Popular Post Dave9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2012 I recently watched a documentary about Black America. It seems to me there are some parallels between being black in the US and being white in Thailand. This morning, I spotted a dog which was in the process of defecating on our driveway. In itself this is an unpleasant occurrence, but it became totally antisocial when the Thai owner of the dog berated me for turning the hose on the animal. I had not seen the owner; if I had I would have told him to call the animal to heel and offered him a plastic bag to pick up the crap with. Apparently the dog’s owner thought I was in the wrong by preferring the pooch to crap in an alternate location to the guesthouse driveway. I cleaned up the mess, successfully fought the urge to hose the owner as I had his animal, and went inside to relate the story to my wife. In the course of things, I suggested that as we are in the tourist business, perhaps we should speak up about the dog problem on our streets. I cited the Balinese example, where roaming packs of street dogs are being culled because of the threat they pose to tourists. Given that tourism is a major industry in Thailand, this seems a reasonable call. My wife astounded me by saying of the tourists “it’s up to them”. Yes it is I replied, “They can choose to advertise their displeasure through the ether on social networking sites, or we can confront the local government and try to take affirmative action”. I was then told I think too much. That we can’t do anything, and we should only be concerned with our own lives. Well, the conversation gravitated to the effects of people power, Cory Aquino, Aun San Suu Kyi and so on. It culminated with her saying to me, “You must say nothing. You can do nothing. People will hate you. YOU ARE JUST A FALANG”. “I am JUST a Falang”? “Yes. JUST a Falang”! She continued, “You can be happy in Thailand if we only think for our future, in our home". “Mai bpen rai”. I asked, "Mai bpen rai"! she answered. I understand the ‘don’t-rock-the-boat’ culture. I realise the man with the dog has become insignificant to the story (except that he may have behaved differently if my wife had been holding the hose instead of me), but, with details of the documentary still clear in my head, I realised we are the lower caste. We can’t own property, we can’t vote and we can’t express freely our opinions without the rider, ‘But he’s just a falang’. Okay, we were not impressed into service by slave traders, and we did arrive by choice. But I am beginning to question the rectitude of my choice as I ponder yet another periodic trip which is necessary every 90 days, despite being given permission to retire in Thailand. I would be better placed in this society if I was a pauper recently arrived from Burma with a dozen equally poor relatives, all of whom will be, for a time at least, a drain on the Thai economy. I am not a sensitive type, nor am I a revolutionary, but, neither am I second class! What is the choice? Do I accept my new found social class, do I attempt to confront the system, or do I accept that for change to occur, that change, on a personal level, needs to be geographic. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpunker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yeah thais are racist.Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditallbefore Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Dump your crap ole' lady and find a good one who will stand up for you. You are being used. Been there, done that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 We are guests here and always will be. If you had a guest in your home and they started to tell you how to do things, you would show them the door. Thailand never made false promises to expats, from the moment you arrive, it's made perfectly clear, you will be tolerated and nothing more. Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ludditeman Posted January 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) We are guests here and always will be. If you had a guest in your home and they started to tell you how to do things, you would show them the door. Thailand never made false promises to expats, from the moment you arrive, it's made perfectly clear, you will be tolerated and nothing more. Jim The OP clearly stated he is on retirement. You invite guests and you don't ask them to pay, nobody invited us and we pay to stay here, therefore we aren't guests. They are selling him a product, which makes him a customer. If I were a paying customer, I would expect a certain standard of service. Some foreigners aren't customers and may not be entitled to the same standards of service. Edited January 16, 2012 by ludditeman 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Semper Posted January 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let your wife clean up the mess from the dog next time, maybe she'll change her opinion. