Do You Ever Ride Without A Helmet

[Fookhaht]

I have a friend who rides a little Scoopy every day. It's a little more than a year old and has 22,000 kilometers on it. I told him that if he would promise to wear a helmet, I'd give him a decent one with a good face shield. He declined and told me he doesn't like helmets. I quizzed him about the big flying bugs and asked him if he ever got hit in the eye. He says he has hit a lot of them and they do hurt but has never gotten hit in the eye. This guy is about 65 years old. Maybe he has a death wish?

I must confess that when I'm just zipping down to the 7-11 on a scooter I often leave the helmet behind. I'm not going fast and I think the chances of an accident are pretty slim. (I actually worry more about getting hit by a car or bike when I WALK to the 7-11)...

Wishful thinking. Most accidents happen to a person within 1.5km of their homes.

you sound like my mom

Was your mom wrong most of the time?

[taninthai]

what I find bery strange here and could be a contributing factor in the helmet debate is how the police enforce the law, it's almost like if they are not doing a helmet road check then ignore it, I believe this is a big problem here, it's like they only respond to law breakers if that specific law is what they are sent to enforce, perhaps if someone told them they could enforce the law at all times and did that then there might just be a glimmer of hope, I have seen cops riding around passing many many people not wearing helmets and they totally ignore it perhaps if they responded by enforcng all of the law at all times we might see a change, it's like they are told to go and check for helmets and that is all they do for the duration......................observations in Pattaya could be different elsewhere

Smedley, I believe the answer is very simple. The vast majority of cops function in response to clear and direct orders. When they are ordered to set up a road block and issue tickets, that is what they do. When they are ordered to set up a road block and take 100 or 200 Baht bribes, that is what they do. When they are not ordered to do this, they reset to default mode which usually involves sidling off to do their side jobs like taxi driving.

Their commanding officer's orders are what count not the law, the purpose of the law or even the well-being of motorcyclists' brains.

Don't want to turn this into a thread about the police not doing there job but last year they did start a helmet campaign the thing is they seem to have there priorities all mixed up drive past any school at finishing time the police will be there stopping all traffic so all the kids can ride their biked out the school no helmets,3 up and riding side saddle surely it should be the other way round and they should be letting the traffic go and stopping the school kids no need to give out fines the bikes simply stay at the school until they come back with helmets tis would be a sure fire way to teach and let the youngsters get use to wearing safety gear seems the Thais just can't see this though

Edited March 4, 2012 by taninthai

[Fookhaht]

what I find bery strange here and could be a contributing factor in the helmet debate is how the police enforce the law, it's almost like if they are not doing a helmet road check then ignore it, I believe this is a big problem here, it's like they only respond to law breakers if that specific law is what they are sent to enforce, perhaps if someone told them they could enforce the law at all times and did that then there might just be a glimmer of hope, I have seen cops riding around passing many many people not wearing helmets and they totally ignore it perhaps if they responded by enforcng all of the law at all times we might see a change, it's like they are told to go and check for helmets and that is all they do for the duration......................observations in Pattaya could be different elsewhere

I saw a good example in Samui. On my first visit there in 2007 the helmet law were new and the police really enforced the new law. Everybody was using helmet as far as I could see and it's a quite small island. On my visit two years later something have happened, there was rarely use of helmets and no police checks and thats still the situation. So I suppose there must be some kind of choice from the local police...

A big push to enforce the helmet law is usually the result of...

1) some politician wants to get brownie points, so has the local BIB make the big push, signs everywhere, police checks, etc. He gets the votes or a general boost in his reputation. Then it's dropped.

2) some high-profile accident (hi-so Thai, well-known farang, etc.) prompts the bit enforcement push to placate the complainers

3) some directive comes down from on-high (provincial governor, Transportation Ministry, etc.), and a flurry of enforcement activity follows to placate the big bosses.

