New Born Children Nationality?

[Mario2008]

lm a Belgian citizen, my gf is philipino and we both are here in bkk for many years, our son is born 5 months ago , september 10,2011 and we got the thai birthcertificate.....and then it ends.....l cannot get a Belgian passport because l have no adress in Belgium anymore and the Philippine Embasy also cannot provide a passport ......so now l have to go back to my country , rent a room there ,wait till l got registrated their again , wich can take 2 months and in the mean time lm seperated from my family here , cost me alot of money (planes ...deposit for rent , rent , no work there so must take my money from here ) so we are looking for a solution to get my son a passport .......

Please read this:

http://www.diplomatie.be/bangkoknl/default.asp?id=23&mnu=23&ACT=5&content=14

http://www.diplomatie.be/bangkoknl/default.asp?id=23&mnu=23&ACT=5&content=9

and contact the embassy with any questions.

[astral]

At the other end of the time line, I am just about to get my OAP

and the office in the UK was asking for sight of my birth certificate to

verify my age.

I ended up getting a certified copy of my passport from the embassy

and sent that off, but my birth certificate, long lost, would have been easier.

On another occasion I needed my birth certificate when a trust was being wound up

to show exactly who my parents are to claim a share of the trust.

[jaywalker]

I'm from the USA & went thru this a few years ago. My daughter is 6 now. I was working in Kuwait, but was here for my daughter's birth & about 10 days after I had to go back to work. I had to go to the Thai embassy in Kuwait & get a notarized statement that it was OK for my wife to get the baby a Thai passport (makes sense).

The kid was 3 months old & they came to stay with me in Kuwait.

I went to the US Embassy there, to try & get her a US passport. Their eyes got big as saucer plates.......HEAVEN FORBID! They'd never tackled a problem like this before! They said it would take them 6 months to a year to get it done.....They were like tits on a boar-hog.

My next vacation (I'd looked at the US's Thai Embassy website & NOTHING was mentioned about an appointment at the time), I show up at the embassy & am told I need an appointment. Luckily I had 3 weeks & they were able to squeeze me in 2 days before my return to Sandland.

I show up on time along with a screaming 2 year old that was as MISERABLE as I was with the process, of course I have the wife & certified translations of all documents (done by the Thai Embassy in Kuwait -they were REALLY cool folks) there as well.

The B*tch that I had the appointment with was 45 minutes LATE.

Next they start asking all these stupid questions that had nothing to do with the price of eggs in China....Where did you meet your wife? Did you live together before you were married?

They have that thick glass between us & them for a reason, as I could have strangled an elephant by the time I was done.

Oh Yeah....Make sure you have applied for and received a Social Security Number for the child prior to applying for the passport (for USA citizens). They claimed (online) that this was a 6 month process for overseas residents. I had mine shipped to my friend's parents in Miami. It took about 2-3 weeks. He picked it up when he was there on vacation.

Edited February 19, 2012 by jaywalker

[p_brownstone]

The US website states dual nationality is possible but there can be problems arising from something like ... which government is imposing its laws. Say you are a dual citizen of Thailand and the US and you are in Thailand and you do something stupid and get arrested. How are you going to get the US government to help you when the Thai government will say he/she is a Thai citizen. Serious problems could arise for sure.

Does the US Website actually say all that - because it is wrong. There is no doubt about what Country's laws apply if you are a Dual citizen and commit an offence in one of those Counties. The Laws of the Country in which the offence was committed apply; you cannot use your Nationality of another Country to apply for protection - or even Consular assistance.

Patrick

[jaywalker]

The US website states dual nationality is possible but there can be problems arising from something like ... which government is imposing its laws. Say you are a dual citizen of Thailand and the US and you are in Thailand and you do something stupid and get arrested. How are you going to get the US government to help you when the Thai government will say he/she is a Thai citizen. Serious problems could arise for sure.

Does the US Website actually say all that - because it is wrong. There is no doubt about what Country's laws apply if you are a Dual citizen and commit an offence in one of those Counties. The Laws of the Country in which the offence was committed apply; you cannot use your Nationality of another Country to apply for protection - or even Consular assistance.

Patrick

First and foremost is that the US government will not do squat to "help" you if you get arrested abroad. Best advice is to not do anything stupid.

I love my country but I most assuredly despise my government. MILLIONS of worthless, lazy bureaucrats, that suck up the taxpayer's money, just like the staff at their embassies in BKK or Kuwait.

That's why I don't live in the USA any more.

[samran]

tres amusing that people think that their home government is going to swoop in when their citizens have broken the law overseas.

[Dap]

When the child is born you will get a Thai Birth Certificate from the Thai hospital, You will need it Officially Translated into English at your local Thai Registration Office. On the Thai Birth Certificate and English Translation,it will state "Nationality Thai" you only need the Thai Birth Certificate to get the Child a Thai Passport,which will also state on it "Nationality Thai"

You are then in a position to go to the British Embassy in Bangkok,with your documents,and request a British Birth Certificate (which is not cheap) you must do this in the first year of the Childs life to avoid complications.

