UK pensions

[robertthebruce]

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

British expat pensioners in Spain, healthcare costs are covered by the UK via S1 certificate

 

 

Spain is looking attractive .......

 

[Oxx]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

7 minutes ago, rak sa_ngop said:

If 100,000 pensioners were to return to the UK from non EU countries it could cost the NHS 700 million pounds in extra health costs.

This figure is based on something I read a few years ago i.e. the average cost of NHS health provisions for retirees is about 7,000 GBP a year, if I remembered correctly.

The govt should be paying retirees extra pension money to retire overseas and cover their own health costs!!!!!

Instead they are doing the opposite.

British expat pensioners in Spain, healthcare costs are covered by the UK via S1 certificate

 

Last time I checked Spain was not a non-EU country.

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

Last time I checked Spain was not a non-EU country.

Yeh my error.

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

But the government doesn't care about the cost.  If it did it would close the loophole whereby Latvians and Estonians (for example) can fly into the UK for one day, get an EHIC card, and then get free (or heavily subsidised) medical treatment back in their home countries, the UK taxpayer picking up the bill.

For an UK EHIC, is not a requirement to be ordinarily resident and hold a NIC number.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, robertthebruce said:

 

 

Spain is looking attractive .......

 

 

Not to me.

 

I am here.

 

My family is here.

 

I love my family and even most of the extended bits.

 

My home is here.

 

No contest.

[nong38]

It looks like there is a lot pension activity on Wednesday in the House of Commons so tune in on Thursday and see whats transpired.

[thai3]

They will just continue to upgrade the EU pensioners and leave the rest as it is

[i claudius]

58 minutes ago, thai3 said:

They will just continue to upgrade the EU pensioners and leave the rest as it is

Oh us of little faith ,555

[thai3]

we need better people than comrade Corbyn and Vazeline in our corner, those two are just laughed at

[Expattaff1308]

29 minutes ago, thai3 said:

we need better people than comrade Corbyn and Vazeline in our corner, those two are just laughed at

Exactly...We all remember Steve Webb.....

Words are Cheap! If you remember Steve Webb spoke at least on 4 separate occasions in the HOC condemning this injustice, then he became part of the coalition government and became Pensions Minister an ideal position you would think to do something about it...but did he...NO, saying this is how it has been for many years and things are not going to change now...so Mr Corbyn and the Labour Party, forgive me if I don't hold my breath!!

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Exactly...We all remember Steve Webb.....

Words are Cheap! If you remember Steve Webb spoke at least on 4 separate occasions in the HOC condemning this injustice, then he became part of the coalition government and became Pensions Minister an ideal position you would think to do something about it...but did he...NO, saying this is how it has been for many years and things are not going to change now...so Mr Corbyn and the Labour Party, forgive me if I don't hold my breath!!

Unfortunately, the reason why Webb abandoned us is the same as that which will prevail again - the Treasury won't find the money. As 'Spreadsheet Phil'  has left a £2bn hole in his budget through having to climb down over NIC contributions, he is very unlikely to be handing out increases anywhere else.

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, thai3 said:

They will just continue to upgrade the EU pensioners and leave the rest as it is

Blowing a hole in their 'no new agreements since 1981' & leaving them wide open to renewed legal challenge which will only fail if HMG continue to deceive Sun readers into thinking we are;

 

a) Living the life o' Reilly (stock photos showing 'Mr & Mrs Golden wedding' in idyllic surroundings every time our plight is mentioned in the media) &

 

b  ) Somehow plundering 'their' (!) taxes while having no entitlement or contribution records in our own right 

 

Joe Public can be pretty dense at times. It's in our interests to ensure HMG no longer exploit that stupidity at our expense...

 

 

[rockingrobin]

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Blowing a hole in their 'no new agreements since 1981' & leaving them wide open to renewed legal challenge which will only fail if HMG continue to deceive Sun readers into thinking we are;

 

a) Living the life o' Reilly (stock photos showing 'Mr & Mrs Golden wedding' in idyllic surroundings every time our plight is mentioned in the media) &

 

b  ) Somehow plundering 'their' (!) taxes while having no entitlement or contribution records in our own right 

 

Joe Public can be pretty dense at times. It's in our interests to ensure HMG no longer exploit that stupidity at our expense...

 

 

If the UK comes to an agreement to maintain the uprating of pensions in the EU , I do not see how this helps a legal challenge.It would be an extension of current policy and the fact that the last agreement was made in 1981 is moot.

[evadgib]

45 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

If the UK comes to an agreement to maintain the uprating of pensions in the EU , I do not see how this helps a legal challenge.It would be an extension of current policy and the fact that the last agreement was made in 1981 is moot.

