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Thailand Falters As Its Neighbors Rise Rapidly


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Thai and Thailand have no fear.

We are number 1 in ASEAN.

Number 2 in ASIA, after Japan.

We have plenty of rice in our field, and much fish in our water.

And above all, we have a great king, to much envy of all other countires in the whole universe.

Great head in the sand attitude..... Pssst....Indonesia is in ASEAN, and has an economy that is TWICE as large as Thailand. Get your facts straight. I think the well known Thai saying about the rice and the fish was probably made a long time ago when Thailand was primarily an agrarian country. Does not really apply to factory workers in the present age.

Actually, I am thinking that sparebox2, being Thai, exhibits an unusual talent for irony.

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Thailand was it its top, regionally speaking, in 2005.

At this time, we could imagine Bangkok to compete with Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong. It was Thaksin obsession, maybe for his own ego, not for the good sake of Thailand. He forgot to watch what was happening home and to follow simple rules of common sense. He felt.

2006 - 2011, the army - yellow - Dem's gave up the foreign policy to focus only on interior struggles. Thailand was ridiculous. And even worst they tried to incite a full war with Cambodia. It was the Thai suicide.

The current PM lacks probably a long term view about the foreign policy but, at least, if she does not make the same childish mistakes than her predecessor, Thailand, little by little, could regain its rank. If she has time... It, eventually, depends on the army - yellow - Dem's to allow her to work.

I agree with you, from personal experience.

In 2005, for various reasons, a number of international companies were (strongly !) considering Bangkok as a regional centre for their SE Asia operation.

Then came the coup. These international companies opted for a wait and see attitude. Then came the occupation of the international airport. It was the straw that broke the camel back. If a country can't assure international communication, this country has no place on an international map. And I pass on the various "person in charge" attitude at the time, both in the army and in the democrat camp. To appoint a PAD leader as foreign minister was akin to spit in the face of the international community.

Now the Shinawatra camp and their associates are trying to repair the damages done but it's going to take sometime for the foreign business community to forget what happened during the past few years.

Seems you are forgetting some very major issues, such a the GFC!. Also what about the 1.4 trillion baht debt from the 97 crash thats still being kicked down the road. Thaskin was lucky to be in control during the greatest finacial period ever and was out by the time it crashed. It was his rampant corruption that spawned the yellow shirts and his stalling of the election that caused the coup. His ineptitude as a politician is only exceeded by his incompetence as a businessman. He is the reason Thailand is faultering.

Edited by waza
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Thai and Thailand have no fear.

We are number 1 in ASEAN.

Number 2 in ASIA, after Japan.

We have plenty of rice in our field, and much fish in our water.

And above all, we have a great king, to much envy of all other countires in the whole universe.

Great head in the sand attitude..... Pssst....Indonesia is in ASEAN, and has an economy that is TWICE as large as Thailand. Get your facts straight. I think the well known Thai saying about the rice and the fish was probably made a long time ago when Thailand was primarily an agrarian country. Does not really apply to factory workers in the present age.

Actually, I am thinking that sparebox2, being Thai, exhibits an unusual talent for irony.

You know he is really Thai? Really?
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Forget about keeping up with Burma, Laos and Cambodia – Thailand had the resources to even surpass Singapore.

There were so many foreign investors lining up to do business here. Thailand could have been the economic regional hub as oppose to Singapore. It has cheap labour and land – something Singapore can’t compete on. It was meant to have to a modern metropolitan, able to take on Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and to be the next Hong Kong.

Instead Thailand turned off foreign investors with its countless bureaucracy, paperwork and under-table deals. It can’t get any infrastructure projects off the ground because of corruption. To the foreign investors who still remained, the government gives them the cold shoulder e.g. “Japanese manufacturers have insurance they don’t need any support for the flood aftermath” – Thailand govt.

The previous comments here are spot on. Thailand, much like their attitude to “customer service”, is complacent.

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Thailand was it its top, regionally speaking, in 2005.

At this time, we could imagine Bangkok to compete with Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong. It was Thaksin obsession, maybe for his own ego, not for the good sake of Thailand. He forgot to watch what was happening home and to follow simple rules of common sense. He felt.

