This High Season, Better, Or Worse Than Last Year

[KarenBravo]

I've been away working for December and January, so, I've missed the main bit of high season, which from my own point of view is a good thing.

Just wondering how the regular Phuket forum posters with businesses see this high season.

Is it busier than last year? Has the demographic of the people coming here changed?

Any observations on differences this year from last year?

[stevenl]

Many more Russians, the Chinese are not yet out in force.

In general: about the same as last year,

[Jimi007]

I don't have a business and I personally don't like high season, can't wait until it's over! I agree with stevenl, too many Russians! The Chinese all seem to stay on tour bus or mini bus tours. I see them, but they keep in their group tours.

[Phuket Stan]

Worst traffic jams I have seen on the island in 15 years....2 hours to Patong from the airport on late Wed afternoon then 30 minutes from gokart track to Patong on late sat afternoon....please come quickly low season

[barka]

from what i have seen...more tourists,definatly, more Rusians and Chinese,less spenders,most local busineses i know say,they are on average 30% down on last year,but that can also be down .to....to many of the same type of business and less spending customers..who really knows..even the liars are tellling the truth.

[stevenl]

from what i have seen...more tourists,definatly, more Rusians and Chinese,less spenders,most local busineses i know say,they are on average 30% down on last year,but that can also be down .to....to many of the same type of business and less spending customers..who really knows..even the liars are tellling the truth.

I think it is down to more package tours, see Russians and Chinese, and less spending on the ground.

It is also about choices of course, I probably could do more if I were to penetrate the Russian market, but I choose not to.

[Ulysses G.]

The floods right before high season hurt tourism this year and the redshirt riots did the same last year. On top of that is the lousy world economy. It is no suprise that a lot of businesses are not doing that well.

[petercallen]

Plenty of Tourists in Patong and on the roads, takes ages to drive anywhere

They may not be spending a lot but blame that on the world economy

[Theo007]

Pattaya has been very crowded and the Russians are everywhere.

[KarenBravo]

Kind of lends the lie to that statement you often read on here:

"If they don't fix (put pet peeve here), then the tourists will stop coming and Phuket will turn into a ghost town".

[steelepulse]

The influx of Russians and others renting cars sure has made traffic horrendous, so if you're in the rental car business you're having a banner year. The rise in the number of samlors selling and offering food on the cheap cheap sure has helped a lot of the local vendors while taking away from traditional restaurants. Convenience stores also are having a great year.

[memkuk]

I wonder why it's called "tourist season" and we cannot shoot them... ;-)

[madmitch]

The Bangkok floods actually helped kickstart the high season here. After the dreadful November December weather last season, I know that many regulars did not come at that time. But, although I expected a downturn after New Year, it seems to be business as usual, however the comments on the Russians are spot on.

Despite the scams, crime, violence, transport issues etc., it would not surprise me if the increase in Russian tourists becomes the major reason for other European tourists staying away from Phuket.

[ad61]

The afflux of Russian really seems to be the major reason which keeps European tourist away from Phuket, as most of my repeated guests (Scandinavians) told me; next season a lot of them will opt to move for Khao Lak (like the German did).

[keestha]

The afflux of Russian really seems to be the major reason which keeps European tourist away from Phuket, as most of my repeated guests (Scandinavians) told me; next season a lot of them will opt to move for Khao Lak (like the German did).

Don't know if it has anything to do with Russians, but Khao Lak is quickly internationalizing. I used to get for over 90% German speakers, but now I am getting more and more English speakers, French and Italians. I also get Russians frequently, individually travelling people who are invariably pleasant and well behaved.

[starkey_rich]

The afflux of Russian really seems to be the major reason which keeps European tourist away from Phuket, as most of my repeated guests (Scandinavians) told me; next season a lot of them will opt to move for Khao Lak (like the German did).

I can quite belive this .I go to Nai Harn everyday and they have taken over the beach.

Just wondering if there are any words in the Russian language that mean Please,Thank You,Excuse Me and Sorry I have just barged into you because you are in my way..

One of the rudest race's I have ever encountered.

Or is it that I am just old school and was bought up with manners

[Jimi007]

The afflux of Russian really seems to be the major reason which keeps European tourist away from Phuket, as most of my repeated guests (Scandinavians) told me; next season a lot of them will opt to move for Khao Lak (like the German did).

