Songkran Is It Timeto Legislate?

[MAJIC]

Firstly My wife wouldn't agree with any of this so,i'm going to be the boss,and not going to let her see any of this.

But seriously, is it just me that does not look forward to Songkran? i'm not a boring old fart who does not like children playing,

and that's the point,this is a deadly game that children and adults should be playing with more caution,here are some dismal figures:

Official figures from 2000 to 2010 quoted: 5050 Deaths and 187,300 injuries from accidents over Songkran periods for these years,.....is this acceptable for what is only a game? working out the 10 year figures 5050 divide 10 years divide 7 days songkran = 72 deaths a day over Songkran.plus the 187,300 accidents,which equal 2676 a day over Songkran within the periods stated, Is it worth it ?.most certainly not if you have lost a loved one.

What started out as a 2 or 3 day festival has now stretched to a week in some places,far too long in my view.

And what really annoys me is that there has been no education on the doe's and dont's of Songkran,one obvious example,someone who is driving a motorcycle may lose control of the bike and be badly injured,and even worse,ice cold water on a old person,who is driving a motorcycle,may also cause a heart attack,and be three times at risk,but nobody gives a S*** because having a good time is all important.

Some of the highly dangerous things I seen,16 people in the back of a pickup throwing water at each other,a young mother holding onto a Baby (perhaps a month old) with one arm and throwing water with the other arm,four people on a motorcycle being inundated with water (as if 4 on bike wasn't dangerous enough) I'm sure many could add to the list.

So the main question on this:..... is having fun worth dying for? or losing a family member,friend etc?

Thankfully I and my family are out of it,at least for this year.

[Ijustwannateach]

What is needed is a massive shift in education towards a belief in materialistic consequences- in other words, if you drive drunk or stupidly, you increase your chance of accidents. Driving drunk and/or recklessly is already illegal, but as you point out, it's hardly stopping anyone. So I doubt new legislation would really help.

[cobbler]

That's great Majic.Sounds like you forgot why you came to live here in the first place.FREEDOM.Maybe you need to go back to your western country for a while and observe how many government departments there are telling average taxpayers how and where to sit stand walk talk ECT ECT.Got it now.Example.In Asstralia oops australia there are more government jobs (taxpayer funded jobs) than productive jobs.They have a rule for everything.It's killed all outdoor festivals ect.

Try staying indoors for a week,look at T.V or something.Stop worrying,relax.

Cheers Cobbler.

P.S. What government department did you say you were from?

[cobbler]

Hi Ijustwannateach,

What government department Are you from again?

It's great you will be the one to fund this education program,YOURSELF.HAHAHA.

Cheers Cobbler

Edited February 5, 2012 by cobbler

[necronx99]

Legislation in LOS would probably be futile, education and diversion would be prefereable but also probably futile...sigh...

I don't mind it on the streets, in the markets and parks etc, but the stuff on the roads is just insane. But we all know the lack of importance Thai's give to roads, motor vehicles and life loss.

[MAJIC]

That's great Majic.Sounds like you forgot why you came to live here in the first place.FREEDOM.Maybe you need to go back to your western country for a while and observe how many government departments there are telling average taxpayers how and where to sit stand walk talk ECT ECT.Got it now.Example.In Asstralia oops australia there are more government jobs (taxpayer funded jobs) than productive jobs.They have a rule for everything.It's killed all outdoor festivals ect.

Try staying indoors for a week,look at T.V or something.Stop worrying,relax.

Cheers Cobbler.

P.S. What government department did you say you were from?

Well I did'nt come to Thailand to have someone who has got no concept of danger to risk my life, and my familys life.

If you like playing Russian Roulette,then good for you! and my department (non governmental) is self preservation!

Have a good Songkran.Got it?

[MAJIC]

What is needed is a massive shift in education towards a belief in materialistic consequences- in other words, if you drive drunk or stupidly, you increase your chance of accidents. Driving drunk and/or recklessly is already illegal, but as you point out, it's hardly stopping anyone. So I doubt new legislation would really help.

You are probably right, as in most instances Education is the only answer,which unfortunately may take a long time.

[theoldgit]

I voted that there should be something done about this yearly carnage, I know in my heart of hearts that for as long as many Thai people seem to care so little for the loss of human life, there will be no end to this terrible loss of life.

I still don't understand how throwing copious amounts of ice cold water into the face of passing motorcyclists with such force can be regarded as fun.

What does seriously concern me is the fact that two people consider that the loss of 5050 human lives is acceptable.

[phuturatica]

I agree that education is definitely the answer to this but it will be a long time before people start to take notice and change.

[Ulysses G.]

