Chalerm Seeks Speedy Killing Of Drug Convicts

[nurofiend]

talk about not knowing what you're on about!

drugs would be more expensive he says

he'll be allowed smoke crack in work he says, what just like you're allowed to drink a bottle of whiskey is it?

yet to see any hint of a solid argument in this thread.

[RogueExpat]

This is absolutley absurd.

Chalerm is trying to copy China's model, where getting it wrong five times in a hundred is acceptable to the government.

At the end of the day Chalerm, and co. have absolutley no interest in actually dealing with the national drug problem, other than providing front page news to divert public attention from other dodgy deals going on, and clearing competetition driving market price up so it is easier to control and collect revenues.

Thsi government does not give a FF about the individual, or the Thai people in general.

[Nisa]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

[khaowong1]

Someone please get Chalerm out of office, he is worse than Thaksin.

Anyone wanting to expedite the death of another human is pure evil.

Theres no way this man can call himself a Buddhist. And please, I am not condoning the selling of drugs or drug use. All I'm saying is, the first precept in all Buddhist ceremony's is: To abstain from taking a life or harming any living creature. If he is a Buddhist, he would know that.

[Fantastic5]

To bad that same law does not apply to cop killers. Must be nice to take the high moral ground while being balls deep in s**t.

Ooo he wouldn't want that! Then his violent rapeing s@%'s wouldn't be able to go around killing people freely and he would be 1 less s@n, so no, god for bid they kill violent murderer, pimps, human traffickers, gang bosses, the people that put these criminal activities together, we couldn't have that, we will just execute insolent people who are easy to frame and ones who have very little choice in or chance.

[Fantastic5]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

Its true in a lot of country's it's more cost affective to give them life, there has been cases in some of the states in the USA when the state have demanded life in prison as the death sentence would be to costly.

But, you have to take into consideration, most of that cost goes on appeals appeals and that will not be a issue with this amendment, but that doesn't mean it's right. Im no advocate of the death penalty, infact I don't think it's used i enough, but saying that, I believe in fairness, if it's going to be used for pore people I should be used for rich people, why don't drug runners get a descent appeal proses put pedafile merder does, are they afraid they might find out who is behind the operation? I think pedafiles and repasts, gang lords, pochers, human traffickers should get the death penalty, we don't need them; and people who are victims of cercomstances need educating, we need the get to the ruet of the problem and cut of the head of the dragon. If a drug mule will help with getting to the top, that should be clemency.

[Fantastic5]

There have been cases where people have held goods for people only to find out it contains somthing the bearer was not aware of, the cort have accepted this as the case but still handed the sentence of death down, that's very rong..people can say "well they should've known what they had n there posestion thus they are just as guilty" infact thats what the judge said just before he handed down the sentence, but in most cases if that was your brother son or even nephew I'm prity shore your words would be different.

Some people are just plane stupid or ignorant!

[Nisa]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

Its true in a lot of country's it's more cost affective to give them life, there has been cases in some of the states in the USA when the state have demanded life in prison as the death sentence would be to costly.

But, you have to take into consideration, most of that cost goes on appeals appeals and that will not be a issue with this amendment, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Actually, the appeals process will still go on but they are just eliminating waiting for a response for a royal pardon which I don't believe involves any significant cost.

But since the Royal Pardon and Royal commutations of sentence is very common and now much a part of the Thai justice system it really is insane imo to eliminate it on only cases where there is such final sentencing that cannot ever be remedied if a mistake was made or justice is not being served.

I highly doubt this will ever become law and it is simply political grand standing by a politician trying to appease the hang-em-high crowd who love tough talk and actions until they are on the other side of it.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Nisa

[Fantastic5]

I hope it doesn't go through, I would be very ashamed if it does. I have been proud that although we have the death penalty we don't seem to thrive of off exercuting every individual we can find a excuse to no matter what they're involvement, like say, Singapore.

The appeals proses over hear is not nearly as long as it is in the USA and I can only imagine it will be shortened if this proposal where to go through.

[Thaddeus]

Has anyone looked up how many times the death penalty has gone to conclusion in Thailand since, oh, pick a random year, 2003.

[Reasonableman]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

The cost of killing someone is negligible. The cost of sustaining their lives for decades at public expense is huge. On what basis do you make that assumption, or are you just doing some flip trolling?