I can quite belive this .I go to Nai Harn everyday and they have taken over the beach.

Just wondering if there are any words in the Russian language that mean Please,Thank You,Excuse Me and Sorry I have just barged into you because you are in my way..

One of the rudest race's I have ever encountered.

Or is it that I am just old school and was bought up with manners

I was at Nai Harn yesterday with my wife. She was trying to do yoga and I was just trying to relax while a Russian father of two kids starts yelling at his oldest, then spanks him and yells some more. Very peaceful and relaxing, not! But with any people, they're not all bad. I've know one guy from Moscow for years. He's alway friendly and polite. Plus he speaks very good English.

[Ping]

Had a look down Kamala on the weekend for the Kamala festival. Never seen the place so busy. The beach was actually packed. It's temporarily lost its status as a ghost town. Patong busy, as always - and plenty of families.

[chuppachops]

Try going to a 711 in the morning its full of rude russians trying to get credit on their phones, barging in front of you in the que. It seems about the same as last year to me, a lot of russians.

[NamKangMan]

Kind of lends the lie to that statement you often read on here:

"If they don't fix (put pet peeve here), then the tourists will stop coming and Phuket will turn into a ghost town".

KB, I'm one of those members that have predicted Phuket, if it keeps going in the same direction, will be another

Costa del Sol, or "ghost town." I will state my reasons for why I make that prediction.

If this high season's tourist numbers were the same, or even up on last season, we have to look at the demographics of those tourist. A lot of Russians, Chinese, Indians and Arabs. Many on packaged holidays at very reduced prices.

In general, these nationalities are not known for consuming a lot of alcohol and "shopping till you drop." Also, you will not see them in nice restaurants.

I strolled, not trolled :) down Bangla Road the other night and, whilst there was a lot of pedestrian traffic, the Soi's beer bars very quiet, with some not even open. I also noted that many have "for sale" signs on them.

Other members have commented on not seeing many Germans or Scandi's here. I agree with that. I have not sat up at a bar and met one for sometime. I can not comment if the reason for this is because there are more Russians here, but I have also noticed less Westerners here.

Construction is STILL going on at a fast pace here. Hotels, guest houses, bars, restaurants and shop houses going up everywhere. In my own opinion, there is, and will continue to be, an over supply, thus driving prices down for accommodation, whilst your Thai landlord still expects high rent per month. This is unsustainable.

Phuket's competition is rising up very fast. I posted a few weeks ago statistics that November 2011 saw a 42% increase in tourism to Vietnam over November 2010. As the Russians, Chinese, Indians and Arabs are coming here, I would say most of the statisitics for Vietnam are Westerners, who do drink alcohol, eat in a variety of restaurants and do a lot of shopping and activities whilst on holidays. Also, many Westerners, Australians in particular, are flocking back to Bali now, which has everything Phuket has, but is a lot cheaper. This is where your high season profits went to.

The OP talks about "businesses being busier than last year." Most posts states it is busy, with people, but no one has mentioned if their business is turning over the same amount of baht as recent years. We all agree that the demographics is changing, and it's for this reason I would say profits are down. This demographic of new tourist here just do not "spend" like Westerners. I have seen many tourist shopping in Big C for food and alcohol. Also, many tourists, mainly Russian, walking along Bangla Road with beer bought from a 7/11 or Family Mart or food bought from a street vendor.

So, the "ghost town" that you refer to I think will come in the form of empty beer bars and boarded up small guest houses and mini hotels. Many farang will walk away at the end of their current lease. I have one friend who can not sell his guest house/bar who will not renew at the end of this year and another friend who can not sell his beer bar who will also walk away when his current lease expires. Both businesses used to do ok.

My friends are not alone, many are trying to sell now. If they can't sell, many will not renew their lease. We only have to look at the bars under the new boxing stadium. Many never sold, and of the ones that did, most have been for sale for a long time now - at the same time, a massive new big Tiger complex with approximately 70 new beer bars has been built on

Bangla Road. Maybe the Thai landlords think the Russians, Chinese, Indians or Arabs wiill buy their beer bars in the same way the Westerners did, but that is not going to happen.

