Honda Crf 250L

[bbradsby]

so when is it going to be in the showrooms ?

APe Honda staff at Bangkok Motor Show completely clueless (as usual)...

Price? Mai ru...

Sales Date? Mai ru...

You have a spec sheet? Mai mee...

Unbelievable!

As Buddhists, they live in the Eternal Present... Ooommmmmmmmmmmm.

[JonnyF]

There is a big difference between desirable engine characteristics on a dirt bike and a road bike though. I think this platform (single cylinder with a lot of torque down low) is actually a really good platform for a 'dirt bike' like a CRF250L, as you'd expect as the engine is derived from a real dirt bike, the CRF250R. The rest of the rumours surrounding the bike (high weight, low ground clearance, suspension not fully adjustable etc.) look like a disappointment if true, but the engine looks reasonably strong and a good format for the bike.

Most of the talk about 'diesel vans' was directed at the CB'r' rather than the CRF. Most people prefer at least 2 cylinders on a road bike which is why there was a lot of surprise and disappointment when the new CB'r' had a single cylinder vs. the far superior inline 4 of the previous version.

Really? Is that why the 'real' dirt bikes in the 250cc class have it the exact opposite of what you claim? YZ250F...34 HP (19 lb-ft); CFR250X...32.5 HP (18 lb-ft); Husqvarna TE250...31 HP (22 lb-ft); etc. Now most of the big 'uns (450 and above) have the characteristics you are talking about.

I will go out on a limb here and question whether that fully adjustable suspension is gong to matter much; to get it fine tuned enough to actually notice the difference are you going to be able to push either bike that hard? Are either bike going to handle the type of terrain where that cm or two that is at or above the axle line is going to matter? And for chrissakes people, it's 5kg! Grow a pair, work out and deal with the added weight (assuming that it is up high where y'all pansies can't handle it). Or if you are that concerned, take all the money you are probably going to save buying the cheaper bike and eat healthy and get the 5kg back.

The reason is that the 'real' dirtbikes in the 250F class are high revving and highly tuned race orientated engines, they need oil and filter changes every ride, rebuilding frequently and tend to blow up a lot. They're built for people who race, and want to ride as fast as possible for a short period of time (20-30 minute motos). So of course it's not going to be exactly the same HP vs. torque ratio as the CRF250L which is meant for light trails and will probably last tens of thousand of kms between major work (assuming they've ironed out the bugs from the CB'r' engine). The CRF250L will be an extremely de-tuned version of the CRF250R engine, low revving, aimed at beginners and inexperienced dirt riders who want it to last forever. Hence it will have "relatively" more torque in comparison to HP than a highly tuned, high revving engine (CRF250R) that is ready to race at a pretty high level straight out of the box. In terms of the 450's, there comes a point when all that HP isn't really usable on a MX track which is why the 450's aren't so highly strung and have relatively more torque in comparison to HP and tend to last longer. Not difficult to understand is it?

You point about losing 5kgs is pretty silly. If you lose 5kgs and workout then you'd still be better off on a lighter bike. Besides, no-one really needs to 'grow a pair' to ride a detuned 250 single do they?

[louse1953]

In a chat over some beers last night it was suggested that the KLX maybe more expensive because like the ER6 etc. although it is made in Thailand In BOI factory it was originally designed for sale in the US/EU. So the Kawasaki is built to slightly higher standards. Whereas the Honda maybe cheaper because it is primarily designed for sale in the local/Asian market.

Bung. Your dog is not wearing a helmet

CBR250 is sold in Oz,and that's a tough market,and selling very,but pricey.Also soll in the States.

[BigBikeBKK]

Yo Dave,

"deslimitada" does not mean "aftermarket" bro...

And the chart you posted is for a KLX250X.

What is a KLX250X? A quick search turns up nothing...

Your comparing a CB'r' 250 with aftermarket pipe and juice box against a stock KLX"X" with de-restricted ECU? (and no idea WHICH kind or "deslimitada" de-restriction we're talking about as there are many).

How much more irrelevant can you get? Now, if you can post up a dyno of a KLX250S with aftermarket pipe and fuel injection controller we might have something to compare, but with the charts you've chosen it's apples and oranges.

