Smog In Thailand's North 'To Get Worse'

[PoodMaiDai]

OR I COULD just keep complaining , sit in the Air Con , and surf the net..

Beats getting sick.

[sauvagecheri]

I would imagine that chopping the material and put it back in the ground after chopping it ,instead of burning it would be better ,that may be a solution as it will decompose in the top soil and lighten it up ,I have seen some fields close up in Issan and the soil is almost like solid brick .Ashes make a very good fertilizer and puts back nutrients in the ground .

My personal view about this ..too many people on this spaceship ..1 billion enough maybe 2 billions but almost 7 billions is unsustainable we are on our way to extinction ,if its not the bomb or running out of food it will be another way .

Edited March 6, 2012 by sauvagecheri

[HaleySabai]

Good Choice. Chiangmai sucks! All Yr. long. Please tell everyone you know!

Thanks.

Ya,please do, there is enough BKK people here already.

[PoodMaiDai]

My personal view about this ..too many people on this spaceship ..1 billion enough maybe 2 billions but almost 7 billions is unsustainable we are on our way to extinction ,if its not the bomb or running out of food it will be another way .

That is my view as well. A herd thinning is long overdue.

[canopy]

I know they are uneducated farmers, but come on. In the 1000+ years they have been burning, have they not thought that there is too much smoke if everyone burns at the same time?

Annual field burning is not ancient, it's a new method of farming. Today Thai farmers see a waste product in their field and burn it up; either in place or in heaps, then add chemicals and other things to increase yields. The ancient way was organic where today's 'waste product' was prized and used for soil enrichment, not burned away. Today Thai's could just as well till their fields instead of burn them, but they have no incentive to because burning is so cheap and easy. I agree you start fining them and they will stop and the skies will clear real quickly.

I guess I don't understand the notion of spreading the burning versus burning at once. Won't the cumulative effect over a 24 hour period be the same? Sounds like advising people that smoking is fine as long as you do a pack spread it out over a day instead of concentrating it in a short time.

[annabel]

My personal view about this ..too many people on this spaceship ..1 billion enough maybe 2 billions but almost 7 billions is unsustainable we are on our way to extinction ,if its not the bomb or running out of food it will be another way .

That is my view as well. A herd thinning is long overdue.

Are YOU willing to be part of that Herd Thinning... ????

[nikster]

Northerners are nice people, but they're pyromaniacs, burning everything everywhere. While escaping Chiang Rai in 2007, I surveyed the damage going south, and the burning and smoke stop abruptly at the line separating central Thailand from the north, even detouring around Sukothai along a line from P'lok to Tak. Licenses and fines would work if enforced I imagine.

I also escaped in 2007 and saw the same thing - it stopped in central Thailand.

This year we drove from CM to Hua Hin and the smoke did not really stop all the way to BKK. I think this year is way worse than 07. Can't recall a PM10 exceeding 200 in February, either!

And report from Hua Hin, I am by the seaside and the air is clear. But that's only because of the sea air, as the neighbors here are doing their best to re-create the problems in the north and burning their trash every evening. They're just as fire-happy here as in the north, just more lucky with the winds and such.

[nikster]

Is it really that difficult to try to coordinate the burns so they don't all burn at once?

IDK look at the fire map... I think the problem is a bit too big for this solution.

They need to stop the burning. The west has done so, the Thais can do too.

As for when who knows... several of my Thai friends up north have never complained or said anything but this year they are, and they are organizing and writing letters. Maybe this year will be bad enough that awareness of the problem reaches critical mass? Maybe not, and it needs to get worse still before people wake up. In the vast majority of cases there is no good reason to burn - its just convenient...

[Reasonableman]

In suburban Oz, 50 or so years ago, homes were still being built with brick compost bins and incinerators in the back yard. It was the norm. As areas got built up, and backyard burn-off was eventually banned, people protested. It had become a part of life, a habit, and they were being deprived of the freedom and the right to burn grass clippings, tree branches, newspaper, plastic bags, even styrofoam. The bans were enforced vigorously. People stopped backyard burning. Air quality improved, and people appreciated that. Attitudes changed. At the same time, local councils had regular cleanup campaigns and took trash away for free. And they started recycling campaigns for paper, glass, plastics, tin/aluminium cans, etc. Rural burnoff is different for sure, but all I'm saying is that it's not impossible to change habits and behaviors.

