Why Do People Migrate?

[ravip]

After reading many forums and listening to discussions, the above question sprang to my mind. It is important to me personally, as I too have an idea of migrating in the future.

Different 'push and pull' factors are used to explain why people migrate. Obviously, the reason for voluntary human migration is to find 'greener pastures' – I doubt if anyone does so to get into a worst situation that he is in presently.

However, I have realized that although people migrate with great enthusiasm and optimism, no sooner they start their new life in their selected 'paradise', disillusionment start setting in. At this stage, they start complaining and finding all the faults in their new destination, completely forgetting (?) the reasons that attracted them there in the first place.

The worst stage of this phenomenon is, when they start to compare their 'new country' with their 'original country of birth'. Then, the people & their customs are bad, the government is bad, the infra-structure is bad, the weather is bad, traffic, health etc…

Next, the disillusionment escalates to a stage where the immigrant wants the host country to emulate his or her own country.

Hence, I spent awhile on the www looking for answers and been more observant about the subject at social gatherings etc. It was very interesting...

Migrations have occurred throughout human history, beginning with the movements of the first human groups from their origins in East Africa to their current location in the world.

In a society, it seems only a selected number of individuals who would opt to change their place of domicile permanently. For the rest (maybe the majority), the thought never occur in their mind.

Then why is it that so many human beings migrate voluntarily and then live a miserable life right throughout after?

A bad decision in life?

Unforeseen circumstances?

What percentage of migrants have really found their proverbial 'pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?'

Thank you in advance for your observations, comments.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...uman_migration

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...migration.html

http://globalizationetwinning.blogsp...e-migrate.html

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xp...idestudent.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebit...nds_rev2.shtml[/indent]

[Semper]

Then why is it that so many human beings migrate voluntarily and then live a miserable life right throughout after?

It's like getting married.

[Soutpeel]

Why do persons migrate ?...

Certainly in the case of Thailand.....Money or sex (or both)....

Yes we know all the esteemed members of TV came to Thailand for the temples and culture..

[samran]

Watch out there OP, you are using the 'wrong' terminology. Likely to get the natives angry.

From reading discussions over recent weeks on this board, it is clear that people don't consider themselves as migrants. Rather they view themselves as loftier expatriates. Allows them of course to beat up on migrants back home without sounding like hypocrites.

Reminds me of that old British show 'Keeping up appearances' where Mrs Bucket insisted her surname was pronounced 'Bouquet'.

Same same but not very different.

[wintermute]

Watch out there OP, you are using the 'wrong' terminology. Likely to get the natives angry.

From reading discussions over recent weeks on this board, it is clear that people don't consider themselves as migrants. Rather they view themselves as loftier expatriates. Allows them of course to beat up on migrants back home without sounding like hypocrites.

Reminds me of that old British show 'Keeping up appearances' where Mrs Bucket insisted her surname was pronounced 'Bouquet'.

Same same but not very different.

I agree there's a certain amount of hypocrisy involved but what I don't understand is the Thai classist and nativist sentiments you're always espousing considering your very origins consist of white "migration" from abroad onto "Thai" shores so to speak.

[kerryk]

I took a long time to make up my mind to migrate to Thailand. When I first came they didn't have refrigerators in many homes and no one had color TV. The phone service was awful. There was no Western food outside of Bangkok but the women were beautiful and liked to party. So I see little negative in the changes I have witnessed as the women are still beautiful and like to party. I can't say the same for the West as demonstrated by many posters on TV. Thailand pokes along at it's own speed but at least in general the direction is forward in my mind. The women are getting prettier and they like to party more every year it seems and I can't say that for the West. It all depends on what you consider important. For me it has always been Loose shoes, …...... and a warm place .. …..

[mjnaus]

You do realize that there are plenty of people (migrants) who ARE perfectly happy after the big move? I wouldn't be surprised if this applies to the majority. Just because you have a group of extremely vocal whiners around these forums doesn't mean this attitude applies across the board. I'd say, generally, people who are happy with their lives don't spend every living hour wining about it.