Rumor has it that the CRF250L sold in Thailand will be restricted in similar fashion to the KLX. And that the extra weight of the Thai CRF250L is due to a larger, heavier exhaust; needed to get past the silly Thai emissions standard. (Anyone notice the Thai-made Diavel is heavier than the one from Italy? Again- it's due to bigger heavier exhaust). Hopefully if the CRF250L is restricted it will be just as easy to de-restrict as the KLX250.

Honda has already stated that the engine in the CRF250L is tuned for more torque and less horsepower. I'm guessing that do accomplish this the CRF250L will have different cams and ignition timing, perhaps different compression as well. It makes a lot more sense to use the single in a CRF dirtbike than in a CB'r' roadbike, so at least they got that part right.

You know what, you are right; it is not a fair comparison. The original thread on Kawi's forum was a WITH a Power Commander. I have no clue why it is labled "X" unless it was a typo because, as you know the "X" is right below the "S" or the poster was being cute.

You do have an understanding that pipe manufacturers put their baselines on the charts to show off how much increase there is, right? You can understand that, no? And the 23 HP goes well with Honda's claim of 26 crankshaft as that's ~12% drivetrain loss and what's usually expected for motorcycles.

Wrong Dave, go back and look at the thread where you copied that chart- it specifically says "KLX250 EFI Stock"

So you've chosen to post a dyno of a CB'r' 250 with an aftermarket pipe and FI controller, compared to a KLX that is bone stock with some form of ecu de-restriction, but we don't know which one, is that it?

And what meaningful conclusions do you want us to draw from these completely divergent specifications? You who claim to be such a stickler for figures and facts sure do like to cherry pick your "facts".

This is the chart you SHOULD have posted if you wanted to compare the bikes with matching mods:

It's a de-resricted KLX250 with Leo Vince pipe and Powercommander. Look at that! When you make the same modifications to the KLX dirtbike it turns out it matches the HP of the CB'r' roadbike.

It's got to be pretty funny to see a KLX250 dirtbike beating a CB'r' 250 off the lights thanks to the KLX's equal power, lower weight and shorter gearing

And let's not forget that the CRF250L is based on, but is NOT the same as the engine in the CB'r' 250. Honda has already said it will be tuned for more torque and less Hp, so again, even if you posted dyno charts of CB'r' and KLX with MATCHING modifications it still won't tell you anything meaningful about the CRF250L.

[dave_boo]

Wrong Dave, go back and look at the thread where you copied that chart- it specifically says "KLX250 EFI Stock"

So you've chosen to post a dyno of a CB'r' 250 with an aftermarket pipe and FI controller, compared to a KLX that is bone stock with some form of ecu de-restriction, but we don't know which one, is that it?

And what meaningful conclusions do you want us to draw from these completely divergent specifications? You who claim to be such a stickler for figures and facts sure do like to cherry pick your "facts".

This is the chart you SHOULD have posted if you wanted to compare the bikes with matching mods:

It's a de-resricted KLX250 with Leo Vince pipe and Powercommander. Look at that! When you make the same modifications to the KLX dirtbike it turns out it matches the HP of the CB'r' roadbike.

It's got to be pretty funny to see a KLX250 dirtbike beating a CB'r' 250 off the lights thanks to the KLX's equal power, lower weight and shorter gearing

And let's not forget that the CRF250L is based on, but is NOT the same as the engine in the CB'r' 250. Honda has already said it will be tuned for more torque and less Hp, so again, even if you posted dyno charts of CB'r' and KLX with MATCHING modifications it still won't tell you anything meaningful about the CRF250L.

I did make a mistake. In my haste to post I got the parts of the other thread mixed up.

You are correct, the KLX 250S makes 19.62 HP apparently bone stock for the gentleman who posted. It also agrees with Two Brother's dyno so we'll accept that for what it's worth (and not quibble over the delimitada).

The CBR 250R engine makes 23 RWHP; with a Two Brother's slip-on and a Juice Box it makes 24,5. Furthermore, Akrapovic is claiming the same baseline so that you can not say it only makes 23 because it supposedly has a Juicebox on it when it states it is stock.