It won't be one it'll be 27, and with sovereignty about to be returned to British Courts it is entirely right that the Carson ruling be challenged or a new one launched if they're stupid enough to present good reason.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/783935/Repeal-Bill-axe-EU-laws-next-week-week-Article-50

Edited March 26, 2017 by evadgib

[rockingrobin]

57 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It won't be one it'll be 27, and with sovereignty about to be returned to British Courts it is entirely right that the Carson ruling be challenged or a new one launched if they're stupid enough to present good reason.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/783935/Repeal-Bill-axe-EU-laws-next-week-week-Article-50

The number of agreements is irrelevant, there will be no material change as to when it arrived at the UK courts last  time.

The Carson case was judged on UK law 

[evadgib]

Of course there will. 1981/Carson will be null and void the moment they move their own goalposts.

Edited March 26, 2017 by evadgib

[rockingrobin]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

Of course there will. 1981/Carson will be null and void the moment they move their own goalposts.

Apologies, I dont follow.

Maybe you can explain  how making an agreement to uprate pensions in  the EU will null/void the Carson judgement . The ruling addressed  reciprocal agreements and concluded that it is for the UK to decide which countries it enters into agreements with, but it is illogical to say that these should operate worldwide  irrespective of the UKs wishes.

[i claudius]

20 hours ago, thai3 said:

we need better people than comrade Corbyn and Vazeline in our corner, those two are just laughed at

Now if only they could get Diane Abbott on board as well , or Noddy and Big ears .lol

[nong38]

The reciprocal arrangements are a red herring. This something the Government can choose or not choose to do, to enter into an arrange with another country. The important part of the argument takes place in Clause 20 of the Pensions Bill, this is the part which needs to be changed and all that needs to be changed to change the rate for people with "frozen pensions". It appears that every year there is a chance to do this but it is ignored or goes through a nod to leave the things the way they currently are, this is the part that Jeremy Corbyn is likely to challenge this week.

There is a lot Pension talk on the agenda from Damian Green on Wednesday so this look s where the action is going to be. If all the Labour votes, SNP, DUP etc vote for a change and some Conservatives for for change then there is a chance  which is better than no chance.

It would seem that if the case is won the annual increases would only apply to current pension levels from now on, everyone will be up rated to the current level, in which case the amount needed each year would be relatively small to implement.

[evadgib]

Corbyn mentioned the freeze this afternoon but only in the context of post Brexit Brits in the EU 

Edited March 29, 2017 by evadgib

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

42 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Corbyn mentioned the freeze this afternoon but only in the context of post Brexit Brits in the EU 

If the last few months are anything to go by, UK politicians and the media will devote almost all of their time, energy and effort to Brexit and that will continue for the next couple of years.

Getting any airing for other important issues will become a near impossibility and non EU frozen ex pat pensions will go right to the back of the queue.

In these circumstances the support of Jeremy Corbyn and the current Labour leadership will surely give it the kiss of death. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[evadgib]

HMG should try to slip us in unnoticed if they continue to update Brits in EU post Brexit. I can't really see any other way of handling it.

 

(fingers crossed!)

[nong38]

So just a lot of hot wind then, what a surprise and now we know why Labour will not be in power for the foreseeable future.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

52 minutes ago, evadgib said:

HMG should try to slip us in unnoticed if they continue to update Brits in EU post Brexit. I can't really see any other way of handling it.

 

(fingers crossed!)

If there's a will there's a way ! The problem is that there probably isn't a will. One thing I have learned about UK culture is that there are a huge number of people who are motivated by jealousy. Pensioners who have retired abroad are perceived as more  affluent than UK pensioners and those who enjoy the benefit of retirement in hot countries are especially resented. Add to this the widespread belief that ex pat pensioners pay no income tax and they already have a cluster of reasons for treating you with malice. Any mention of Thailand brings the familiar nods and winks about sex tourism and pedophilia.

One way to gauge what measure of support we have among the UK public is to follow the frozen pension issue  in the comments columns of articles on this subject in the UK press.  Many posters are blatantly hostile and jealous of ex pats retiring abroad and regularly assert that we don't pay any tax.

[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

If there's a will there's a way ! The problem is that there probably isn't a will. One thing I have learned about UK culture is that there are a huge number of people who are motivated by jealousy. Pensioners who have retired abroad are perceived as more  affluent than UK pensioners and those who enjoy the benefit of retirement in hot countries are especially resented. Add to this the widespread belief that ex pat pensioners pay no income tax and they already have a cluster of reasons for treating you with malice. Any mention of Thailand brings the familiar nods and winks about sex tourism and pedophilia.

