Honda Crf 250L

[JoePai]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

I agree the CRF250L looks good in motard trim, but the one at the motor show was a concept bike-

There's no word yet if Honda will actually produce a motard version of the CRF250L but it would be welcome competition against the Kawasaki D-Tracker-

Please excuse the ignorance but apart from changing the wheels /tires, what else needs to be changed to make it a 'Supermoto'

[taninthai]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

I agree the CRF250L looks good in motard trim, but the one at the motor show was a concept bike-

There's no word yet if Honda will actually produce a motard version of the CRF250L but it would be welcome competition against the Kawasaki D-Tracker-

Please excuse the ignorance but apart from changing the wheels /tires, what else needs to be changed to make it a 'Supermoto'

You can't really call it a concept bike as they have only changed the wheels ,plastics and maybe played with the suspension

A concept bike is a 1 off built prototype bike that is mainly just for show,the one in the picture more just a modded standard machine

[BigBikeBKK]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

I agree the CRF250L looks good in motard trim, but the one at the motor show was a concept bike-

There's no word yet if Honda will actually produce a motard version of the CRF250L but it would be welcome competition against the Kawasaki D-Tracker-

Please excuse the ignorance but apart from changing the wheels /tires, what else needs to be changed to make it a 'Supermoto'

You can't really call it a concept bike as they have only changed the wheels ,plastics and maybe played with the suspension

A concept bike is a 1 off built prototype bike that is mainly just for show,the one in the picture more just a modded standard machine

55, yeah, you're right of course- but this is what passes for a Thai-made "concept" bike

[BigBikeBKK]

The Honda CRF250L looks pretty good as a Supermoto

I agree the CRF250L looks good in motard trim, but the one at the motor show was a concept bike-

There's no word yet if Honda will actually produce a motard version of the CRF250L but it would be welcome competition against the Kawasaki D-Tracker-

Please excuse the ignorance but apart from changing the wheels /tires, what else needs to be changed to make it a 'Supermoto'

Yes, different wheels and tires, probably a different front brake disc, wheel spacers and brake caliper brackets, sprockets and chain. That should about do it

The forks aren't adjustable so one might want to think about heavier springs and different valving / heavier fork oil for road use. Or heck, just replace them with D-Tracker forks- they're 43mm so should fit quite easily

The rear shock is very basic and might not be suitable for road use. No doubt one would feel a big improvement with an aftermarket rear shock upgrade.

[BigBikeBKK]

Honda claims they have separate function forks. This is pretty heady stuff for that cheap of a bike. Having separate functions means that the spring is on one side and the other has all the damping. A couple of cool things. First weight balance. By going with a bigger spring (necessitated due to being the only one) it helps balance off the rotor and caliper. So, better steering. Secondly it allows the other fork to have bigger valves, shims, etc and do what a larger fork would do. Technically it should also reduce friction because you only have damping on one side. Finally you can have shorter fork tubes also which could strenghten up the front end (but it doesn't look like that was really done).

Already know it's going to be undersprung for tubbies though....

Where'd ya hear about the separate forks? I haven't seen that anywhere. There's nothing "heady" about it really- it's a good way again to cut costs. One heavy spring is cheaper than two lighter springs. One valve is cheaper than two, etc.

I doubt very much that one fork will weigh more than the other to, as you say "balance off the rotor and caliper"...

Reduce friction? Sorry, I don't see how that will happen- you're supposing that one big valve in one fork will somehow be more efficient and perform better than balanced valves in both forks?

Finally, why would separate fork functions make the fork tubes be shorter?

I read somewhere (I think it was on Thumpertalk) that the stock suspension on most small displacement Japanese motorcycles is designed for riders weighing an average of 150-170 lbs (~68-78Kg). If you're way lighter or, in your case, way heavier than that range, then you can expect the stock suspension to not work very well. Either go on a diet or budget some funds for suspension upgrades to match your weight.

Ride On!

T

[dave_boo]

Honda claims they have separate function forks. This is pretty heady stuff for that cheap of a bike. Having separate functions means that the spring is on one side and the other has all the damping. A couple of cool things. First weight balance. By going with a bigger spring (necessitated due to being the only one) it helps balance off the rotor and caliper. So, better steering. Secondly it allows the other fork to have bigger valves, shims, etc and do what a larger fork would do. Technically it should also reduce friction because you only have damping on one side. Finally you can have shorter fork tubes also which could strenghten up the front end (but it doesn't look like that was really done).