Ergo, the KLX250S makes 2,5 HP less than the stock CBR engine. There was no divergent graphical information presented; I DID mis-speak about the ECU being aftermarket (and compounded that by talking about the PowerCommander that was not installed for that dyno..).

I'll reiterate that the standard acceptable drivetrain loss estimation is 12%; Honda's claimed BHP - 12% = 23 HP. Seems Honda is telling the truth about the motor's capabilities. Assuming they are going to continue the trend; than the 23 BHP that Hell for Leather claims should translate into 20.24 RWHP. It seems that I was being overly generous with the power to weight ratio as assuming the speculation is correct the KLX would actually have a 0,03 kg/HP advantage; or the equivalent of a bowl of sam tum.

I would like to see a statement from Honda (there's plenty of speculation going around that the 23 HP is the number, but nothing on Honda's sites...so I guess that's as good as listening to Richard, isn't it?) that the engine was going to be 'de'tuned ~12% to use in the CRF; until then it's fine and dandy to keep these numbers in mind, but to act as if they are the gospel is a bit suspect isn't it? I used a dyno from a known FI KLX; it's 19.6 RWHP. We know that the current CBR engine makes 23 RWHP. Unless the rumours are substantiated as to the actual loss of the allegedly retuned CRF engine, you're really just pulling claims out of your bum aren't you?

[BigBikeBKK]

Wrong Dave, go back and look at the thread where you copied that chart- it specifically says "KLX250 EFI Stock"

So you've chosen to post a dyno of a CB'r' 250 with an aftermarket pipe and FI controller, compared to a KLX that is bone stock with some form of ecu de-restriction, but we don't know which one, is that it?

And what meaningful conclusions do you want us to draw from these completely divergent specifications? You who claim to be such a stickler for figures and facts sure do like to cherry pick your "facts".

This is the chart you SHOULD have posted if you wanted to compare the bikes with matching mods:

It's a de-resricted KLX250 with Leo Vince pipe and Powercommander. Look at that! When you make the same modifications to the KLX dirtbike it turns out it matches the HP of the CB'r' roadbike.

It's got to be pretty funny to see a KLX250 dirtbike beating a CB'r' 250 off the lights thanks to the KLX's equal power, lower weight and shorter gearing

And let's not forget that the CRF250L is based on, but is NOT the same as the engine in the CB'r' 250. Honda has already said it will be tuned for more torque and less Hp, so again, even if you posted dyno charts of CB'r' and KLX with MATCHING modifications it still won't tell you anything meaningful about the CRF250L.

I did make a mistake. In my haste to post I got the parts of the other thread mixed up.

You are correct, the KLX 250S makes 19.62 HP apparently bone stock for the gentleman who posted. It also agrees with Two Brother's dyno so we'll accept that for what it's worth (and not quibble over the delimitada).

The CBR 250R engine makes 23 RWHP; with a Two Brother's slip-on and a Juice Box it makes 24,5. Furthermore, Akrapovic is claiming the same baseline so that you can not say it only makes 23 because it supposedly has a Juicebox on it when it states it is stock.

Ergo, the KLX250S makes 2,5 HP less than the stock CBR engine. There was no divergent graphical information presented; I DID mis-speak about the ECU being aftermarket (and compounded that by talking about the PowerCommander that was not installed for that dyno..).

I'll reiterate that the standard acceptable drivetrain loss estimation is 12%; Honda's claimed BHP - 12% = 23 HP. Seems Honda is telling the truth about the motor's capabilities. Assuming they are going to continue the trend; than the 23 BHP that Hell for Leather claims should translate into 20.24 RWHP. It seems that I was being overly generous with the power to weight ratio as assuming the speculation is correct the KLX would actually have a 0,03 kg/HP advantage; or the equivalent of a bowl of sam tum.

I would like to see a statement from Honda (there's plenty of speculation going around that the 23 HP is the number, but nothing on Honda's sites...so I guess that's as good as listening to Richard, isn't it?) that the engine was going to be 'de'tuned ~12% to use in the CRF; until then it's fine and dandy to keep these numbers in mind, but to act as if they are the gospel is a bit suspect isn't it? I used a dyno from a known FI KLX; it's 19.6 RWHP. We know that the current CBR engine makes 23 RWHP. Unless the rumours are substantiated as to the actual loss of the allegedly retuned CRF engine, you're really just pulling claims out of your bum aren't you?