Whichever direction it comes from,the effort is soon lost or mothballed due to lack of real interest and commitment to the safety of the motoring public. I've seen at least 3-4 big enforcement initiatives over the last 8-9 years in my area. However, the 80% of the time between campaigns, the public just carries on as it always has--helmet-less. No real change.

[wantan]

Enough already! the last thing I wanted to do was post a comment on this topic., I have been riding (not driving) motorcycles for about forty five years and anybody that claims they always wear a helmet is on a par with a golfer who say"s they have has never cheated in a game! Rules as well as laws are in place to protect people that do not have the capacity to think for themselves and ascertain the risks of what they are about to do.I wear a helmet most of the time but if I am riding to the farm (about 1 km away on a quiet country road) I dont, And yes that is a risk I choose to take! And yes again a jumbo jet may fall from the sky and land on top of my unprotected head .But life should not be 100 percent regulated like some would prefer .But we as Farangs in this country all need to step back from time to time and review the reasons why we are here? and if you want to make this country the same as where you came from, so you feel more at home. Think again It will not happen.

And? Why so emotional? Its just about wearing a helmet? Some simply do it, some refuse to do it and some others think before every trip if there is a need to do it

Not emotional at all. Are you not saying the same things as I wrote?

OK, it sounded emotional to me. Maybe i was wrong. But if i read comments of people trying to to make wearing a helmet seem ridiculous, then i guess its just this "i fear losing my face" trap. Its not about "airplanes falling from the sky", its about you falling down and landing on your head. And you seem to forget that there is a law here in LOS saying that you have to wear a helmet. This law is made by thai government for public good. This is what we should talk about. Not about farang wanting to change LOS.

I saw a good example in Samui. On my first visit there in 2007 the helmet law were new and the police really enforced the new law. Everybody was using helmet as far as I could see and it's a quite small island. On my visit two years later something have happened, there was rarely use of helmets and no police checks and thats still the situation. So I suppose there must be some kind of choice from the local police...

It would be a good start if policemen would show people that it makes sense wearing a helmet. For this they should properly wear a helmet by themselves. Just writing tickets isn't like doing a good job.

[wantan]

Don't want to turn this into a thread about the police not doing there job but last year they did start a helmet campaign the thing is they seem to have there priorities all mixed up drive past any school at finishing time the police will be there stopping all traffic so all the kids can ride their biked out the school no helmets,3 up and riding side saddle surely it should be the other way round and they should be letting the traffic go and stopping the school kids no need to give out fines the bikes simply stay at the school until they come back with helmets tis would be a sure fire way to teach and let the youngsters get use to wearing safety gear seems the Thais just can't see this though

Being role model would be most effective. New laws are not the best way to break up such things. But everything is not so easy. Let the children walk home to get a helmet could be dangerous too. Mostly there are no sidewalks, no cycle ways, no working traffic lights for pedestrians, ...

Teachers, police, parents, they all should be role model. But OK, its up to thai people

[wana]

if your dad thinks wearing helmets is not cool and your uncle doesnt wear one either or your older brothers theres no way a teenager is going to be caught wearing it

the police can say what they like , to a kid its not illegal if your dad does it every day and nothing bad has happened to him

[ludditeman]

And you seem to forget that there is a law here in LOS saying that you have to wear a helmet. This law is made by thai government for public good. This is what we should talk about. Not about farang wanting to change LOS.

There are also laws that say no prostitution, no drunk driving, no driving without a Thai DL (foreigners on LT Visa), working without a permit, no gambling, etc.

Nobody pays much attention to them either.

I got the Thai DL, one out of five ain't bad.

Edited March 4, 2012 by ludditeman

[wantan]

And you seem to forget that there is a law here in LOS saying that you have to wear a helmet. This law is made by thai government for public good. This is what we should talk about. Not about farang wanting to change LOS.

There are also laws that say no prostitution, no drunk driving, no driving without a Thai DL (foreigners on LT Visa), working without a permit, no gambling, etc.

Nobody pays much attention to them either.

I got the Thai DL, one out of five ain't bad.

You quote one sentence i have written without quoting the context it refers to.

