8 Professions To Face Tough Competition From Foreigners: Thailand

[webfact]

8 professions to face tough competition

Thanongsak Muennoo

Duangkamon Sajirawattakul

The Nation

Members of eight professions look set to face fierce competition from foreigners after the Asean Economic Community (AEC) materialises in 2015, according to a senior official at the Labour Ministry.

"I believe there will be particularly high competition among doctors, nurses, engineers and architects," Singhadej Chu-amnart said yesterday. He heads the ministry's International Cooperation Bureau.

He said the AEC would pave the way for the free flow of skilled labour in eight professions. Asean members have already made agreements to facilitate free labour movement among seven types of professionals: doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers, architects, accountants and surveyors.

"We are going to conclude the agreement on workers in the tourism trade soon. This is the eighth profession," Singhadej said. In the tourism industry, "professionals" will include receptionists, laundry attendants, tour guides, cleaners and more.

Singhadej said professional bodies governing doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers and architects in Thailand had worked out criteria for professionals in their fields to ensure they met Mutual Recognition Arrangements agreed to by all Asean nations.

"Malaysian professionals will likely pose the biggest challenge to Thais."

He played down concerns that many Thai nurses and doctors might move to work in foreign countries after the AEC materialises. "Today, the pay for nurses and doctors in Thailand is soaring. Besides, I believe Thais want to work in their homeland much more than taking a job overseas."

He said available information also showed that many foreigners holding a degree in medicine now worked as medical assistants at private hospitals in Thailand. He said there were now up to 40 foreigners holding degrees in medicine per 100 Thai doctors at large Thai private medical facilities.

"Because of current laws, they can't work as doctors here even if they have been trained as doctors." He noted there were up to 24 foreigners holding degrees in nursing per 100 Thai nurses at private hospitals in Thailand.

Medical Council adviser Dr Somsak Lohlekha said he did not think doctors would be able to cross borders easily after the AEC materialises. "Foreigners with a degree in medicine will have to pass tests organised by professional bodies in each country anyway," he said.

He pointed out that Thailand's Medical Council, for example, would still hold tests for foreigners to pass before they could start working as doctors here.

"To date, most foreigners fail the test because of language/cultural barriers," Somsak said.

-- The Nation 2012-01-17

[clockman]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

[OZEMADE]

What is the average Thai policeman's wage per month, I hear it is between 8000 and 10,000 Baht.

[ludditeman]

As far as I know working in any part of the Tourist industry is not considered a profession.

[ludditeman]

What is the average Thai policeman's wage per month, I hear it is between 8000 and 10,000 Baht.

Most of their pay comes in plain envelopes.

When they want a bank loan, etc. they aren't even required to show their salary, just their badge.

[bendejo]

Any Malaysian professional who is good at their work and is willing to leave their country will set their sights higher, like Oz, Europe, or North America. The ones who got through school by looking over someone's shoulder will take what they can get, and I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with them.

[jaltsc]

As far as I know working in any part of the Tourist industry is not considered a profession.

I must disagree...Those working in certain parts of the Thai tourist industry are engaged in the world's oldest profession!!!

[Reasonableman]

The requirement of Thai language fluency will knock most other nationalities out of the race for professional positions, such as doctors. Only those already living long-term in Thailand, who should possess satisfactory Thai-language skills, may have better opportunities.

[thequietman]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

In the 9 years I have been living here, I have visited the goverment hospitals on a number of occasions. Everytime thai family members have to stay with their sick relatives 24/7 as the nurses wont look after the patients. this puts a huge financial strain on families as that person cant work and so income is lost. if you go into any government hospitals you will see this every where. I notice the nurses are there but they are on their mobiles or just gossiping together. if you ask them for assistance, they draw exception to this. basically i think they are very lazy and this is reflected in their wages.

If your wife worked in a private hospital, then I apologise and withdraw my remarks.

[h90]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

[Bakseedaa]

The requirement of Thai language fluency will knock most other nationalities out of the race for professional positions, such as doctors. Only those already living long-term in Thailand, who should possess satisfactory Thai-language skills, may have better opportunities.

You hit the nail right on the head....

[alexakap]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

Daily?

PS: dont judge on their looking. I just sold my Blackberry phone (new/unopened) to the fella motorbike driver just under my window. I never met him before nor have any relations with. I just asked him to ride me to MBK (where I can sell the thing out), he asked "Pai shoppin' ror" while riding me, I answered "No, just going to sell the mobile which is not match with me", he immediately stopped and politely asked me to show the thing to him. I did, 10min conversation, bingo!