I am all for any legislation that prevents deaths, but that is a whole different issue from banning the holiday because a bunch of grumpy old foreigners don't want to get wet.

[rayong09]

Firstly My wife wouldn't agree with any of this

Neither would any other Thai if you don't like traditional festivals that have been going on for years and years here in Thailand then bugger off.

[necronx99]

Firstly My wife wouldn't agree with any of this

Neither would any other Thai if you don't like traditional festivals that have been going on for years and years here in Thailand then bugger off.

I'm pretty sure most Thais dont appreciate having handfuls of flour and then buckets of water thrown over their windshields or being shot in the face by a watercannon while they are driving/riding either. Songkran is a far cry today from what it traditionally was.

[DP25]

The big problem with Songkran is the drunk driving, not the water fights. Banning the squirtguns and water bucket trucks will make grumpy old farts drier but people will still be dieing in huge numbers. There need to be heavier penalties for drunk driving and it needs to be become culturally unacceptable. Drunk driving used to not be a big deal back home in the US too but the attitude changed over time by campaigning against it.

[chris2004]

I hate Songhran but i think it's great that people can do it here. That is one of the things i love about Thailand we DON'T have overpaid/overstaffed governments telling us what we can or can't do. What we need is LESS leglislation not more. If you don't like it stay in doors or go away for the week.

[StreetCowboy]

Out of interest, what proportion of the 500 or so who die over Songkran are involved in "dangerous water games"? And how many are just motorcyclists who through their own stupidity have drunk too much and lose control of their vehicles?

How dangerous is it, for people who are themselves sensible and prudent?

In the UK, we aggressively applied existing legislation to reduce the death toll over the holiday period, as it was perceived that the cost to society was too great.

If one avoids motorcycling, then I think the risk to yourself is relatively small... the cost of other people's accidents is born by Thai society, and it is for them to decide what they can tolerate.

SC

[isanbirder]

The death toll is only incidentally due to Songkran; it is due much more to the complete flouting of traffic laws mainly, but not entirely, by motorcyclists... drunk driving, no helmets etc.

Anyone who rides a motorbike through a water-intensive zone during Songkran, especially without a helmet, needs his/her head seen to.... and, sadly enough, will probably get just that. (And I haven't forgotten essential services).

[toybits]

The accidents are caused by DUI, lax implementation of traffic laws, massive traffic mobilization during the festival and NOT the festival itself. The poll wants to become a nanny to a foreign country. Love it or leave it.

[StreetCowboy]

The accidents are caused by DUI, lax implementation of traffic laws, massive traffic mobilization during the festival and NOT the festival itself. The poll wants to become a nanny to a foreign country. Love it or leave it.

I don't think that the OP was trying to legislate against songkran; no doubt it would still appear on calendars. What he was suggesting was clamping down on throwing buckets of iced water over motorcyclists. So far, I've not seen anyone explain the benefits of this, though not having tried it myself, I am interested to know how many of the 500 killed each year die from such foolishness, and therefore whether it is a problem that we (meaning they) should be clamping down on, or whether it is just a problem in our perception.

SC

[meatboy]

1989 was the first time to travel on the roads during songkran[bkk to korat] on the old road i have never seen so many idiots driving alongside other vehicles to throw buckets of water over each other,going and coming back it was obvious there had been many head on collisions,that was the first and last time i ventured out on the roads,fun i dont think so but there again t.i.t.

[theoldgit]

I have to say that the stupidity isn't restricted to Thai revellers, over the years I have seen many drunk foreigners taking great delight in ensuring that people were actually hurt.

I will admit to joining in the "fun", my girlfriend and I have been to Soi Cowboy for the last few years, anybody entering this area knows that they will get wet, it's quite enjoyable in a closed off soi. But even then there are the idiots, last year there was a guy of indian origin, he was taking great delight in throwing water, with as much force as he could muster, the the face of passing people.

[Mobi]

There are three, issues here.

The first, is the extended period of the Songkran celebration itself. Many people, mainly farang residents, have a problem with the duration of the celebrations which can be anything up to 2 weeks in Pattaya and if you take Chonburi as a whole it seems to go on for almost a month as the celebrations move from town to town.

Yes, you can complain that this is a long way from the original ‘intent’ of Songkran which officially only lasts 3 days, and in its purest sense, only 1 day. But the fact of the matter is that the towns in Chonburi Province, particularly places like Bang Saen and Pattaya, derive considerable income from the prolonged festival, as visitors, both foreign and Thai, throng into their towns to celebrate and spend their money.

And who are we, guests in their country, to deny them this valuable source of income?