From all the other foreigners I've in my 8 years here in Thailand, most of them are happy with their choices. And those few who weren't, moved back to their home countries after a few year.

[flying]

Interesting topic/question

I will look at the links thanks....

It is something I have been wondering lately myself

The stages you describe seem obvious with what you called

the worst stage really standing out in my eyes recently in the

news section here.

But what I wonder is why then do folks stay when they reach that

"worst stage"?

[Pseudolus]

Coughlin's Law: anything else is always something better.

[endure]

Watch out there OP, you are using the 'wrong' terminology. Likely to get the natives angry.

From reading discussions over recent weeks on this board, it is clear that people don't consider themselves as migrants. Rather they view themselves as loftier expatriates. Allows them of course to beat up on migrants back home without sounding like hypocrites.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Different 'push and pull' factors are used to explain why people migrate. Obviously, the reason for voluntary human migration is to find 'greener pastures' – I doubt if anyone does so to get into a worst situation that he is in presently.

What percentage of migrants have really found their proverbial 'pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?'

I don't know (or care about) percentages, but I'm finding much greener pastures, along with honey-pots of gold.

[F1fanatic]

Interesting topic/question

I will look at the links thanks....

It is something I have been wondering lately myself

The stages you describe seem obvious with what you called

the worst stage really standing out in my eyes recently in the

news section here.

But what I wonder is why then do folks stay when they reach that

"worst stage"?

I'm sure we all have our own, different reasons for migrating.

A couple of years back (?) I can remember reading a thread about the 'stages' of living here - and it certainly applied to me.

Why do we stay here when going through the 'worst stage'? I suspect that depends on the individuals' circumstances.

1) Some cannot afford to go back to their home countries having lost their money

2) Some have children here and do not want to leave them

3) Some go back home, or elsewhere

4) Some, despite having enough money, wait it out for a while and eventually decide that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[dean999]

Old people like to moan. Simples.

[Berkshire]

From all the other foreigners I've in my 8 years here in Thailand, most of them are happy with their choices. And those few who weren't, moved back to their home countries after a few year.

The odd thing is that some of those who have left actually still post on TV...as if to convince everyone (or themselves) what a great choice they made. Very odd.

[F1fanatic]

From all the other foreigners I've in my 8 years here in Thailand, most of them are happy with their choices. And those few who weren't, moved back to their home countries after a few year.

The odd thing is that some of those who have left actually still post on TV...as if to convince everyone (or themselves) what a great choice they made. Very odd.

Name names!

[kerryk]

Old people like to moan. Simples.

I of course could be wrong but I think young people moan about old people more. Certainly on Thai Visa.

[Thongkorn]

People migrate for personal reasons, it also depends on where you migrate from.

[samran]

I agree there's a certain amount of hypocrisy involved but what I don't understand is the Thai classist and nativist sentiments you're always espousing considering your very origins consist of white "migration" from abroad onto "Thai" shores so to speak.

Wintermute.

Just to be clear that we are talking about the same concepts I am 'always' espousing.....

Would this be an example of my natavists position (from What Thai Visa Laws Would You Like to Change?) http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4934869

- automatic long term visa's and work rights for spouses and parents of Thai citizens, plus a predictable (though not necessarily rubber stamp) path to PR and eventually citizenship.

- Compulsory first class health insurance for all long term visa holders who are outside the Thai social security safety net.

- 2 or 3 year work permits.

- scrapping 90 day reporting, replaced with temp ID cards for all long term visa holders

- For all others, I'd want Thai immigration too harden the f*** up, no visa runs, no letting people take the piss out of tourist and education visa's, max 90 days in 180 stays.

- Criminal background questions on immigration forms, and like the US and most other western country's, automatic turn around at the airport if you've got anything resembling a criminal conviction without a pre-approved visa issued by a Thai embassy.

And would the following link be an example of my 'classist' sentiments? (From:

Registration For Illegal Burmese, Lao And Cambodian Migrant Workers)

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

As for my origins, you mistake me for someone else. I was born with a Thai passport, and am hardly white. Spanish looking maybe. But I do consider myself a migrant still, having grown up in Australia and educated and started my career there befor moving to Thailand. I define that as migration, even though I didn't need a visa.