Thanks for admitting the mistake

"Honda claims a peak output of 23hp at 8500rpm and 16 ft-lb. at 7000rpm from the CRF250L’s engine."

Not clear if that's at the crank or wheel. And it will be restricted.

Stick this in your bum and substantiate it

Source: http://world.honda.com/CRF250L/index.html

[dave_boo]

Thanks for admitting the mistake

"Honda claims a peak output of 23hp at 8500rpm and 16 ft-lb. at 7000rpm from the CRF250L’s engine."

Not clear if that's at the crank or wheel. And it will be restricted.

Stick this in your bum and substantiate it

Source: http://world.honda.c...250L/index.html

Maybe I am not seeing it, but I looked in the Specs page and the Engine pages (all three of them) and saw no mention of the claimed drop to 23 BHP. Nor any restrictions that you are claiming.

Are we sure that Richard hasn't taken over your account...you both live in BKK...or are you just trolling again?

[taninthai]

For those that havenot seen yet Honda have now opened their crf webpage bit more info and pics

http://world.honda.com/CRF250L/index.html

[nikster]

For those that havenot seen yet Honda have now opened their crf webpage bit more info and pics

http://world.honda.c...250L/index.html

That's quite a bit of info there - 3 pages on the engine, 5 on the chassis, wow!

The only thing they're not giving away: HP and price.

[taninthai]

Yes it's not looking bad it already has aluminium rims and the 45 degree steering movement will be a great help in tight trails, looks like front and back suspension is showa should be ok.

Hopefully get some news this week never waited for anything so long in all my life....

[easylife]

Yes it's not looking bad it already has aluminium rims and the 45 degree steering movement will be a great help in tight trails, looks like front and back suspension is showa should be ok.

Hopefully get some news this week never waited for anything so long in all my life....

patience is a virtue

[strollling]

official spec sheet for the north american model is listed as 143kg kerb weight.

[taninthai]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

[karlos]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

[taninthai]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

Lol......so you don't like it then

You are probably right as the crf is set for global release I don't suppose Honda cares if the klx 150 steals a few sales from them in thailand

[karlos]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

Lol......so you don't like it then

You are probably right as the crf is set for global release I don't suppose Honda cares if the klx 150 steals a few sales from them in thailand

MCN also hate it stating 'it has no place on road or off'

[BigBikeBKK]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

The KLX150 is roughly based on the KX140 which is a little ripper of a bike. It's just road legal. While I think riding a 150 on the road would be dreadful, once you get it offroad it will give bigger dirtbikes a serious run for the money!

[taninthai]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

The KLX150 is roughly based on the KX140 which is a little ripper of a bike. It's just road legal. While I think riding a 150 on the road would be dreadful, once you get it offroad it will give bigger dirtbikes a serious run for the money!

yes roughly based is the right word seems the have downgraded alot of the parts from the 140 only engine and suspension the same below is a review of the old model and i dont think there is much change in the 2012 version still be great fun though as long as you dont want to go to far on it.

KLX 150 is based from KLX 140, but not exacly the same with KLX 140 Japanese or American version, at least in terms of quality of goods. The exactly same sector is on the engine and suspension. at other side, the swing arm, rim, tire, and handle bar are different quality from KLX 140 USA version. If the Swing arm and Rim for KLX 140 USA version made from a strong lightweight alloy, the Indonesia KLX 150 version is made of iron.

[nikster]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

Yeah I am sure Honda is quaking in their boots... a 150KLX, OMG, what do we do now???...

[Bung]

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

The KLX150 is roughly based on the KX140 which is a little ripper of a bike. It's just road legal. While I think riding a 150 on the road would be dreadful, once you get it offroad it will give bigger dirtbikes a serious run for the money!

