Charity Debate.

[chang35baht]

For a few years now we have been collecting the ringpulls from our beer cans and giving them to a friend of ours. He gives them to a particiular charity and they in turn use them to make wheelchairs. A worthy cause indeed.

But the thing is, in discussion yesterday, some say the ringpulls are made from stainless steel, while others say they are made from pure aluminium. Which is it?

Also, why don,t they collect the whole can as it says on the cans "all aluminium can"? Is it because of the colouring/paintwork on the cans surface that makes it harder to process/remove impurities etc?

My money`s on the ringpull being aluminium.

P.S. there` a couple of beers on this one if I`m right.

Cheers .

[chownah]

I think that the ring pulls are made into decorative chains.

[lopburi3]

Urban Legend and not true.

See this web page for a good rundown of this old tale:

http://www.snopes.com/business/redeem/pulltabs.asp

[buadhai]

The Klang Plaza Department Store here in Korat collects pull tabs in a big bin. According to Ms. B, the sign on the bin says that they are used to make artificial limbs.

I asked her why they don't collect the entire can as the whole thing (can and pull tab) are made from aluminum?

She said she doesn't know.

So, for now, we donate the pull tab to the bin at Klang and sell the cans....

TIT

[chownah]

The Klang Plaza Department Store here in Korat collects pull tabs in a big bin. According to Ms. B, the sign on the bin says that they are used to make artificial limbs.

I asked her why they don't collect the entire can as the whole thing (can and pull tab) are made from aluminum?

She said she doesn't know.

So, for now, we donate the pull tab to the bin at Klang and sell the cans....

TIT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well its time to go shopping and I have been saving my pull tabs so I guess I'll go shopping at the Klang Plaza Department Store.

[awarrumbungle]

I heard on the grapevine that it's a royal scheme. The kings will donate x amount of baht per ringpull to buying artificial limbs for poor people who need them.

[chownah]

I heard on the grapevine that it's a royal scheme.  The kings will donate x amount of baht per ringpull to buying artificial limbs for poor people who need them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That old grapevine is just full of useful information isn't it? Happen to have a link to the bunch of grapes spreading this fact?

[mumbojumbo]

My money`s on the ringpull being aluminium.

P.S. there` a couple of beers on this one if I`m right.

                                              Cheers .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm 98.5% your right. I have about 1000 of them now and if they were SS. they would weigh a hel_l of a lot more. Most schools have a program and tell the kids it is for artificial limbs, but don't know. If true, it is a good program.

Collect your beers

[bkkmadness]

Not that I have any more info on this but I used to help my neighbour collect pulltabs from cans back in the UK about 20 yrs ago now. Of course they were the tabs that came all the way off and littered the streets. I hope they went to some good use.

[chownah]

Not that I have any more info on this but I used to help my neighbour collect pulltabs from cans back in the UK about 20 yrs ago now.  Of course they were the tabs that came all the way off and littered the streets.  I hope they went to some good use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are the ones that often got made into decorative chains....especially in college dormitories as a way to brag about how much beer you drank!!!

[leisurely]

I always save the ring pull bits (sustaining many cuts on my thumbs to do it). I understand that they go to a special place to be smelted for artificial limbs and or joints. When I asked why not the whole can I was told that the ring pull thingys are much 'purer'. Whatever. makes me feel better about the amount of chang I chug!

[chownah]

From this link: http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.htm?program...-00052#feature6

I found this:

"DE GUZMAN: Sammath owes his new leg to an innovative program in Thailand that is recycling cheap and readily available plastic and aluminum and turning them into useful prostheses. In the outskirts of Bangkok, aluminum cans are processed and molded into parts for artificial limbs."

and this:

"Dr. Therdchai Cheevaket is the man behind the program. He is the founder of the Thai Prosthesis Foundation, and he's an orthopedic surgeon at Chiang Mai University."

and this:

"Dr. Therdchai says he did not have a lot of money when he started his foundation. So he went looking for cheaper materials to lower the production cost of his artificial limbs. He found help from the Ajinomoto Company, which makes the popularly sweet Thai coffee packed in aluminum cans. Orchachai Atcharanukul, the manager of Ajinomoto's marketing department, started a recycling drive called "One Flip-Top Toward a New Step." Within a year, Mr. Orchachai says they had collected enough aluminum to make about four-and-a-half thousand artificial limbs."