2006 - 2011, the army - yellow - Dem's gave up the foreign policy to focus only on interior struggles. Thailand was ridiculous. And even worst they tried to incite a full war with Cambodia. It was the Thai suicide.

The current PM lacks probably a long term view about the foreign policy but, at least, if she does not make the same childish mistakes than her predecessor, Thailand, little by little, could regain its rank. If she has time... It, eventually, depends on the army - yellow - Dem's to allow her to work.

I agree with you, from personal experience.

In 2005, for various reasons, a number of international companies were (strongly !) considering Bangkok as a regional centre for their SE Asia operation.

Then came the coup. These international companies opted for a wait and see attitude. Then came the occupation of the international airport. It was the straw that broke the camel back. If a country can't assure international communication, this country has no place on an international map. And I pass on the various "person in charge" attitude at the time, both in the army and in the democrat camp. To appoint a PAD leader as foreign minister was akin to spit in the face of the international community.

Now the Shinawatra camp and their associates are trying to repair the damages done but it's going to take sometime for the foreign business community to forget what happened during the past few years.

Actually some are even concerned about the assurances of the Thai government that there will be no catastrophic floods this year. Some factories stay closed, some may open in March meaning FOUR months non-activity. Not easely forgotten, even two months terrorismprotests in Bangkok in 2010 wasn't that damaging.

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Actually some are even concerned about the assurances of the Thai government that there will be no catastrophic floods this year. Some factories stay closed, some may open in March meaning FOUR months non-activity. Not easely forgotten, even two months protests in Bangkok in 2010 wasn't that damaging.

Some won't be operating until September this year - I think Western Digital is one of them.

Takes about 9 months for new machinery to be manufactured, shipped and installed.

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Finally, an article that actually warrants some merit. Seeing the line-up of Davos politicians that met with Yingluck was an important indicator of this phenomenon. Thailand barely earns a mention in the geopolitical importance department and that would likely be because of highly unpredictable government dynamics and proxy-leadership. It is entertaining to read articles like this in which confusion (and especially colonial-tinged paranoia) over the Western courtship of Burma reigns supreme. That Western leaders are bending over backwards to pat Myanmar on the back should come as no surprise. Not only is China containment a significant consideration but the Burmese have massive unexploited environmental potential. Penny-pinching Western leaders are looking hungrily at cheap natural resources.

In addition to rampant grammatical errors, this article also fails to explore the 'why' (surprise, surprise) for Thailand's recent downgrades in geopolitical and economic importance. I'm sure, if anyone pressed, that the answer would be 'floods and unpredictable weather'. If only that were the whole story.

An interesting comment, particularly regarding the loss of thread in some parts and poor spelling and gramar.

Many have commented adversely regarding Thailand's many faults as a developing Country. Whilst the Visa system is a pain, but hey-ho so is the Brtish and European Visa systems for Thai Citizens. I speak from personal experience of obtaining them for my Thai Wife. As for expecting there to be no corruption (or a lot less) in Cambodia, Lao and Burma, I think many of your correspondents are seeing things through "rose tinted glasses" . Cambodia is still trying to recover from the Pol Pot horrors and the eradication of anyone who had any sort of education. It will take time to replace these leaders and academics and who knows what scars it has left on the Nation? Laos is still a Communist Country and from my observations, is still trying to come to terms with developing some sort of Business Strategy that will be financially beneficial to the Country. I would say they are 20 years or more behind Thailand. Whilst Burma might be the new "Darling of the Far East", do people actually think that the Country is not rampant with corruption and has immense Regional socio/political hurdles to overcome, which are far worse than Thailand is currently experiencing. Whilst it is very bonding to join the "whispering hoards" knocking Thailand for being inward looking, corrupt, inconvenient house purchase and Visa laws, I would suggest that the grass is not greener on the other side viz-a-viz Burma, Cambodia and Lao!

There isn't much to counter what you've said. Thailand will not lose it's status as a lower-middle income developing country over the next couple of years. It will remain a better investment option than Indonesia (for maybe a couple more years), the Philippines (for a while longer), and India. That is important to remember; Thailand, despite it's geopolitical lack of significance, is regionally still of note. I guess my personal issue with Thailand is that it could so evidently be better than it is. It's very difficult to stomach some of daily life here when you travel to Singapore or Taiwan. Nevertheless, the point made above is a really good one because while those of us that envision a better Thailand have much criticism, it could always get worse. It's also very, very early to get excited about Burma and the Western reaction to any provocative reform is extremely premature.

