Swift Transfer From Usa Exchange Rate Question

[meand]

I just had a large sum transferred from the US to a Bangkok Bank account. I read through all the directions on their page closely, and they were talking about making trial deposits to confirm the account etc. I had a third party send the funds from the US, and we were planning on trying to time giving the third party these trial deposit numbers to get the best rate, as it has been fluctuating a lot lately. Next thing I know, the funds are just in there, and we got the worst possible exchange rate for plus or minus a week (plus or minus a month even maybe). The thing that kinda bugged me was we were trying to time it a little by telling them the trial deposits at what we thought was a good time to do so, yet they just popped it in there at the worst possible time. The unfortunate part is, I can't really contact the sender of the funds... is it possible they opted for a no trial deposits transaction??

Every time I go talk to somebody about stuff like this, in English, I always get blank stares... it just doesn't work. Am I wrong in being ultra paranoid about the transfer? It seems like there is a window there where the bank can say they got the funds in about a 2 day window. Whichever day is better for them may be the day they convert. Am I a paranoid delusionist? Yet it didn't go down the way their webpage said as far as the trial deposits etc, which bugged me, a lot. Any advice on this?

Any help is appreciated, even telling me just to shut it and you are paranoid would be appreciated I went to the bank to talk today, and they put me on the phone with a Thai lady. It was just a nightmare. I left and here I am posting. Again, any thoughts appreciated.

Regards.

Edited March 8, 2012 by meand

[lopburi3]

You seem to be paranoid (your words). Swift needs no test deposits that I have ever heard about - it is just done. What sometimes uses this two few cents test is ACH transfers bypassing SWIFT using Bangkok Bank New York and there ACH code.

For Swift from US I always got about noon the next day (if workdays) and I made transfer at opening of business US time. For ACH transfers is is normally the second day about 0900 Thai time for transfers made on-line during night US time.

[CharlieH]

Its done, forget it, move on, remember it the next time you need to move money because as sure as eggs are eggs there is sod all you can do about it now.

Edited March 8, 2012 by CharlieH

[Pib]

Where you talk about trial deposits that where you are setting up an ACH funds transfer link with your home country bank's online banking. Usully two trial deposits are sent to your Bangkok Bank account, you check you Bangkok bank account to determine how much was sent (usually 1 to 99 cents in trial deposits), and you are then able to confirm the funds transfer link you are setting up by entering the correct trial deposit amounts sent. Now all of this is just to setup an external bank transfer link on your online banking with U.S. bank XYZ....then you can logon and transfer funds yourself.

Now, if you just have a third party send funds they are either going to send the funds via one of two methods: (1) SWIFT transfer...to do this they need the Bangkok Bank SWIFT number and your Bangkok Bank account number, or (2) an ACH transfer using the Bangkok Bank "NY" branch routing number and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number. I sure hope you didn't let your sending bank convert to baht before sending because the customer almost always loses out...it's a cash cow for Sending banks plus you still get hit with any fees the receiving bank may apply to receive the funds...like I will mention below.

Assuming you did not authorize your Sending bank to convert to baht before sending, which basically gives you a 1-4% lower exchange rate...your Sending bank pockets that fee, the when the home country funds/USD arrive Bangkok Bank in Thailand where they are converted using the "TT Buying Rate" which is about the best rate the common man can get...the local Bangkok Bank will apply a 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) funds receipts/conversion fee. And if you used the Bangkok Bank New York routing method they would have sliced off $5 or $10 as it flowed thru them on the the in-Thailand branch so be sure to consider that in calculating your exact exchange rate.

In all the times I've transferred money to Bangkok Bank from the U.S. I got the TT Buying Rate, Update 1 on the funds posting date...Update 1 is is the opening exchange rate for the day....depending on FX volatility during the day there can bet up to maybe 6 updates throughout the day...but usually there are only 1 to 3 updates.

[meand]

Thanks all. I boasted about reading the terms very "closely," yet it seems I didn't. The trial deposits were not a requirement as I thought they were. I also agree with the poster that said move on.