Other forces that all come into play are the weak Euro, British Pound and US dollar, and poor global economic conditions that will continue for some years. Sure, a new plane arrives with another "dreamer" but not as many as we have seen in the past and many of those "dreamers" do not have the cash that others had in the past. This is why we will also see an over supply of condo/houses/apartments on the market. Many of the farang that retired here in the 80's and 90's are aging. Many are passing away. There is not a new generation of retiree coming through, who are cashed up with retirement money, because they took heavy losses during the global financial crisis. Many of these retirees will not, or can not, afford to buy here. A check of some of the online real estate agents reveals hundreds of properties for sale here, many currently vacant. It's possible some have turned away from buying due to the foreign ownership of land issues here, but that's for another thread.

For me, I have briefly described the broad picture. The smaller, but also important picture, are your issues like lack of transport (tuk tuks) sports activity safety, motor vehicle accidents, theft, assaults, scams, rip offs and extortions. Many tourist are paying more in tuk tuks per day than they are for their hotel room per night. This is an expense they would never have considered when booking their holiday here. All of these have been greatly debated in past threads but it must have an impact on repeat tourism to some degree.

So, summing up, for me, whilst there may be the same, or even more tourist here this high season, and I am suspicious of TAT's statistics as well as many are now using Phuket Airport as a stop over, many businesses are not making money and will eventually close. I think they will stay closed for an extended period of time because there is no pressure on the Thai landlord to lower key money and rent because his family has many other properties. So, it gathers dust, looks unsightly and creates the appearance of Phuket becoming a "ghost town."

You mentioned "fixes" for Phuket. The only way I can see Phuket having a high occupancy rate for most of its accommodation, bars and restaurants is for the Thai landlords to work on the "less profit per item but selling a higher amount of items" business model. In other words, in the future, better to have all their properties rented out, for cheaper, then only a few properties, for dearer. This would encourage your "dreamer" to have a go at business here, or your retired farang to have a bar, more as a hobby, than out of need. If it breaks even or they make some "beer money" from it, they are happy, because they are living off their money from back home. The Thai landlord gets some income, rather than the premises sitting there vacant and not being maintained, police get their tea money, the establishment employs Thai's staff (legitimate or otherwise) and employment to beer/food suppliers etc. The BIG problem is, telling Thai's that the lease on their property is worth less money due to all the reasons above. They just do not understand concepts of supply, demand and competition. They would rather their premises empty, for months, even years, than rent it out at a lower price. So, it will never happen.

This is the only way I can see Phuket filling it's buildings, regaining that vibrant feel again and attracting back lost tourism. Sadly, I can't see it happening.

So, KB, it's not a "doomsday" post. It will not happen tomorrow, or next week, but it's slowly happening now and, in the future, I see a a massive amount of vacant premises here, thus creating an unsightly "ghost town" appearance and a "quieter" feel for first time tourist here and a general lack of atmosphere.

As mentioned in a previous post, to the expat living here who doesn't care about tourism, remember the Thai business model "profit down so put price up." Expats will be paying more, not to mention living in a place that is only a shadow of it's former self, with every second premises vacant, boarded up and deteriorating.

I would like to add that if anyone thinks my post is "sour grapes" - I have never owned a business here, I have never bought property here and I have never sent money to issan for a sick buffalo that doesn't exist. :) These are just my opinions, views and observations.

I welcome your critisism and abuse. :) :)

[pagallim]

Whilst not having an immediate impact, the thawing of Western relations with Myanmar will undoubtably lead to an expansion of their economy, not least in the areas of tourism. Probably take 5 to 10 years and longer to become established, but the initial impact will be the shortage of construction workers in Phuket, followed by catering and leisure workers. Why do they need to travel to another country to be used and abused, when they can stay at home for it .

[Peterocket]

I feel that November and December showed a very slow start to the high season which was closely linked to the flooding in Bangkok. In 6 Years Thailand has overcome a huge number of challenges and still managed to survive as a top tourist destination. Red Shirts/Yellow Shirts twice, Terrorists in the south (and now north), Tsunamis, Volcanoes in Europe effecting flights etc etc. I feel that Thailand will continue in the future to be a top destination even if the demographics change. Phuket will hopefully see the introduction of some sort of rail system in the next 5-10 years, the international convention center, new quality shows like Siam Paragaon (or whatever its called) a new super yacht marina as well as large investment in the infrastructure. I know local places that have seen record figures for this January and end of December so it looks positive for those businesess for the next few months and probably also years.