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Thailands strength has always been the weakness of its neighbours. Once they all start developing, lazy Thailand will be left behind.Burma has

hundredsof magnificent little islands presumably far more pristine than over commercialised Phuket. Great for eco tourism.

Laos is coming up albeit slowly and Cambodia should be ready to rejoin the human race within 10 years.

Biggest problem in Thailand is the country is owned by the top 100 or so richest Thai and Chinese Thai families. They want to keep the status quo. Tobacco monopoly, alcohol /beverages monopoly, pseudo monopolies created by shutting out competition using huge import duties and appalling corruption at the docks and airports.

You're right. In Burma, Cambodia, and Laos their countries are owned by only the top 12 richest families controlling everything. Thailand very bad!

It is pretty unique to Thailand that when people defend the country, they simultaneously make fun of it.

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Thai and Thailand have no fear.

We are number 1 in ASEAN.

Number 2 in ASIA, after Japan.

We have plenty of rice in our field, and much fish in our water.

And above all, we have a great king, to much envy of all other countires in the whole universe.

Why does Thailand faltering not surprise me. " World opinion, we don't need no stinking world opinion. "

The danger to Thailand is that it fails to plan to taylor itself to the up and coming ASEAN market. If it doesn't plan, then it risks losing skilled and semi-skilled workers to higher wages abroad and becoming an importer of cheaper products from it's neighbours (key agricultural products excepted)

Many inteesting quotes. 45 years ago, when Sinagpore was a backwater port and Thailand was the Big Dog in Southern Asia, the Thai Government Administrators decided to keep Thailand backward. After all, how can a person have servants if they want a living wage..??

The end result is that nothing was done for the future of the country and the results are to be found everywhere; Flooding in Bangkok, because no one would plan for the obvious, Prostitution, because the people are held down and not allowed to climb. After all, shouldn't a gentleman have many girlfriends..??

If Thailand had fully opened it's doors to foreign investment in the 1960's the country would be the new Japan or Taiwan, but the decision went against improvement and Thailand has slid out of 1st place to 4th place and will be at the bottom soon..

Yes, there is much development, because an economic flood can be slowed, but not stopped. Which means Thailand will join the rest of the world, but not as a powerful nation - as just another overgrown 3rd world country...

The biggest opportunity in the history of Thailand was thrown away 40 years ago...

Edited by Scott
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Thailands strength has always been the weakness of its neighbours. Once they all start developing, lazy Thailand will be left behind.Burma has

hundredsof magnificent little islands presumably far more pristine than over commercialised Phuket. Great for eco tourism.

Laos is coming up albeit slowly and Cambodia should be ready to rejoin the human race within 10 years.

Biggest problem in Thailand is the country is owned by the top 100 or so richest Thai and Chinese Thai families. They want to keep the status quo. Tobacco monopoly, alcohol /beverages monopoly, pseudo monopolies created by shutting out competition using huge import duties and appalling corruption at the docks and airports. Crappy locally produced appliances and cars, foreign reserves created through massive prostitution industry and impoverished Issan wife exports to England,Germany,Sweden, Switzerland, Korea, Australia, USA. Insane foreign ownership laws and regs, restrictive and expensive immigration regs,.

Thailand is their own private club, so 60 million Thai's and foreigners arent invited.

The government refuses to take the English language seriously so they will suffer severely long term. Thais are not wanted because they cant speak English.

This country has always been incredibly difficult for outsiders to conduct business .

Better options are popping up.

Thai's will just shrug their shoulders because they dont care. Pretty girl PM Yingluck will head off to Milan to buy the latest LV handbag for 150,000 b.Nothing will ever change here.

Absolutely agree
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Thailand was it its top, regionally speaking, in 2005.

At this time, we could imagine Bangkok to compete with Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong. It was Thaksin obsession, maybe for his own ego, not for the good sake of Thailand. He forgot to watch what was happening home and to follow simple rules of common sense. He felt.