If you don't want to wear a helmet its absolutely OK for me. And if you like drunk driving than just do it. I will not stop you or discuss it with you.

[BSJ]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

[Gary A]

Quite frankly, you have to be a (pee brain?) pea brain to believe that helmets don't save lives. The best rider in the world can't avoid all the idiots on the roads here or anywhere else. As with many other things, it's up to you. I have seen many busted heads that wouldn't have been busted if they had been wearing a helmet. If you want to forego that bit of protection, do so, but don't encourage other people to take that chance.

[RED21]

Ironic, isn't it? Edited March 5, 2012 by RED21

[ludditeman]

If you don't want to wear a helmet its absolutely OK for me. And if you like drunk driving than just do it. I will not stop you or discuss it with you.

You're OK with the prostitution and gambling then?

[cardholder]

Quite frankly, you have to be a (pee brain?) pea brain to believe that helmets don't save lives. The best rider in the world can't avoid all the idiots on the roads here or anywhere else. As with many other things, it's up to you. I have seen many busted heads that wouldn't have been busted if they had been wearing a helmet. If you want to forego that bit of protection, do so, but don't encourage other people to take that chance.

This tends to support your view and makes for interesting reading:-

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809715.pdf

[Gary A]

I know that I'll never convince young guys who are still bullet proof to wear a helmet. If they live to be older, they may see some wisdom in protecting their heads. I can't even convince my Thai wife to wear a helmet.

As much as I love riding, I do realize that riding two wheels without a four wheel vehicle cage around you is very dangerous. There's nothing between you and the road except air. I hate a nanny state as much or more than most people but do accept the fact that seat belts and helmets are a good idea.

[wana]

If you don't want to wear a helmet its absolutely OK for me. And if you like drunk driving than just do it. I will not stop you or discuss it with you.

You're OK with the prostitution and gambling then?

how did we get to gambing and prostitution in a thread on helmet safety ?

more people die every year from slipping in the shower with wet feet and many people

get sick from having sex without condoms

nobody is going to stop taking showers or having sex because its dangerous ,but wearing a helmet when motorcycling

is just common sense

ANYTHING can happen ,you can feint,have a heart atack or a stroke or even just blackout ,more experienced riders than myself have just lost their balance

and equilibrium before ,hit a pothole ,sand ,oil or gravel ,a split second later and your gone

[transam]

If you don't want to wear a helmet its absolutely OK for me. And if you like drunk driving than just do it. I will not stop you or discuss it with you.

You're OK with the prostitution and gambling then?

how did we get to gambing and prostitution in a thread on helmet safety ?

more people die every year from slipping in the shower with wet feet and many people

get sick from having sex without condoms

nobody is going to stop taking showers or having sex because its dangerous ,but wearing a helmet when motorcycling

is just common sense

ANYTHING can happen ,you can feint,have a heart atack or a stroke or even just blackout ,more experienced riders than myself have just lost their balance

and equilibrium before ,hit a pothole ,sand ,oil or gravel ,a split second later and your gone

And don't forget the unexpected ''broadside'' that no one has control over.

[JSixpack]

But life should not be 100 percent regulated like some would prefer .But we as Farangs in this country all need to step back from time to time and review the reasons why we are here? and if you want to make this country the same as where you came from, so you feel more at home. Think again It will not happen.

An exaggeration and distortion. Most here are just sayin' that driving a bike is a lot safer if you're wearing a good helmet. And most of us, I think, are doing so. You don't wanna wear one or just wear a plastic pot, up to you. I'm a big believer in Social Darwinism myself, and am gratified at how very well indeed it's working among the farang population in Thailand.

[smedly]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

yes I agree but you can narrow the odds in the event you are involved in an accident, it doesn't mean that you suddenly become invincible, I know lots of people that where involved in accidents that wish they had been wearing one along with some protective clothing, it must be coupled with safe driving.

As for people drinking and driving and those that chose not to wear safety gear two differnet things, a drunk driver is a danger to everyone the latter is only a danger to themselves.