Already know it's going to be undersprung for tubbies though....

Where'd ya hear about the separate forks? I haven't seen that anywhere. There's nothing "heady" about it really- it's a good way again to cut costs. One heavy spring is cheaper than two lighter springs. One valve is cheaper than two, etc.

I doubt very much that one fork will weigh more than the other to, as you say "balance off the rotor and caliper"...

Reduce friction? Sorry, I don't see how that will happen- you're supposing that one big valve in one fork will somehow be more efficient and perform better than balanced valves in both forks?

Finally, why would separate fork functions make the fork tubes be shorter?

I read somewhere (I think it was on Thumpertalk) that the stock suspension on most small displacement Japanese motorcycles is designed for riders weighing an average of 150-170 lbs (~68-78Kg). If you're way lighter or, in your case, way heavier than that range, then you can expect the stock suspension to not work very well. Either go on a diet or budget some funds for suspension upgrades to match your weight.

Ride On!

T

Ummh, I heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

The inverted front suspension employs a Separate Function Front Fork having an inner tube diameter of 43 mm and a cushion stroke of 250 mm in a design that secures both light weight and high rigidity to deliver excellent operability and high driving stability.

You do not have to take my word for the advantages, go ahead and read what what the professionals have to say. I'll try and answer your questions to the best of my ability though. It's heady because even the KX250F from 2011 onward uses this. For it to be on a cheap bike (less than 5k USD) is pretty cool if one puts aside their bias. And I am not saying this because of my Honda bias, but rather because technology making its way down to normal folks life is always gonna make me excited.

My understanding of the friction reduction comes from the springed fork having only enough oil to lubricate the spring and action. Thus the spring doing their job does not interfere with the oil action. Having no springs in the other fork results in a straighter action (disregarding the 'churning' of the oil by the springs) and therefore less turbulence as the oil does its job.

I don't think it's hard to understand that separating the functions will reduce the overall length. As most of the damper is above the springs, putting them separately would allow one to reduce the overall length of the tubes.

[taninthai]

Interesting information above good to see Honda makingvthe effort what with being first with abs on a 250 and then throwing these forks on the crf it's not looking at all bad

[BigBikeBKK]

Ummh, I heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

The inverted front suspension employs a Separate Function Front Fork having an inner tube diameter of 43 mm and a cushion stroke of 250 mm in a design that secures both light weight and high rigidity to deliver excellent operability and high driving stability.

You do not have to take my word for the advantages, go ahead and read what what the professionals have to say. I'll try and answer your questions to the best of my ability though. It's heady because even the KX250F from 2011 onward uses this. For it to be on a cheap bike (less than 5k USD) is pretty cool if one puts aside their bias. And I am not saying this because of my Honda bias, but rather because technology making its way down to normal folks life is always gonna make me excited.

My understanding of the friction reduction comes from the springed fork having only enough oil to lubricate the spring and action. Thus the spring doing their job does not interfere with the oil action. Having no springs in the other fork results in a straighter action (disregarding the 'churning' of the oil by the springs) and therefore less turbulence as the oil does its job.

I don't think it's hard to understand that separating the functions will reduce the overall length. As most of the damper is above the springs, putting them separately would allow one to reduce the overall length of the tubes.

Cool! Thanks for the links and explanation.

It's funny, because the Versys has "semi" separate function front forks, and I thought it was just a cost savings gimmick to have the pre-load and damping only on the right fork since every sport and supersport motorcycle I've ever ridden has had matching forks. I was even thinking of adding the pre-load and damping functions to the left fork to "balance" the front suspension because in my gut it just doesn't feel right to me that only one fork (the right fork) is "doing most of the work" as far as pre-load and damping is concerned.

I wonder why separate function forks are apparently becoming popular for dirt bikes but not for supersports?

[dave_boo]

Cool! Thanks for the links and explanation.

It's funny, because the Versys has "semi" separate function front forks, and I thought it was just a cost savings gimmick to have the pre-load and damping only on the right fork since every sport and supersport motorcycle I've ever ridden has had matching forks. I was even thinking of adding the pre-load and damping functions to the left fork to "balance" the front suspension because in my gut it just doesn't feel right to me that only one fork (the right fork) is "doing most of the work" as far as pre-load and damping is concerned.