So it looks like aluminum cans will work but that a company has used the collection of "Flip-Top"s to promote its brand AND to help collect free aluminum for making artificial limbs. Anyone who really wants to find out about this could probably contact Dr. Therdchai Cheevaket at the Thai Prosthesis Foundation or at Chiang Mai University.

The link above is produced by Living on Earth which is a feature of NPR (National Public Radio) and was aired in December of 2001. I have only presented snippets from the article and you might like to read the entire thing.

[chang35baht]

My friend who ends up with all the ringpulls collected by us is of the impression that they are being used to make wheelchairs only. But it seems like you guys/gals, and myself included, can only find information that states they are being used to make prosthetic limbs.

P.S. his wife does quite a bit of voluntary work for the Red Cross in Chiang Rai. Maybe his ringpulls are given to them to process.

[awarrumbungle]

Looks like my grapes just went sour

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I heard on the grapevine that it's a royal scheme.  The kings will donate x amount of baht per ringpull to buying artificial limbs for poor people who need them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And so the myth is further perpetuated.

[Kringle]

From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

[MilkPlus]

Its real simple, get a MAGNET!

Kringle Posted Today, 2005-12-07 08:43:28

  From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Thats rediculous, when they recycle aluminum they dont scrub off the "labelling", then knock out the dents and refill the cans They MELT them. The PAINT burns of in a nano-second.

Think, use that noggin of yours.

Edited December 7, 2005 by MilkPlus

[awarrumbungle]

Milkman do you always talk to people like that, or are you just trying to make a good impression? Piss out your territory so to speak.

[MilkPlus]

Milkman do you always talk to people like that, or are you just trying to make a good impression?  Piss out your territory so to speak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Explain "piss out your territory" and Ill give you the answer.

Do mean do I call out people who are talking out their ass with statements like,

"from what I understand...."

If he's going to play Johnny Recycler he should get his facts straight.

The fact that the thread went on for 3 pages with people wondering whether or not the tabs were aluminum scared me a little bit.

Ignorance is bliss, when one keeps ones mouth shout. If you're going to offer your two cents make sure it makes sense.

[buadhai]

Let's see MilkPlus, joined today, 39 posts as of 4:00 PM. Most of them pretty nasty.

Not enough to keep you busy? Hate yourself so much that you feel the need to needlessly rag on others?

There's a few others like you on TV so I guess you're in good company.

[Kringle]

Its real simple, get a MAGNET!    

Kringle Posted Today, 2005-12-07 08:43:28

  From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Thats rediculous, when they recycle aluminum they dont scrub off the "labelling", then knock out the dents and refill the cans They MELT them. The PAINT burns of in a nano-second.

Think, use that noggin of yours.

Look you twerp, the paint might burn off in a nano second but it still leaves an ash which has to be separated from the melted ally which would cost more to process. Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab. Have you ever been to a canning factory? I have and know a bit, never said I knew everything and you can just go suck an egg you twit.

[MilkPlus]

Its real simple, get a MAGNET!    

Kringle Posted Today, 2005-12-07 08:43:28

  From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Thats rediculous, when they recycle aluminum they dont scrub off the "labelling", then knock out the dents and refill the cans They MELT them. The PAINT burns of in a nano-second.

Think, use that noggin of yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look you twerp, the paint might burn off in a nano second but it still leaves an ash which has to be separated from the melted ally which would cost more to process. Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab. Have you ever been to a canning factory? I have and know a bit, never said I knew everything and you can just go suck an egg you twit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No punk thats not what you said, what you said was,

From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and thecost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Your "hypothesis" being that they would rather collect a TINY tab instead of the WHOLE CAN with the TAB on it because removing the "decorations" have a high cost.

Thats laughable, and incorrect. Not only did you say it wrong the first time, you further stuck foot in mouth and didnt even take the time to look up the process that was just a google a way.

Now thats being a moron, and Ill call moron a moron when every time, especially when he calls me twerp and twit.

Im laughing my ass off right now, I love that bit

"Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab

Sorry charlie, wrong AGAIN.

How, exactly are the cans recycled ? After collection and processing the aluminum UBC ( Used Beverage Cans) are shipped by truck, railcar or sea container to smelting plants. The bales of cans are unloaded and tested for quality and moisture content. After inspection, the bales of cans are broken up in a shredder into small pieces. These shredded cans are then conveyed into a De-lacquering oven to remove the paint and residual moisture. The hot shredded aluminum is then passed over a small screen to remove and dirt and contaminants and fed directly into a reverbatory furnace. Heated to 1400 degrees Fahrenheit ( 650 Centigrade) the cans melt and blend in with the molten metal already in the furnace. A mixture of salt and KFl are added as a flux to help separate out any oxides (dross) that are skimmed off.

ie. a process that they would do anyway, paint or not, HAVE you ever been to a plant? The cans come in half full of Chewing tobacco , soda, beer etc.