[Fishenough]

This tends to support your view and makes for interesting reading:-

http://www-nrd.nhtsa...Pubs/809715.pdf

Interesting;

Highlights

1. The state of the art in helmet design and materials has improved significantly over

the past fifteen years, and their effectiveness in preventing fatalities is greater than

previous estimates indicated.

2. As a result of these improvements, motorcycle helmets are currently estimated to

be 37 percent effective in preventing rider fatalities, compared with the 1989

estimated effectiveness of 29 percent.

3. The higher effectiveness means that over the ten-year period from 1993 through

2002, motorcycle helmets have saved 7,808 lives, 2,378 more than was previously

thought.

4. Effectiveness of 37 percent means that a rider can reduce his or her risk of

suffering a fatal injury in a crash by over one-third simply by wearing a proper

helmet.

5. Despite the improved performance of helmets, the incidence of fatal motorcycle

crashes in the United States has been increasing in recent years, as the percentage

of riders who use helmets has fallen from 71 percent to 58 percent nationally.

Braddock, Schwartz et al. (1992), found that unhelmeted

motorcyclists were 3.4 times more likely to die than were helmeted riders.

[transam]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

Not so long ago l had to wash blood and hair off the road outside my house from a young girl who wore a helmet. Unfortunately she didn't do the strap up cos couldn't use her phone. She hit a rut and came off, so did the helmet, l watched it bounce past my gate. She was in a mess but the family said the phone is OK.

[smedly]

This tends to support your view and makes for interesting reading:-

http://www-nrd.nhtsa...Pubs/809715.pdf

Interesting;

Highlights

1. The state of the art in helmet design and materials has improved significantly over

the past fifteen years, and their effectiveness in preventing fatalities is greater than

previous estimates indicated.

2. As a result of these improvements, motorcycle helmets are currently estimated to

be 37 percent effective in preventing rider fatalities, compared with the 1989

estimated effectiveness of 29 percent.

3. The higher effectiveness means that over the ten-year period from 1993 through

2002, motorcycle helmets have saved 7,808 lives, 2,378 more than was previously

thought.

4. Effectiveness of 37 percent means that a rider can reduce his or her risk of

suffering a fatal injury in a crash by over one-third simply by wearing a proper

helmet.

5. Despite the improved performance of helmets, the incidence of fatal motorcycle

crashes in the United States has been increasing in recent years, as the percentage

of riders who use helmets has fallen from 71 percent to 58 percent nationally.

Braddock, Schwartz et al. (1992), found that unhelmeted

motorcyclists were 3.4 times more likely to die than were helmeted riders.

There is even new technology in the works, they have found that replacing the inner protective layer with a liquid or to be more precise "a gel" improves the protection a helmet provides by a further 30%, the company that researched it and is now rolling it out to the masses based their research on how the human brain is protected inside the skull with a layer of liquid.

[wantan]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

Not so long ago l had to wash blood and hair off the road outside my house from a young girl who wore a helmet. Unfortunately she didn't do the strap up cos couldn't use her phone. She hit a rut and came off, so did the helmet, l watched it bounce past my gate. She was in a mess but the family said the phone is OK.

Sad but true. Many people spend more time and money for buying protection covers for their phone than for buying a helmet.

[smedly]

http://www.gizmag.com/mips-helmet-technology/21656/

[BSJ]

I know that I'll never convince young guys who are still bullet proof to wear a helmet. If they live to be older, they may see some wisdom in protecting their heads. I can't even convince my Thai wife to wear a helmet.

As much as I love riding, I do realize that riding two wheels without a four wheel vehicle cage around you is very dangerous. There's nothing between you and the road except air. I hate a nanny state as much or more than most people but do accept the fact that seat belts and helmets are a good idea.

Thanks for grouping me with the young guys. At 59 I am still young of heart.....even though the exterior is a little worse for wear!