I would actually think about transferring to a different account next time, one in which you could deposit US dollars in. My main concern is I lost a bunch just by the incidental fact that the money arrived on the worst possible day (the 29th). It seems if you had the money transferred in dollars (Bangkok Bank has this option if you open a foreign currency account), then it may be the best of both worlds?? Not sure if there are any drawbacks to the foreign currency account transfers. Anyway, that is perhaps for next time. Thanks all.

[Naam]

Thanks all. I boasted about reading the terms very "closely," yet it seems I didn't. The trial deposits were not a requirement as I thought they were. I also agree with the poster that said move on.

I would actually think about transferring to a different account next time, one in which you could deposit US dollars in. My main concern is I lost a bunch just by the incidental fact that the money arrived on the worst possible day (the 29th). It seems if you had the money transferred in dollars (Bangkok Bank has this option if you open a foreign currency account), then it may be the best of both worlds?? Not sure if there are any drawbacks to the foreign currency account transfers. Anyway, that is perhaps for next time. Thanks all.

any transfers of mine from abroad are routed through Bangkok Bank even though i am not their client but bank with Siam Commercial. but every time i make a transfer i am getting a phone call from Bangkok Bank asking me whether i accept an offered exchange rate of xyz or wait (up to two weeks or more, not sure about that) till it's more convenient for me. in nearly all cases i have haggled a few more Satangs and then changed on the spot.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Naam

[Pib]

Not sure if there are any drawbacks to the foreign currency account transfers. Anyway, that is perhaps for next time.

Yes, additional fees for foreign currency accounts. Unless you need "dollars" for use in Thailand just be sure the 3d party/Sending bank does not convert the dollars to baht before sending...you'll lose out in that deal...but you leave the Sending bank smiling in the nice little profit they made off you...just let the in-Thailand bank do the currency conversion.

[flying]

any transfers of mine from abroad are routed through Bangkok Bank even though i am not their client but bank with Siam Commercial. but every time i make a transfer i am getting a phone call from Bangkok Bank asking me whether i accept an offered exchange rate of xyz or wait (up to two weeks or more, not sure about that) till it's more convenient for me. in nearly all cases i have haggled a few more Satangs and then changed on the spot.

You must of requested the bank contact you before converting the funds at one time. I know it is allowed .....

Now that you have done it they seem to do it for you each time? Could also be they have never seen such large amounts

as when a Klingon needs some pocket change

[Naam]

i did not "of" request anything Flying. they do it since i bank in Thailand. but i was told they only call when the transfer value is $20k or more. if that is the case they also ask whether they should issue some "tor mor kor nor por" or whatever nonsensical name that certificate is called and want me to specify the reason why because that's mandatory.

i always say "acquiring additional mia noi" and get a good laugh at the other end. after that we settle on "personal expenses".

[Naam]

Not sure if there are any drawbacks to the foreign currency account transfers. Anyway, that is perhaps for next time.

Yes, additional fees for foreign currency accounts. Unless you need "dollars" for use in Thailand just be sure the 3d party/Sending bank does not convert the dollars to baht before sending...you'll lose out in that deal...but you leave the Sending bank smiling in the nice little profit they made off you...just let the in-Thailand bank do the currency conversion.

it's not always the case that one loses transferring Baht to Thailand. in my case it does apply when i transfer from Europe. but when using my Singapore bank the chance is 50:50 that i am getting a better rate when buying and transferring Baht from there. of course i'm never sure unless the next day when i am able to compare the actual applicable domestic TT rate with the rate which was used buying THB the day before swifting.

[flying]

i did not "of" request anything Flying. they do it since i bank in Thailand. but i was told they only call when the transfer value is $20k or more. if that is the case they also ask whether they should issue some "tor mor kor nor por" or whatever nonsensical name that certificate is called and want me to specify the reason why because that's mandatory.

i always say "acquiring additional mia noi" and get a good laugh at the other end. after that we settle on "personal expenses".

Ah that could be it too....because I was told that they can call when I was checking recently about a large sum too.

