Russians Trapped In Pattaya Following Collapse Of Tour Company

[ozzieman05]

Once the tour company has announced bankruptcy, the contract is void, and the hotel is under no further obligation to provide any service without an arrangement for payment being agreed. Any payments made over and above that paid to the tour company would be claimable on travel insurance, and if you decide to carry that risk yourself, dont whine. Until some arrangement to pay ALL of the a/c, I would be allowing nothing - including access to the room or safe-box.

So you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money

My money is in my deposit box

you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money

My money is in my deposit box

you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money

My money is in my deposit box

you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money

The owner of the hotel has great business sense

customer - the money/credit card/TCs are in my safe deposit. Give me access and I will pay my a/c.

hotel staff - certainly sir.

This is called an arrangement to settle your a/c as posted. So what was the repetitive idiocy about?

No 1 ) This did not happen

No.2 ) Is an example of how many times my Thai wife will tell some one who is meant to be giving us service, before they listen to her

[Credo]

I've been caught 'short' on a couple of occasions. Never for a hotel bill, but for an evening out. On both occasions, someone from the staff came with me, once to the ATM, and once in a taxi to my apartment, where I had cash (of course, I had to pay the cab for to and from).

If any of the occupants was willing and able to pay, I am sure the hotel staff would accompany them to get the money. If anybody has a credit card locked in the safety deposit box, I am sure the hotel will give them access to pay. The hotel doesn't wish to have a problem. It only wishes to be paid.

My guess is that some of these folks simply do not want to get stiffed twice. Then there is the obvious problem of paying for air-fare back to Russia.

[harryfrompattaya]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

Yes we rich expats on Thai Visa should chip in and give them money to solve their problems. We all talk how rich we are let us do something wonderful. Put me down for 1

thousand.

Edited February 1, 2012 by harryfrompattaya

[harryfrompattaya]

Where is the Russian mafia when you need them?

I was thinking the same, maybe their in no Russian mafia.

[samsiam]

I gather they did not have travel insurance ??

The hotel takes the pre booking with all risks associated.....they reaped the benefit for years....now one time it turns to shit...the hotel and airline need to pony up to their responsibilities in their part of the agreement regardless as the contract is with hotel and agency....not hotel and traveler.

[z12]

Interestingly there does not seem to be any Russians on thaivisa.

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[balo]

[jshorts]

The contract is with the tour company. If they don't pay up, as part of their contract, they can only take their complaint to the company (or the bankruptcy lawyer for them). They cannot choose to randomly start assigning blame and cost on others. They have no support for this.

I don't understand what you mean by "support." This is Thailand and as you can see, the Thais do things differently than westerners.

[z12]

Do the hotels also do the 'jet ski scam' on your hotel room, claiming bs damage that was there before?

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[Jim walker]

I would have presumed customers must have paid for their holiday in full or the tour operators would not have let them on the plane…If it was such a large tour company in Russia I presume they would be registered with some sort of travel association with a bond that would cover customers for just such a incident.

[osiboy]

Does this mean less "Russian" "Ladies" in Walking Street?

NO,...It means more as they cant go home !

[osiboy]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

Yes we rich expats on Thai Visa should chip in and give them money to solve their problems. We all talk how rich we are let us do something wonderful. Put me down for 1

thousand.

pounds ??

[TAWP]

Does this mean less "Russian" "Ladies" in Walking Street?

NO,...It means more as they cant go home !

Just what we want, 40-50 year old Russian housewives working off their debts...

Edited February 1, 2012 by TAWP

[tvgrus]

Interestingly there does not seem to be any Russians on thaivisa.

Most Russians have no idea what to do with eng language Thai Visa forums. So they searching rumours about Thailand on Russian sites. Getting there "correct and approved" outdated second hand info

[OzMick]

Once the tour company has announced bankruptcy, the contract is void, and the hotel is under no further obligation to provide any service without an arrangement for payment being agreed. Any payments made over and above that paid to the tour company would be claimable on travel insurance, and if you decide to carry that risk yourself, dont whine. Until some arrangement to pay ALL of the a/c, I would be allowing nothing - including access to the room or safe-box.

So you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money My money is in my deposit box you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money My money is in my deposit box you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money My money is in my deposit box you can not get into your safe deposit box till you pay your money The owner of the hotel has great business sense

customer - the money/credit card/TCs are in my safe deposit. Give me access and I will pay my a/c. hotel staff - certainly sir. This is called an arrangement to settle your a/c as posted. So what was the repetitive idiocy about?

No 1 ) This did not happen No.2 ) Is an example of how many times my Thai wife will tell some one who is meant to be giving us service, before they listen to her

1/ I said this is what I would do, not what happened

2/ In your example, neither party is listening

[Nisa]

If you need to get more money wired to you from abroad to settle your bill,

and your passport is locked into the hotel safe until you get more money

to pay the bill you THOUGHT was already paid,

but you need the passport to identify yourself to GET the wire transfer,

then it is Catch-22.