They normally send off applications for Birth Certificates to the UK in batches,so there is a wait of 3 months before the British Birth Certificate is forwarded by Post to your home address,which will state on the Birth Certificate: "Claim to Citizenship..S2 (1) (a) British Nationality Act 1981) on it.Which gives the child the right of abode in the UK,the same as any other British Citizen.

At the same time you can apply for a British Passport for the child.Which will also state on it "BRITISH CITIZEN" (the British Embassy did not ask for my childs Thai Passport)

So yes Dual Nationality can be done.

There has been some talk over the years,that when the person becomes of adult age they must make a choice of Nationality,the UK has never forced a Citizen to make a choice,and up to the present, to my Knowledge neither has Thailand.

Great reply "MAJIC" Thanks for taking the time for anyone interested.

[bkk_mike]

One thing to mention.

The OP will need his long form birth certificate that shows he was born in the UK and that his parents were settled in the UK at the time as the short form birth certificate is insufficient proof to pass on nationality to a child born abroad.

P.S. You do not need to get a consular birth certificate. It's seriously expensive and gives you nothing that the Thai birth certificate + certified translation doesn't work for in combination with the UK passport.

Edited February 20, 2012 by bkk_mike

[inkorat]

We took the hospital birth notification to the Ampurs' office and they issued the official Thai birth certificate. I think there was some time limit mentioned by the hospital to apply at the Ampur or it may become more complicated.

In Thailand make sure you list your child's nationality as Thai.

The official Thai birth certificate allows the child's name to the parent(s) house paper (Tabien Ban) and apply for the Thai passport and ID card.

I would do the translation of the Thai birth certificate into english at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Chaeng Wattana road, so that it is recognized as a legal translation by the American embassy, with the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamp on it.

Registering the birth abroad at the embassy and getting a social security number (Tax ID) is easier to do when the child is first born. The childs' social security number is required to list them as a dependant for tax purposes in the USA and to live and work easily in the USA in the future.

In Thailand my daughter is a Thai and we never mention dual citizenship to Thai officials. I think we all know the laws and constitution in Thailand can change in a heartbeat and for me separate identities that cannot be easily linked, makes good sense.

[Mario2008]

A Birth in Thailand must be registered at the amphur within 15 days, or you get a fine of 500 baht.

[evadgib]

Parents should be sure to check Thai documents for accurracy as soon as possible, preferably at the point of issue. Any inaccurracies must be changed immediatly if they are to avoid problems later. A reputable translator is vital.

Common examples: Father becomes Mother ("Mr" becomes "Mrs"), Names are mis-spelt or reversed (surname becomes forename), Parents date of birth drops a decade or 2, Parents nationality is 'nearly right' (Ireland becomes Iceland, UK becomes Ukraine...) If left unchecked parents can expect probs when applying for passports in the childs 2nd nationality.

[p_brownstone]

Parents should be sure to check Thai documents for accurracy as soon as possible, preferably at the point of issue. Any inaccurracies must be changed immediatly if they are to avoid problems later. A reputable translator is vital.

Common examples: Father becomes Mother ("Mr" becomes "Mrs"), Names are mis-spelt or reversed (surname becomes forename), Parents date of birth drops a decade or 2, Parents nationality is 'nearly right' (Ireland becomes Iceland, UK becomes Ukraine...) If left unchecked parents can expect probs when applying for passports in the childs 2nd nationality.

Actually a very good point!

When our Daughter was born nearly 30 years ago in Vajiravudh Hospital in Bangkok the hospital arranged the Birth Certificate for us without any consultation.

My wife is Thai and I am British and at that time in order to be eligible for Thai Citizenship either both parents had to be Thai or have Permanent Residence in Thailand, which I already had even then (much easier to get in those days by the way).

With all the general chaos of family and friends around no-one thought to look at the Birth Certificate until several days afterwards (actually when I went to the British Embassy to Register the birth); the hospital had assumed that the Farang father was just that, Farang, and so, prominently displayed at the top of the Birth Certificate were the words "ไม่ ได้สัญชาติ ไทย" - "not entitled to Thai Nationality".

It was a major problem getting this corrected and took several weeks even with help of friends and family members in various quite senior Government posts.

Patrick

[thaihome]

You should be aware children born overseas to British citizens are British citizens by descent which means they have all the same rights as British citizens otherwise than by descent, except they cannot pass their British nationality on to children who are also born overseas. But, if their children are born in the UK, they will be British otherwise than by descent.

This is indeed very important. I know a family that flew to London a few weeks before the birth of their son in order to assure he would be born there and have UK nationality. The father, though having UK citizenship, was born in Thailand and could not pass it on to his children.

TH

[ludditeman]

Parents should be sure to check Thai documents for accurracy as soon as possible, preferably at the point of issue. Any inaccurracies must be changed immediatly if they are to avoid problems later. A reputable translator is vital.

Common examples: Father becomes Mother ("Mr" becomes "Mrs"), Names are mis-spelt or reversed (surname becomes forename), Parents date of birth drops a decade or 2, Parents nationality is 'nearly right' (Ireland becomes Iceland, UK becomes Ukraine...) If left unchecked parents can expect probs when applying for passports in the childs 2nd nationality.

