UK pensions

[nontabury]

20 minutes ago, nong38 said:

6 months in the UK would qualify you for the current level of pension as enjoyed in the UK, however, you must be careful using that flat address if others are living there. It is possible that they might just let the cat out of the bag unintentionally.

Just one day qualifies you. As I found out,when I used to return to the U.k for a short visit.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

I believe that six months in the UK each year constitutes UK residency in all respects.

more than 183 days to be exact

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

more than 183 days to be exact

 

 

I live in Thailand but I cannot get non-resident status because I have "too many ties to the UK".

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I live in Thailand but I cannot get non-resident status because I have "too many ties to the UK".

Do you mean non - resident or non - domicile?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Do you mean non - resident or non - domicile?

 

 

Non-resident..... tax status

[simoh1490]

28 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

more than 183 days to be exact

Under the new UK tax residency rules, if you spend 30 days or more in a home that you own in the UK you are considered tax resident for that year, the 183 day rule is only an absolute worst case scenario..

 

http://www.cambridgetax.co.uk/ctp/Tax_Residence_Rules.html

 

The stakes for me are a little higher than for most because my UK residency status also determines whether the US deducts non-refundable tax from my US SSc pension, in Thailand it costs me about GBP 150 per month on this tax which when added to the UK loss of uplift starts to make the number quite large - sadly the UK tax people notify the US tax people of my residency status and they share information actively.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by simoh1490

[superal]

9 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

If Corbyn ever got into power the pound would be so low ,even if we got an uprating we would still be worse off .

I was not trying to promote him as I am not a believer in his ways but the fact that he is a prominent figure and could pose Anne's campaign at prime ministers question time , which is a highly viewed event , can only help to bring the matter to the fore and public attention of this unjust discrimination .  The more exposure and debate the better ?  I for one would like to hear her defend the governments stand on this especially if quizzed by somebody like Jeremy Paxman .

[billzant]

This 6 month thing came up in a discussion with a friend in the UK. Is it on the pension application form for those UK citizens living in the UK? I filled in a different form as I am resident in Thailand.

[nong38]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I have mail forwarding to my sisters address.

If the authorities come calling and find you are not there and there is no evidence that you have been your sister could be charged with fraud, not your problem its hers just be aware things are not always simple as it appears.

[billd766]

I found this little gem on another website.

 

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01457

 

 

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I found this little gem on another website.

 

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01457

 

 

I extracted the following quote from the above document in order to dispel any belief in the argument that you would need a Reciprocal Social Security Agreement in order to unfreeze the pension increases: 

 

A DSS Memorandum to the Social Security Committee in 1996 explained the role of reciprocal social security agreements:

 

16. Reciprocal social security agreements are not entered into solely with a view to paying annual uprating increases to UK pensioners living abroad. They are not strictly necessary for that purpose as uprating can be achieved through UK domestic legislation…

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[simoh1490]

5 hours ago, nong38 said:

If the authorities come calling and find you are not there and there is no evidence that you have been your sister could be charged with fraud, not your problem its hers just be aware things are not always simple as it appears.

I never liked my sister anyway.

[bert bloggs]

13 hours ago, nong38 said:

If the authorities come calling and find you are not there and there is no evidence that you have been your sister could be charged with fraud, not your problem its hers just be aware things are not always simple as it appears.

Really all she would have to say is , dont know anything about pensions ,my brother just asked me to forward his mail . end of .

[LongTimeLurker]

20 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Under the new UK tax residency rules, if you spend 30 days or more in a home that you own in the UK you are considered tax resident for that year,

OK, didn't know that although it doesn't apply to me as I own nothing and haven't spent more than 30 days in UK in the last 30 years.

[nong38]

23 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Really all she would have to say is , dont know anything about pensions ,my brother just asked me to forward his mail . end of .

Its not as simple as that. He has given an address where he says he lives as far as the authorities are concerned, the sister knows he is not living there she is complicit in the fraud, if anyone thinks that's the end of it then that's the risk taken and the end of the line is in sight. The first person to be in trouble is the sister not the person who claims to live there, then she will be asked where are you forwarding to, now you can see where this going I expect, the pension will be suspended which will invite the pensioner to contact the DWP who will require new information for the payments to resume.

[KittenKong]

On 11/6/2018 at 6:23 PM, Jip99 said:

I live in Thailand but I cannot get non-resident status because I have "too many ties to the UK".