2006 - 2011, the army - yellow - Dem's gave up the foreign policy to focus only on interior struggles. Thailand was ridiculous. And even worst they tried to incite a full war with Cambodia. It was the Thai suicide.

The current PM lacks probably a long term view about the foreign policy but, at least, if she does not make the same childish mistakes than her predecessor, Thailand, little by little, could regain its rank. If she has time... It, eventually, depends on the army - yellow - Dem's to allow her to work.

I agree with you, from personal experience.

In 2005, for various reasons, a number of international companies were (strongly !) considering Bangkok as a regional centre for their SE Asia operation.

Then came the coup. These international companies opted for a wait and see attitude. Then came the occupation of the international airport. It was the straw that broke the camel back. If a country can't assure international communication, this country has no place on an international map. And I pass on the various "person in charge" attitude at the time, both in the army and in the democrat camp. To appoint a PAD leader as foreign minister was akin to spit in the face of the international community.

Now the Shinawatra camp and their associates are trying to repair the damages done but it's going to take sometime for the foreign business community to forget what happened during the past few years.

Seems you are forgetting some very major issues, such a the GFC!. Also what about the 1.4 trillion baht debt from the 97 crash thats still being kicked down the road. Thaskin was lucky to be in control during the greatest finacial period ever and was out by the time it crashed. It was his rampant corruption that spawned the yellow shirts and his stalling of the election that caused the coup. His ineptitude as a politician is only exceeded by his incompetence as a businessman. He is the reason Thailand is faultering.

I really don't understand what you're talking about. What the relevance with the subject ?

The main concern for businesses is : is the government business friendly. Since the coup until the July election, the answer was no. The PAD recently said they will continue the fight against the domination of capitalism over the political system. How do you thing that sounds to the ears of the people in charge of international companies ?

Why do you think was able to come back so strong ? Just because he has the support of the "uneducated poors" ? Of course no. But because he has the support of big business. Thaksin makes sense to them. He also makes sense to all the small entrepreneurs, the young people who don't belong to the elite and just come back from studying abroad with high hopes for a modern Thailand. Actually all the people who matter to build a strong Thailand.

Edited by JurgenG
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After all, shouldn't a gentleman have many girlfriends.

I think the answer to that is obvious. :D

but beyond that, prostitution has got more to do with laziness and greed than not being able to climb. there's plenty of dough to be made in thailand. prostitution is the easy path.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Edited by happysanook
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Thai and Thailand have no fear.

We are number 1 in ASEAN.

Number 2 in ASIA, after Japan.

We have plenty of rice in our field, and much fish in our water.

And above all, we have a great king, to much envy of all other countires in the whole universe.

You forget the endless influx of "silly old men" who are happy to part with their hard earned money for a few hours/days/weeks of companionship with poor, uneducated, lazy, useless local lasses - just imagine how much money these blokes bring into this country every year. They practically financed all of the pick-ups, house etc. in Isaan.

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*Deleted quote edited out*

sparbox2, you really need to stop whatever it is you are smoking, drinking or sticking into your veins and come back to the real world. But let's look at your latest inane comment for a minute.

Vietnamese father is on a motorbike, wearing a helmet, has an accident, and thanks to the helmet he survives, much to the joy of his family.

"Brave Thai" father is on a motorbike, NOT wearng a helmet, has an accident and dies, or requires long term medical treatment, thereby becoming a burden to the family he can no longer take care of. And if he dies, which is usually the case, he leaves behind a wife and children who now have no husband/father to provide for them.

And as for the "brave warrior decent", get real! If you bother to read REAL Thai history, and not the myths they teach in Thai schools, the only people the Thai have ever really fought and defeated were the Burmese. And if they are such "brave warriors", why did they meekly let the Japanese simply walk in and take over during WW II without putting up even a token resistance.

During the Thai - Lao War, Thai troops took over and occupied a small city in Lao. That night it only took a few dozen Lao troops to drive out the entire Thai Company and reclaim the city.

No, Thai not wearing helmets has nothing to do with "brave warrior class", and everything to do with stupdiity.

I'm pretty sure he's/she's just being sarcastic...

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Thailand has to take their lumps in the market place just like everyone else. A friend of mine calls Thailand the Rip Van Winkle country..They have been sleeping while the countries around them have been moving forward. Maintaining the status quo has been their Achille's Heal.