Do you really think these people came here with no money, no ATM card or credit card????? How much do you think the hotel bill was?

I seriously think some of them came unprepared to pay the hotel bill because they had already paid the hotel. Many naive first time package tourists just bring some CASH and that's it. Obviously each individual tourist has a different story and it's impossible to generalize about ALL of them in any way.

No doubt and I am sure some came here with absolutely nothing extra and completely unprepared for even the slightest emergency or problem but I highly doubt the majority came here with no money to spend on drinking, shopping, eating out, transportation....

But if they did come with empty pockets then they not only need to look to the tour agent to blame but in the mirror.

[Nisa]

Do you really think these people came here with no money, no ATM card or credit card????? How much do you think the hotel bill was?

In Russia 95% of Visa/Master cards are debit only.

As I see in local news those tourists, who speak with a journalists at Moscow, have a $ 800 - 1500 bill for "from reception hotel + plane" spendings / per person.

ATM card is access to money.

I can't understand why these tourists (who appear to have made it back to Moscow) would be talking in dollars and not Baht or Rubles. I am not sure if you are saying the amount in dollars is for the hotel + plane or just the hotel but if just the hotel $1500 is about 45,000 baht and when a hotel like Town-in-Town in Pattaya charges 700 to 1000 baht a night (http://www.hotels2thailand.com/pattaya-hotels/town-in-town-hotel-pattaya.asp). I guess they must have stayed there for 45-days or more before the hotel realized they got burned.

If it is hotel and airfare, it still seems a lot as you can buy a 1-way non-stop last minute ticket to Moscow for $500 (15,000 baht) which would still leave a 30-day hotel bill.

[harrry]

I presume the hotel is trying to extort onlt the rate it would have received from the tour company and not the rack rate.....but that wouldn't be fair extortion would it.

[ozzieman05]

1/ I said this is what I would do, not what happened

2/ In your example, neither party is listening

...............................................................................................

If I miss took your meaning, I apologise

when it comes to money my thai wife is always listening, it when I say something to her, she does not

I call it Thai selective Hearing

[kujirasan]

Russian rudeness in legendary and exemplary, and that perception has enormous effect on people dealing with Russians, in 1941, French Prisoner of War in Poland rioted and large number were shot by German guards, they refused to eat on the same table with Russians, which were mainly high ranking officers, the French complained that is like eating with pigs, the destruction of upper classes during revolution left the country with only peasants, the etiquette and conventional code of conducts, table manners etc went extinct, if any one has had a chance coming across Russian communities that had left Russian during Revolution, in Canada , France etc will find the difference, recently the Russian ministry of education has decided to teach etiquette in schools, as well in Russian itself the Government is referred to as KLEPTOCRACY , collapses of this sort are common occurrence. Peter the Great, was well know for stealing anything that wasn’t bolted to the floor while staying in Europe (Holland) , On the other side Thai hoteliers are not know for generosity, or charity, once they have lousy customer like Russians, this type of reaction is not unusual. Unless the Thai tourist authority and police implement same policy as for Angolans, and designate specific hotels and condition for them, this type of disaster will occur incessantly.

[tvgrus]

Russian rudeness in legendary and exemplary, and that perception has enormous effect on people dealing with Russians, in 1941, French Prisoner of War in Poland rioted and large number were shot by German guards, they refused to eat on the same table with Russians, which were mainly high ranking officers, the French complained that is like eating with pigs, the destruction of upper classes during revolution left the country with only peasants, the etiquette and conventional code of conducts, table manners etc went extinct, if any one has had a chance coming across Russian communities that had left Russian during Revolution, in Canada , France etc will find the difference, recently the Russian ministry of education has decided to teach etiquette in schools, as well in Russian itself the Government is referred to as KLEPTOCRACY , collapses of this sort are common occurrence. Peter the Great, was well know for stealing anything that wasn’t bolted to the floor while staying in Europe (Holland) , On the other side Thai hoteliers are not know for generosity, or charity, once they have lousy customer like Russians, this type of reaction is not unusual. Unless the Thai tourist authority and police implement same policy as for Angolans, and designate specific hotels and condition for them, this type of disaster will occur incessantly.

Wow! All the ridiculous clichés about Russian's in one message.

[petermik]

I would have presumed customers must have paid for their holiday in full or the tour operators would not have let them on the plane…If it was such a large tour company in Russia I presume they would be registered with some sort of travel association with a bond that would cover customers for just such a incident.

You presume too much

[tvgrus]

I can't understand why these tourists (who appear to have made it back to Moscow) would be talking in dollars and not Baht or Rubles. I am not sure if you are saying the amount in dollars is for the hotel + plane or just the hotel but if just the hotel $1500 is about 45,000 baht and when a hotel like Town-in-Town in Pattaya charges 700 to 1000 baht a night (http://www.hotels2th...tel-pattaya.asp). I guess they must have stayed there for 45-days or more before the hotel realized they got burned.