Thai birth certificate is entirely in Thai script, how would most people check those things?

It was actually the British Consulate that made the spelling mistakes, when I applied for UK passport and Consular Birth Registration. They couldn't type the details into their computer without mistakes.

When they phoned me up to confess they screwed up the kids middle name on the Consular Birth Registration and had already sent of the passport application to the UK, I just agreed as long as the names matched on passport or birth registration it would be OK, whatever it was.

Remember folks, it is THAI staff working at Consulate and Amphur, and they all seem to have little problems using Roman script.

Edited February 20, 2012 by ludditeman

[enricobkk]

lm a Belgian citizen

l cannot get a Belgian passport because l have no adress in Belgium anymore and the Philippine Embasy also cannot provide a passport

I assume you mean you can't get a passport for your son? That sounds very strange, are you an ethnic Belgian or an immigrant. I find it hard to believe such rules fall within UN human rights agreements and treaties, usually Europe honors those more than other countries.

Of course each country has the right to define its own citizenship rules, but I've never heard of a legitimately proven child of a citizen being denied citizenship just because she was born overseas and the family continues to live overseas.

lm a Belgian citizen, my gf is philipino and we both are here in bkk for many years, our son is born 5 months ago , september 10,2011 and we got the thai birthcertificate.....and then it ends.....l cannot get a Belgian passport because l have no adress in Belgium anymore and the Philippine Embasy also cannot provide a passport ......so now l have to go back to my country , rent a room there ,wait till l got registrated their again , wich can take 2 months and in the mean time lm seperated from my family here , cost me alot of money (planes ...deposit for rent , rent , no work there so must take my money from here ) so we are looking for a solution to get my son a passport .......

Please read this:

http://www.diplomati...CT=5&content=14

http://www.diplomati...ACT=5&content=9

and contact the embassy with any questions.

thanks for the reply and links to the embasy websites, even in Dutch lol,

but it also comfirmed what l said , l have no proof of residence from my country because l dont have an adress there,

you can only have a registeration if you rent or own a house and the police or gov and stay there for at least 1-2 months

so if for any reason l have to return to Belgium l or we cannot take my son with me /us ......

[Mario2008]

Did you contact the Belgian embassy?

They can ask for an attest from the local government you live in Thailand. You can get a certificate of residence from immigraiton (or your own embassy). That might be enough. There are many more Belgians in your situation and I'm sure they do not have to return and live in belgium for a period.

It would probalby be against the European Convention on Human Rights.

[rockderk]

When the child is born you will get a Thai Birth Certificate from the Thai hospital, You will need it Officially Translated into English at your local Thai Registration Office. On the Thai Birth Certificate and English Translation,it will state "Nationality Thai" you only need the Thai Birth Certificate to get the Child a Thai Passport,which will also state on it "Nationality Thai"

You are then in a position to go to the British Embassy in Bangkok,with your documents,and request a British Birth Certificate (which is not cheap) you must do this in the first year of the Childs life to avoid complications.

They normally send off applications for Birth Certificates to the UK in batches,so there is a wait of 3 months before the British Birth Certificate is forwarded by Post to your home address,which will state on the Birth Certificate: "Claim to Citizenship..S2 (1) (a) British Nationality Act 1981) on it.Which gives the child the right of abode in the UK,the same as any other British Citizen.

I always understood that the British Birth Certificate for a dual national child was an unnecessary expense, as you can apply directly for a UK Passport with the Certified Translated Thai Birth Certificate alone.

Never bothered to apply for the UK Passports for my kids as they are so b.....y expensive, only last for 5 years, plus we have no plans to travel to the UK/Europe at all in the forseeable future.

Will there really be a problem applying for a UK Passport for a dual national if the child is over one year old and what would it be?

I applied for British citizenship for my daughter [Thai mum and we're not married] when she was 6. I needed to get a Certificate of British Citizenship before she could get a British passport. This was issued after a personal interview at the embassy, [my daughter's and her mother's fluency in English didn't hurt here] and I'd handed over translations of Thai docs: birth cert. mothers' birth cert, fathers Brit birth cert, father's parents' Brit birth certs..... I paid a fee [all told around 10000 at the time plus private translation fees around 1000] The application was sent off to the Home Office and her shiny embossed Cert. of Brit. Citizenship arrived from London in the post at my house around 6 weeks later. With this we got her passport in no time flat. An American friend was going through the process for his daughter at the same time. Compared with the nightmare the US embassy put him through, our experience was cheap and a walk in the park.

[theanimaster]

Am I totally screwed (as a non-domiciled US citizen) with my sons' citizenship-at-birth? As I understand it, my children gain US-citizenship at birth but ONLY if one parent is a DOMICILED US citizen i.e.: has been living or working in the US 5 years at any point prior to the birth. I don't fit that category (I've only ever lived in the States for a year).

So I guess my only option now is to live and work in the US for a year and apply for a spousal/family visa for the wife and kids after a year (which can later be upgraded to citizenship)?