One way to gauge what measure of support we have among the UK public is to follow the frozen pension issue  in the comments columns of articles on this subject in the UK press.  Many posters are blatantly hostile and jealous of ex pats retiring abroad and regularly assert that we don't pay any tax.

 Unfortunately what you say is very true. I have also noticed those comments in the UK media. 

 

[Oxx]

33 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Many posters are blatantly hostile and jealous of ex pats retiring abroad and regularly assert that we don't pay any tax.

 

But isn't the "no tax" thing largely true - at least for income tax and CGT?

 

Investment income for non-residents arising in the UK is only subject to tax deducted at source (which now is none).  There is no CGT for non-residents.  No Thai tax on UK income.

 

Expats can move their investments offshore to a tax-free environment - no tax in UK or Thailand.

 

I legally pay no income tax in Thailand since I generate very little income here.

 

In fact, the only UK tax I pay is VAT on my occasional return trips to the UK and the tax on flights.

 

And the only Thai tax I pay is the local VAT.

 

(This is, of course, not a justification for the UK's shoddy treatment of expat pensioners.)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Oxx

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

3 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

But isn't the "no tax" thing largely true - at least for income tax and CGT?

 

Investment income for non-residents arising in the UK is only subject to tax deducted at source (which now is none).  There is no CGT for non-residents.  No Thai tax on UK income.

 

Expats can move their investments offshore to a tax-free environment - no tax in UK or Thailand.

 

I legally pay no income tax in Thailand since I generate very little income here.

 

In fact, the only UK tax I pay is VAT on my occasional return trips to the UK and the tax on flights.

 

And the only Thai tax I pay is the local VAT.

 

(This is, of course, not a justification for the UK's shoddy treatment of expat pensioners.)

If your pension income is less than £11000 a year then you don't pay income tax, either in the UK or Thailand.

Those with pensions taking them over this threshold pay income tax and the tax is deducted at source.

The income tax on UK pensions is deducted at source wherever in the world you reside.

Depending on your pension income you might even have tax deducted at source at the 40 or 45% rate.

Income tax is not normally deducted from the State Pension, however, the State Pensions uses up  a proportion of the allowance equal to its monetary value, thereby increasing the amount of tax on other pension income

[Oxx]

26 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

The income tax on UK pensions is deducted at source wherever in the world you reside.

 

Only those with tiny pension pots (less than say GBP 200,000) would sensibly have kept their pensions in the UK.  Others would do as I've done and transferred them offshore (QROPS).  Zero tax.  (Unfortunately, that opportunity has been closed in the last few days.)

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

4 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Only those with tiny pension pots (less than say GBP 200,000) would sensibly have kept their pensions in the UK.  Others would do as I've done and transferred them offshore (QROPS).  Zero tax.  (Unfortunately, that opportunity has been closed in the last few days.)

The opportunity to do this is still available to those who reside in the same country to which they transfer.

Money purchase ( DC) schemes are the most suitable for QROPS transfer.

There are now regulations preventing the transfer of public sector (DB) schemes.

If you have  a private sector DB pension you could potentially transfer to a QROPS. Personally I would not be comfortable transferring a huge amount of money to a pension provider regulated by laws and provisions I am not familiar with and in a language in which I am not fluent and finally to a country where I have no citizenship.  It might not cause any problem but what if it did !

Finally, this option of QROPS transfer is not available to those whose pensions are already crystallized.

 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

But isn't the "no tax" thing largely true - at least for income tax and CGT?

 

Investment income for non-residents arising in the UK is only subject to tax deducted at source (which now is none).  There is no CGT for non-residents.  No Thai tax on UK income.

 

Expats can move their investments offshore to a tax-free environment - no tax in UK or Thailand.

 

I legally pay no income tax in Thailand since I generate very little income here.

 

In fact, the only UK tax I pay is VAT on my occasional return trips to the UK and the tax on flights.

 

And the only Thai tax I pay is the local VAT.

 

(This is, of course, not a justification for the UK's shoddy treatment of expat pensioners.)

 

The no tax thing is only true if your UK income including your state pension is less than the tax free allowance that everybody gets.

 

If you were prudent enough to earn other pensions as I and many others did, then if the pensions are UK based you are taxed in exactly the same manner as anyone else in the UK who earns more than the tax threshold. I started paying income tax in the UK at my first job when I was aged 15 years and 2 months  and now at 72, 73 in May I am STILL paying income tax in the UK and most probably will until I die here in Thailand in many years time hopefully..

Edited March 30, 2017 by billd766
wrong punctuation