I wonder why separate function forks are apparently becoming popular for dirt bikes but not for supersports?

I am nowhere near a suspension guru, but from what I understand of it all, it seems that you possibly lose a bit of the 'feel' by going with SFF. I.E., there's less feedback which is great for those multitude of ripples and big jars when landing off road but not so good when you are trying to carve a corner on road. Can the system be adapted? I would hazard a guess as to yes, after all FI appeared on streetbikes and much later arrived to off-road bikes; mass centralisation really started with Buell and now you have experimentation with reversed cylinders on off road bikes...

[taninthai]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

P.s I'm am not having a dig at anyone specific on this forum just looking for answers to how people come to these conclusions without ever seeing or riding a bike,a guy on another forum has already decided to go for the klx and that's before he even knew about the front set up of the crf

[taninthai]

It might come in at only 100kg in this guise

Arghhh problems posting picture sorry

[karlos]

I just saw this bike advertised on Thai PBS, just a promo video, no information.

But from the video i saw on Thai PBS, this new CRF can jump 10 feet high without any problems what so ever.... Then again Honda didn't show the bike landing

[nikster]

This bike is looking better and better... without having any more info than anyone else here is what I expect this to be: A more accessible, easy-to-ride dual sports for a low beginner-friendly price. Exactly like the CBR250, only a dual sport.

^ hmm.. that must have been a different promo video - the one I saw - I think the official Honda Japanese one - was super tame, no extremes in there, the wildest off road scenario was a dirt road in field of sunflowers...

[BigBikeBKK]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

Separate Function Forks aside, the CRF250L is still heavier, has less clearance and features lower spec suspension than the KLX250-

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

KLX rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

CRF250L front suspension: 43mm USD forks. Non adjustable.

CRF250L rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload.

Like Nikster said, the CRF250L will probably be cheaper and will certainly be more fuel efficient, but will be at a slight disadvantage for serious off road use due to weight, clearance and suspension. But for someone who just wants a fuel efficient bike that they can use on dirt roads and gentle off road it should be a great bike.

[dave_boo]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

P.s I'm am not having a dig at anyone specific on this forum just looking for answers to how people come to these conclusions without ever seeing or riding a bike,a guy on another forum has already decided to go for the klx and that's before he even knew about the front set up of the crf

The person you are not so subtly digging at is not particularly on my 'friends' list; however he does have a point the forks are lower spec. Even though there is some nice tech going into the CRF fork, for advanced riding-and those that know what they are doing-nothing really beats having adjustable suspenders.

He also has a point about the weight; 5kg is a difference. It would be interesting to see where it sits however. Others, experienced off road riders, have mentioned the issue of the added strain it puts on you during a ride earlier in this thread; is the weight distributed the same as the KLX or does it sit lower and thus does not feel as heavy?

I also question as to whether those (cm?) matter when you are talking about ground clearance that is at or above the front axle. I could be super wrong about it though!

I also take exception to the ignoring of the power (and power to weight) that I keep bringing up. It was such a huge issue in other discussions and yet here the CRF detractors are curiously silent. It would seem that the CRF's power won't be that far off of the 350 upgrades that are common on these bikes (and yes that was a major middle finger because even though the peak HP will be similar the low end torque will be much better on the upgraded KLX...but those same people don't care about torque do they; disparaginly calling torquey bikes 'diesel vans').

[taninthai]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

Separate Function Forks aside, the CRF250L is still heavier, has less clearance and features lower spec suspension than the KLX250-

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

KLX rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

CRF250L front suspension: 43mm USD forks. Non adjustable.

CRF250L rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload.

Like Nikster said, the CRF250L will probably be cheaper and will certainly be more fuel efficient, but will be at a slight disadvantage for serious off road use due to weight, clearance and suspension. But for someone who just wants a fuel efficient bike that they can use on dirt roads and gentle off road it should be a great bike.

Ok so as I said Im no expert all I know about shocks is that ohlins and yss are good ,so what is the difference between adjustable damping and adjustable preload also it's claimed that these forks on the crf are fitted to the kawa 250f which is a full on motocross bike so are we saying the klx 250s has better forks than the 250f.

I also am wondering does weight of rider effect ground clearance example I'm only 60 kg comparing me sitting on a crf to someone say 85 kg sitting on a klx.