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....but no mention of the potential mineral wealth that is being eyed by outside interests?

All this is a beat up of the current Government; the Nation does not explain why. All it attracts is the same all bods that have no say in Thai politics but want to get notice for radical views.

The discussion on what Burma has to offer would offer more

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Thailand has to take their lumps in the market place just like everyone else. A friend of mine calls Thailand the Rip Van Winkle country..They have been sleeping while the countries around them have been moving forward. Maintaining the status quo has been their Achille's Heal.

Lumpy rice is not good.

Edited by wxyz
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Thai and Thailand have no fear.

We are number 1 in ASEAN.

Number 2 in ASIA, after Japan.

We have plenty of rice in our field, and much fish in our water.

And above all, we have a great king, to much envy of all other countires in the whole universe.

You forget the endless influx of "silly old men" who are happy to part with their hard earned money for a few hours/days/weeks of companionship with poor, uneducated, lazy, useless local lasses - just imagine how much money these blokes bring into this country every year. They practically financed all of the pick-ups, house etc. in Isaan.

About 4 billion dollars is the best guess.

http://www.sexwork.com/Thailand/traditiions.html

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Been up to the border, had a look over the other side, yes just same same, nothing to see, Thailand still centre of the known universe, one day we will rule the world, teach them how to build super highways, drive like gods, the true meaning of incinerating everything, how to run a world class business etc etc., I just cannot understand why our neighbours dont come to see how things are really done, they must be a bit like Isaan was 20 years ago, asleep.

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Economic powerhouses of Asia (excluding Japan) :

- China

- Hong Kong

- Taiwan

- Singapore

- South Korea

Economic backwaters :

- Thailand,

- Phillipines

- Malaysia

- Indonesia

Can anyone see the similarities / differences?

I think it would be better if you said "Economic backwaters" ( excluding Thailand ) looks better dont you think!
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Thailand won't make any changes-- for as long as they can sit in their own country doing things their way then they don't really care about the rest of the world. They are taught that their country is the best country in the world and the way they do things is both different and superior-- 'Thai Wisdom'. The majority of them believe this and the elite is quite happy to perpetuate this view as it serves their interests. Lets hope that this beautiful country of Thailand can find new ways to adapt that will allow it to see itself as it is generally perceived by most objective observers.

Agree.

Also (IMHO) U.S. keeping Thailand as zone of interests & control -Siamese Bay-South China See-(China , Russia)at the same time it's good & bad for country...

& Does anybody noticed the beauty of Anti Money Laundry Department building in BKK laugh.pngbiggrin.pngwink.png ...

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Few people remember that three decades ago the Philippines was the most prosperous nation in SE Asia second only to Japan. In fact the elite there were so arrogant they started burning foreign investors and became increasingly monopolistic/protectionist. In their business practices. The net result was that a few corrupt failed administrations later all the investment bailed to Ne Asia and stable nations like Singapore. Thailand won't collapse economically but just like the Phil the cost of doing business here has become a gamble. It looks good on paper but a single stroke of a pen can erase entire investments. DTAC is an example of how Thai business monopolies collude to rob foreign enterprise similar to what happened in the Phil decades ago.

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wait and see if nothing is done to combat the floods in the industrial area of ayuthaya the factories will pack up and go,thus putting thousands out of work.try telling the gov.prevention is better than cure.the thai way is let it happen first.

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i'm not sure what the hubbub is about here. if anything, thailand is getting too big for it's britches as it is. everywhere i look i see expansion, renovation, things transforming and becoming increasingly modern in front of my eyes. even in the little town i live in, the rate of change is insane.

True but the political environment is like last year clothes on a fast growing teenager, hampering the movements, blocking the growth.

Some want to isolate Thailand from the rest of the world through muddy "self sufficiency" policies. History taught us, Japan and China spring to mind, that isolation doesn't work.

In a fast changing world Thailand lost 6 years, really lost because nothing constructive happened during the past 6 years, dreaming about a mythical Thailand that never really existed.

Yesteryear Thailand is over, gone for ever. It's time people realize that or we will take the the same path as the Philippines. In the 70's the Philippines was one of the most developed nation in SE Asia, now it is at the bottom. Is that the future people want for Thailand ?