But noooooooooo Mr. Foot in Mouth has to talk out his about the EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL process being the reason they ONLY want the tiny TABS instead of the whole can.

Its done the same way, paint or not

No 3 parts, no EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL PROCES

in fact if you had read the URBAN MYTH link provided earlier you wouldnt have made a fool of yourself AGAIN.

Your wrong, its as simple as that. No actually its not that simple, you were wrong, and now you are being just plain simple.

[chownah]

Its real simple, get a MAGNET!    

Kringle Posted Today, 2005-12-07 08:43:28

  From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Thats rediculous, when they recycle aluminum they dont scrub off the "labelling", then knock out the dents and refill the cans They MELT them. The PAINT burns of in a nano-second.

Think, use that noggin of yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look you twerp, the paint might burn off in a nano second but it still leaves an ash which has to be separated from the melted ally which would cost more to process. Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab. Have you ever been to a canning factory? I have and know a bit, never said I knew everything and you can just go suck an egg you twit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No punk thats not what you said, what you said was,

From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and thecost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Your "hypothesis" being that they would rather collect a TINY tab instead of the WHOLE CAN with the TAB on it because removing the "decorations" have a high cost.

Thats laughable, and incorrect. Not only did you say it wrong the first time, you further stuck foot in mouth and didnt even take the time to look up the process that was just a google a way.

Now thats being a moron, and Ill call moron a moron when every time, especially when he calls me twerp and twit.

Im laughing my ass off right now, I love that bit

"Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab

Sorry charlie, wrong AGAIN.

How, exactly are the cans recycled ? After collection and processing the aluminum UBC ( Used Beverage Cans) are shipped by truck, railcar or sea container to smelting plants. The bales of cans are unloaded and tested for quality and moisture content. After inspection, the bales of cans are broken up in a shredder into small pieces. These shredded cans are then conveyed into a De-lacquering oven to remove the paint and residual moisture. The hot shredded aluminum is then passed over a small screen to remove and dirt and contaminants and fed directly into a reverbatory furnace. Heated to 1400 degrees Fahrenheit ( 650 Centigrade) the cans melt and blend in with the molten metal already in the furnace. A mixture of salt and KFl are added as a flux to help separate out any oxides (dross) that are skimmed off.

ie. a process that they would do anyway, paint or not, HAVE you ever been to a plant? The cans come in half full of Chewing tobacco , soda, beer etc.

But noooooooooo Mr. Foot in Mouth has to talk out his about the EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL process being the reason they ONLY want the tiny TABS instead of the whole can.

Its done the same way, paint or not

No 3 parts, no EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL PROCES

in fact if you had read the URBAN MYTH link provided earlier you wouldnt have made a fool of yourself AGAIN.

Your wrong, its as simple as that. No actually its not that simple, you were wrong, and now you are being just plain simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have posted the industrial method for melting used beverage cans....and it was really interesting...thank you very much...but we are not discussing the workings of an industrial aluminum recycling facility...we are discussing (at least the original post and I were discussing) the collection of ring pulls for donation to charity. The only credible information I could find via google about ring pulls in Thailand being donated for charity was for the fabrication of artificial legs and I posted a contact person in a previous post here in this thread. It seems that this is a very small operation and seem to be working on a very small budget. If they could (or should I say 'since they can') collect enough of the rings then they would eliminate the need for the De-lacquering oven....also they wouldn't have a problem with cleaning, removing moisture, and shredding.

In conclusion I think that both you and Kringle are twerps and twits and Mr. Feetinthemouths! haha since the real reason they only collect the tabs is that cans are too bulky, smelly, and vermin ridden to store and handle and the donation bins would have to be too big to locate them where the public would have access to them and having all the little collection receptacles where people can see them is great advertising both for the artificial leg making people, the company whose cans are being recycled, and the store where the little bins are located.....and they end up getting enough material for their needs anyway!! It is probably one of the few well thought out systems in Thailand....I can almost guarantee that it wasn't created by the gov't!!