Seriously? A KLX 150 will give any off road 250 a run for their money?? I would think having an extra 100cc at your disposal would make a difference, given their suspensions would be the same if not better on the 250's. And don't say the weight would matter, it may not be completely lost in the dust but it won't give a 250 a "run for it's money"

[RidersCorner]

Any gradient and a stock 150cc would be hell, I don't think you know what you're talking about

A little off topic but I see on another forum the klx 150 is available for pre order 79.000 bht carbed version I can see this definitely having a impact on the 250l sales especially if the crf is priced 130-140 k

Just on the basis of all the Thais upgrading from the ksr this 150 should sell quite well

Wonder if Honda has been delaying setting crf price until they saw what this klx 150 sells for.

In the most polite way possible... The klx150 is a big wet fart, it really won't concern Honda

The KLX150 is roughly based on the KX140 which is a little ripper of a bike. It's just road legal. While I think riding a 150 on the road would be dreadful, once you get it offroad it will give bigger dirtbikes a serious run for the money!

[nikster]

Hell For Leather magazine are total fanboys of the CRF250L even before it's released...

Couple quick points that we should get out of the way:

1. Ever on-message American Honda won’t comment on future models, so there’s no firm commitment that they’ll import it to the US. But, the bike is equipped with a spark arrestor, indicating it was built with this market in mind.

2. The CRF is priced identically to the $4,099 CBR in Japan, down to the last Yen.

3. That CBR isn’t utterly fantastic because of an on-paper performance number, it’s a complete, holistic package of quality components and clever solutions that combine to create a motorcycle that’s at once intuitively easy for a beginner, yet also totally enjoyable for an experienced rider. Sean likes it as much as Ashlee as much as me as much as Michael Uhlarik, as much as Sean MacDonald, as much as everyone we know who’s ridden it.

It’s those last two points that add up to my excitement for the bike. If Honda can pull another CBR250 in a dual-sport, then this thing’s going to be awesome. No, it’s not going to be the fastest or best handling or most capable dirt bike ever, but signs point to it being an astounding mix of accessible price, accessible performance, broad capabilities and an applicability to a wide range of riders and a wider range of terrain. The CBR250 is a blast on mountain roads, is totally comfortable on highways, rules on city streets and can even manage a trackday. The CRF should be a blast on fire-roads, be a great city commuter and will even manage highways.

Let’s address the immediate problems that Sean identified: weight and power. The CBR250R weighs 317lbs because it uses a simple, strong steel double-cradle frame. Making a bike that needs to be equally applicable to commuters in Southeast Asia as it does to leisure rides in SoCal, all at that incredibly affordable price, rules out the use of lightweight aluminum. The factory in Thailand, which also makes the CBR, is already tooled to produce steel frames. A little more weight equals a little less cost and increased ruggedness over years of ownership in parts of the world where bikes are actually repaired instead of replaced. Weight is also added by that ginormous exhaust can. Blame politicians around the world who like polar bears and votes more than they do hacking up particulates and loud bikes. This needs to be a road-legal motorcycle in a lot of places for a long model life.

Then there’s the power. You’d have thought Sean would have known better, since he finds the CBR’s engine to be so much more useful than the more-powerful Ninja 250’s. The CRF uses the same motor, albeit detuned from 27 to 23bhp in the name of more low-down torque. The CBR’s liquid-cooled, DOHC 250 is already extremely flexible for such a small motor, the CRF’s should be even more so, at the expense of some top end. Again, there’s also cost. The 31bhp Yamaha WR250R costs $6,590 for a reason.

Despite all that, the CRF still weighs less than the CBR. 317 vs 357lbs (wet). I’ve never heard anyone call the CBR heavy.

Bargain basement?

I hope this doesn’t sound like Honda has cut corners because, by all appearances, they totally haven’t. A monoblock-cast aluminum swingarm looks the part and should help reduce unsprung weight along with the aluminum rims. The rear shock is a Pro-Link design and front-suspension is by 43mm (ie big and chunky) USD Showas. Both front and rear discs are wavy and the four-piston front caliper appears similar to the effective item used by the CBR. Clocks are digital, there’s plenty of practical features like tie-down points and lockable tool storage and fancy stuff like a digital dash too. Uniquely, there’s 45 degrees of steering lock in each direction, which is part of what should make this lightweight, simple motorcycle so easy to use on city streets and tight trails alike.