And why did the Philippines stagnate, a power hungry leader, Marcos who sold and stole the country blind. Similar to someone trying to and controlling Thailand from Dubai. After they kicked marcos out some really dumb decisions were made that have only made the situation worse. Corruption in the Philippines worse than in Thailand.

What nonsense,the guy in dubai tried to change things,why do you think he had to go?He tried to take power from establishment,from khun hiso in bkk,from army,those are the ones who hijack thailand,as long they are in power,thailand can't move on

Get a grip, the only thing Big T tried to do was own the country megamanic is defined by a photo of Big T in the dictionary
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Thailands strength has always been the weakness of its neighbours. Once they all start developing, lazy Thailand will be left behind.Burma has

hundredsof magnificent little islands presumably far more pristine than over commercialised Phuket. Great for eco tourism.

Laos is coming up albeit slowly and Cambodia should be ready to rejoin the human race within 10 years.

Biggest problem in Thailand is the country is owned by the top 100 or so richest Thai and Chinese Thai families. They want to keep the status quo. Tobacco monopoly, alcohol /beverages monopoly, pseudo monopolies created by shutting out competition using huge import duties and appalling corruption at the docks and airports. Crappy locally produced appliances and cars, foreign reserves created through massive prostitution industry and impoverished Issan wife exports to England,Germany,Sweden, Switzerland, Korea, Australia, USA. Insane foreign ownership laws and regs, restrictive and expensive immigration regs,.

Thailand is their own private club, so 60 million Thai's and foreigners arent invited.

The government refuses to take the English language seriously so they will suffer severely long term. Thais are not wanted because they cant speak English.

This country has always been incredibly difficult for outsiders to conduct business .

Better options are popping up.

Thai's will just shrug their shoulders because they dont care. Pretty girl PM Yingluck will head off to Milan to buy the latest LV handbag for 150,000 b.Nothing will ever change here.

Sorry to say............. I think you are absolutely correct. Thailand will continue to be the private club for 100 families - no more, no less. Likely to be the place where all the others come to "play". The biggest single issue is the lack of good English speakers. It is so much easier in most of the other ASEAN countries already - they are more business friendly, foreigner friendly, investment friendly etc. Thailand will continue it's sleepy isolationist type thinking until it's all too late.

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Thailands strength has always been the weakness of its neighbours. Once they all start developing, lazy Thailand will be left behind.Burma has

hundredsof magnificent little islands presumably far more pristine than over commercialised Phuket. Great for eco tourism.

Laos is coming up albeit slowly and Cambodia should be ready to rejoin the human race within 10 years.

Biggest problem in Thailand is the country is owned by the top 100 or so richest Thai and Chinese Thai families. They want to keep the status quo. Tobacco monopoly, alcohol /beverages monopoly, pseudo monopolies created by shutting out competition using huge import duties and appalling corruption at the docks and airports. Crappy locally produced appliances and cars, foreign reserves created through massive prostitution industry and impoverished Issan wife exports to England,Germany,Sweden, Switzerland, Korea, Australia, USA. Insane foreign ownership laws and regs, restrictive and expensive immigration regs,.

Thailand is their own private club, so 60 million Thai's and foreigners arent invited.

The government refuses to take the English language seriously so they will suffer severely long term. Thais are not wanted because they cant speak English.

This country has always been incredibly difficult for outsiders to conduct business .

Better options are popping up.

Thai's will just shrug their shoulders because they dont care. Pretty girl PM Yingluck will head off to Milan to buy the latest LV handbag for 150,000 b.Nothing will ever change here.

Sorry to say............. I think you are absolutely correct. Thailand will continue to be the private club for 100 families - no more, no less. Likely to be the place where all the others come to "play". The biggest single issue is the lack of good English speakers. It is so much easier in most of the other ASEAN countries already - they are more business friendly, foreigner friendly, investment friendly etc. Thailand will continue it's sleepy isolationist type thinking until it's all too late.

100 families? I'd say it's less than 10 that own the majority of Thailand with everyone else on the bottom getting crumbs. If you look at the big corporate names that own everything (ie. CP) they own large subsidiaries everywhere in Thailand.

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