The fella had 10.000 THB just in his pocket (and that was not all he had). A small banknotes, yes (so we spent some time while counting, hehe). Hey, me myself usually have NO 10.000THB in cash on my pocket....

Edited January 17, 2012 by alexakap

[sparebox2]

Think of the bright side. These 8 profession can get work in other countries like Singapore, and be paid 10 times (my estimation) more than what they are taking right now.

[jonclark]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

[smedly]

The knock on effect of this will be a mass exit of Proffessionals from Thailand which in turn will mean that in order to keep them here salaries will have to increase which in turn will raise taxes etc and Thailand with become either a very expensive place to live or have an economic melt down providing the latter won't have already happened by 2015, all in all it just looks pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

[soomak]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

No motorcycle taxi driver makes more than 20,000 baht after expenses (mostly gas costs).

I've done the calculations in my neighborhood (Bangkok), and it is not possible, unless he works 30 days a month, 12 hours per day.

Most of them will make in the range of 10-15 thousand per month after expenses.

[djayz]

The knock on effect of this will be a mass exit of Proffessionals from Thailand which in turn will mean that in order to keep them here salaries will have to increase which in turn will raise taxes etc and Thailand with become either a very expensive place to live or have an economic melt down providing the latter won't have already happened by 2015, all in all it just looks pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

Regarding the "mass exit" I partially agree. Only Thais who can speak another language fluently or near fluently will have a chance of getting a job in neighbouring AEC countries. Judging by their English I'd say very, very few have a decent chance...

[scorecard]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

'Survive' might be a better word.

[scorecard]

The knock on effect of this will be a mass exit of Proffessionals from Thailand which in turn will mean that in order to keep them here salaries will have to increase which in turn will raise taxes etc and Thailand with become either a very expensive place to live or have an economic melt down providing the latter won't have already happened by 2015, all in all it just looks pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

Regarding the "mass exit" I partially agree. Only Thais who can speak another language fluently or near fluently will have a chance of getting a job in neighbouring AEC countries. Judging by their English I'd say very, very few have a decent chance...

There's another point here. I can tell you that many regional and international companies (operating n Thailand) have tried to get their promising Thai staff to go abroad for experience. Most refuse, mostly because 'it's too difficult to get Thai food',

[impulse]

In the 9 years I have been living here, I have visited the goverment hospitals on a number of occasions. Everytime thai family members have to stay with their sick relatives 24/7 as the nurses wont look after the patients. this puts a huge financial strain on families as that person cant work and so income is lost. if you go into any government hospitals you will see this every where. I notice the nurses are there but they are on their mobiles or just gossiping together. if you ask them for assistance, they draw exception to this. basically i think they are very lazy and this is reflected in their wages.

In fairness, if you asked 100 Thai's whether they would prefer to take care of their own family, or pay higher (lots higher) fees to get the service you're wanting, they'd prefer to save the money. I spent literally hundreds of days in Chinese hospitals and it's the same way. It took awhile for me to see that most of the patients in with my GF were too poor and barely able to pay the hospital bills, much less for a nutritionist, maid, etc. etc. As a solution, every hospital has a group of women that hire out by the day to take care of relatives. In China, it's about $60-75 per day- or a family member can do it and save that money. (They actually had a little "mafia" thing going where all the ladies were from the same hometown and shunned those who weren't but that's another story).

You want western style care, be ready to pay western style prices. Most Asians can't so I'm glad they have the choice because I couldn't afford western prices for my GF's condition.

[moe666]

In the 9 years I have been living here, I have visited the goverment hospitals on a number of occasions. Everytime thai family members have to stay with their sick relatives 24/7 as the nurses wont look after the patients. this puts a huge financial strain on families as that person cant work and so income is lost. if you go into any government hospitals you will see this every where. I notice the nurses are there but they are on their mobiles or just gossiping together. if you ask them for assistance, they draw exception to this. basically i think they are very lazy and this is reflected in their wages.