BTW, your ruler is probably metric, so change those inches to millimeters.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Nisa]

Has anyone looked up how many times the death penalty has gone to conclusion in Thailand since, oh, pick a random year, 2003.

If I recall correctly since 2003 .. about 3 times ... I do remember they carried out the first execution in 6-years back in 2009.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

The cost of killing someone is negligible. The cost of sustaining their lives for decades at public expense is huge. On what basis do you make that assumption, or are you just doing some flip trolling?

BTW, your ruler is probably metric, so change those inches to millimeters.

On facts - nothing is assumed except for your comments. Do a bit of research, the costs and facts are easily found doing a Google search. Start with this search ... cost of death penalty vs. life without parole

Edited February 16, 2012 by Nisa

[Roadman]

Drug dealers get the death penalty (as perhaps they should) but those who should be on trial for acts of treason against Thailand like Thaksin and Jataporn can be fully involved in the governance of the country. Truely amazing Thailand.

[smedly]

from what I'm reading in this article it seems to me that catching the "big players" as many have mentioned here has already been done, the big players are already locked up and convicted but running the organisation from jail, there have been a couple of news articles on this already where they have mentioned special prisons for convicted drug dealers where phones are not available and no visitors, it seems the route of the problem is these king pins can still run their organisations from jail.

[Nisa]

from what I'm reading in this article it seems to me that catching the "big players" as many have mentioned here has already been done, the big players are already locked up and convicted but running the organisation from jail, there have been a couple of news articles on this already where they have mentioned special prisons for convicted drug dealers where phones are not available and no visitors, it seems the route of the problem is these king pins can still run their organisations from jail.

I can't help but question this .. not you but the media and authorities assertions they are running things from behind bars while on death row. Why would anybody listen to them and continue to give them huge chunks of cash they could be pocketing themselves? And how does somebody actually run an organization when they have such limited communication ability with the outside world? But I can tell you, it has always been convenient for the mafia to make believe the head of the family and person calling the shots is already in jail. Kind of takes the heat off the real leader.

If the problem is they illegally have cell phones or are working with guards it seems a bit odd to decide the solution is to kill them instead of addressing a corrupt prison guard system.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Nisa

[MILT]

and this came from Thaksin i take it !

you cant convict a man/women of a crime with a half hearted investigation and then kill them within 60 days, how many innocent people set up will lose thier lives?

If a person is found with vast amounts of Yabba/Ice in their possession then why not a speedy execution ?

- Ever heard of the right to equal application of the law, to all citizens?

- Do you remember the thousands of times the pt / udd / reds /red leaders repeated their warcry during the riots last year and in the run up to the last elections: quality democracy and equal application of the law for all Thais?

- Ever heard of police planting drugs on people?

- Ever heard that during the paymasters war on drugs and before, and since, not one drug lord, not one drug king pin. not one politician, not one senior policeman, not one senior military man has ever been charged with drug related offences let alone been convicted, let alone served time in jail, let alone been executed?

I am sure that if you researched you will find many police have been charged in one capacity or another with drug charges. Drug lords and Drug kingpin mean the same thing. Politicians and military you are right about that. Maybe it will happen under Charlems watch? One never know's

[DLock]

talk about not knowing what you're on about!

drugs would be more expensive he says

he'll be allowed smoke crack in work he says, what just like you're allowed to drink a bottle of whiskey is it?

yet to see any hint of a solid argument in this thread.

They'll be cheaper?

Outstanding.

Meth is so much better than tequila.

[Fantastic5]

State sanctioned killing is wrong no matter the crime or political leaning of the regime.

I strongly hope Thailand will join the majority of the world when the UN next votes for the moratorium of the death penalty. I hope to live long enough to see the day when this map turn green. http://en.wikipedia....orium_votes.svg

Maybe you're right. The guy that rapes your wife in front of your kids, then strangles them all is deserving of your tax dollars to care for him for 50 years until he dies naturally.

Not sure about Thailand but in most places the cost to execute somebody far exceeds the cost of housing them the rest of their life. As for punishment, I take it you would prefer a brief punishment that last seconds and is over with quickly for the person who rapes your wife in front of your kids and then kills them all. 50 years in prison vs. a few seconds of possible pain then to forever be without worry.

The cost of killing someone is negligible. The cost of sustaining their lives for decades at public expense is huge. On what basis do you make that assumption, or are you just doing some flip trolling?