Oh and the weight seems to be confirmed at 143kg looking at the exhaust on the crf it looks like it's made of cast iron that will definitely be coming off so no point going on about weight as really when people have took of parts they don't need these bikes are gonna be about the same weight give or take 2-3 kg they will be so close it might even come down to which ever 1 has the most petrol in would way more.

[BigBikeBKK]

Do we know anything about power and torque of the new Honda other than the figures from the manufacturer? Has the CRF250L been on an independent dyno yet?

[karlos]

Very simply put

Preload is the amount of tension you can put the front and/or rear springs under, it allows the rider to factor in his/her's weight to limit the reduction in ride height (sag) and have the suspension working in it's most effective range (mid stroke)

rebound adjustment, is the amount of restriction the rider creates by opening or closing an oil valve within the fork legs / rear shock, creating more restriction makes the fork return to it's static position (full length) slower, creating less restriction causes the fork / shock to return to it's static position quicker, having very little rebound induces a more wollowy, bouncy ride.

Compression adjustment, has the same basic principles as rebound adjustment but is effective when the fork is moving upwards / being compressed.

Ground clearance would not be an issue for you (60kg) on the CRF and let’s say an 80kg guy on the KLX, as the KLX can compensate for the extra weight and dial out a fair amount of 'sag', you on the CRF might find yourself with even less ground clearance than a set up KLX...

[BigBikeBKK]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

Separate Function Forks aside, the CRF250L is still heavier, has less clearance and features lower spec suspension than the KLX250-

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

KLX rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

CRF250L front suspension: 43mm USD forks. Non adjustable.

CRF250L rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload.

Like Nikster said, the CRF250L will probably be cheaper and will certainly be more fuel efficient, but will be at a slight disadvantage for serious off road use due to weight, clearance and suspension. But for someone who just wants a fuel efficient bike that they can use on dirt roads and gentle off road it should be a great bike.

Ok so as I said Im no expert all I know about shocks is that ohlins and yss are good ,so what is the difference between adjustable damping and adjustable preload also it's claimed that these forks on the crf are fitted to the kawa 250f which is a full on motocross bike so are we saying the klx 250s has better forks than the 250f.

I also am wondering does weight of rider effect ground clearance example I'm only 60 kg comparing me sitting on a crf to someone say 85 kg sitting on a klx.

Oh and the weight seems to be confirmed at 143kg looking at the exhaust on the crf it looks like it's made of cast iron that will definitely be coming off so no point going on about weight as really when people have took of parts they don't need these bikes are gonna be about the same weight give or take 2-3 kg they will be so close it might even come down to which ever 1 has the most petrol in would way more.

"it's claimed that these forks on the crf are fitted to the kawa 250f"

Where in the world did you read that nonsense?

The KX250f is a race bike with 47 mm inverted Separate Function front Fork (SFF) with 22-position compression and 20-position rebound damping and rear Uni-Trak linkage system shock with 13-way low-speed and 2-turn high-speed compression damping, 17-way rebound damping and stepless adjustable spring preload.

I guess perhaps you're referring to the fact that the Honda CRF250L has Separate Function Forks? But they are 43mm and completely non adjustable. Nothing like the top spec fully adjustable 47mm forks on the KX250f. Then again, no one is going to race the CRF250L

[BigBikeBKK]

Being able to adjust the suspension sag of your bike is critically important to balance and handling.

Even more so on dirt bikes with their long travel suspension.

Fantastic explanation of the importance of correct suspension set up here:

[JonnyF]

Ok so it's getting interesting now we have had white a few comments here about the suspension fitted to the crf mainly comments to the effect that it's crap anyway know turns out it has a pretty good front fork setup same as a full on kawa moto cross bike.

I'm no expert but today I have been reading up on pro link and uni-trak suspension it turns out it's just the linkage system they use and it seems Honda invented this system and then the others just copied it and gave it a different name So why do we keep getting comments of the crf suspension is no good even mentioned today on here that the crf set up will be no good for road use.

P.s I'm am not having a dig at anyone specific on this forum just looking for answers to how people come to these conclusions without ever seeing or riding a bike,a guy on another forum has already decided to go for the klx and that's before he even knew about the front set up of the crf

The person you are not so subtly digging at is not particularly on my 'friends' list; however he does have a point the forks are lower spec. Even though there is some nice tech going into the CRF fork, for advanced riding-and those that know what they are doing-nothing really beats having adjustable suspenders.