And let’s not forget that it is the Thais who are celebrating their own, unique New Year festival, the biggest holiday in their calendar. Who are we to deny them the undoubted pleasure that so many derive from throwing water at each other for a few days?

Just look at the families and friends in the back of pick-ups or those who gather along the sides of roads and you will know that for so many – especially the poor – it is the high point of their year.

The next point revolves around the somewhat thoughtless and dangerous practices that have grown over the years and perpetrated by certain fringe elements, particularly in places like Pattaya - where drunken farangs are every bit to blame as the Thais. Yes, some of these practices should be condemned and controlled, like white paste being rubbed onto vehicles and often damaging the paintwork, ice being thrown indiscriminately and the use of high pressure water cannons and metal pipes, and especially the practice of throwing water and ice at passing motorcycles.

Some of these practices can cause accidents and ideally, should be stopped; but with virtually the whole country celebrating, it must be a very difficult thing to control. Do you honestly think that any country in the west who tried to hold a nation-wide annual water festival would be in any better position to control the unruly, extreme elements? On the contrary, I can imagine in most countries there would be a blood bath. In the circumstances, I think it is a miracle there isn’t more mayhem.

Yes there are some nasty accidents as a result of motorcyclists crashing after being swamped with water, but a vast majority of injuries and deaths are simply due to drunk and bad driving – not because someone threw water at them. This is the third issue; the high number of fatal road accidents, mainly suffered by motorcyclists, although there are always a few terrible bus accidents as well.

Much of this is due to drunken driving, but it is also due to the massive amount of traffic on all the major roads, as literally millions of Thais rush to their home provinces for a few days to celebrate the holiday with their families. So what would the OP do? Forbid people from travelling home?

Certainly the government and the police are well aware of the increased potential for drunken accidents and this is why they set up road blocks nationwide to try and deter drunk driving, and lock up as many perpetrators as they can catch. They also launch nationwide campaigns extolling people to not drink and drive. Again – what more would you have them do?

The only way to stop the death and mayhem that is Songkran is to ban it altogether, and then all the farangs will be happy. No, correction, all the resident farangs will be happy, for most the foreign tourists actually come to Thailand to join in the celebrations.

I am no personal fan of Songkran and I try to avoid going to areas where it is being celebrated, but that is because I am an ageing, grumpy old farang. On several occasions I have left the country until the celebrations are over.

But every Thai I have ever been involved with, including many girlfriends, wives and their friends and families have always loved Songkran and love to celebrate, as indeed do my family from the UK when they have been over here.

If you go up country you will rarely see any of the extreme, ‘dangerous’ practices that you see in places like Pattaya and the celebrations are far more ‘civilised’. So you could even argue that it is the farang influence that has helped create the unfortunate proliferation of what was once a gentle water sprinkling ceremony.

To conclude, you are never going to change the ways in which Songkran is celebrated, and however hard the authorities try to ban dangerous practices, there will always be many who will ignore the bans and do as they like.

So, if you hate it that much, stay at home or leave the country and let your host country be happy and celebrate their New Year.

[guzzi850m2]

For me its the length of the celebration thats a pain, no problem with 2 days. In Pattaya they start at certain beer bars down town way sooner than the official dates. Mostly tourists and bar girls having fun but the people getting drenched don't seems too impressed.

I have now learned the hard way when to start to avoid those places or take the car if I for some reason has to go to that area.

In Pattaya and Nation wide they have now started with road blocks on the official cleb. dates which hopefully will help reducing all the accidents due to drunk drivers.

The police in Patts also often drove slowly though Beach Road/ Second Rd and confiscate all illegal water canons, saw a police pick up truck last year filled to the brim with water canons (one of them was mine), he-he.

Yes as many also says, stay away if you don't like it or don shorts and flip flops and join the madness that is so unique for Thailand

[pattayadingo]

Impossible to answer those questions en mass because each area is different.. Some areas of Thailand have 2 days of Sonkran some, like Pattaya have a week. You can avoid a lot of it if you wish to, but to many it is what the holiday is all about.

So many accidents? Yes it is too many. But until the police force start a major campaign against drunk & dangerous driving it will continue. Road blocks all over the country with breathalysers would be needed.

Also a television campaign is needed to educate Thai people ( not they will listen ).

[geriatrickid]

That's great Majic.Sounds like you forgot why you came to live here in the first place.FREEDOM.Maybe you need to go back to your western country for a while and observe how many government departments there are telling average taxpayers how and where to sit stand walk talk ECT ECT.Got it now.Example.In Asstralia oops australia there are more government jobs (taxpayer funded jobs) than productive jobs.They have a rule for everything.It's killed all outdoor festivals ect.