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post samran Posted January 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) here we go, another 'poor bugger me' thread. Dunno when people are going to realise it, for the most part in Thailand, if you are white, then you are generally viewed as being closer to the top of the social heap, rather than the bottom. Try pulling the same trick if you were a issan night guard or, god forbid, a Burmese worker...... Edited January 16, 2012 by samran 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 About the doggy problem. I use pepper around my gate once they get a sniff they never come back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave9000 Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 here we go, another 'poor bugger me' thread. Dunno when people are going to realise it, for the most part in Thailand, if you are white, then you are generally viewed as being closer to the top of the social heap, rather than the bottom. Try pulling the same trick if you were a issan night guard or, god forbid, a Burmese worker...... Well, another chance for you to pontificate! It is not a 'Poor bugger me' thread. It is an observation of fact, not an emotional opinion piece. If you are as knowledgable as you believe, try to offer something positive...try to make a contribution. Simplistic sniping is of little value to anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thehelmsman Posted January 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2012 Dave9000 What you said about Farang in Thailand and Blacks in America being similiar is way false. What you see on documentaries is what they want you to see. The perception that people have of America based solely what you see on TV is a single minded view. I talked to a guy from Belgium and he told me he'd never visit America because everyone smoked crack and carried a gun. As for the dog problem - follow your wifes advice. Don't think too much. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 We are guests here and always will be. If you had a guest in your home and they started to tell you how to do things, you would show them the door. Thailand never made false promises to expats, from the moment you arrive, it's made perfectly clear, you will be tolerated and nothing more. Jim You shouldn't attempt to speak for us or present yourself in such a fashion, Jim. We're really not all the same. A handful of us don't see ourselves as guest or strangers, because it's not terribly foreign. More than tolerated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A gate and wall combo a la Chinese style (9 feet tall) would keep the neighbour's pooping dog out or a dog of your own that considered the driveway as its territory. Re discrimination, you need to take steps to climb the greasy status pole in Thailand. Joining the right clubs, societies, cultivating the right friendships, giving your time and effort to the right people may move you up a few notches. Boring, exhausting and mainly pointless though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I don't think the initial topic has much to do with race. It's just an asshol_e neighbor; they exist all over the world, their dogs poop on lawns owned by people of all races. Next time continue hosing the dog and tell the neighbor to <deleted> off. I don't really see why you had to get into with the wife about culing dogs in Bali to please the tourists...seriously <deleted> does this have to do with a neighbor dog pooing on your lawn...? Edited January 16, 2012 by dave111223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) here we go, another 'poor bugger me' thread. Dunno when people are going to realise it, for the most part in Thailand, if you are white, then you are generally viewed as being closer to the top of the social heap, rather than the bottom. Try pulling the same trick if you were a issan night guard or, god forbid, a Burmese worker...... Well, another chance for you to pontificate! It is not a 'Poor bugger me' thread. It is an observation of fact, not an emotional opinion piece. If you are as knowledgable as you believe, try to offer something positive...try to make a contribution. Simplistic sniping is of little value to anyone. Well, lets start with this: - You being chastised by a dog owner gets you relating your experience to some form of social discrimination, and indeed, discrimination against black people in the US? Gimme a break. This isn't Rosa Parks territory. - You came across a grumpy - probably <deleted> of a dog owner, but that is it. Did you even bother to respond to him with something along the lines of "your dog just did a sh!t in my front yard...I'm in the right here"??. Or did you - excuse the pun - roll over. - Do you have proof that that particular dog owner would have acted differently if you were Thai? Probably not. And I'm guessing he would have pulled the same stunt regardless of who you were, or what nationality you were. - Same for the conversation with you wife, I'm betting that Edited January 16, 2012 by samran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I don't think the initial topic has much to do with race. It's just an asshol_e neighbor; they exist all over the world, their dogs poop on lawns owned by people of all races. Next time continue hosing the dog and tell the neighbor to <deleted> off. I don't really see why you had to get into with the wife about culing dogs in Bali to please the tourists...seriously <deleted> does this have to do with a neighbor dog pooing on your lawn...? ...and who in their right mind would live next door to a guesthouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 We are guests here and always will be. If you had a guest in your home and they started to tell you how to do things, you would show them the door. Thailand never made false promises to expats, from the moment you arrive, it's made perfectly clear, you will be tolerated and nothing more. Jim You shouldn't attempt to speak for us or present yourself in such a fashion, Jim. We're really not all the same. A handful of us don't see ourselves as guest or strangers, because it's not terribly foreign. More than tolerated. Well take it you have PR or a Thai passport. The rest of us have to keep getting permission to stay, I'm not complaining about the system, I choose to live here, but I will never be a Thai. They can put me on a plane when ever they want, or refuse me entry. It's their country and their right. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWalkingMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Shame about your wife's views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I don't think the initial topic has much to do with race. It's just an asshol_e neighbor; they exist all over the world, their dogs poop on lawns owned by people of all races. Next time continue hosing the dog and tell the neighbor to <deleted> off. I don't really see why you had to get into with the wife about culing dogs in Bali to please the tourists...seriously <deleted> does this have to do with a neighbor dog pooing on your lawn...? It is amaizing how dog doo doo turns into discrimination! The OP ends up taking it out on the wife because she says don't make a big deal out of it. Why didn't you hose down the owner as well? or better still follow him home and deposit the doo doo in his front yard. I think you need to keep things in perspective and not build it all into something Just because of how American africans were/are treated in the USA. I can't remember when a farang was linched for looking at a Thai lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly Edited January 16, 2012 by Livinginexile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I agree with Jim's views of who, what and where we are. We do not PAY to stay here. We stay here on our own free will and paying for day to day living expenses do not give us any special entitlement or status. We are guests', not customers. To the OP, we have to weigh up the pros and cons. There are times I get so frustrated with this country and it's people but resign myself to the fact that this is unlikely to change in my lifetime. On the plus side, I still feel that it's one of the best countries in the world to live in, retire to. We just have to keep playing by the rules if we want to continue staying here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 here we go, another 'poor bugger me' thread. Dunno when people are going to realise it, for the most part in Thailand, if you are white, then you are generally viewed as being closer to the top of the social heap, rather than the bottom. Try pulling the same trick if you were a issan night guard or, god forbid, a Burmese worker...... Well, another chance for you to pontificate! It is not a 'Poor bugger me' thread. It is an observation of fact, not an emotional opinion piece. If you are as knowledgable as you believe, try to offer something positive...try to make a contribution. Simplistic sniping is of little value to anyone. Well, lets start with this: - You being chastised by a dog owner gets you relating your experience to some form of social discrimination, and indeed, discrimination against black people in the US? Gimme a break. This isn't Rosa Parks territory. - You came across a grumpy - probably <deleted> of a dog owner, but that is it. Did you even bother to respond to him with something along the lines of "your dog just did a sh!t in my front yard...I'm in the right here"??. Or did you - excuse the pun - roll over. - Do you have proof that that particular dog owner would have acted differently if you were Thai? Probably not. And I'm guessing he would have pulled the same stunt regardless of who you were, or what nationality you were. - Same for the conversation with you wife, I'm betting that Have to agree here with Samran, your usually higher in status. You just found a idiot Thai, there are many of those same as in every country. I do feel im being discriminated with the land part but that is an other point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I cought you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly Dont agree.. if i find my dogs shitting in front of someone opposed to in the park ill clean it up. Even though there are enough other dogs doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardenedSoul Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I don't think the root of the OP's problem lies in the average Thai's perception of him but rather in that of his wife's. Still, he's entitled to put the issue up for debate. It would be a start if the white folks would get it straight in their own minds: Does their white skin propel them towards the top of Thailand's social strata or does it make them a target for "racism"? Surely it can't be both? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 About the doggy problem. I use pepper around my gate once they get a sniff they never come back. good solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly What if one doesn't have a gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 "I recently watched a documentary about Black America. It seems to me there are some parallels between being black in the US and being white in Thailand. This morning, I spotted a dog which was in the process of defecating on our driveway" Dave9000, as stated in your OP, what are some of the parallels you noticed from the doco? You have stated 'lower caste' as one. Which other parallels do you find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly Clearly dogs do have some social graces. You don't often see them pooping in their owners house or in their own bedding. I'm sure the dog was scarred physically and mentally from the hose down. A good punch in the nose would have fixed that owner right up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daoyai Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly Sure is easy to provoke a violent assault from you, get help. Giving a dog a "songkran" treatment is rather mild and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose! It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut! I think you got off lightly What if one doesn't have a gate? Put up a sign "Trespassing Stray Dogs Will Be Shot" (in Thai) Edited January 16, 2012 by Semper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is Blue Monday already upon us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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