He also has a point about the weight; 5kg is a difference. It would be interesting to see where it sits however. Others, experienced off road riders, have mentioned the issue of the added strain it puts on you during a ride earlier in this thread; is the weight distributed the same as the KLX or does it sit lower and thus does not feel as heavy?

I also question as to whether those (cm?) matter when you are talking about ground clearance that is at or above the front axle. I could be super wrong about it though!

I also take exception to the ignoring of the power (and power to weight) that I keep bringing up. It was such a huge issue in other discussions and yet here the CRF detractors are curiously silent. It would seem that the CRF's power won't be that far off of the 350 upgrades that are common on these bikes (and yes that was a major middle finger because even though the peak HP will be similar the low end torque will be much better on the upgraded KLX...but those same people don't care about torque do they; disparaginly calling torquey bikes 'diesel vans').

There is a big difference between desirable engine characteristics on a dirt bike and a road bike though. I think this platform (single cylinder with a lot of torque down low) is actually a really good platform for a 'dirt bike' like a CRF250L, as you'd expect as the engine is derived from a real dirt bike, the CRF250R. The rest of the rumours surrounding the bike (high weight, low ground clearance, suspension not fully adjustable etc.) look like a disappointment if true, but the engine looks reasonably strong and a good format for the bike.

Most of the talk about 'diesel vans' was directed at the CB'r' rather than the CRF. Most people prefer at least 2 cylinders on a road bike which is why there was a lot of surprise and disappointment when the new CB'r' had a single cylinder vs. the far superior inline 4 of the previous version.

[johnboy3739w]

so when is it going to be in the showrooms ?

[BigBikeBKK]

so when is it going to be in the showrooms ?

APe Honda staff at Bangkok Motor Show completely clueless (as usual)...

Price? Mai ru...

Sales Date? Mai ru...

You have a spec sheet? Mai mee...

Unbelievable!

[dave_boo]

Do we know anything about power and torque of the new Honda other than the figures from the manufacturer? Has the CRF250L been on an independent dyno yet?

Well, we know that Honda is using the same engine as the CBR 250R, and real world dynos have it at 23 RWHP (see dyno below), so if Honda is claiming a reduction of 3 HP than I reckon that it's not hard to see where the claims it will have a more HP come from. Second dyno is a KLX with an aftermarket ECU.

[taninthai]

Thanks for replies on suspension little clearer now.

Apparently there is already a little black box available in japan to derestrict the crf there is a picture on one of the forums we are not allowed to mention.

[BigBikeBKK]

Do we know anything about power and torque of the new Honda other than the figures from the manufacturer? Has the CRF250L been on an independent dyno yet?

Well, we know that Honda is using the same engine as the CBR 250R, and real world dynos have it at 23 RWHP (see dyno below), so if Honda is claiming a reduction of 3 HP than I reckon that it's not hard to see where the claims it will have a more HP come from. Second dyno is a KLX with an aftermarket ECU.

Yo Dave,

"deslimitada" does not mean "aftermarket" bro...

And the chart you posted is for a KLX250X.

What is a KLX250X? A quick search turns up nothing...

Your comparing a CB'r' 250 with aftermarket pipe and juice box against a stock KLX"X" with de-restricted ECU? (and no idea WHICH kind or "deslimitada" de-restriction we're talking about as there are many).

How much more irrelevant can you get? Now, if you can post up a dyno of a KLX250S with aftermarket pipe and fuel injection controller we might have something to compare, but with the charts you've chosen it's apples and oranges.

Rumor has it that the CRF250L sold in Thailand will be restricted in similar fashion to the KLX. And that the extra weight of the Thai CRF250L is due to a larger, heavier exhaust; needed to get past the silly Thai emissions standard. (Anyone notice the Thai-made Diavel is heavier than the one from Italy? Again- it's due to bigger heavier exhaust). Hopefully if the CRF250L is restricted it will be just as easy to de-restrict as the KLX250.

Honda has already stated that the engine in the CRF250L is tuned for more torque and less horsepower. I'm guessing that do accomplish this the CRF250L will have different cams and ignition timing, perhaps different compression as well. It makes a lot more sense to use the single in a CRF dirtbike than in a CB'r' roadbike, so at least they got that part right.

[BigBikeBKK]

Thanks for replies on suspension little clearer now.

