but the HLF review is stating a kerb weight of 143Kg. Let's hope HLF is correct and Honda AU and APe Honda are wrong

Kawa KLX 250 ground clearance is 11 inches

KLX 250 Seat Height is 34.8 inches

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

Front suspension Travel: 10.2 inches

Rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

Rear suspension Travel: 9.1 inches

The Honda CRF 250L's ground clearance is 258mm or 10.1 inches

CFR250L seat height is 882mm or 34.7 inches (Strange- sitting on the CRF250L at the Bangkok Motor Show it felt shorter than the KLX250...)

Front suspension: 43mm USD forks with 9.8 inches of travel

Rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload and 9.4 inches of travel.

Both bikes carry 7.7 liters (about 2 gallons) of gas, but the Honda should be more fuel efficient so should enjoy greater range.

Based on the lower-spec suspension Honda should be able to beat the Kwacker on price, but at the Bangkok Motor Show the APe Honda folks were clueless as usual about what the price might be for the CRF250L in Thailand. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

Happy Trails!

Tony

Honda claims they have separate function forks. This is pretty heady stuff for that cheap of a bike. Having separate functions means that the spring is on one side and the other has all the damping. A couple of cool things. First weight balance. By going with a bigger spring (necessitated due to being the only one) it helps balance off the rotor and caliper. So, better steering. Secondly it allows the other fork to have bigger valves, shims, etc and do what a larger fork would do. Technically it should also reduce friction because you only have damping on one side. Finally you can have shorter fork tubes also which could strenghten up the front end (but it doesn't look like that was really done).

Already know it's going to be undersprung for tubbies though....

[bbradsby]

I AM NOT a Honda fan in general based on their past reneging on major engine failure under warranty, but let's see: no tears if ya toss it, decent torque, light weight, 43mm USD 'big piston' forks, alum swingarm - drop the front end 20mm, add a real shock, 17" wheelset w/ sticky buns... could this be the basis of a great supermoto?

[Richard-BKK]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

[BigBikeBKK]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

I agree the CRF250L looks good in motard trim, but the one at the motor show was a concept bike-

There's no word yet if Honda will actually produce a motard version of the CRF250L but it would be welcome competition against the Kawasaki D-Tracker-