If it is hotel and airfare, it still seems a lot as you can buy a 1-way non-stop last minute ticket to Moscow for $500 (15,000 baht) which would still leave a 30-day hotel bill.

Let's understand this -- 90% of this "LOST Russians" is a "pack tourists" who have only "Egypt&Turkey packed by agency" experience. On that route you don't need to know a one single word on english, mostly all served in russian. Package includes all except souvenirs. Flight+hotel+food+drinks are in tour price. So, people don't need alot of money. 200-300 USD / per person pocket is more then enough. One way ticket for plane was 250-300 USD max. // They was switched on Thailand for this year For First Time. And this "vacation tour" already cost them more then previous, because of longer flight and big difference in tourist infrastructure.

[tvgrus]

I would have presumed customers must have paid for their holiday in full or the tour operators would not have let them on the plane…If it was such a large tour company in Russia I presume they would be registered with some sort of travel association with a bond that would cover customers for just such a incident.

You presume too much

"Lanta Tour", as i wrote before, have 3.000.000 USD insurance. But to get a part of this money you must start "in Russia court case" against Lanta. Now Russian Gov's with a Putin ahead, who have an re-election within a month, trying to rise "Lanta" from the dead with, as always, roofless injections of money .

Edited February 2, 2012 by TVGuide

[elektrified]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

+1

[ozzieman05]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

+1

But they did pay their bills, to the hotel official appointed agent

[samsiam]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

+1

But they did pay their bills, to the hotel official appointed agent

Some people are a tad thick to understand this.

[Orac]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

+1

But they did pay their bills, to the hotel official appointed agent

Without seeing the wording of the contracts both between the hotel and the tour operator AND the holiday makers and tour company you are guessing. SInce most of these contracts/agreements are written to protect the businesses coupled with the assumption that most individuals don't bother to read the small print they could well not be protected and it could turn out that instead of the agent being officially appointed by the hotel it is worded that Lanta are acting as agents for the tourists.

[Nisa]

I can't understand why these tourists (who appear to have made it back to Moscow) would be talking in dollars and not Baht or Rubles. I am not sure if you are saying the amount in dollars is for the hotel + plane or just the hotel but if just the hotel $1500 is about 45,000 baht and when a hotel like Town-in-Town in Pattaya charges 700 to 1000 baht a night (http://www.hotels2th...tel-pattaya.asp). I guess they must have stayed there for 45-days or more before the hotel realized they got burned.

If it is hotel and airfare, it still seems a lot as you can buy a 1-way non-stop last minute ticket to Moscow for $500 (15,000 baht) which would still leave a 30-day hotel bill.

Let's understand this -- 90% of this "LOST Russians" is a "pack tourists" who have only "Egypt&Turkey packed by agency" experience. On that route you don't need to know a one single word on english, mostly all served in russian. Package includes all except souvenirs. Flight+hotel+food+drinks are in tour price. So, people don't need alot of money. 200-300 USD / per person pocket is more then enough. One way ticket for plane was 250-300 USD max. // They was switched on Thailand for this year For First Time. And this "vacation tour" already cost them more then previous, because of longer flight and big difference in tourist infrastructure.

Bottom line is it is NOT uncommon for tour companies to go under and this is NOT the first BIG tour agency to go under in Russia leaving people stranded. People need to do some basic homework before buying anything. But the real bottom line is I doubt any of these people didn't have money to pay for the hotel. Yes, THEY got ripped off (for lack of a better term) BY THE TRAVEL AGENCY but to think the hotel should foot the bill is not being realistic.

If somebody travels overseas and doesn't even bring enough money or have access to money in case they run into problems then they have no business traveling overseas until they have saved enough. It is sad what happened to these people but people need to be prepared to able to take care of themselves .... especially when traveling overseas in a country they are unfamiliar. Clearly somebody is very irresponsible (minus extreme circumstances such as a dying person's last wish) if the only money they have left in the world is used to travel to Pattaya, Thailand.

I feel sorry for these people but I don't see, from the story, where the hotel went wrong. It is common is Asia to hold a passport at the front desk until payment is made. If you don't like it then don't give the passport to begin with and instead give a deposit. I also can understand the hotel "threatening" to not provide access to the hotel safe until paid. This should not be an issue unless the guest had no intention of paying ... also, how many people check stuff into the hotel safe now a days with a safe in the room? Lets not forget these are supposedly poor people who can't afford to pay their hotel bill but somehow have such high valuables they need to use the hotel safe.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I don't know what the law is in Thailand, but in many countries if you do not pay your rent, for example, the owner can hold your property until the bill is settled.

Good point. There has been cases of actors in the US who have stayed long term at hotels and not paid their bills only to be locked out of the room without access to their belongings.

It sucks what happened but just because the hotel is a business, people shouldn't think they are the bad guy because they wanted to get paid by the numerous dozens (or hundreds) of people stayed free at their hotel for numerous days. I can only imagine what people's view would be if they owned the hotel.