Former Pilot Calls For Probe Into Possible Violations Of Aviation Code By Thai Airways

[webfact]

Former Pilot Calls for Probe into Possible Violations of Aviation Code by Thai Airways

BANGKOK: -- A former Thai Airways pilot and a governance group submitted a letter to the transport minister calling for a probe into possible violations of the International Civil Aviation Organization code by the airline after it allegedly cut the number of pilots on two flight routes.

Squadron Leader Thanit Phromsathit, the coordinator of Thai Airways shareholders and a former pilot, along with the head of the governance group, Nakboon Akkabutr, submitted a letter to Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan calling for an inquiry into possible violations of the International Civil Aviation Organization code by the airline.

Thanit said he received a number of claims in August last year alleging that Thai Airways cut the number of pilots from three to two on Thailand-Japan and Thailand-Korea flights between midnight and 5 A.M., in order to save costs.

He noted that the move could result in inestimable damage to confidence in the airline's safety and to Thailand's reputation, since Thai Airways is its only national carrier.

The group demanded that an investigation be launched to examine whether the cut was legitimate and whether it is safe to have just two pilots on these routes.

Thani also disagreed with the government's plan to sell its stakes in the company to the Vayuphak Fund, saying the sale could be an attempt to hide irregularities and avoid inspection by the authorities.

He said he will prepare more evidence and file another complaint with the Transport Minister by next week.

-- Tan Network 2012-01-26

[SomTumTiger]

Squadron Leader Thanit - keep up the good work!!!

[ginjag]

Squadron Leader Thanit - keep up the good work!!!

brilliant stuff, this is what is missing in this country-mega probes into situ's like this. It's monopoly-and very badly managed-aged fleet-and voted among the worlds best--Bulls##it. Dictatorial-airline run for shareholders and hangers on, not a patch on those years gone by when most Brits coming to Thailand used THAI----no more they blew it a long time ago. Crap old planes and the highest ticket prices. Good for you Thanit.

[Rusty2009]

How do they advertise?, "smooth as silk" i will never fly with these cowboys again,

[sparebox2]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

[ginjag]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

ask the international air safety people-google it, safety regulations. like it's compulsory to have more than 1 door to get out.

[ginjag]

3rd pilot is in case the plane breaks up into 3 parts

[mrtoad]

How do they advertise?, "smooth as silk" i will never fly with these cowboys again,

More like "Rough as rats" on the LHR-BKK route. Avoid at all costs.

[Oberkommando]

Thai is fantastic for BKK-MEL and BKK-BNE. Newer planes and good service.

[ginjag]

the Australia routes are nearly the only Int., routes to have NEWER planes, I believe these are 777er and leased from India ??   in the last 2 years if we look at the threads about TG and their buying countless new planes over a few years--can anyone tell me when any were delivered??   and a post came up to say they were billions in losses. then a thread to say they were in the top 5 in the world. they have missed the boat--and as ober has to say the Aussi/far east flights are the only ones that are something like normal.  It's the price though they have killed the customer off, now this pilot cost cutting, having a few more bht for vip free flights.

[GentlemanJim]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

Madness takes its toll please have correct change

[sparebox2]

All modern airline planes have only 2 seats (with controls) for pilots.

Please show me one with 3.

Besides, Thailand-Japan and Thailand-Korea are all under 8 hours.

Edited January 26, 2012 by sparebox2

[rheinwiese]

Under JAA operations, the cut-off duty time, requiring a change from a 2 pilot crew to a 3 or 4 pilot crew, will depend on:

The length of the crew's previous rest

Whether the crew are acclimatized to local time or not

How many sectors the crew plan to operate

What local time of day the crew report time is

Whether bunks, or just seats, are available on board to the crew for inflight rest

Under JAR-OPS, the duty time required to trigger a change from:

2 crew to 3 crew can vary from 9:00 to 10:45

3 crew to 4 crew can vary from 9:45 to 14:00

The 4 crew duty limit is currently 18:00

I suppose the TG flight to Japan and Korea are operated without layover, hence the pilots are facing a duty time of up to 13 hours.

You do the math.

FYI: e.g. Cathay Pacific operates its flights from the UK, GER, Fr etc with a 4-pilot cockpit

[abcz9]

i wouldt fly thai air if the ticket was free.