In fairness, if you asked 100 Thai's whether they would prefer to take care of their own family, or pay higher (lots higher) fees to get the service you're wanting, they'd prefer to save the money. I spent literally hundreds of days in Chinese hospitals and it's the same way. It took awhile for me to see that most of the patients in with my GF were too poor and barely able to pay the hospital bills, much less for a nutritionist, maid, etc. etc. As a solution, every hospital has a group of women that hire out by the day to take care of relatives. In China, it's about $60-75 per day- or a family member can do it and save that money. (They actually had a little "mafia" thing going where all the ladies were from the same hometown and shunned those who weren't but that's another story).

You want western style care, be ready to pay western style prices. Most Asians can't so I'm glad they have the choice because I couldn't afford western prices for my GF's condition.

What makes you folks think the nursing care in the west is all that great. To cut cost most hospitals have the bare amount of staff especially nurses. When my mother was in the hospital my step father was there nearly 24/7 to assist her. There wwere no nurses hovering around to help. I was in Ram Hospital Chiang Mai for 10 days last year I did not need any help but they have staff over load especially nurse assistants. The nurses were paid 20,000baht a month and the assistances were paid 10,000baht.

[Pib]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

In the 9 years I have been living here, I have visited the goverment hospitals on a number of occasions. Everytime thai family members have to stay with their sick relatives 24/7 as the nurses wont look after the patients. this puts a huge financial strain on families as that person cant work and so income is lost. if you go into any government hospitals you will see this every where. I notice the nurses are there but they are on their mobiles or just gossiping together. if you ask them for assistance, they draw exception to this. basically i think they are very lazy and this is reflected in their wages.

If your wife worked in a private hospital, then I apologise and withdraw my remarks.

Your experience regarding Thai nurses is far different from mine based on my experience of visiting many of Thai family members in both public and private hospital over the years. It's not the nurses don't look after the patients as the do; it's just the Thai culture to have a family member stay with the patient 24/7 whenever possible and pamper to any need as fast as possible.

[MaiChai]

The knock on effect of this will be a mass exit of Proffessionals from Thailand which in turn will mean that in order to keep them here salaries will have to increase which in turn will raise taxes etc and Thailand with become either a very expensive place to live or have an economic melt down providing the latter won't have already happened by 2015, all in all it just looks pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

Think you have it spot on. Within the EU people migrate to wherever they can earn the best money. Example: mass migration of the Polish to the UK.

[Bagwan]

As far as I know working in any part of the Tourist industry is not considered a profession.

Not even the oldest profession?

[h90]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

and why do they work for me for 6K?

As well we frequently rent the motorbike guys from the soi and it costs usually 300-800 Baht for all the day driving, incl. the gasoline.

So why would they work for me if they can make more than 2000 per day in central Bangkok.

Recall the minimum salary in Thailand is approx. 200 Baht/day in Bangkok and it is a big issue that many companies pay less than the minimum.

[jonclark]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

and why do they work for me for 6K?

As well we frequently rent the motorbike guys from the soi and it costs usually 300-800 Baht for all the day driving, incl. the gasoline.

So why would they work for me if they can make more than 2000 per day in central Bangkok.

Recall the minimum salary in Thailand is approx. 200 Baht/day in Bangkok and it is a big issue that many companies pay less than the minimum.

300 - 800 Baht a day gives two very different monthly salaries based on a 25 day working month (7'500 - 20'000)

[Bagwan]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

Divide 60K by 30 giving a daily income of 2K. Divide 2K by 12 giving 166 baht per hour. If the average fare including tip is 42 baht this indicates 4 jobs per hour or 48 trips in a 12 hour period. Seems a tad excessive to me but then what do I know? I rate my chances of surviving a journey in BKK higher by taking a taxi.

If those proviving the service are grossing 60K I couldn't imagine the monthly cost of a jacket and working from a motorbike taxi stand to be less than 10K. Somebody is cleaning up big style. At 10K per head per month, the bossman will take on as many bikes as he can without regard to the income of his minions, in which case completing a job, returning from it and going off on another job every 15 minutes doesn't seem credible.

I asked the guy running two stands near my house in Jomtien, who has been a friend for years, and he burst into laughter when I mentioned this to him. BTW he has just started a part time job at a branch of KFC.

[xthAi76s]

In the 9 years I have been living here, I have visited the goverment hospitals on a number of occasions. Everytime thai family members have to stay with their sick relatives 24/7 as the nurses wont look after the patients. this puts a huge financial strain on families as that person cant work and so income is lost. if you go into any government hospitals you will see this every where. I notice the nurses are there but they are on their mobiles or just gossiping together. if you ask them for assistance, they draw exception to this. basically i think they are very lazy and this is reflected in their wages.