I'm surprised. The UK is actually quite generous when it comes to how it interprets whether you are resident or not. You really have to go some to be considered resident:

 

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/statutory-residence-test/

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, nong38 said:

Its not as simple as that. He has given an address where he says he lives as far as the authorities are concerned, the sister knows he is not living there she is complicit in the fraud, if anyone thinks that's the end of it then that's the risk taken and the end of the line is in sight. The first person to be in trouble is the sister not the person who claims to live there, then she will be asked where are you forwarding to, now you can see where this going I expect, the pension will be suspended which will invite the pensioner to contact the DWP who will require new information for the payments to resume.

My sister doesn't forward my mail, she doesn't even open it unless asked to, she merely alerts me to the fact that I have mail from a specific source. virtually all of my correspondence is set up to be communicated by email, a letter actually addressed to me is a very rare thing, nevertheless, I set up mail forwarding so as not to bother the elderly lady who rents the flat.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I'm surprised. The UK is actually quite generous when it comes to how it interprets whether you are resident or not. You really have to go some to be considered resident:

 

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/statutory-residence-test/

As said earlier, 30 days spent in a UK property that you own makes you tax resident.

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I'm surprised. The UK is actually quite generous when it comes to how it interprets whether you are resident or not. You really have to go some to be considered resident:

 

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/statutory-residence-test/

 

I was told that it was the “ties”.....

 

I have a few company directorships and shareholding’s.

[pastprime]

11 hours ago, nong38 said:

Its not as simple as that. He has given an address where he says he lives as far as the authorities are concerned, the sister knows he is not living there she is complicit in the fraud, if anyone thinks that's the end of it then that's the risk taken and the end of the line is in sight. The first person to be in trouble is the sister not the person who claims to live there, then she will be asked where are you forwarding to, now you can see where this going I expect, the pension will be suspended which will invite the pensioner to contact the DWP who will require new information for the payments to resume.

The simplicity of it is nobody will come knocking,the only correspondence received will be the yearly increase letter,that in itself can be ripped up/ignored.It is that if returned would cause problems,but then again a postal forwarding address in Spain ,anywhere in the EU ,PH,will avail any problem  A UK address is preferable though as renewable driving licence can only be achieved with UK address....gov.uk

[nong38]

1 hour ago, pastprime said:

The simplicity of it is nobody will come knocking,the only correspondence received will be the yearly increase letter,that in itself can be ripped up/ignored.It is that if returned would cause problems,but then again a postal forwarding address in Spain ,anywhere in the EU ,PH,will avail any problem  A UK address is preferable though as renewable driving licence can only be achieved with UK address....gov.uk

There seem to be a few people who seem to think they have cracked the system and the future is secured, you maybe right but that's the chance you take, whatever address you choose in the UK and the owner of that address is at risk, not you, someone else and you put that person at risk, if you are comfortable with that that's fine. Getting a UK driving licence costs nothing, its free, breaking the law in addition by claiming to live where you don't to claim benefits to which by law you are not entitled comes at a cost if caught for you and anyone else who has aided you. You may not like what I am saying, you may think it will not happen but the ways of surveillance are increasing you need to be very careful and hope nobody makes a call.

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

As said earlier, 30 days spent in a UK property that you own makes you tax resident.

Indeed, and that figures in the link I provided. However the person I was asking mentioned "ties".

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

I was told that it was the “ties”.....

I have a few company directorships and shareholding’s.

I have lots of UK shareholdings (but no directorships). I am not considered even remotely resident in the UK.

[Jip99]

14 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I have lots of UK shareholdings (but no directorships). I am not considered even remotely resident in the UK.

 

I think that you have correctly identified the difference between us. ????

[pastprime]

8 hours ago, nong38 said:

There seem to be a few people who seem to think they have cracked the system and the future is secured, you maybe right but that's the chance you take, whatever address you choose in the UK and the owner of that address is at risk, not you, someone else and you put that person at risk, if you are comfortable with that that's fine. Getting a UK driving licence costs nothing, its free, breaking the law in addition by claiming to live where you don't to claim benefits to which by law you are not entitled comes at a cost if caught for you and anyone else who has aided you. You may not like what I am saying, you may think it will not happen but the ways of surveillance are increasing you need to be very careful and hope nobody makes a call.

Cannot agree.All i suggest  is you do what you want,Ill do the same,and as you state 'a few people' ,quite the opposite I should state

  However I assure you I am more than happy with my own personal circumstance,along with others,and am not expanding this matter further,as I am undoubtedly sure you will obviously will,until the cows come home,falling on deaf ears     can quote 'law' and spend 40 or 50 quid ,do a freedom of information request under whatever title you want to ascertain if any prosecutions have ever been undertaken as to what you suggest,...save yourself 40 to 50 quid...nothing,anyway keep the cows coming home

Edited November 9, 2018 by pastprime
sp

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

I think that you have correctly identified the difference between us.