BTW, your ruler is probably metric, so change those inches to millimeters.

Have you done your research to be doubting Nisa? If so do it again this time do it in detail with some reputible sources.

I'm not liberal, I generally disagree with a lot of there policies, with me being quite conservative, but I love to hear someone's argument or opinion from a educated side instead of mere ramblings and blunts speculations.

[waza]

Wasa on cleaner drugs; again, agree fully with that. Drugs on the street can be cut up to 90% by the time it gets to the user. Problem here is that if it was legalized, the potential user needs to be fully aware of the dosage he will be taken.........

But the biggest problem I have is the scale. Someone in an earlier post on this thread made a comment (not proven) that America has at the minute 20 million children using crystal meth on a daily basis (I keep referring to crystal meth and am aware there are many other drugs out there). I know you have to begin somewhere, but how do you address numbers like this?

chrisinth

The point I am making is all these drugs, marijuana, methamphetamines, opiods, cocaine ect are all legal if procured through the health care system. I was the one who made the comment that in the US there are 25 million children on prescribed crystal meth, that is they are prescribed and supplied with the drug by the health care system. I find it hypocrytical that on one hand our taxes are used to subsidise the heath care system that provides these drugs, then on the other hand a greater amount of our taxes are used to police, arrest and punish the blackmarket drug system.

Then when you consider the numbers in the US, "According to the latest surveys, cited by the DEA themselves, there are about 12.7 million people who have used some illegal drug in the last month and perhaps 30 to 40 million who have used some illegal drug within the last year." http://druglibrary.o...y/basicfax2.htm

The National Institutes of Health estimates that nearly 20 percent of people in the United States have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons. http://www.prescript...drug-abuse.org/ , You realise that this is not a legal issue or a health issue its a financial issue, all about control of the profits.

Edited February 16, 2012 by waza

[chrisinth]

Nurofiend & Wasa on the point of employing someone addicted to say, meths; agree on both points you made. The problem I have with this is if it is legalized and people are free to use, what would happen if the user goes into flashback while employed using machinery or in a position that could be life threatening for others.

flashback???? I think you have been reading too much false drug propaganda.

@ Nisa @ Nurofiend

Guys, I respect your points on the issues of legalization, all of which have been valid. I still have my doubts over certain aspects of it, but I think we have veered off topic a bit with this.

As stated earlier, I would love to see everyone enjoying themselves in a safe environment, doing what they want to do, but I cannot see this happening, even if approved for at least 5 years. After the paperwork has been sorted and help systems set up there would be the incredible task of changing peoples habits and still a need (in the initial stages anyway) to stem the illegal drugs in the pipelines. The drug cartels won't take it lying down and not everybody will trust government schemes.

Make it safer, I'll drink to that!

[chrisinth]

Wasa on cleaner drugs; again, agree fully with that. Drugs on the street can be cut up to 90% by the time it gets to the user. Problem here is that if it was legalized, the potential user needs to be fully aware of the dosage he will be taken.........

But the biggest problem I have is the scale. Someone in an earlier post on this thread made a comment (not proven) that America has at the minute 20 million children using crystal meth on a daily basis (I keep referring to crystal meth and am aware there are many other drugs out there). I know you have to begin somewhere, but how do you address numbers like this?

chrisinth

The point I am making is all these drugs, marijuana, methamphetamines, opiods, cocaine ect are all legal if procured through the health care system. I was the one who made the comment that in the US there are 25 million children on prescribed crystal meth, that is they are prescribed and supplied with the drug by the health care system. I find it hypocrytical that on one hand our taxes are used to subsidise the heath care system that provides these drugs, then on the other hand a greater amount of our taxes are used to police, arrest and punish the blackmarket drug system.

Then when you consider the numbers in the US, "According to the latest surveys, cited by the DEA themselves, there are about 12.7 million people who have used some illegal drug in the last month and perhaps 30 to 40 million who have used some illegal drug within the last year." http://druglibrary.o...y/basicfax2.htm

The National Institutes of Health estimates that nearly 20 percent of people in the United States have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons. http://www.prescript...drug-abuse.org/ , You realise that this is not a legal issue or a health issue its a financial issue, all about control of the profits.