[BSJ]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

Not so long ago l had to wash blood and hair off the road outside my house from a young girl who wore a helmet. Unfortunately she didn't do the strap up cos couldn't use her phone. She hit a rut and came off, so did the helmet, l watched it bounce past my gate. She was in a mess but the family said the phone is OK.

Using the phone whilst moving is a different issue. In the police state of Australia there are laws about using a phone without a handsfree kit in (on) a moving vehicle. There are helmet laws for motorcyclists, bicyclists, horse riders and construction workers.

My point is: What about freedom of choice? How about letting us decide what we do in our life. Governments should stick to running the country, not running the citizens within.

[madjbs]

I am all for personal freedom, but, the problem is that high death rates due to certain careless activities can cost the country a lot of money, and cause a lot of distress to surviving children and family. That's why it can be in everyone's interest to legislate against certain things like wearing helmets.

[mackes]

My point is: What about freedom of choice? How about letting us decide what we do in our life. Governments should stick to running the country, not running the citizens within.

Running the country is exactly what the government try to do when creating laws against careless use of common resources.

A country consist of the citizens within it, you can not separate those, without the citizens there is nothing to run!

I am pro a high personal freedom but when it comes to using other peoples money and resources I am not.

There are proofs that helmets and safety belts saving loads of money for the community.

[wantan]

People who are wearing helmets get killed everyday.....and many more are left as quadraplegics. All you pro helmet pee brains need to realise helmets don't save lives. Avoiding sudden stops (accidents) saves lives.

Not so long ago l had to wash blood and hair off the road outside my house from a young girl who wore a helmet. Unfortunately she didn't do the strap up cos couldn't use her phone. She hit a rut and came off, so did the helmet, l watched it bounce past my gate. She was in a mess but the family said the phone is OK.

Using the phone whilst moving is a different issue. In the police state of Australia there are laws about using a phone without a handsfree kit in (on) a moving vehicle. There are helmet laws for motorcyclists, bicyclists, horse riders and construction workers.

My point is: What about freedom of choice? How about letting us decide what we do in our life. Governments should stick to running the country, not running the citizens within.

Freedom of choice is important. But some things don't work out without laws. It is not about you wearing a helmet. It is about more/most people should wear a helmet. And i think this law makes sense, as long as i see children and teenagers driving fast without any security gear. Some not even with a DL. Some eating Som Tam. Some talking on the phone...

Thailand isn't as "free" as many people think. There are many regulations and laws not even Thai people are aware of. It will be a hard job for government and executive branches to get things sorted. Maybe its sad to imagine for some here, but if LOS wants to develop to a modern and wealthy country, than laws need to be executed.

[mic6ard]

It's really amazes me whenever this topic comes up.

Personally, I always wear one. Saved my bacon the other day, didn't go down but a car infront of me kicked up a stone, left a nice ding in the helmet.

Helmet don't just save your head when you crash but also prevent you from being beaned by a stone or stray debris.

In earlier posting, some one mention rider checking hair at every light? I've seen it, a dude was speeding along on his DREAM, stopped at the light, pulled out a COMB (of all things) and brushed up his hair. Lights goes green, off he goes, completely messing up his hair again.

Y bother? don't ask me, but he just looks like an idiot, which he is.

[wana]

It's really amazes me whenever this topic comes up.

Personally, I always wear one. Saved my bacon the other day, didn't go down but a car infront of me kicked up a stone, left a nice ding in the helmet.

Helmet don't just save your head when you crash but also prevent you from being beaned by a stone or stray debris.

pulled out a COMB (of all things) and brushed up his hair. Lights goes green, off he goes, completely messing up his hair again.

LOL

i have seen the old comb trick before many times ,also seen guys with a barely any hair 'fixing " it with their hands and then checking in the mirror

if its looking good while stopped at the red light

they probably think im an idiot because i wear a helmet on hot sunny days and even started wearing a protective jacket from rs taichee because i know its

probaby a metter of when and not if i hit the road at some stage ,might be my fault or might be someone elses but theres a lot of sense in dressing for the fall

,not for the ride !