Apparently there is already a little black box available in japan to derestrict the crf there is a picture on one of the forums we are not allowed to mention.

You're allowed to mention other forums, just not link to them.

So please tell us more- there's an aftermarket box (ecu? efi? ignition? other?) for the CRF250L even though it hasn't gone on sale yet?

Or it's a box meant for the CB'r' 250 and folks are hoping it will work with the CRF250L?

[taninthai]

Thanks for replies on suspension little clearer now.

Apparently there is already a little black box available in japan to derestrict the crf there is a picture on one of the forums we are not allowed to mention.

You're allowed to mention other forums, just not link to them.

So please tell us more- there's an aftermarket box (ecu? efi? ignition? other?) for the CRF250L even though it hasn't gone on sale yet?

Or it's a box meant for the CB'r' 250 and folks are hoping it will work with the CRF250L?

No according to the packing label it is for the crf 250l don't know how reliable this info is on motorcycle in Thailand though have a look at their crf topic and you can see the pic

[dave_boo]

There is a big difference between desirable engine characteristics on a dirt bike and a road bike though. I think this platform (single cylinder with a lot of torque down low) is actually a really good platform for a 'dirt bike' like a CRF250L, as you'd expect as the engine is derived from a real dirt bike, the CRF250R. The rest of the rumours surrounding the bike (high weight, low ground clearance, suspension not fully adjustable etc.) look like a disappointment if true, but the engine looks reasonably strong and a good format for the bike.

Most of the talk about 'diesel vans' was directed at the CB'r' rather than the CRF. Most people prefer at least 2 cylinders on a road bike which is why there was a lot of surprise and disappointment when the new CB'r' had a single cylinder vs. the far superior inline 4 of the previous version.

Really? Is that why the 'real' dirt bikes in the 250cc class have it the exact opposite of what you claim? YZ250F...34 HP (19 lb-ft); CFR250X...32.5 HP (18 lb-ft); Husqvarna TE250...31 HP (22 lb-ft); etc. Now most of the big 'uns (450 and above) have the characteristics you are talking about.

I will go out on a limb here and question whether that fully adjustable suspension is gong to matter much; to get it fine tuned enough to actually notice the difference are you going to be able to push either bike that hard? Are either bike going to handle the type of terrain where that cm or two that is at or above the axle line is going to matter? And for chrissakes people, it's 5kg! Grow a pair, work out and deal with the added weight (assuming that it is up high where y'all pansies can't handle it). Or if you are that concerned, take all the money you are probably going to save buying the cheaper bike and eat healthy and get the 5kg back.

[dave_boo]

Yo Dave,

"deslimitada" does not mean "aftermarket" bro...

And the chart you posted is for a KLX250X.

What is a KLX250X? A quick search turns up nothing...

Your comparing a CB'r' 250 with aftermarket pipe and juice box against a stock KLX"X" with de-restricted ECU? (and no idea WHICH kind or "deslimitada" de-restriction we're talking about as there are many).

How much more irrelevant can you get? Now, if you can post up a dyno of a KLX250S with aftermarket pipe and fuel injection controller we might have something to compare, but with the charts you've chosen it's apples and oranges.

Rumor has it that the CRF250L sold in Thailand will be restricted in similar fashion to the KLX. And that the extra weight of the Thai CRF250L is due to a larger, heavier exhaust; needed to get past the silly Thai emissions standard. (Anyone notice the Thai-made Diavel is heavier than the one from Italy? Again- it's due to bigger heavier exhaust). Hopefully if the CRF250L is restricted it will be just as easy to de-restrict as the KLX250.

Honda has already stated that the engine in the CRF250L is tuned for more torque and less horsepower. I'm guessing that do accomplish this the CRF250L will have different cams and ignition timing, perhaps different compression as well. It makes a lot more sense to use the single in a CRF dirtbike than in a CB'r' roadbike, so at least they got that part right.

You know what, you are right; it is not a fair comparison. The original thread on Kawi's forum was a WITH a Power Commander. I have no clue why it is labled "X" unless it was a typo because, as you know the "X" is right below the "S" or the poster was being cute.

You do have an understanding that pipe manufacturers put their baselines on the charts to show off how much increase there is, right? You can understand that, no? And the 23 HP goes well with Honda's claim of 26 crankshaft as that's ~12% drivetrain loss and what's usually expected for motorcycles.