Wasa, point taken, especially on the clean drugs. And yes, I also see it as hypocrytical with legal production v enforcement. I have answered (forgot to include you) in post #171 to Nisa & Nurofiend.

Conceding to most, but still with doubts.

[bigbamboo]

I wonder what will happen to the Iranian drug smugglers. Lucky they weren't terrorists or they really would be in trouble.

Edited February 16, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Nisa]

Wasa on cleaner drugs; again, agree fully with that. Drugs on the street can be cut up to 90% by the time it gets to the user. Problem here is that if it was legalized, the potential user needs to be fully aware of the dosage he will be taken.........

But the biggest problem I have is the scale. Someone in an earlier post on this thread made a comment (not proven) that America has at the minute 20 million children using crystal meth on a daily basis (I keep referring to crystal meth and am aware there are many other drugs out there). I know you have to begin somewhere, but how do you address numbers like this?

chrisinth

The point I am making is all these drugs, marijuana, methamphetamines, opiods, cocaine ect are all legal if procured through the health care system. I was the one who made the comment that in the US there are 25 million children on prescribed crystal meth, that is they are prescribed and supplied with the drug by the health care system. I find it hypocrytical that on one hand our taxes are used to subsidise the heath care system that provides these drugs, then on the other hand a greater amount of our taxes are used to police, arrest and punish the blackmarket drug system.

Then when you consider the numbers in the US, "According to the latest surveys, cited by the DEA themselves, there are about 12.7 million people who have used some illegal drug in the last month and perhaps 30 to 40 million who have used some illegal drug within the last year." http://druglibrary.o...y/basicfax2.htm

The National Institutes of Health estimates that nearly 20 percent of people in the United States have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons. http://www.prescript...drug-abuse.org/ , You realise that this is not a legal issue or a health issue its a financial issue, all about control of the profits.

Wasa, point taken, especially on the clean drugs. And yes, I also see it as hypocrytical with legal production v enforcement. I have answered (forgot to include you) in post #171 to Nisa & Nurofiend.

Conceding to most, but still with doubts.

IMO, is that there is no good answer but controlled legalization seems to be the best. Stop making this a bad boy type thing for kids to want to get into but rather have it be seen as an illness that is either managed or treated when it comes to the life destroying and addictive drugs. As for marijuana ... simply control it like booze .. again this is just my my opinion.

Give people their crack and heroin at the clinic and let them know they can get help while they are there. Bottom line is if a crack or heroin addict has a choice of free dope vs. having to buy it and possibly commit a crime to get the money and got to jail where they will be without their drugs ... they are going to pick going to the clinic and hearing somebody out for a few minutes to get their high.

And for real .. people strung out on drugs don't want to be there but they feel they have no power or choice to stop. Sure getting to the point of being strung out can be fun but once you cross the line it is no fun at all. Let them go to the clinic every day and see those strung out but at the same time know that they don't have to get to that point and also let those who have crossed the line know there is hope and help available.

I am not sure I buy into the whole addiction is a disease thing but I don't have any problem treating it as one as it seems nobody is immune to becoming an addict but some are certainly more prone .. i think they even have suggested they have found an addiction gene which greatly increases your chance of becoming an addict.

As for the dealers ... some of them are just hardcore murdering thugs who are going to be criminals with or without drugs. However, there are drug dealers who are mellow, don't hurt anyone and simply supply a substance adults are willing to buy. Yes, deal with them for breaking the law but killing them??? A bit extreme in my book.

[tlansford]

capital punishment is a bad idea - regardless of the crime.

As for drug offenses, many have pointed out, correctly, that there is no good evidence suggesting that capital punishment reduces drug crimes or drug use. On the other hand, there are many countries with progressive policies which have been shown to be effective.

[tlansford]

Wasa on cleaner drugs; again, agree fully with that. Drugs on the street can be cut up to 90% by the time it gets to the user. Problem here is that if it was legalized, the potential user needs to be fully aware of the dosage he will be taken.........

But the biggest problem I have is the scale. Someone in an earlier post on this thread made a comment (not proven) that America has at the minute 20 million children using crystal meth on a daily basis (I keep referring to crystal meth and am aware there are many other drugs out there). I know you have to begin somewhere, but how do you address numbers like this?

chrisinth

The point I am making is all these drugs, marijuana, methamphetamines, opiods, cocaine ect are all legal if procured through the health care system. I was the one who made the comment that in the US there are 25 million children on prescribed crystal meth, that is they are prescribed and supplied with the drug by the health care system. I find it hypocrytical that on one hand our taxes are used to subsidise the heath care system that provides these drugs, then on the other hand a greater amount of our taxes are used to police, arrest and punish the blackmarket drug system.