So could be as you say a threshold amount....

[meand]

Thanks all. I boasted about reading the terms very "closely," yet it seems I didn't. The trial deposits were not a requirement as I thought they were. I also agree with the poster that said move on.

I would actually think about transferring to a different account next time, one in which you could deposit US dollars in. My main concern is I lost a bunch just by the incidental fact that the money arrived on the worst possible day (the 29th). It seems if you had the money transferred in dollars (Bangkok Bank has this option if you open a foreign currency account), then it may be the best of both worlds?? Not sure if there are any drawbacks to the foreign currency account transfers. Anyway, that is perhaps for next time. Thanks all.

any transfers of mine from abroad are routed through Bangkok Bank even though i am not their client but bank with Siam Commercial. but every time i make a transfer i am getting a phone call from Bangkok Bank asking me whether i accept an offered exchange rate of xyz or wait (up to two weeks or more, not sure about that) till it's more convenient for me. in nearly all cases i have haggled a few more Satangs and then changed on the spot.

I would have killed for that option, that is exactly the type of thing i'll be looking for if I do it again. The way it was handled, it just went in, no calls, no nothing. Anyway, live and learn.

Edited March 10, 2012 by meand

[IAMHERE]

I believe the Bangkok Bank will keep your money several days before they place it into your account. You will get whatever the worst rate was during those several days. It seems that is they way I get my deposits from my USA accounts using ACH method from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank in New York.

[meand]

I believe the Bangkok Bank will keep your money several days before they place it into your account. You will get whatever the worst rate was during those several days. It seems that is they way I get my deposits from my USA accounts using ACH method from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank in New York.

This makes sense. The "problem" was, we never got a call, and we checked the account at atms and it wasn't in there. Anyway.... i'm going to head in and talk to somebody, i'm not really happy the way it went down.

[Pib]

I believe the Bangkok Bank will keep your money several days before they place it into your account. You will get whatever the worst rate was during those several days. It seems that is they way I get my deposits from my USA accounts using ACH method from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank in New York.

Now you know that the standard Bank of America ACH transfer time is 3 business days (a $3 fee), but you can pay a higher fee to get BoA to send the funds faster. I use to use BoA to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank (I've done many transfers over the years) and the funds were always posted to my Bangkok account 3 to 4 "business" days later. I figure BoA did the actual transmission on day 3 (they want to hold onto your money as long as they can unless you pay them a higher transfer fee), and depending on the time of the day they did the transfer which was probably close of business of day 3 the money was in my Bangkok Bank account the next business day, either late morning or early afternoon...and I would immediately get a SMS notice the funds had posted to include the dollar amount received and exchange rate provided...all my exchange rates were the Update 1/opening exchange rate of the day. Now if weekends and U.S. or Thai holidays occur during this 3 business day transfer that can extend the time before the funds arrive/will post to your Bangkok Bank account. I really expect most of your transfer time was awaiting BoA actual transmission of the funds if using their stardard 3 business day ACH transfer. Also keep in mind that exchange rates vary throughout the business day due to the FX market...Bangkok Bank usually has 2 to 3 updates per business day...sometimes only 1 if the FX market is stable...sometime 4-6 if the FX market is having a crazy day.

[Daveroc]

Thank you Pib for outlining the process of the transfer of funds from overseas to Thailand.

Over ther time i have particiapted in this forum there have been a number of allegations that the Banks hold the funds in Thailand to gain a few more satang profit out of the transaction. On each occassion I have investigated a transaction on behalf of a poster, it has mostly been found that incorrect information was supplied by the remitter which prevented the Bank from crediting the account, there were public holidays at one end of the transaction or the funds were not sent from overseas on the day the receiver of the funds thought they had been.

Almost without exception, whenever someone claims to have experienced undue delays, numerous posters respond with their experience stating the exact opposite

Claiming also that the Banks sit and wait for the worst rate to apply to the transaction is also showing a lack of understanding on commercial reality. The bank does not make a profit until they convert the transaction. Given that the bank appies a commission percentage to the amount of baht received, it is actually in the banks interests to get as much baht for the customer that they can.