I also migrated to the UK for a couple of years under the 'Highly Skilled Migrant Permit' before the weather, and a better job offer back in Thailand, got me.

Edited January 20, 2012 by samran

[GuestHouse]

Hat's off to the OP for the most original wrapping around a complaint about wingers I've seen in a long time.

The OP might have avoided this charge if s/he had discussed the far more common result of people migrating, that of settling into their new life and enjoying the bonus of having both their new culture/environment and their original culture/environment as rich sources of life experience to draw upon.

[farang000999]

If you are married it does not matter where you live, it will be in quiet desperation.

[kerryk]

If you are married it does not matter where you live, it will be in quiet desperation.

I would say that except for the gas station thing. My father would get tired of listening to my mother list his faults every day by about 8 PM. He'd take a couple of blood pressure pills, a tranquilizer and go get gas in the family car. In the back room of a lot of gas stations in the US there used to be a bar where you could get a shot with a beer back. He would have three of those and put them on the gas credit card. When he got home he didn't care what anyone said anymore. He passed out and went to sleep in the chair while she watched Lawrence Welk. Thailand has the same thing except there are women along with the gas and booze. I think Dad would have been happier getting gas in Thailand.

Edited January 20, 2012 by kerryk

[dean999]

Old people like to moan. Simples.

I of course could be wrong but I think young people moan about old people more. Certainly on Thai Visa.

Brilliant turn around. Like it.

I knew their was a reason why i like reading your posts.

[zzaa09]

Watch out there OP, you are using the 'wrong' terminology. Likely to get the natives angry.

From reading discussions over recent weeks on this board, it is clear that people don't consider themselves as migrants. Rather they view themselves as loftier expatriates. Allows them of course to beat up on migrants back home without sounding like hypocrites.

Reminds me of that old British show 'Keeping up appearances' where Mrs Bucket insisted her surname was pronounced 'Bouquet'.

Same same but not very different.

Well thought out, Samran.

I figure that Ravip's OP is quite a reasonable and lucid inquiry. Probably one of the more cognitive challenges and criticism, along the lines of related subject matter, in recent memory here at TV.

[zzaa09]

Hat's off to the OP for the most original wrapping around a complaint about wingers I've seen in a long time.

The OP might have avoided this charge if s/he had discussed the far more common result of people migrating, that of settling into their new life and enjoying the bonus of having both their new culture/environment and their original culture/environment as rich sources of life experience to draw upon.

Unfortunately, this is the nature of but a few....

[chops]

I've never complained about my new home here. It is in fact 10x better than life in my former country(USA). The food is fantastic, the women feminine(the way they should be), the cost of living low and I'm not constantly looking over my should due to the oppressing police state.

[gregb]

When discussing this topic, it is also important to keep in mind expectations. Many moved here years or decades ago with the expectation that living in Thailand would be cheap compared to the West. Much of the rest is tolerable if that basic condition is met. Unfortunately, in the last few years this is no longer the case. It is not surprising given this changing dynamic that people start to bemoan more of what they gave up when they migrated. They expected the world to remain the same, but it has shifted, and now they feel slighted.

And, yes, I know that it is still possible for some people to live cheaply here. But I recently had a stay with my mother who was over here from the states for 4 weeks. If you are like me and are raising children, have zero interest in Thai women or night life, need a 4 bedroom house with a yard for the children to play near Bangkok, which is the only practical center of commerce, with 2 cars and a dog but lacking the money for servants, you will find that the cost of living in Thailand is very much the same as if not more than the cost of living in a smaller metropolitan area in the states. The expectation with which many of us moved here that Thailand would be good value for money no longer holds.

But with so much tying us to the country, it is very, very difficult to uproot and move somewhere else. So a type of despondence over circumstances is to be expected, and the reaction of many on this site of "if you don't like it, leave" is neither particularly constructive nor desirable. That doesn't mean that incessant moaning is the solution, but one would hope that everyone would at least understand where some of the discontent is coming from.