Then when you consider the numbers in the US, "According to the latest surveys, cited by the DEA themselves, there are about 12.7 million people who have used some illegal drug in the last month and perhaps 30 to 40 million who have used some illegal drug within the last year." http://druglibrary.o...y/basicfax2.htm

The National Institutes of Health estimates that nearly 20 percent of people in the United States have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons. http://www.prescript...drug-abuse.org/ , You realise that this is not a legal issue or a health issue its a financial issue, all about control of the profits.

Wasa, point taken, especially on the clean drugs. And yes, I also see it as hypocrytical with legal production v enforcement. I have answered (forgot to include you) in post #171 to Nisa & Nurofiend.

Conceding to most, but still with doubts.

IMO, is that there is no good answer but controlled legalization seems to be the best. Stop making this a bad boy type thing for kids to want to get into but rather have it be seen as an illness that is either managed or treated when it comes to the life destroying and addictive drugs. As for marijuana ... simply control it like booze .. again this is just my my opinion.

Give people their crack and heroin at the clinic and let them know they can get help while they are there. Bottom line is if a crack or heroin addict has a choice of free dope vs. having to buy it and possibly commit a crime to get the money and got to jail where they will be without their drugs ... they are going to pick going to the clinic and hearing somebody out for a few minutes to get their high.

And for real .. people strung out on drugs don't want to be there but they feel they have no power or choice to stop. Sure getting to the point of being strung out can be fun but once you cross the line it is no fun at all. Let them go to the clinic every day and see those strung out but at the same time know that they don't have to get to that point and also let those who have crossed the line know there is hope and help available.

I am not sure I buy into the whole addiction is a disease thing but I don't have any problem treating it as one as it seems nobody is immune to becoming an addict but some are certainly more prone .. i think they even have suggested they have found an addiction gene which greatly increases your chance of becoming an addict.

As for the dealers ... some of them are just hardcore murdering thugs who are going to be criminals with or without drugs. However, there are drug dealers who are mellow, don't hurt anyone and simply supply a substance adults are willing to buy. Yes, deal with them for breaking the law but killing them??? A bit extreme in my book.

"And for real .. people strung out on drugs don't want to be there but they feel they have no power or choice to stop."

Drugs are more powerful than people. Alcohol included. Once people get to a certain point, it is not IMO even that they "feel" that they have no power or choice to stop, but even when they really want to stop, they often don't have the power necessary to do it. People in this situation need a lot of help.

[nurofiend]

talk about not knowing what you're on about!

drugs would be more expensive he says

he'll be allowed smoke crack in work he says, what just like you're allowed to drink a bottle of whiskey is it?

yet to see any hint of a solid argument in this thread.

They'll be cheaper?

Outstanding.

Meth is so much better than tequila.

cheaper drugs would equal substantially less crime, so yeah, outstanding.

meth is better than tequila is it? i don't know, i haven't tried it myself.

[nurofiend]

Nurofiend & Wasa on the point of employing someone addicted to say, meths; agree on both points you made. The problem I have with this is if it is legalized and people are free to use, what would happen if the user goes into flashback while employed using machinery or in a position that could be life threatening for others.

flashback???? I think you have been reading too much false drug propaganda.

@ Nisa @ Nurofiend

Guys, I respect your points on the issues of legalization, all of which have been valid. I still have my doubts over certain aspects of it, but I think we have veered off topic a bit with this.

As stated earlier, I would love to see everyone enjoying themselves in a safe environment, doing what they want to do, but I cannot see this happening, even if approved for at least 5 years. After the paperwork has been sorted and help systems set up there would be the incredible task of changing peoples habits and still a need (in the initial stages anyway) to stem the illegal drugs in the pipelines. The drug cartels won't take it lying down and not everybody will trust government schemes.

Make it safer, I'll drink to that!

cool, just to point one more thing out. my stance on this isn't based around people having a good time.

it's based on harm reduction and how it would benefit society in many ways.