[japatee]

I have rural parcels in Chiang Rai. The air got a bit better on Sunday. It was still bad, but you at least could discern between cloud and sky, and there were a few stars seen in the night sky. I have a dozen brush piles ready to burn but I won't light them now. The brush piles consist mainly of dead tree branches (some with parasitic growths) and cut weeds. For those with rural properties, it's constant battles to keep the weeds from taking over. I appreciate that composting and chipping would be preferable, but such things are not practical, particularly on a large scale.

http://organicandsustainablegardening.yolasite.com/

[LingLek]

Few will hire a tractor (and pay for the gas) to turn the stubble back into the soil when it can just be burnt for free. Mulching is for landed gentry with time on their hands. The longer the dry season the thicker the haze. Like the farmers and their families, you just have to wait for the rain.

[MESmith]

Few will hire a tractor (and pay for the gas) to turn the stubble back into the soil when it can just be burnt for free. Mulching is for landed gentry with time on their hands. The longer the dry season the thicker the haze. Like the farmers and their families, you just have to wait for the rain.

But they use a tractor anyway, to prepare the soil for the next crop.

[japatee]

Few will hire a tractor (and pay for the gas) to turn the stubble back into the soil when it can just be burnt for free. Mulching is for landed gentry with time on their hands. The longer the dry season the thicker the haze. Like the farmers and their families, you just have to wait for the rain.

But they use a tractor anyway, to prepare the soil for the next crop.

education and heavy fines that are actually enforced!

[japatee]

Prey for rain

[japatee]

[moskito]

In support of flying’s post, much of the mountainous farmland is inaccessible to heavy machinery and when they are finished harvesting they are left with mountains of stuff they don’t know what to do with. So it goes up in flame and we breath the results. These practices are so widespread, punitive measures just can’t be enforced.

You’re not going to make much headway telling people to stop making a living or feeding their families. I think it will take another generation or two to see much change. The following pictures show areas near Pha Tang, Phu Che Fa, Mae Chaem and my own back yard.

I like your pictures villafarang, NO CHEMTRAILS ....like on 90% from all western countries made pictures, but RIGHT, lets talk about some farmers burning their old ricefields like they do since 500 years when NO FARANG was here to complain...... Its the same old story EVERY YEAR since I am living in Asia....and it will change nothing talking every year AGAIN about it .... same with the too much water when raining and not enough water when dry season....

[sauvagecheri]

My personal view about this ..too many people on this spaceship ..1 billion enough maybe 2 billions but almost 7 billions is unsustainable we are on our way to extinction ,if its not the bomb or running out of food it will be another way .

That is my view as well. A herd thinning is long overdue.

Are YOU willing to be part of that Herd Thinning... ????

I dont think we will have much to say about it ,looks like it will happen by itself when and if it happens...wether you are willing to be part of it or not !

[Reasonableman]

Maybe talking about it won't change much, but it has a greater potential for change than putting you head in the sand and staying stumm. The Thais, such as these school kids, hardly seem to be enjoying it either. The jibe at complaining farangs is misplaced. For many, Thailand IS their home.

[japatee]

This is a Thai issue, a farrang issue, a world issue and effects everyone. I think the majority of Thai's agree. The minority, they need educating to change behaviour to fit with the present day awareness of the issue. 500 years of burning can stop overnight with the right policy. And why shouldn't it stop? Thai people always amaze me at their ability to change when they need to.

[RubbaJohnny]

What's the danger level for Fog with smeg in it in developed nations.The 1953 London pee super casued 1000's of premature deaths I recall.

If is cars and weather action pssible but if its burningstubble and Forests in bordering states anASEAN wide re-education deal needed.

[Card]

There is no other way for those farmers to clear their lands for the next crops ? they dont think about others ? apparently not .

Well, any other method would be enormously expensive and less effective which would cause a huge increase in crop prices, both in the food shops in Thailand and for export. The Thai economy is based on cheap farming (40%) and much less on tourism (6%) so without practices such as burning off the land, Thailand would be much less economically competitive and this would lead to an increase in unemployment, reduced investment and a poorer economy. It's not a simple case of the farmers not thinking about others, it's more about no-one coming up with a better method for the farmers, who also suffer respiratory diseases, to use instead.

Well, they could always just plough it back into the soil. They do use tractors, you know. Even after they've burnt the straw, much of stubble remains, & gets ploughed in, anyway.

Ploughing the stubble back into the soil does not reduce pests and diseases - it provides a reservoir for them and is very labour intensive. However, one method is to let the land stay fallow for at least a year or 2 - but that costs the farmers money - the government should pay the farmers to leave their land fallow and then maybe everybody would be happy.