I dont see how being a director, even of multiple companies, could affect your residency unless you actually attend meetings in the UK often. Physical presence always seems to be the overriding factor in the residency calculations. For example, I pass the statutory test simply because I only go to the UK once a year for a week.

[sandyf]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:50 PM, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

I extracted the following quote from the above document in order to dispel any belief in the argument that you would need a Reciprocal Social Security Agreement in order to unfreeze the pension increases: 

 

A DSS Memorandum to the Social Security Committee in 1996 explained the role of reciprocal social security agreements:

 

16. Reciprocal social security agreements are not entered into solely with a view to paying annual uprating increases to UK pensioners living abroad. They are not strictly necessary for that purpose as uprating can be achieved through UK domestic legislation…

" you would need a Reciprocal Social Security Agreement in order to unfreeze the pension increases: "

I cannot remember that ever being said, the current law requires that a reciprocal agreement is in place but general point is perfectly valid and there is no reason why the requirement cannot be removed.

If I remember right the opportunity to remove the disqualification was available when the NI law went before parliament in 1946, but it was ignored.

The text relating to the uprating is embedded in the Social Security Act which is a Statutory Instrument. This is an interesting comment on SI's from a brexit article, wonder how the one in question is treated.

 

The government has said between 800 and 1000 “statutory instruments” (SIs) will need to be passed before Britain leaves the EU.

SIs are used to amend existing laws and regulations, often without a full vote of parliament. Some automatically become law unless MPs or peers object, while others must be actively approved by the Commons and Lords. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-parliament-vote-law-changes-ministers-theresa-may-parliament-a8624336.html

[simoh1490]

17 hours ago, nong38 said:

There seem to be a few people who seem to think they have cracked the system and the future is secured, you maybe right but that's the chance you take, whatever address you choose in the UK and the owner of that address is at risk, not you, someone else and you put that person at risk, if you are comfortable with that that's fine. Getting a UK driving licence costs nothing, its free, breaking the law in addition by claiming to live where you don't to claim benefits to which by law you are not entitled comes at a cost if caught for you and anyone else who has aided you. You may not like what I am saying, you may think it will not happen but the ways of surveillance are increasing you need to be very careful and hope nobody makes a call.

TO be crystal....I am currently legally UK tax resident and also resident for any other purpose since I have spent six months there this year in total, that may well change next year and if it does I will make other changes as needed. To be honest, there is very little in it for me whether I am tax resident or not, increased pension payments versus disregarded income means I am only 1k Pounds PA worse off by not being UK resident.

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

" you would need a Reciprocal Social Security Agreement in order to unfreeze the pension increases: "

I cannot remember that ever being said, the current law requires that a reciprocal agreement is in place but general point is perfectly valid and there is no reason why the requirement cannot be removed.

If I remember right the opportunity to remove the disqualification was available when the NI law went before parliament in 1946, but it was ignored.

The text relating to the uprating is embedded in the Social Security Act which is a Statutory Instrument. This is an interesting comment on SI's from a brexit article, wonder how the one in question is treated.

 

The government has said between 800 and 1000 “statutory instruments” (SIs) will need to be passed before Britain leaves the EU.

SIs are used to amend existing laws and regulations, often without a full vote of parliament. Some automatically become law unless MPs or peers object, while others must be actively approved by the Commons and Lords. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-parliament-vote-law-changes-ministers-theresa-may-parliament-a8624336.html

The pensions uprating is a negative resolution , and is automatic unless objected .

 

[evadgib]

Last week, on Wednesday 31st October, we went to Westminster where over thirty MPs met with Mum to discuss the issue of frozen pensions. Many showed their support and signed a letter to the Prime Minister calling on her to end the policy.

Mum then went to Number 10 Downing Street to present the petition with all your signatures on it. She was invited inside to discuss frozen pensions with one of Theresa May’s own special advisers, and even had tea with him.

None of this would be possible without your support....

 

https://www.change.org/p/stop-denying-my-mum-and-520-000-brits-their-full-uk-pension/u/23571129?recruiter=37925645&utm_source=share_update&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=facebook&fbclid=IwAR24mWswGmO_rhQKs4EFJEr5tOW9I-sgAXoAGZ17nQWggka4tUj6ZPTzcaA