And here's a promo video with extra cheesy rock music. Looks great except that jump towards the end ... erm... doubt it...

http://youtu.be/sTPpweuz3Eg

This bike looks to be absolutely perfect for my first dual sports...

[thaicbr]

Hell For Leather magazine are total fanboys of the CRF250L even before it's released...

Couple quick points that we should get out of the way:

1. Ever on-message American Honda won’t comment on future models, so there’s no firm commitment that they’ll import it to the US. But, the bike is equipped with a spark arrestor, indicating it was built with this market in mind.

2. The CRF is priced identically to the $4,099 CBR in Japan, down to the last Yen.

3. That CBR isn’t utterly fantastic because of an on-paper performance number, it’s a complete, holistic package of quality components and clever solutions that combine to create a motorcycle that’s at once intuitively easy for a beginner, yet also totally enjoyable for an experienced rider. Sean likes it as much as Ashlee as much as me as much as Michael Uhlarik, as much as Sean MacDonald, as much as everyone we know who’s ridden it.

It’s those last two points that add up to my excitement for the bike. If Honda can pull another CBR250 in a dual-sport, then this thing’s going to be awesome. No, it’s not going to be the fastest or best handling or most capable dirt bike ever, but signs point to it being an astounding mix of accessible price, accessible performance, broad capabilities and an applicability to a wide range of riders and a wider range of terrain. The CBR250 is a blast on mountain roads, is totally comfortable on highways, rules on city streets and can even manage a trackday. The CRF should be a blast on fire-roads, be a great city commuter and will even manage highways.

Let’s address the immediate problems that Sean identified: weight and power. The CBR250R weighs 317lbs because it uses a simple, strong steel double-cradle frame. Making a bike that needs to be equally applicable to commuters in Southeast Asia as it does to leisure rides in SoCal, all at that incredibly affordable price, rules out the use of lightweight aluminum. The factory in Thailand, which also makes the CBR, is already tooled to produce steel frames. A little more weight equals a little less cost and increased ruggedness over years of ownership in parts of the world where bikes are actually repaired instead of replaced. Weight is also added by that ginormous exhaust can. Blame politicians around the world who like polar bears and votes more than they do hacking up particulates and loud bikes. This needs to be a road-legal motorcycle in a lot of places for a long model life.

Then there’s the power. You’d have thought Sean would have known better, since he finds the CBR’s engine to be so much more useful than the more-powerful Ninja 250’s. The CRF uses the same motor, albeit detuned from 27 to 23bhp in the name of more low-down torque. The CBR’s liquid-cooled, DOHC 250 is already extremely flexible for such a small motor, the CRF’s should be even more so, at the expense of some top end. Again, there’s also cost. The 31bhp Yamaha WR250R costs $6,590 for a reason.

Despite all that, the CRF still weighs less than the CBR. 317 vs 357lbs (wet). I’ve never heard anyone call the CBR heavy.

Bargain basement?

I hope this doesn’t sound like Honda has cut corners because, by all appearances, they totally haven’t. A monoblock-cast aluminum swingarm looks the part and should help reduce unsprung weight along with the aluminum rims. The rear shock is a Pro-Link design and front-suspension is by 43mm (ie big and chunky) USD Showas. Both front and rear discs are wavy and the four-piston front caliper appears similar to the effective item used by the CBR. Clocks are digital, there’s plenty of practical features like tie-down points and lockable tool storage and fancy stuff like a digital dash too. Uniquely, there’s 45 degrees of steering lock in each direction, which is part of what should make this lightweight, simple motorcycle so easy to use on city streets and tight trails alike.

And here's a promo video with extra cheesy rock music. Looks great except that jump towards the end ... erm... doubt it...

http://youtu.be/sTPpweuz3Eg

This bike looks to be absolutely perfect for my first dual sports...

You were not watching the video. That last jump was the moto x Bike. Not the dual sport... doh

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[JonnyF]

Looks quite good, the suspension looks way soft though - nearly bottoming out the front forks over a 1-2 foot jump - yikes.