In my opinion if businesses cant survive with the current number of tourists in Phuket then they are doing something wrong. It is simply not enough to just open a bar, employ 4 hookers and expect to make a living. Businesses now that think outside the box by providing quality service, quality products, good location and good prices because if they don't someone else will. This is a good thing for Phuket, competition raises the bar. Maybe Namkang mans friends with their failing bars should think about their business model and see if they can turn things around.

[KarenBravo]

I do agree with some of NKM's observations.

Demand has always lagged supply when it comes to business premises.

The shop-house estate opposite Patong Hospital was empty for years and years and did look like a ghost town. Now, nearly every shop-house is rented.

In the 1990's, the two Sois near to Karon circle, the one with Karon Cafe in it. Most of those shop-houses were empty and crumbling. Now the placed is completely full and is the epi-centre of tourist activity in Karon. There are many more examples of this I could mention in Kata, Chalong and Rawai.

One of the reasons I've never been tempted into business in Phuket is that unless you own the property you do business from, all your profits go to the greedy land-lord. There are some good land-lords, but, not many.

The marine business is booming and will continue for the forseeable future. I know a marine engineering company that has been turning down work for at least a couple of years as they are just too busy.

Yes, the demographic of the typical tourist has changed. That is just the natural progression in a tourist destination. Because of this, some businesses lose out, such as bars and many gain, hotels, convenience stores and tour groups.

Businesses will have to adapt, or, die just as Peterocket has stated.

[NamKangMan]

I feel that November and December showed a very slow start to the high season which was closely linked to the flooding in Bangkok. In 6 Years Thailand has overcome a huge number of challenges and still managed to survive as a top tourist destination. Red Shirts/Yellow Shirts twice, Terrorists in the south (and now north), Tsunamis, Volcanoes in Europe effecting flights etc etc. I feel that Thailand will continue in the future to be a top destination even if the demographics change. Phuket will hopefully see the introduction of some sort of rail system in the next 5-10 years, the international convention center, new quality shows like Siam Paragaon (or whatever its called) a new super yacht marina as well as large investment in the infrastructure. I know local places that have seen record figures for this January and end of December so it looks positive for those businesess for the next few months and probably also years.

In my opinion if businesses cant survive with the current number of tourists in Phuket then they are doing something wrong. It is simply not enough to just open a bar, employ 4 hookers and expect to make a living. Businesses now that think outside the box by providing quality service, quality products, good location and good prices because if they don't someone else will. This is a good thing for Phuket, competition raises the bar. Maybe Namkang mans friends with their failing bars should think about their business model and see if they can turn things around.

The problem is Pete, the accommodation, alcohol and food prices are governed, largely, by the high rents determined by the Thai landlords here and that is making the place uncompetetive with its neighbours. So, "good prices" will become harder to find for tourists.

Location is governed by the lack of transport to get there. Eg. a nice bar with a view 2kms away is 200 baht to get there and, if returning at night, 400 baht to get back, 600 baht if it's raining. So, your few beers on sunset have now become quite expensive. The tuk tuk problem can detract from an establishment's good location.

I agree that buying a bar and employing 4 hookers isn't "cutting it" anymore. That's why the Soi's were very quiet, some not open at all and a lot of them for sale. I'm not quite sure what better services or products you could offer from such small establishments. It would be hard to implement any new novel ideas. A face lift or renervation isn't much good. Look at the new Soi Seadragon, it's dead, and it's brand new, nice and shinny etc etc.

Due to the way things are on Phuket, certain businesses have boomed. Motorbike and car rental are huge now. That's due to the tuk tuk problem here but the the extra traffic and drink driving/riding causes other problems, mainly parking, accidents, death and injury. Street food has also boomed. The Baanzan BBQ market at sunset is now full of expats and tourist when it only ever had locals before. The same with kebab stands. Look how many there are now, and there is always very little meat left on the skewer later in the evening.

It's possible Bangla Road may just become one big street party everynight with people standing around eating street food, drinking out of 7/11's and talking to freelance hookers. Who knows?