Try staying indoors for a week,look at T.V or something.Stop worrying,relax.

Cheers Cobbler.

P.S. What government department did you say you were from?

Well I did'nt come to Thailand to have someone who has got no concept of danger to risk my life, and my familys life.

If you like playing Russian Roulette,then good for you! and my department (non governmental) is self preservation!

Have a good Songkran.Got it?

And you wasted time replying to him? Seriously, why do you even bother trying to explain an intelligent position? You are right. I know it, and anyone with some semblance of intelligence knows it. Songkran has gone from being a religious fun festival to an excuse to assault and disrespect others. It is mob rule at its worst. I for one will be in Hong Kong taking refuge.

[isanbirder]

The traffic laws should be enforced year-long, not just at Songkran. There is another accident peak at the other long holiday, New Year. Habits will never be changed by twice-yearly week-long blitzes.

There's nothing wrong with the water-throwing per se... it is a joyous form of celebration throughout much of SE Asia, and of course should be continued. The poll, IMO, is valueless, as it gives too few options (like, of course we don't want all those accidents, but where does saying that get us?)

[Kwasaki]

Legislate !! What a bloody stupid thing for a foreigner to say in Thailand for one of many.

We have few problems in the Songkran festival it's great to see people enjoying themselves.

Funny my Thai teacher friend was here while I opened this, after explaining a bit about what the OP was on about, he just said " He is not Thai why does he want to interfere in what Thais do ", unable to post the reply.

[Mobi]

But until the police force start a major campaign against drunk & dangerous driving it will continue. Road blocks all over the country with breathalysers would be needed.

Also a television campaign is needed to educate Thai people ( not they will listen ).

Sorry, but this is already being done. At Songkran and New Year you get frequent road blocks on every major road in Thailand and on thousands of minor roads that lead to and from villages. There is also a major publicity campaign launched every year in the Thai press radio and TV.

Unfortunately it seems to have little effect, although who knows - if they didn't take these measures, maybe the number of deaths will double.

Don't forget that the the accident stats that are published during Songkran are not that much higher than on any normal weekend on the Thai roads.

Until serious steps are taken to ensure all drivers are properly educated on how to drive safely and are given a proper driving test before being allowed onto the roads,with appropriate heavy penalties for dangerous driving, driving without a licence etc., then this carnage will continue - Songkran or no Songkran.

[Pseudolus]

Great idea. The police will have another bumper pay day or two each year as they walk around dishing out on the spot fines to anyone with a bottle of water in their hand.

[toybits]

How would you feel if an Asian or an African told you how you should behave after a Superbowl game or during Thanksgiving. No matter how you put it - it would sound unwelcome. They should realize that there is too much carnage on the road. You can whine all you like and it won't matter because we are just visitors here. Be aware of the danger. Be aware that while you are not DUI, the other guy might be. Keep off the highway.

Putting ice in the bucket is something only Thais would understand. It is called Sanuk. If you don't understand sanuk - then there is no point in replying to you.

The accidents are caused by DUI, lax implementation of traffic laws, massive traffic mobilization during the festival and NOT the festival itself. The poll wants to become a nanny to a foreign country. Love it or leave it.

I don't think that the OP was trying to legislate against songkran; no doubt it would still appear on calendars. What he was suggesting was clamping down on throwing buckets of iced water over motorcyclists. So far, I've not seen anyone explain the benefits of this, though not having tried it myself, I am interested to know how many of the 500 killed each year die from such foolishness, and therefore whether it is a problem that we (meaning they) should be clamping down on, or whether it is just a problem in our perception.

SC

[GuestHouse]

How would you feel if an Asian or an African told you how you should behave after a Superbowl game or during Thanksgiving. No matter how you put it - it would sound unwelcome. They should realize that there is too much carnage on the road. You can whine all you like and it won't matter because we are just visitors here. Be aware of the danger. Be aware that while you are not DUI, the other guy might be. Keep off the highway.

Putting ice in the bucket is something only Thais would understand. It is called Sanuk. If you don't understand sanuk - then there is no point in replying to you.

You seemingly miss the point that very many Thais agree that Sonkran Festivities have become too boisterous, too dangerous and go on for too long.

The subtext of your argument is that as foreigners we should not express our criticism, seemingly missing the other point that many of us are raising (Thai) families in Thailand and that the act of commenting on something that is so dangerous is in truth a positive contribution to our life in Thailand, the life of our families (and those we care about) and ultimately to the lives of all Thai people in Thailand.

You of course have the right to be a 'passive guest'. You do not have the right to enforce dumb acceptance on the rest of us.

Edited February 6, 2012 by GuestHouse