People migrate for a variety of reasons, but the unifying factor is that they always believe that life will be better where they are headed. When things change and that is no longer the case, the requirement that they throw away their entire investment in the new location and try again is disheartening to say the least. Whether you love it here or are miserable, keeping a proper perspective on how the recent shifts in the global economy are affecting people has the ability to make threads here much more pleasant. I would prefer to see more constructive comments, rather than the trollish statements which seem to get bandied about every time this subject comes up.

[Ricardo]

One reason why people migrate, apart from the obvious economic reason, is simply because they can, I suspect ?

In the old days, as a normal (well ... relatively) person I would probably have had to join the Army or been Transported (to the USA or later-on the Land of Oz) or been enslaved, in order to reach a far region of the world, and settle there.

But now we have, for a while at least, these 500-seat planes full of cheap-seats, linking us together, so it has become blessedly-easier to discover far-places & people, come to like them individually or collectively, and eventually move to live there.

Something similar happened in the UK, when the bicycle was invented & mass-produced at a relatively-affordable price. The range within which one might 'go a-courting' expanded geometrically, from the distance one might walk-and-return in an evening or a rare day-off, to the distance which a 'penny-farthing' might carry you ! This was the beginning of the end for the limited gene-pool of the village.

Now we have the global-village, with a couple of billion people flying every year, expanding their horizons. Jolly Good Thing IMHO !

[ravip]

I offer my sincere appreciation to all who took the time to post their personal views for this question. 2 weeks after posting, all replies (some serious and others not so serious), sure enlightens one to think about this subject in many different angles.

Thank you

[folium]

I offer my sincere appreciation to all who took the time to post their personal views for this question. 2 weeks after posting, all replies (some serious and others not so serious), sure enlightens one to think about this subject in many different angles.

Thank you

The causes of migration are similar to the glass half full, half empty scenario.

If someone emigrates from a country with the push factors (ie reasons why they want to leave a particular place) being the prime motivation, that feeling of disgruntlement, unhappiness etc can often be transferred on to their reaction to the destination where they become an immigrant. (Funny how few people on TV ever class themselves as an immigrant. Being an expat is so much better and still allows folk to slag off the "immigrants" ruining their home country). To be somewhat harsh if you are an unhappy misfit in one place, moving just transfers those issues to a different location.

If the pull factors (positive reasons that attract someone to a different place) are the main reason for migrating it is likely that that person will be more content unless they had ludicrously optimistic/naive expectations in the first place. Streets paved with gold, grass always green.

With some 200 million immigrants around the world today, there is almost an equal number of motivating factors behind individual decisions. Every person has a slightly different cocktail of reasons behind that decision to up sticks and move.

[F1fanatic]

I offer my sincere appreciation to all who took the time to post their personal views for this question. 2 weeks after posting, all replies (some serious and others not so serious), sure enlightens one to think about this subject in many different angles.

Thank you

The causes of migration are similar to the glass half full, half empty scenario.

If someone emigrates from a country with the push factors (ie reasons why they want to leave a particular place) being the prime motivation, that feeling of disgruntlement, unhappiness etc can often be transferred on to their reaction to the destination where they become an immigrant. (Funny how few people on TV ever class themselves as an immigrant. Being an expat is so much better and still allows folk to slag off the "immigrants" ruining their home country). To be somewhat harsh if you are an unhappy misfit in one place, moving just transfers those issues to a different location.

If the pull factors (positive reasons that attract someone to a different place) are the main reason for migrating it is likely that that person will be more content unless they had ludicrously optimistic/naive expectations in the first place. Streets paved with gold, grass always green.

With some 200 million immigrants around the world today, there is almost an equal number of motivating factors behind individual decisions. Every person has a slightly different cocktail of reasons behind that decision to up sticks and move.

Perhaps few of us think of ourselves as "immigrant" because our visas tell us we are "non-immigrant"?

We are merely permitted to stay for 12 months, and then able to re-apply for another visa.