In fairness, if you asked 100 Thai's whether they would prefer to take care of their own family, or pay higher (lots higher) fees to get the service you're wanting, they'd prefer to save the money. I spent literally hundreds of days in Chinese hospitals and it's the same way. It took awhile for me to see that most of the patients in with my GF were too poor and barely able to pay the hospital bills, much less for a nutritionist, maid, etc. etc. As a solution, every hospital has a group of women that hire out by the day to take care of relatives. In China, it's about $60-75 per day- or a family member can do it and save that money. (They actually had a little "mafia" thing going where all the ladies were from the same hometown and shunned those who weren't but that's another story).

You want western style care, be ready to pay western style prices. Most Asians can't so I'm glad they have the choice because I couldn't afford western prices for my GF's condition.

I think there is an error of logic here.

Providing service comparable to that found generally in some western countries would not necessarily bring western prices.

If we simplify this, there are two things that comprise the bulk of the costs with respect to this topic. They are: 1) any goods, and 2) services - whose costs are comprised predominantly of labor. If both items, and especially the labor, are much cheaper here, there's no reason to think that providing a comparable service would cost bring western cost.

I do agree, however, that poorer Asian countries and even Hong Kong do tend to favor 'personal responsibility' (ala carte, or whatever you want to call it) over communal taxation and the services it provides. You see it here in Thailand everywhere. There's no tax base; nobody wants to pay for something they may not use. It's their style -- one that might change as/if average people here become much more prosperous.

[xthAi76s]

The knock on effect of this will be a mass exit of Proffessionals from Thailand which in turn will mean that in order to keep them here salaries will have to increase which in turn will raise taxes etc and Thailand with become either a very expensive place to live or have an economic melt down providing the latter won't have already happened by 2015, all in all it just looks pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

Regarding the "mass exit" I partially agree. Only Thais who can speak another language fluently or near fluently will have a chance of getting a job in neighbouring AEC countries. Judging by their English I'd say very, very few have a decent chance...

And, just a thought, but Thais who are actually 'educated' and who speak English tend to be somewhat privileged anyway. These privileged people do better in Thailand than they do in many other countries. They are able to exploit the system here -- the relationships and whatnot. I've known a decent deal of Thais who just couldn't make it in other, competitive countries like the US, Japan. They usually seem to find their way back to Thailand. I don't know how competitive an average Thai would be (who speaks say, English) in the ASEAN countries, though. An educated, privileged Thai might fare well in some of those even less developed countries. I find it really hard to believe that they would leave Thailand in any significant number

---

Other than the massive population of 'adult entertainment' workers around Thailand. You might get tones of those. Just like the Koreans -- exporting sex all over the world.

[otherstuff1957]

i take exception to this persons statement about nurses pay soaring. My wife was a nurse for 17 years and there has been no increase in salary for 10 years. And even now is only 15,000 bht a month! could you live on that?. They do the work but the Doctors get the big money. About 80,000 bht a month!

our accounting gets 8000 bht per month and she can live on that. Motorbike guys get 6000 Baht and can live with that

I think you should rephrase the statement to 'survive' on 8000bht per month. At that income level that's all your doing, surviving hand to mouth. I bet many of the motorbike guys, especially in central bangkok get more like 60'000 a month. In the provinces perhaps 6'000 is a good estimate.

Divide 60K by 30 giving a daily income of 2K. Divide 2K by 12 giving 166 baht per hour. If the average fare including tip is 42 baht this indicates 4 jobs per hour or 48 trips in a 12 hour period. Seems a tad excessive to me but then what do I know? I rate my chances of surviving a journey in BKK higher by taking a taxi.

If those proviving the service are grossing 60K I couldn't imagine the monthly cost of a jacket and working from a motorbike taxi stand to be less than 10K. Somebody is cleaning up big style. At 10K per head per month, the bossman will take on as many bikes as he can without regard to the income of his minions, in which case completing a job, returning from it and going off on another job every 15 minutes doesn't seem credible.

I asked the guy running two stands near my house in Jomtien, who has been a friend for years, and he burst into laughter when I mentioned this to him. BTW he has just started a part time job at a branch of KFC.

Some Mocyc drivers supplement their income with a bit of informal pharmaceutical dealing.