[Nisa]

Wasa on cleaner drugs; again, agree fully with that. Drugs on the street can be cut up to 90% by the time it gets to the user. Problem here is that if it was legalized, the potential user needs to be fully aware of the dosage he will be taken.........

But the biggest problem I have is the scale. Someone in an earlier post on this thread made a comment (not proven) that America has at the minute 20 million children using crystal meth on a daily basis (I keep referring to crystal meth and am aware there are many other drugs out there). I know you have to begin somewhere, but how do you address numbers like this?

chrisinth

The point I am making is all these drugs, marijuana, methamphetamines, opiods, cocaine ect are all legal if procured through the health care system. I was the one who made the comment that in the US there are 25 million children on prescribed crystal meth, that is they are prescribed and supplied with the drug by the health care system. I find it hypocrytical that on one hand our taxes are used to subsidise the heath care system that provides these drugs, then on the other hand a greater amount of our taxes are used to police, arrest and punish the blackmarket drug system.

Then when you consider the numbers in the US, "According to the latest surveys, cited by the DEA themselves, there are about 12.7 million people who have used some illegal drug in the last month and perhaps 30 to 40 million who have used some illegal drug within the last year." http://druglibrary.o...y/basicfax2.htm

The National Institutes of Health estimates that nearly 20 percent of people in the United States have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons. http://www.prescript...drug-abuse.org/ , You realise that this is not a legal issue or a health issue its a financial issue, all about control of the profits.

Wasa, point taken, especially on the clean drugs. And yes, I also see it as hypocrytical with legal production v enforcement. I have answered (forgot to include you) in post #171 to Nisa & Nurofiend.

Conceding to most, but still with doubts.

IMO, is that there is no good answer but controlled legalization seems to be the best. Stop making this a bad boy type thing for kids to want to get into but rather have it be seen as an illness that is either managed or treated when it comes to the life destroying and addictive drugs. As for marijuana ... simply control it like booze .. again this is just my my opinion.

Give people their crack and heroin at the clinic and let them know they can get help while they are there. Bottom line is if a crack or heroin addict has a choice of free dope vs. having to buy it and possibly commit a crime to get the money and got to jail where they will be without their drugs ... they are going to pick going to the clinic and hearing somebody out for a few minutes to get their high.

And for real .. people strung out on drugs don't want to be there but they feel they have no power or choice to stop. Sure getting to the point of being strung out can be fun but once you cross the line it is no fun at all. Let them go to the clinic every day and see those strung out but at the same time know that they don't have to get to that point and also let those who have crossed the line know there is hope and help available.

I am not sure I buy into the whole addiction is a disease thing but I don't have any problem treating it as one as it seems nobody is immune to becoming an addict but some are certainly more prone .. i think they even have suggested they have found an addiction gene which greatly increases your chance of becoming an addict.

As for the dealers ... some of them are just hardcore murdering thugs who are going to be criminals with or without drugs. However, there are drug dealers who are mellow, don't hurt anyone and simply supply a substance adults are willing to buy. Yes, deal with them for breaking the law but killing them??? A bit extreme in my book.

"And for real .. people strung out on drugs don't want to be there but they feel they have no power or choice to stop."

Drugs are more powerful than people. Alcohol included. Once people get to a certain point, it is not IMO even that they "feel" that they have no power or choice to stop, but even when they really want to stop, they often don't have the power necessary to do it. People in this situation need a lot of help.

In AA and NA, which are 12 step programs, the first step is admitting your are powerless over your addiction.

Do they even have AA and NA in Thailand? These are supposedly great programs that people swear by but I think with addicts they first need to detox before the program can really work. Alcohol and Heroin withdrawl can be brutal but there are some things like Crack and Speed where it is more about regaining your sanity which can take a great deal of time.

I once had a doctor at a mental hospital call me about an old friend, who had my contact info, and who got locked up and the doctor wanted to know if they were a speed user because he explained there was really no way for them to know if the persons behavior was a result of prolonged speed use or if they were bipolar or manic depressive. I'm not sure if and how long it takes a person like this to return to normal.

Sadly, I think most all of us have seen the effects of drugs be it ourselves, loved ones or friends. 99% of the time we are helpless to help and it is probably because they actually feel more helpless than us.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Nisa

[philliphn]

For the harm that they do society, and other people. Big drug dealers deserve the punishment of death. Yes, I said punishment, not deterence! For hard drugs the death penalty is appropriate.