[Card]

I think if the foreign embassies and consulates issued a travel warning discouraging their residents to avoid travel to North Thailand then Thailand might take this more seriously.

Wouldn't make the slightest difference - cheap food for city dwellers and export is far more important to the Thai economy than tourism.

[Card]

Is it really that difficult to try to coordinate the burns so they don't all burn at once?

I know they are uneducated farmers, but come on. In the 1000+ years they have been burning, have they not thought that there is too much smoke if everyone burns at the same time?

There is a certain kind of ignorance found in South East Asia that is indescribable to someone who doesn't live here.

It also applies to farangs who live in Thailand's cities and endlessly moan about the poor farmer workers who have few resources at their disposal, little income, poor health and little education and yet provide the whole country with cheap food and 40% of its exports.

[Card]

I would imagine that chopping the material and put it back in the ground after chopping it ,instead of burning it would be better ,that may be a solution as it will decompose in the top soil and lighten it up ,I have seen some fields close up in Issan and the soil is almost like solid brick .Ashes make a very good fertilizer and puts back nutrients in the ground .

My personal view about this ..too many people on this spaceship ..1 billion enough maybe 2 billions but almost 7 billions is unsustainable we are on our way to extinction ,if its not the bomb or running out of food it will be another way .

So are you volunteeering to end it all first to make room for one more? BTW, chopping the material is not the same as producing ashes.

[Card]

Is it really that difficult to try to coordinate the burns so they don't all burn at once?

IDK look at the fire map... I think the problem is a bit too big for this solution.

They need to stop the burning. The west has done so, the Thais can do too.

As for when who knows... several of my Thai friends up north have never complained or said anything but this year they are, and they are organizing and writing letters. Maybe this year will be bad enough that awareness of the problem reaches critical mass? Maybe not, and it needs to get worse still before people wake up. In the vast majority of cases there is no good reason to burn - its just convenient...

The west uses tons of chemicals - insecticides, fungicide, herbicides, fertilizers - Thai farmers can't afford them as they get so little for their crops to supply whinging city dwellers with cheap food and for export.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Card

[Card]

In suburban Oz, 50 or so years ago, homes were still being built with brick compost bins and incinerators in the back yard. It was the norm. As areas got built up, and backyard burn-off was eventually banned, people protested. It had become a part of life, a habit, and they were being deprived of the freedom and the right to burn grass clippings, tree branches, newspaper, plastic bags, even styrofoam. The bans were enforced vigorously. People stopped backyard burning. Air quality improved, and people appreciated that. Attitudes changed. At the same time, local councils had regular cleanup campaigns and took trash away for free. And they started recycling campaigns for paper, glass, plastics, tin/aluminium cans, etc. Rural burnoff is different for sure, but all I'm saying is that it's not impossible to change habits and behaviors.

You won't do it in Thailand until you have better education, finance and alternatives and start paying farmers higher prices and payments for allowing their land to stay fallow for some time. It's not Australia and it's not so much urban areas and rubbish.

[Reasonableman]

All valid points, thanks.

Rural burnoff is different for sure, but all I'm saying is that _it's not impossible to change habits and behaviors_.

[Card]

This is a Thai issue, a farrang issue, a world issue and effects everyone. I think the majority of Thai's agree. The minority, they need educating to change behaviour to fit with the present day awareness of the issue. 500 years of burning can stop overnight with the right policy. And why shouldn't it stop? Thai people always amaze me at their ability to change when they need to.

The question is WHAT IS THE RIGHT POLICY!

[Reasonableman]

And the answer is....

This is a Thai issue, a farrang issue, a world issue and effects everyone. I think the majority of Thai's agree. The minority, they need educating to change behaviour to fit with the present day awareness of the issue. 500 years of burning can stop overnight with the right policy. And why shouldn't it stop? Thai people always amaze me at their ability to change when they need to.

The question is WHAT IS THE RIGHT POLICY!

[Card]

And the answer is....

This is a Thai issue, a farrang issue, a world issue and effects everyone. I think the majority of Thai's agree. The minority, they need educating to change behaviour to fit with the present day awareness of the issue. 500 years of burning can stop overnight with the right policy. And why shouldn't it stop? Thai people always amaze me at their ability to change when they need to.

The question is WHAT IS THE RIGHT POLICY!

Already told u enough times already - can't u read?