[Payboy]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

It takes more than 2 to satisfy those old hags serving in first and business.

[transam]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

Don't you worry, keep watching your porno vids and using your mobile in flight eh

[Phatcharanan]

All modern airline planes have only 2 seats (with controls) for pilots.

Please show me one with 3.

Besides, Thailand-Japan and Thailand-Korea are all under 8 hours.

Oh.........So Lufthansa does not have a 3 sest set-up on it's new planes huh?

Anyway, under FAA regs. it is mandated to have a relief pilot for any flight over 8 hours duration.

[Skywalker69]

Thai is fantastic for BKK-MEL and BKK-BNE. Newer planes and good service.

100% agreed.

I have flown with Lufthansa Eva Air SAS,

Thai Airways is outstanding in service

and legspace.

On SAS you have to pay for the drinks, the cabin crew not at all service minded.

I will go back to Thai Airways.

[RKASA]

"A former Thai Airways pilot" I guess the active ones didn't want to get ear slapped. Let Thanit do the complaining they can't fire him.

[Trembly]

It only take 1 to fly. The second is spare. Why need a third?

You sound like you know what you're talking about. Can you tell me why they call the second one the "co-pilot" please? I've always wondered why they don't just call him the "spare pilot".

Edited January 26, 2012 by Trembly

[Ricardo]

IME in European operations, the captain would fly the outwards leg, while the co-pilot works the radio & does announcements etc. Then they reverse roles for the flight home again. Thus the (often young) co-pilot gains experience as Pilot-In-Charge, whilst having an experienced colleague next to them in the cockpit.

Rheinwiese's explanation shows why, rather than changing flight-crew in Japan or Korea, TG might carrying a third-pilot. This is presumably a decision based partly on commercial-grounds, wanting to save overnight-costs, and perhaps for ease of rostering ? No problem, so long as safety is not being compromised.

[marquess]

Thai is fantastic for BKK-MEL and BKK-BNE. Newer planes and good service.

Not so, I have just come back from the BKK-MEL route, on the way out we had a new plane with the screens in the seats, but with less leg room and harder seats, very uncomfortable, felt like being in village stocks. Then on the way back we had the older plane with no screens and more leg room. Thankfully the flight was only 40% full so I was able to stretch out, had that not been so it would have been a miserable trip. I only got back last night so that is a recent as it gets!

[TomTao]

All modern airline planes have only 2 seats (with controls) for pilots.

Please show me one with 3.

Besides, Thailand-Japan and Thailand-Korea are all under 8 hours.

I would suggest that the reason for the third pilot is to allow down time for one pilot to rest while still having two pilots at the controls so that pilot fatigue would not become an issue.

[anterian]

I envy people who can sleep on planes, it's not fear, just the sheer proximity of many others, but then I don't understand how poor Thais (amongst others) can sleep ten to a room.

[swerver]

Additional Pilot

In my days of flying – I do not keep up with the Regulations / NOTAMS anymore because I’m retired and in this capitalist environment of today everything changes and not for the better – the FAA rule on international flights in my days was; if the flight duration without a stop exceeded 8-hours then an additional pilot was required. But total flight duration could not exceed 12-hours which later were increased to 14-hours.

Okay, so on a flight Thailand/ Korea or Thailand/Japan which does not exceed 8-hour an additional pilot was not required.

In actuality, Thai Airways being a side arm of the RTAF has pilots up the jangjang so to give them something to do, instead of bothering their wives, they just put them in the Jump seat on the flight deck.

So it looks like this RTAF/Thai Airways ex-pilot likes to make a name for him self by using a procedure he had become accustomed to but really does not fully understand the finer details.

By pulling this not required pilot Thai Airways saves money because it has not to pay flight hours to this not required pilot. Remember flight crews – flight deck and cabin - have a monthly salary and in addition they are paid for every flight hour which calculated: wheels leaving runway to wheels touching down on runway at next stop.

Salary with Airlines is a bucket of worms of never ending grumbling I don’t even want to try to detail it all, so much so that I never wanted to work for an airline to fly a “milk route”. To me it was much more convenient to fly cargo charter (here today there tomorrow). You had your salary plus flight hours plus layover reimbursement (transportation/accommodation/meals).

In case this ex-pilot is shooting for some executive position in Thai Airways by making a name for himself, best of luck to him.