[MilkPlus]

Its real simple, get a MAGNET!

Kringle Posted Today, 2005-12-07 08:43:28

  From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and the cost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Thats rediculous, when they recycle aluminum they dont scrub off the "labelling", then knock out the dents and refill the cans They MELT them. The PAINT burns of in a nano-second.

Think, use that noggin of yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look you twerp, the paint might burn off in a nano second but it still leaves an ash which has to be separated from the melted ally which would cost more to process. Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab. Have you ever been to a canning factory? I have and know a bit, never said I knew everything and you can just go suck an egg you twit.

No punk thats not what you said, what you said was,

From what I understand about the cans not being saved for this is that the cans have labelling on them and thecost to remove this is high so the tabs are used instead.

Your "hypothesis" being that they would rather collect a TINY tab instead of the WHOLE CAN with the TAB on it because removing the "decorations" have a high cost.

Thats laughable, and incorrect. Not only did you say it wrong the first time, you further stuck foot in mouth and didnt even take the time to look up the process that was just a google a way.

Now thats being a moron, and Ill call moron a moron when every time, especially when he calls me twerp and twit.

Im laughing my ass off right now, I love that bit

"Cans are made from 3 parts, the shell, end and tab

Sorry charlie, wrong AGAIN.

How, exactly are the cans recycled ? After collection and processing the aluminum UBC ( Used Beverage Cans) are shipped by truck, railcar or sea container to smelting plants. The bales of cans are unloaded and tested for quality and moisture content. After inspection, the bales of cans are broken up in a shredder into small pieces. These shredded cans are then conveyed into a De-lacquering oven to remove the paint and residual moisture. The hot shredded aluminum is then passed over a small screen to remove and dirt and contaminants and fed directly into a reverbatory furnace. Heated to 1400 degrees Fahrenheit ( 650 Centigrade) the cans melt and blend in with the molten metal already in the furnace. A mixture of salt and KFl are added as a flux to help separate out any oxides (dross) that are skimmed off.

ie. a process that they would do anyway, paint or not, HAVE you ever been to a plant? The cans come in half full of Chewing tobacco , soda, beer etc.

But noooooooooo Mr. Foot in Mouth has to talk out his about the EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL process being the reason they ONLY want the tiny TABS instead of the whole can.

Its done the same way, paint or not

No 3 parts, no EXPENSIVE DECORATION REMOVAL PROCES

in fact if you had read the URBAN MYTH link provided earlier you wouldnt have made a fool of yourself AGAIN.

Your wrong, its as simple as that. No actually its not that simple, you were wrong, and now you are being just plain simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have posted the industrial method for melting used beverage cans....and it was really interesting...thank you very much...but we are not discussing the workings of an industrial aluminum recycling facility...we are discussing (at least the original post and I were discussing) the collection of ring pulls for donation to charity. The only credible information I could find via google about ring pulls in Thailand being donated for charity was for the fabrication of artificial legs and I posted a contact person in a previous post here in this thread. It seems that this is a very small operation and seem to be working on a very small budget. If they could (or should I say 'since they can') collect enough of the rings then they would eliminate the need for the De-lacquering oven....also they wouldn't have a problem with cleaning, removing moisture, and shredding.

In conclusion I think that both you and Kringle are twerps and twits and Mr. Feetinthemouths! haha since the real reason they only collect the tabs is that cans are too bulky, smelly, and vermin ridden to store and handle and the donation bins would have to be too big to locate them where the public would have access to them and having all the little collection receptacles where people can see them is great advertising both for the artificial leg making people, the company whose cans are being recycled, and the store where the little bins are located.....and they end up getting enough material for their needs anyway!! It is probably one of the few well thought out systems in Thailand....I can almost guarantee that it wasn't created by the gov't!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, thats funny, well you have fun then. You should be able to get a limb paid for in about 10 years.

Dont worry, a rich farang will come in and save the day, in ONE day.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Show us the bucks then. When will we see a practical demonstration of largesse ?

[MilkPlus]

Show us the bucks then. When will we see a practical demonstration of largesse ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, looks like the good Dr. has been playing with the Thesaurus again

OK, (you should know better by now)

A Single Step. Autobiography: Heather's advance, as well as all royalties for the book, are donated to Adopt A Minefield. The book can be purchased directly from Adopt A Minefield. For US & Worldwide residents click here, UK residents click here.

http://www.mag.org.uk/

http://www.halotrust.org/

Hmmmmm, lets move on to sayyyyyyyyyyyy Billy and his good wife Melinda, lets see what theyve been up to shall we?