However i will again place the offer to investigate the timeline of any transaction through Bangkok Bank where a poster believes they have been hard done by .

Dave

Edited March 12, 2012 by Daveroc

[meand]

Thank you Pib for outlining the process of the transfer of funds from overseas to Thailand.

Over ther time i have particiapted in this forum there have been a number of allegations that the Banks hold the funds in Thailand to gain a few more satang profit out of the transaction. On each occassion I have investigated a transaction on behalf of a poster, it has mostly been found that incorrect information was supplied by the remitter which prevented the Bank from crediting the account, there were public holidays at one end of the transaction or the funds were not sent from overseas on the day the receiver of the funds thought they had been.

Almost without exception, whenever someone claims to have experienced undue delays, numerous posters respond with their experience stating the exact opposite

Claiming also that the Banks sit and wait for the worst rate to apply to the transaction is also showing a lack of understanding on commercial reality. The bank does not make a profit until they convert the transaction. Given that the bank appies a commission percentage to the amount of baht received, it is actually in the banks interests to get as much baht for the customer that they can.

However i will again place the offer to investigate the timeline of any transaction through Bangkok Bank where a poster believes they have been hard done by .

Dave

I went in to the main branch on Silom today (got your PM too late). Everyone was very helpful, and the level of English in there is far above anywhere I have been. Very impressive, a classy operation in every way. In the end, it turned out this was all my fault via not updating the phone number on the account. They tried to call, couldn't get a hold of me, and made the conversion.

The only thing I'd mention about Dave's post above, which I find to be very accurate, is that if you transfer a large amount, it really isn't in the bank's best interest to get you the best rate, because their rate maxes out at 500 baht. If I understood what you said correctly anyway. But that is a small detail, thanks again to all for all the help.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank foreign currency receipt/exchange fee via SWIFT/ACH/wire/etc., is 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max). And the way it appears they apply this fee is "after" they do the conversion...then they substract the fee...then they post the remaining amount to your account. So, lets say you ACH $20K...since you are doing the ACH via the Bkk Bk NY branch they slice off a $10 fee on the way to the in-Thailand Bkk Bk branch. This means $19,990 is received and converted at the TT Buying Rate of the moment at the in-Thailand Bkk Bk.. Let's say it's 30 baht to the dollar. 30 times 19,990 equals 599,700 baht.

Now, the bank applies its 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee. 0.25% of 599,700 is 1,499.25 baht...well over the 500 baht max fee. So, 500 baht gets deducted from the 599,700 to leave 599,200 to be posted to your account. And whether the exchange rate had been 29 or 31 baht the fee on $19,900 would have still been way over the max fee of 500 baht meaning a 500 baht fee would still have been applied.

And if you send over a much smaller amount say $1000, then Bkk Bk NY slices off only $5 on its way to Thailand....$995 arrives and is converted. 30 times 995 is 29,850 baht...0.25% is 74.63 baht which is below the min 200 baht fee so a 200 baht fee is applied leaving 29,650 to be posted to your account.

If doing a SWIFT transfer then above mentioned $10 or $5 Bkk Bk NY fees would not apply...your full transfer amount should arrive Thailand depending on how your Sending bank and any intermediary bank it uses apply their SWIFT fees. SWIFT fees are just pricey. But once the funds you SWIFTed over arrive Thailand the same 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht min) currency receipt/conversion fee applies.

And even if the amount sent over falls within the 200 to 500 baht limits, say a fee of 302 baht, I just can't see a Thai bank holding/waiting a few hours or a few days to exchange the funds "in hopes" the exchange rate may go up a little and they get let's say a 305 baht fee...the chances of the exchange rate going down is probably greater the way the dollar has been slowly declining againt the baht over the years which would mean a lower fee for the bank.

It's my humble opinion when funds don't arrive/get posted promptly there is a problem like you encountered, the sending bank was tardy in sending it, or arrival and posting got delayed due to home country and/or Thai holidays.