The beer bars seem to be becoming vacant, one by one, with no new owners stepping in. Of course, Phuket does not revolve around Bangla Road, but, in a recent PG poll, from memory, it was voted the number one tourist attraction on the island, so, why are bars closing down if just about every tourist who comes here visits Bangla Road???? Is it the demographics of the tourists? Is it the high rents which sets the price of the alcohol.

Of course, large establishements like the big Australian theme bar on Bangla Road will remain, but they have even been quiet of late. Although, it will not be quiet today, being Australia Day.

[Peterocket]

I feel that November and December showed a very slow start to the high season which was closely linked to the flooding in Bangkok. In 6 Years Thailand has overcome a huge number of challenges and still managed to survive as a top tourist destination. Red Shirts/Yellow Shirts twice, Terrorists in the south (and now north), Tsunamis, Volcanoes in Europe effecting flights etc etc. I feel that Thailand will continue in the future to be a top destination even if the demographics change. Phuket will hopefully see the introduction of some sort of rail system in the next 5-10 years, the international convention center, new quality shows like Siam Paragaon (or whatever its called) a new super yacht marina as well as large investment in the infrastructure. I know local places that have seen record figures for this January and end of December so it looks positive for those businesess for the next few months and probably also years.

In my opinion if businesses cant survive with the current number of tourists in Phuket then they are doing something wrong. It is simply not enough to just open a bar, employ 4 hookers and expect to make a living. Businesses now that think outside the box by providing quality service, quality products, good location and good prices because if they don't someone else will. This is a good thing for Phuket, competition raises the bar. Maybe Namkang mans friends with their failing bars should think about their business model and see if they can turn things around.

Location is governed by the lack of transport to get there. Eg. a nice bar with a view 2kms away is 200 baht to get there and, if returning at night, 400 baht to get back, 600 baht if it's raining. So, your few beers on sunset have now become quite expensive. The tuk tuk problem can detract from an establishment's good location.

Most people when they are holiday don't mind paying 200 baht to travel 2 kms. Especially a family of 4 or a group of 6 lads. The effect you think the taxi "problem" has on Phuket isn't actually as bad as you think in my opinion.

They people I spoke with even enjoyed going on the 20 baht bus to Phuket town from Kamala because they got to see a bit of Thai life. Although they had to pay a massive 500 baht to travel the 25km's home.

Tourism will continue to boom in Phuket, Russians, Arabs, Chinese..whatever...they will keep coming. I don't even understand why people say the Russians don't drink or spend money. I watched 10 Russians in a bar the other day pretty much drink the place dry.

[steelepulse]

Most people when they are holiday don't mind paying 200 baht to travel 2 kms. Especially a family of 4 or a group of 6 lads. The effect you think the taxi "problem" has on Phuket isn't actually as bad as you think in my opinion.

They people I spoke with even enjoyed going on the 20 baht bus to Phuket town from Kamala because they got to see a bit of Thai life. Although they had to pay a massive 500 baht to travel the 25km's home.

Tourism will continue to boom in Phuket, Russians, Arabs, Chinese..whatever...they will keep coming. I don't even understand why people say the Russians don't drink or spend money. I watched 10 Russians in a bar the other day pretty much drink the place dry.

I must say I've never seen so many people walking in years past. It took almost 20 minutes to go from the Hilton to Kata Noi a couple of nights ago due to so many pedestrians walking in the street making traffic come to a crawl.

[geriatrickid]

Christmas/New Years was definitely busier than last year in my part of beautiful bustling Patong. (barf). Haven't seen that much traffic in years. Yes, lots of Russians now, but they are the only ones that I see with bags from Jungceylon stores. Patong beach was at 95% capacity during peak period. The only reason It's those Russians that are keeping Phuket's tourist trade profitable as they are the ones paying the premium lodging prices. The only other nationalities that do that are the Japanese and Americans. On my flights to and from Hong Kong I have noticed some very wealthy Hong Kong Chinese. I have no idea where they go in Phuket as they melt away as soon as they arrive, most likely staying in and around the resorts.

I don't know how anyone can call the Russians as a group cheap. Have you ever seen them when they go to a bar or a restaurant? Money is not an issue.