The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization

The foundation gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on 25 January 2005.

Official site: VaccineAlliance.org, Donation press release

Related links: News item at vnunet.com

[edit]The Institute for OneWorld Health

The foundation gave The Institute for OneWorld Health a donation of nearly US$10m to support the organization's work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis (VL).

[edit]

Indian Ocean Earthquake

The foundation made total grant donations of US $3 million to various charities to help with the aid effort for victims of the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake. These charities include:

CARE international

International Rescue Committee

Mercy Corps

Save the Children

World Vision

[edit]

Children's Vaccine Program

The Children's Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), received a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate Japanese encephalitis on 9 December 2003.

Official site: ChildrensVaccine.org, Donation press release

[edit]

Gates Millennium Scholars

Administered by the United Negro College Fund the foundation donated $1 billion US for minority student scholarships.

Official site: www.gmsp.org

[edit]

Access to Learning Award

Each year an award of up to US$1 million is given to a public library or similar organization outside the United States that has an innovative program offering the public free access to information technology.

Official site: Part of CLIR.org

[edit]

Gates Cambridge Scholarships

Donated US$210 million In October 2000 to help people outside of the United Kingdom study at the University of Cambridge. Approximately 100 students every year are funded.

Official website

[edit]

University Scholars Program

Endowed a scholarship program in 1998 at Melinda Gates' alma mater, Duke University. The program provides full-ride scholarships to about 10 members of each undergraduate class, and one member in each class in each of the professional schools (Schools of Medicine, Business, Law, Divinity, Environment, and Nursing). The program also pays for a full-time administrator who organizes seminars to bring these scholars together for interdisciplinary discussions as well as the selection process in the Spring.

[edit]

Computer History

It donated $15 million to the Computer History Museum in October, 2005. [1]

[edit]

Rice Research

Donated US$800,000 to the Philippine Rice Research Institute to develop rice with higher amounts of micronutrients. [2]

[edit]

Discovery Institute

Donated $1 million in 2000 to the Discovery Institute and pledged $9.35 million over 10 years in 2003, including $50,000 of Bruce Chapman's $141,000 annual salary. The money of grant is "exclusive to the Cascadia project" on regional transportation, according to a Gates Foundation grant maker

So tell me, what has THAIVISA done for charity? (im not saying they havent done anything, but it would make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to here the heroic tales of Dr. Pat Pong.

[chownah]

Wow, thats funny,  well you have fun then.  You should be able to get a limb paid for in about 10 years.

Dont worry, a rich farang will come in and save the day, in ONE day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it is my belief that collecting the tabs is not being promoted to save money on the aluminum....the amount of aluminum used is relatively insignificant in the overall expense of the program. They do this for the promotion value...promotion for the charity, the company which sells the product in the aluminum cans, the stores that collect the tabs, and for general recycling. They don't want to accumulate a 'life time supply' of aluminum very quickly because then this great promotional scheme would vanish....the longer it takes to collect the aluminum the longer the promotion lasts!!! I think its brilliant...so don't anyone donate too much too soon...but on the other hand if there is any surplus aluminum above the amount they need for making limbs then they can sell it!!!

[MilkPlus]

Wow, thats funny,  well you have fun then.  You should be able to get a limb paid for in about 10 years.

Dont worry, a rich farang will come in and save the day, in ONE day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it is my belief that collecting the tabs is not being promoted to save money on the aluminum....the amount of aluminum used is relatively insignificant in the overall expense of the program. They do this for the promotion value...promotion for the charity, the company which sells the product in the aluminum cans, the stores that collect the tabs, and for general recycling. They don't want to accumulate a 'life time supply' of aluminum very quickly because then this great promotional scheme would vanish....the longer it takes to collect the aluminum the longer the promotion lasts!!! I think its brilliant...so don't anyone donate too much too soon...but on the other hand if there is any surplus aluminum above the amount they need for making limbs then they can sell it!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Keep up the flaming. Go for it hero.

[MilkPlus]

Keep up the flaming. Go for it hero.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're the one stalking me.

You asked a question, I answered it.

And if you're talking about the goo goo gooogly eyes to the above post I actually was biting my tongue.

Would you like me to have ripped that "marketing scheme/hypothesis" apart?

No, so I didnt, but it is , just forget it, I bite lip.