I like how they slipped in a few shots of the CRF250/450R blasting round a MX track - nice touch!

Overall I think this will be a decent bike for commuting, a bit or touring and some trail riding. Did they announce the price or release date yet?

[BigBikeBKK]

Nice looking bike and very fuel efficient. Should make a nice cheap commuter and suitable for light offroad too!

[nikster]

You were not watching the video. That last jump was the moto x Bike. Not the dual sport... doh

well I did not believe that the humble CRF250L could pull that off, but yeah did not look closely enough - nice marketing there! Not dishonest either: The CRF riders are standing around, watching the moto x bike in amazement...

Price - we'll have to wait and see. Seems like AP Honda have offered the CBR250 way cheaper over here than for example in the USA (base price with no ABS USD 4100 or THB 126k as of today). Which is very unusual to say the least. All the Kawasakis are cheaper in the USA, for example, and Ducati even more so. The CBR250 is the only big bike that's cheaper in Thailand than in the US.

With the demand as it is right now AP Honda would probably be correct in thinking that while they could probably offer the CRF250L for the same price, they might as well charge 110-125k baht for it and take the profits. I am thinking around 115 - 120k - 115k would line up nicely with the CBR ABS; 120 would still be way cheaper than a KLX.

[dave_boo]

Just some observations.

Honda lists the exact same drivetrain for both the CRF and the CBR with the exception of the final drive which is 5% lower on the CRF. Could the off-roadies speak up on the results of that? Am I wrong for thinking that being able to go some 45 km/h in first (and 72 in second) does not for a good off-road bike make? Or am I just inflating a non-issue.

Also of note is that Honda lists the same compression ratio for both bikes. Also, google searches result in a peak HP at 8500 and peak torque at 7000 for both the CBR and CRF. So same compression ratio, same peak HP RPM and Torque RPM...why on earth would there be any difference in power output from the CRF engine compared to the CBR?

[JonnyF]

Just some observations.

Honda lists the exact same drivetrain for both the CRF and the CBR with the exception of the final drive which is 5% lower on the CRF. Could the off-roadies speak up on the results of that? Am I wrong for thinking that being able to go some 45 km/h in first (and 72 in second) does not for a good off-road bike make? Or am I just inflating a non-issue.

Also of note is that Honda lists the same compression ratio for both bikes. Also, google searches result in a peak HP at 8500 and peak torque at 7000 for both the CBR and CRF. So same compression ratio, same peak HP RPM and Torque RPM...why on earth would there be any difference in power output from the CRF engine compared to the CBR?

That gearing isn't really good for off-roading given the weight/power of the bike, but it's pretty clear that this bike isn't really designed for any serious off roading. A larger rear sprocket would be an easy way to give it a bit more bite at the expense of top speed, but unless you're Ryan Villopoto then it's unlikely you'll be hitting anywhere near the top speed of this bike off road, especially with that soft-ass suspension.

[BigBikeBKK]

Just some observations.

Honda lists the exact same drivetrain for both the CRF and the CBR with the exception of the final drive which is 5% lower on the CRF. Could the off-roadies speak up on the results of that? Am I wrong for thinking that being able to go some 45 km/h in first (and 72 in second) does not for a good off-road bike make? Or am I just inflating a non-issue.

Also of note is that Honda lists the same compression ratio for both bikes. Also, google searches result in a peak HP at 8500 and peak torque at 7000 for both the CBR and CRF. So same compression ratio, same peak HP RPM and Torque RPM...why on earth would there be any difference in power output from the CRF engine compared to the CBR?

That gearing isn't really good for off-roading given the weight/power of the bike, but it's pretty clear that this bike isn't really designed for any serious off roading. A larger rear sprocket would be an easy way to give it a bit more bite at the expense of top speed, but unless you're Ryan Villopoto then it's unlikely you'll be hitting anywhere near the top speed of this bike off road, especially with that soft-ass suspension.

Yeah, anyone who might want to do any "serious" off roading with this bike will want to lower the gearing and beef up the suspension. Then it will be fun to see if the frame can handle any serious punishment.

[thaicbr]

Blimey.. before its even here its got soft arse suspension......and thats without actually riding it .LOL